Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

@FishyS
I am 100% with you on the pizza, my friend.

While I agree that "Nintendo greed" arguments are heavily overblown---especially given the lack of microtransactions in (looks at Pokemon Champions) most of their games---the pricing of Mario Kart World at $80 did go above the trending price for AAA games of $70 and should probably be considered an act of corporate greed.

There is also the thing with Nintendo games never getting good sales, but I've heard it said that that comes down moreso due to a company culture thing of "Nintendo games are of a higher standard and because of that don't get discounted," and while I remain skeptical of that, I would not be surprised if that is true, because there does come a point where it is significantly more economical to slash the price of non-evergreen titles.

@kkslider5552000
First of all, I apologize if my comment appeared to be singling you out when I said "as you are" as if I meant you specifically. I meant "you" in a general sense, everyone all the same (myself included). So if I offended by that I'm sorry. I honestly wasn't trying to single you out, though I see how it may come across that way given my post was in response to your prior statement.

It also wasn't meant to be that serious either. It was said in a spirit of jest even though the underlying assertion was my true belief. Sometimes text on a page loses the nuance of how it would come across in person. It's obvious to me now you feel I was attacking and even insulting you specifically, and I'm sorry for that. I wasn't even thinking of you when writing that. Sometimes a person will make a post which inspires me to address the topic they mentioned at large, but not necessarily to them specifically, even if one or two select parts may.

Having cleared that all up, making a distinction about middle class buyer greed vs that of upper class sellers is fair, and I won't dispute your point on that because, well, you're not wrong and it's a reasonable observation. However, I do think it can be abused to justify greed. Such as, "Ya, but my greed is ok because I'm not rich".

We're talking about spending excess money on a luxury hobby that provides neither food, clothing or shelter. It's pure indulgence- something that 99.9% of humans who ever walked the earth could never even dream of partaking in.

Of course! Name one person whose greed is not guardrailed by a list of noble endeavors explaining why it's honorable and justified.

Of course! Name one person on the receiving end of another's greed who doesn't systematically accuse every last action as being greedy, yes, but more than that, downright abhorrent. They dig for anything and everything that can be used to portray them as not just greedy, but morally reprehensible.

"I could be stealing knowing I could get away with it if I really wanted, but I choose not to, clearly demonstrating I'm not greedy". That's not really your argument, is it? I think it's commendable you choose not to steal in this scenario. Tip of the hat to you, and everyone else who is honorable enough do what is right even when nobody is looking.

But I neither assumed you would do so, nor accused you would if given the opportunity. You assumed that's what I assumed, sweetie 😉

All I'm saying is, sellers naturally want to sell for as high of a price as possible, and buyers naturally want to buy for as low of a price as possible. Both are greed, regardless of how one dresses it up or justifies it on their end. Everyone has their own self-interest. Everyone is greedy. Sellers greed results in wanting to charge as much as buyers will pay. Buyers greed results in wanting to pay as little as sellers will charge. But I only ever hear about the big bad wolf of seller greed, while the buyer's greed is consistently justified, ignored or swept under the rug.

We're all greedy, sellers and buyers alike. That's all I'm saying. I'm not disagreeing with you as much as you may think I am, which will be made more clear in my following post.

I am pretty sure a big part of the internal philosophy at Nintendo is basically the question "Do you actually think the game is not worth the money? Or are you simply wagering that you can get it cheaper later?" With Nintendo being confident enough ( and not running on loans and fever dreams enough ) that they are willing to actually call bluffs, and allow people to walk away from the table. Versus most AAA publishers who are desperate for the sale, and consider any person not-buying their game to be a personal failure.

@JaxonH

I would actually sum it up as "the term Greed is overused". Desire on its own is not, and should not be, treated as some intrinsic evil. We all have things we want, and that is perfectly fair. Desire only becomes Greed when that Desire is accompanied by a failure of morality, best measured by "Causing harm to others or self". Its not the want of money that makes it evil, its when you hurt other people ( or yourself! ) to get that money. And no, "the other person not having as much money afterwards" is not an intrinsic harm, because they have that less money because they traded it for something they value as much or moreso. There would need to be force, fraud, or coercion.

( And yes, I am serious about the "self" part. If your desire for money leads you to do things that harm yourself, than you are quite literally a victim of greed, your own greed. And if you desire a luxury item, that costs more than you can safely afford, and choose to buy it nonetheless doing yourself harm? You are the victim of greed. . . your own greed, not that of the person selling it.)

@rallydefault
I think we're all chill, I just misworded my prior post in such a way the honorable kkslider mistook it as an intentional, personal slight. It happens.

I don't mind people pointing out the excess of greed by many companies, Nintendo included. In fact I think Nintendo has not once, not twice but thrice overstepped the line to the extent I would personally say their greed got the better of their judgement.

The first is with the NS1 announcement when they revealed Joycon to be $80 for a pair, Pro Controller to be $70, Charge Grip to be $30, and dock to be $90. That felt insulting, though I did feel the $300 console was a bargain price.

The second was with the NS2 announcement when they revealed Joycon 2 to be $100 for a pair, Pro Controller to be $90, Charge Grip to be $40 (at least it added GL/GR rear buttons), and dock to be $125. Granted, the original MSRPs were lower when first announced, but the tarrifs resulted in an increase before the system launched, followed by yet another increase in August. Even so, they still wanted Joycon 2 for $90, Pro Controller for $80, Charge Grip for $35, and Dock for $110.

The third was with the announcement of certain amiibo. I'm not going to reference 3rd party amiibo such as Capcom's line since they no doubt had a say in MSRP and profits had to be split between the two companies. Furthermore, the Gamestop exclusivity of many of them added yet another $10 surcharge as we saw with the Monster Hunter Rise, Monster Hunter Rise Sunbreak, Monster Hunter Stories 2, Monster Hunter Stories 3, Pragmata, and a number of others from back in the Wii U and Switch era.

But when I saw Kirby Air Riders amiibo for $50 each I almost thought it was, how do they say, an "out of season April Fools joke". FIFTY FREAKING DOLLARS for a single amiibo... are you kidding me?!! Yes, I know they're larger and modular but I don't care- that's absurd! And $40 for the 2 Mario Galaxy amiibo and $40 for the Metroid Vi-O-La amiibo?!! I remember when I started collecting and they cost $12.99. An appropriate... nay, dare I say generous price point!

So I'm not one to pretend greed should never be pointed out in all its excess, wanton desire. Far be it. Let it be known, there is absolutely excess greed that goes well above and beyond the basic laws of the invisible hand of free market economics and price discovery.

@JaxonH On amiibo, while maybe it will be better on around 40 bucks price point--I think on some levels the 13 bucks is also... they are too cheap situation? Like, I heard the quality is absolutely awful. And Kirby's ones looks super MASSIVE (and modularity always add extra price) and high quality. I saw review and it also looks amazing XD

and seeing the meta knight one is also pretty amazing... But yeah, I think nintendo is really aiming for higher quality releases now, as well as probably sakurai pushing for it (?) not sure, but admittedly found it very weird that kirby got it all :v but yea, the details look awesome and it just looks snazzy enough, I love them.... if only the import tax over here isn't insane...

The thing about Mario Kart World being $80, it £70 over here, is that's also not swinging away from the norm. Most triple AAA releases, even Sony and Xbox ones now, launch with an $80, $90 or god forbid more (£80, £90, £120) edition that's "three days early access", or as we call it "the release date". And if you want it at a reduced price, you've gotta wait for a later release date after launch.

Amiibo got a bump in quality AND price once Nintendo stopped trying to target the mainstream with them and shifted focus to Nintendo whales instead. The same people casually dropping $100 a pop on Mario alarm clocks and replica Virtual Boy units will happily spend a fraction of that on detailed Kirby Air Riders statues.

And that's fine by me if it means keeping their consoles a reasonable price.

Yeah... Tbh after hearing all the good stuff of Alarmo, I actually am tempted to get it, but this is the one I can't really push for lol. It's neat though, the fact that the alarm will keep ringing if you stay on bed and so on. Also likes how there's just many small things added to it Neat stuff, maybe shouldn't be 100 bucks but as long as it's good...

(over here it's even 150 bucks after all the import cost haha :v I'll see if I can get it for cheaper down the line)

And to sum up the whole "excess greed" debate, we cannot ignore the elephant in the room... the PS5 price increases.

First, let us establish some basic statistics from which we can ground our assessments from. Let's list the prices of all new consoles over the last 15 years. Various storage sizes confuse matters so let us commit to the lowest storage models only.

LAUNCH MSRP

• $300 Wii U
• $400 PS4
• $300 PS4 Slim
• $400 PS4 Pro
• $500 X1 Kinect
• $500 X1X
• $300 X1S
• $250 X1S Digital
• $300 NS1 (now $350)
• $200 NS Lite (now $230)
• $350 NS OLED (now $400)
• $500 PS5 (now $650)
• $400 PS5 Digital (now $600)
• $700 PS5 Pro Digital (now $900)
• $500 XSX (now $650)
• $300 XSS Digital (now $400)
• $450 NS2

$391.18 Average Console Launch MSRP For All Consoles ($384.54 For Only Those Playing Physical Media Out Of The Box)

So $400 is the average base console MSRP. However, we must consider Switch Lite, XSS and recent inflation. I think $500 is the new standard MSRP playing physical media. So how does Sony sell a $700 digital-only base console? Simple. Make it seem like a bargain you can't pass up on.

STEP #1 Jack prices up to absolutely absurd levels. That $400 PS5 Digital model that normally would have dropped to $300 by now? Crank that puppy with a 50% markup. Oh, there's no price drop to $300, but rather an increase to $600!

STEP #2 That already insanely overpriced $700 PS5 Pro Digital console, which by all rights should have dropped to $550 by now? Jack that puppy up to NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS. Plus the disc drive if you're a physical gamer, so basically the first ever $1,000 video game console.

STEP #3 Now, when they pull that scarlet curtain back and reveal the PS6, they can stun and awe the masses with this incredible, benevolent MSRP of just $699.99! Oh Sony, how could you be so charitable! What a magnificent blessing bestowed upon us! Despite the $980 PS5 Pro, Sony once again proves themselves "For the players" with this unbelievably generous price!

That is the strategy. Jack the prices up to borderline rates of extortion, so that when they reveal their $800 base PS6 console deceitfully marketed as $700 (they just sell it piecemeal you must self-assemble to make it seem cheaper), it seems like an orange clearance sticker bargain by comparison.

It's so obvious what they're doing with this strategic approach to galvanize their customer base into not only accepting an $800 console, but actually defend it as the best deal ever bestowed upon the gamership. People wanna talk greed... let's talk about that. I'm very curious to see how IGN, Gamespot, PushSquare, VGC, Kotaku, etc. manage to pen articles explaining to us exactly why we should rush out and drop $800 on a new console where we can't even tell the difference from the one we already own.

It's not like the days of Wii to Wii U, or PS3 to PS4, or Switch to Switch 2, or even PS4 to PS5 (the least significant upgrade to date but nonetheless it was a worthwhile upgrade, particularly with regard to load times and stable framerates). There is only ONE generational leap left in video games that will be worthwhile, and that is when we make the jump from Switch 2 to Switch 3. It will be a similar jump as what we saw with PS4 to PS5- less impressive than from NS1 to NS2 or PS3 to PS4, but still a big enough advancement to be worthwhile. But after that, gaming is going to need to start focusing less on raw graphical advancement and more on everything else.

I was not going to spend $100 on Alarmo. Seemed to me to just be a $100 Nintendo themed alarm clock. But my family got me one for Christmas and I must say... I'm floored with the technology packed in this thing. It's absolutely incredible!

You can set it to push the big top button to kill the alarm, but it also has a motion sensor option where you "push" your hand toward it and the Nintendo character shrinks (mine is Pikmin), push again and it shrinks tinier, then push again to kill the alarm. It also has settings where if you fall back asleep on days its set for, and after X amount of time it detects no movement to get out of bed, the alarm goes off again. It actually has all kinds of neat motion based stuff like that. If you get out of bed it detects it and kills the alarm, but if within 1 hr it detects you getting back into bed, and then no movement, it'll go off again, protecting you from falling back asleep and missing work.

It has optional hourly chimes you can set between whatever active hours of the day you want. I choose 9am to 9pm with a Pikmin theme. So you hear Olimar plucking a Pikmin out of the ground as a "chime" however many times the hour of the day is. 3 plucks = 3:00pm.

It's so freaking cool. Definitely a luxury, not a necessity. Well, an alarm is a necessity but everyone has a phone- but I like a separate alarm in case I leave my phone off the wireless charger by accident and it dies over night, and since I don't have a cute half main coon kitty like my brother that head rams you at 5am like clockwork every morning, it's good to have a backup.

I actually really do recommend Alarmo, and before I got mine I never thought I'd say such a thing. Maybe not a "rush out and get one ASAP" thing but a good Christmas stocking stuffer.

@Haruki_NLI
While I'm no fan of MK World being $80 and I think Nintendo needlessly gave ammo against them for a game most paid $50 for anyways, your point is well taken. Practically every 3rd party AAA (and even AA nowadays) has $70, $80, $90, $100, even $150 versions. And many will say "Ya, but it still has a $70 version!", but it's an incomplete $70 version. Would be like Nintendo releasing MK World for $70 with 20 characters and carts missing, but for $80 Deluxe version you get the "deluxe content".

Again, not defending $80. I think it was unwise. But what bothers me isn't the price, it's the selective outrage and hypocrisy any time it's Nintendo. WWE 2K26 has a $150 version, and MTX in game, and isn't complete on cart, and doesn't update with free content.

Yet Mario Kart World with it's $80 price, all on cart, with free update content, and $50 alternative option, that's cause for WW3 online against Nintendo as if they're the axis of evil. It's why we can't have reasonable discussions of criticism with Nintendo because the majority of the internet is either PC or PS console warring fanboys who despise Nintendo.

I mean, Nintendo literally lowered their prices of digital games and what did the usual suspects do? The Luke Stevens, the YongYeas, even the GameXplains (cause they care more about clicks from controversy than reporting truth for a company they claim to love)? They make videos with headlines claiming "NINTENDO RAISING PRICES OF PHYSICAL GAMES VS DIGITAL"

Is it any wonder so many Nintendo fans start getting so defensive about criticisms when they're dealing with crap like that all day? Not to justify those who go full defense force- that just gives those people even more ammo to make us all look like childish fools. But I at least understand the mindset.

@JaxonH yeah!! I hear all the neat stuff and that makes me go omg djdjdjdk it just sounds super neat and lovely. If I can find it for cheaper, I will definitely want to get it

The issue is finding it for cheaper haha

@JaxonH
Or here's one: Maybe don't waste your time "trying to defend" Nintendo, the multi-billion dollar company that isn't going to evaporate over night because some people either have the "wrong" opinion or are being "mean" to them.
Maybe instead use that time and energy playing Nintendo games and slim down that illusive "giant backlog" that I've heard so many Nintendo fans use as cope whenever Nintendo hasn't announced anything worthwhile for months or even years.

@UpsideDownRowlet
Nayeth, my friend, nayeth. 80 dollars is pretty firmly in the AAA range these days. In fact, most AAA games have versions around 90 buckaroonies.

@NotASockPuppet
I don't disagree. Not really sure what you're getting at though.

I see a lot of people online devote their entire lives to defending Nintendo, and defending Sony, and defending Xbox, and defending PC. And when I see that, ya I very much agree with you. What a waste. Has nothing to do with them being a "multi-billion dollar corporation". Wouldn't make a spit of difference if they were homeless living in a cardboard box on the sidewalk. Getting so emotionally invested you devote your existence to defending anything, be it Nintendo, Chevrolet, #2 pencils, Kenneth Cole cologne or your 24 year old britches with holes in the waistband... I think it's silly and a waste.

That said.

I also see such statements used as a defense to shield against bogus accusations, and when someone who has no interest in defending "Nintendo" so much as they're interested in defending truth, often people will chime in with "why defend XYZ?" to which I would say, humans with integrity will always have an innate desire to debunk lies, expose weak, illegitimate accusations and take a stand for what is just.

I will defend Nintendo if I see some console warring keyboard warrior making unwarranted, childish arguments against them just as much as I'll defend a brand of coffee I like if I see some ignoramus making unfounded and hypocritical insults toward them.

Whether they're billionaires or indigent, whether they're a corporation or a random individual on a forum, if I see a demonstrably false or hypocritical statement I will never hesitate to expose hypocritics, trolls and those looking to stir the pot.

It's certainly not something I devote my life to, and I do spend far more time playing my games and backlog. But I won't let "they're a billion dollar corporation" be used as a shield to spew out unfounded nonsense unchallenged.

If I'm winding down and chatting on a forum, I'll call a spade a spade. Sometimes it's criticizing Nintendo (a multibillion dollar corporation), other times it's defending them (a multibillion dollar corporation) from bogus, unfounded accusations. Sometimes I'll criticize a random weirdo on this site (broke bums who could only dream of a billion dollars), other times I'll defend random strangers on this site (also likely could only ever dream of a billion dollars).

Point is, how much money one has is completely irrelevant to an argument of truth vs lies. Acting as if because an entity is worth X amount of money that somehow justifies weirdos with a free pass to be hypocrits with double standards, is a strange take indeed.

I call BS where I see it. In the end it's not an attempt to "defend Nintendo" or "defend Sony" or "defend anyone", it's an attempt to defend truth and integrity. If that that just so happens to work in Nintendo's favor, so be it. That's just how the cards fall.

Eh, say what you will about Nintendo's pricing, but I'm generally okay with it for several reasons:
1. Nintendo games are generally of quality and well worth the asking price.
2. Nintendo (for the most part) have avoided the more scummy monetisation strategies seen elsewhere in the industry, e.g. excessive microtransations, lootboxes, etc. They've also not jumped headfirst into things like NFTs or GenAI.
3. Unlike other AAA publishers, their approach allows them to take risks with more games, and they're one of the most prolific publishers of AA games in the modern day (although you could argue that they should be better at tiering the prices of their AAA vs. AA games).
4. They're seemingly one of the only AAA publishers/developers to have avoided mass layoffs - in fact, their employee retention is known to be quite high. When they've suffered in the past the CEO (Iwata) has taken the hit.

Basically, whatever they're doing seems to be working for them. I'd much rather they take my money than the majority of AAA publishers.

@JaxonH
Well, what I'm trying to say is that people have WAY too much time on their hands on both sides of the argument(s). And you are better off doing something that you enjoy, instead of doing something that absolutely nobody cares about (except low-level trolls trying to get a reaction out of overly sensitive people that take things that are really not important too seriously.)
You are not going to listen to their side, and they are certainly not going to hear your side.

This is all well and fine until people tell lies, to which people who don't know the truth can be easily led astray...

Like, big example is people who VERY happily said that game key card need you to connect to internet everytime you play the game, which is not true. This is just one example of course, and people can still hate on GKC on another reason, but like, hate it for the right reason, not for fake reason?

Sometimes an argument is less about the other sides, but people who are only reading the argument without joining. That's who the argument truly is for.