Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

@Lazz
But then again, we must keep in mind how much better 9-axis gyro (NS2) is than 6-axis (NS1) when it comes to gyro drift. And the higher polling rate on NS2 makes for smoother motion.

After watching this video, I'm reconsidering. I think I've been taking for granted how much better gyro is now.

@JaxonH yeah, I have it for the Switch. I’m just not sure it’s worth it with the current specs. I wouldn’t blame you if you hold off on the purchase

Just wow.

huh, I was reading this reddit review and it sounded good XD (not my thing but... well, just huh)

I mean… it’s a fun game. I’m really enjoying it. There’s lots of modes, and I haven’t even gone online yet.

I honestly don’t know what people want anymore. It’s like every game needs to be the best ever in not only its genre but in every single genre. Simultaneously.

Partially overly high expectations for anything Nintendo and partially price. Fundamentally, unless a game is truly insanely good, there are thousands of equally good or better games for significantly less than $70.

One can argue for ages about game prices; my only point in this case is that if it had been priced as a cheaper Nintendo game (say $50), the insane AAA expectations wouldn't have been there to the same extent.

@rallydefault Single player, the reviews are saying the game is bad for those who want to play solo. Meanwhile Mario Sports in the 2000s was very single player friendly.

@Grumblevolcano
Well, like I said, I’m playing it single-player and having a really good time. There’s lots to do.

If that’s not valid or whatever to you, then cool, but I’m in the fox hole telling you my story (and other modes) experience.

@FishyS
You are indeed right that we can debate game pricing forever, but at the end of the day I still hold that games are the best bang for your buck in entertainment. Everyone needs to do their own cost-per-hour analysis or whatever when it comes to making the purchase, but honestly, it has no place in the actual review of a game.

We’ve been over this many times. Cue the landslide lol

I agree with the best bang for your buck sentiment for games overall. For this particular game, it's more an issue of whether people think they are getting AAA content for AAA prices.

I mean... the two posts above were a YouTuber and some rando on Reddit, so I wasn't really talking about real reviews, just responding to your 'what people expect' comment. Real reviewers shouldn't review based on expectations, at least not primarily.

@FishyS
I didn't even click those lol

I'm saying the price of the game has no place in its review. (Nor should comparisons to other games, older games in the franchise, etc. But again, people get mad when I say those things. Rawr.)

If a reviewer wants to discuss price after the fact or make it a separate thing, have at it. But laboring the actual review under the shadow of the price? No bueno, in my opinion.

Plus, as discussed numerous times, price even for Nintendo games is not a static thing. If you don't want to pay 70 for this game, you have plenty of options to not, even at launch. I sure as heck didn't. Got it for 55 plus tax without much effort.

I'm also finding Mario Tennis Fever to be very fun. Better than Aces, and anyone who's been here for a while knows I've always contended Aces was the best Mario sports game on Switch. It had trickle content updates, but once those concluded it was a very nice package.

Fever doesn't feel so intimidating by comparison, which may be part of why I enjoy it more (that and Fever Rackets are just a really fun core mechanic). It still has the 3 basic shot types, all of which can be double tapped to augment the shot, not to mention Lobs and Drop Shots which can be mapped to ZL/ZR (I prefer that rather than sequential button presses like B+A which can be confusing in the midst of a heated match).

I get the Adventure Mode could have been more, but at the same time I feel like some expect the Adventure Mode to be the entire game- a full fledged Mario RPG adventure. And it's like... no. It's just one of half a dozen modes, not including local wireless, online, ranked, GameShare, etc. There's actually a ton of single player content above and beyond just the Adventure Mode.

I compare Mario Tennis Fever to say... Kirby Air Riders and I gotta be honest. It's way better. I'm sorry Kirby Air Riders fans, I don't mean to dunk on your game- I know many people enjoy it. But to me? I think Mario Tennis Fever is superior in nearly every respect, save perhaps with respect to the Top Ride mode which I think was the most surprising and fun addition.

I remember Tennis World Tour for Switch, and Mario Tennis Fever puts it to shame. I'm not saying it's a perfect game- sure, the Adventure Mode could have been better. And I would have liked "cups" similar to Mario Kart where you strive to get 3 stars, perhaps for the Tower Mode. But as a full package there's a lot of content and the core gameplay is just so well done.

@Jhena
Idk why anyone cares about whether little 2 second pose animations of a Mario sports game are different than the last. It's not like Koopaling shaking a racket rather than holding it high is gonna have an impact on the fun/enjoyment of the game. Nor would anyone even know or care were it not pointed out in a side by side. I would expect things like this to be the same, because making a new pose animation adds nothing of value. And given the last game was half a decade ago, who even remembers anyways.

Just seems like another one of those things used to criticize even though it doesn't really negatively impact enjoyment. Though I suppose if such a thing bothers someone and they want to not play the game as a result, I reserve no judgement. You do you, as I always say.

@FishyS
Ya, at $70 it's only natural people will have high standards. It is, after all, getting quite expensive to buy new games nowadays. On the other hand, $70 has been standard now over half a decade, with $80 and $100 editions more normal than not. WWE 2K now sells the full experience for $150. You're basically buying half the game for $70. Digimon full game is $110. The Trails games are $70 then have hundreds of dollars of DLC, while the Monster Hunter series are $70 with $50 expansion and hundreds of dollars of DLC.

So to me at least, getting a full game with no pricier editions or DLC for $70 good for single player or multiplayer via local wireless with GameShare and online, that's fun to its core, has almost non-existant load times and, at least for those who care about this- is fully on cart (ppl claim they'd pay more for on-cart- well ok, then view this as a $60 game where you're paying an extra $10 for the high speed 64GB catridge), doesn't seem all that bad.

Now. I know not every game will be that way. But for Mario Tennis Fever specifically, it feels like a good buy. At the end of the day though, I think that boils down to the fact I just find it really fun to play. That's always what it comes down to in the end for me. Kirby Air Riders had no more content than Mario Tennis Fever, and yet, I found that game just wasn't all that fun.

As someone who has been a Nintendo-console-only gamer for quite awhile, I have so far bought precisely 2 $70 games in my life. And one of those was Bananza. Of games from this year, I got Final Fantasy 7R which has MSRP $50. Even if $70 has been common in some corner of the gaming world, it hasn't been for Nintendo fans and the first 2 $70 Nintendo games were TotK and Bananza which sets the bar for quality extremely high. I'm not arguing about inflation, development costs etc, just the price to quality Nintendo fans have been used to. Which might make their expectations a bit skewed.

Regardless, glad you are enjoying the game.

@JaxonH
You do not care. Okay. I am glad, that you bought it. I can understand why people want something new, when they buy a new game, for 70$. I am sure that even [Fifa] games look and feel much fresher in that department, after this much time. And it is more than just the intro animation, most of the movement seems to be the same, as you can see in the following video. To me it feels like Fever is just a slightly more ambitious Nintendo Switch 2 version of Aces. As someone who owns Aces, I do not feel like missing out at all.

@FishyS
Well it makes sense if it's new to you. I recall feeling reluctance back in 2020 buying Demons Souls for $70 and Spiderman for $70 (a remake and a port of a game I already owned). Then I remember buying Returnal for $70 and Ratchet & Clank for $70, and thinking, "I thought I'd decided to be more selective with which games I buy moving forward".

In the end, it just normalized. And it will normalize for others, too. Just like when price jumped from $50 to $60 on Wii U- eventually it just became normal. Not to say I don't sometimes wait for a sale for $70 games. I am more conscientious nowadays than I used to be. But mostly I'll just trim off every 7th game I would have bought to equalize the extra expense of the other 6.

Back on Switch, games like Zelda Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey was $60, while Mario Tennis Aces was too. Yet I still found it worthwhile. But I like variety- I don't want every game to be an epic quest. Some games I just want a fun core gameplay mechanic (Mario sports titles, WarioWare games, Switch Sports, etc). Rhythm Heaven will probably be $60 which, if compared to Zelda/Mario seems crazy. Idk if I can make a rational argument for why it may still be worth it, but I think it may still be worth it. Call it intuition (and if it's discounted it's a no-brainer, but I'm not getting my hopes up).

@JaxonH i gotta ask, cause like, i get some people just don't mesh well with air riders, but... what is this comparison? how are they at all comparable? one is a party brawler/racer, and one is a tennis game. the only vague connection they share is that they're both sports games, but i don't think that puts them in the space of one being "vastly superior".

@squiddu-real
The comparison is that one was criticized for something the other wasn't, despite no real difference in single player content offered.

They are also both priced at $70, and both 1st party titles from Nintendo. They both have a multiplayer focus but integrate a decent amount of single player content for those uninterested in multiplayer. Both are gameplay-centric, received similar critical reception and released in a similar timeframe. There is more than just one dimension for comparisons.

The genres are completely irrelevant- they are not the dimension of comparison. Imagine a pizza being compared with a ham sandwich. Similar price, similar total mass, both served for lunch. Yet the sandwich gets criticized for not being large enough while the pizza does not, despite both having same mass and weight for same price. Would you say, "How can you compare a ham sandwich with a pizza?! They're completely different!" Of course not.

Would you consider a triangle incomparable to a square because they are "completely different"? Comparisons can still be made. They contrast in sides, yes, but perhaps their area is similar. Perhaps side lengths are similar. They are both geometric shapes for which any number of comparisons could be made. Differing in one doesn't preclude similarities in another. Anything can be compared and contrasted if addressing the relevant aspects.

@squiddu-real
I can see where he’s coming from, having played a lot of Fever and Air Riders myself (I really like both).

They’re both party games, essentially, locally or online or whatever. They both just have an arcade-y, party feel to them.

And that’s… well, yea. They both are simple to pick up and have fun quickly, but there is depth if you want. Like @JaxonH said, the exact genres don’t matter so much as them both being party games.

And to stir up further controversy: I can’t wait for Rhythm Heaven to be 60 bucks, but people around here will defend it to all get-out because it’s a cult classic series.

I don’t know how long it’s gonna take for people to come to grips with the fact that pricing is never gonna make sense for everybody, and any discussion that’s going to use it to justify a “review” of a game is not a discussion worth having.

I also just saw an interesting tweet about well, why kids are less interested in DQ/FF compared to something like Pokemon even though Pokemon is just the Worst according to some people.

@darkfenrir
It's not just the long dev cycles, it's also the fact there's less marketing in the west for FF/DQ, and FF started trying to cater exclusively to young adults on PS which killed it's growth, and besides DQXIS I can't think of a single mainline DQ in the west that was hyped up and marketed.

And for all its faults, Pokemon is still fun and addictive enough (otherwise people wouldn't buy and play it). I don't think it's better- at least, most of the time. Though I'm hoping that changes with Gen 10 and the next Legends game built ground up for NS2.

There's also more Pokemon spinoffs that are good and marketed well. Pokopia is a good example. One exception being Dragon Quest Builders 2. That game was straight 🔥. But like, DQ Heroes 1 and 2 never came west and had performance issues, FF spinoffs have been pretty horrible and typically exclusive like Dissidia on PS and Explorers on 3DS.

I think things could turn around with DQ 1-3 trilogy in HD-2D followed by DQ7 Reimagined, and hopefully soon DQ12. And Final Fantasy is gaining some traction with the FF7 Remake trilogy finally coming to Nintendo and without a decade wait to complete the trilogy.

What they need is a really high quality Final Fantasy spinoff like Dragon Quest Builders 2 was. Not in that same genre, but with the same level of quality. Tactics, for example, was a cheap remaster. It deserved a high quality new release on the level of Fire Emblem, or at least Triangle Strategy. Even the Pixel Remasters were an embarrassment. They just don't invest enough money and resources into the brand unless it's a big AAA mainline release. Huge mistake.

@rallydefault
Pricing being a factor in reviews never made sense to me anyways because sales and price drops happen. In which case you're now referencing a tainted assessment based on something no longer true. It's so simple- review the GAME and let the reader decide whether it's worth whatever price is being asked at that time.

@darkfenrir Pokemon and Mario definitely stay in awareness by having constant games, but the average Pokemon game is also more approachable for young kids than the average Final Fantasy.

As for Dragon Quest... it's more of a direct competitor with Pokemon in some ways but it lost that battle decades ago.

Given all the spinoffs, dragon quest releases are actually quite often - there are 15 Dragon Quest games on Switch and 17 Pokemon games (counting DLC as separate releases but counting game pairs like S/V as a single game).