Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

Eh, I’m old school. I can take voice acting or leave it, doesn’t make a difference to me.

Didn’t bother me at all in Z-A, for instance. Even big JRPGs it really doesn’t bother me, though most of the medium and high-budget ones these days are fully voiced.

I just want good gameplay. I don’t know why people get all twisted over stuff like this.

I've made a few jokes over the years about Patricia Summersett's accent for Zelda landing somewhere in the middle of the North Atlantic. However, at the same time, she's a very talented and experienced actor and I don't think that they could have found anyone who would have done a better job.

She's just got the impossible task of fighting thirty years of headcanon, although with four games under her belt now, she's at least starting to win some of the fans over.

You're missing the point, the voice acting isn't the issue, the issue is that they're trying to give Samus co-stars and doing it in a way that ruins the image of Samus being a solitary one-woman army, in both story and gameplay. And ruining the core identity is not the way to expand an audience, that just causes rifts in the fanbase. There may be a way to handle this a bit better, perhaps by continuing what they've tried to do with other bounty hunters, but they have to be a bit more delicate about this aspect than they've been.

@Bolt_Strike
the issue is that they're trying to give Samus co-stars and doing it in a way that ruins the image of Samus being a solitary one-woman army, in both story and gameplay. And ruining the core identity is not the way to expand an audience, that just causes rifts in the fanbase

I think there's nothing wrong with co-stars. Not that I want a CPU controlled partner beside me all game- that I would not be ok with. But simply adding allied characters with personalities that contribute to the core story of rescuing stranded Galactic Federation soldiers... I don't think that ruins anything.

Just because she's been a "one person army" in the past doesn't mean no game can ever feature any ally or weave characters into a story that actually has more weight to it than reading lore entries. That doesn't ruin anything. Like, literally nothing is ruined by that.

The vast majority of the game adheres to the classic formula. The notion that any deviation from a game released 2.5 decades ago, which itself was essentially a first person reimagining of a game 1 decade prior to that, "ruins" it, holds no water in my estimation. If you just want the exact same experience as before, go replay that same game from 2.5 decades ago and you'll get precisely what you want. There's no need for a new game if it's just going to regurgitate the exact same thing as before. It becomes like Star Fox, just recycling over and over and over.

Samus has many stories to tell. And they aren't all "all alone, and I mean ALL alone, all game long, for the 10th game in a row". In one story she was indeed stranded alone. In another she found the last living Chozo, an ally NPC that played a distinct role. In another she allied with 3 other bounty hunters and Galactic Federation Soldiers against Dark Samus and the Space Pirates. In another she went to answer a distress call and ultimately worked with and saved a handful of stranded Galactic Federation troops, her long established allies.

That's simply not ruining anything. It's just a different story. Again, if the game had a CPU controlled partner beside you ALL GAME LONG, I'd agree 100%. But simply integrating some characters with small bite sized chunks of scripted scenes and missions here and there, speckled throughout a 20-30 hour experience? Come on.

If you said, "I'm skeptical but, we'll see once I play it" and afterwards said you didn't like it, I'd be like, ok. But when you render a verdict that a game is "ruined" before it even releases or you've tried yourself with an open mind, I'm probably not going to believe you even if you do play it, because you already made up your mind to hate it beforehand.

The game doesn't have an issue. The issue is the box that purists put it into, declaring what it "can and cannot be". Imagine Super Mario Bros 3 releasing with the tanooki suit and purists declaring, "This ruins the identity of Mario! It's all about running and jumping, not flying across the stages!" or Metroid Prime releasing and purists declaring "Scanning ruins the identity of Metroid! It's not a point and click investigation, it should be all shooting!", and so on. Games are allowed (and should be encouraged to) deviate from established norms and explore new concepts and offer fresh experiences. Prime series is a spinoff anyways. If it's not allowed to try a few new things here and there, what is?

I look at it like this, more often than not great gameplay and great story don't overlap. Or at least gameplay I find interesting and a story I find interesting don't overlap. It's not at all uncommon for me to be deeply engrossed in a game's mechanics and then just rapidly skip through the dialogue. Sometimes it lands, often it doesn't

A game with crappy gameplay and a great story? Well, at that point what you've done is make a TV show or movie that has these annoying intermissions where you do quicktime events or something. Why would I care? I'd rather just watch a good movie or show at that point. A game with a crappy or thin story but great gameplay? Well, I can get past the story quickly and enjoy the gameplay. Which I can't experience in other media. So there's no issue

I think the core issue here is you care and until the game proves otherwise, I do not think nearly anyone else does. It is fairly inconsequential to the success and acclaim of this video game. I also do not think most people thought Prime 3's use of voice acting affected it that dramatically. It just showed a different side of a pre-existing series and most people are fine with that, even people who would prefer otherwise. I barely even think of Prime 3 as an NPC, voice acted game. It's certainly there, but I don't think much about it even when thinking about the game. I mostly think of it as the motion controlled game, with the corruption gimmick, on multiple planets. I think of the new direction they went with beams before voice acting, and half of you reading this forgot Prime 3 changed that up until I brought it up.

The first "voice" I think of is the chanting of the first area music you go to after the intro parts. I had no feelings about it or thought it made any dramatic change to the experience of a Metroid Prime outside of having a couple of mildly different sequences.

And yes I know there's been an online backlash, but having an online backlash means nothing a significant amount of time. The Switch 2 is a good example of that.

@kkslider5552000 No, that is not the issue. In terms of sales, the larger, macroeconomic issue has been Japan's reluctance towards shooters and isolation. I bring up the isolation because the players that are still buying it are buying it BECAUSE of the isolation. And again, completely pulling a 180 away from the core appeal of a game has never really worked out sales wise, that's not how you expand an audience.

As far as acclaim goes, there's been widespread complaints from both the fans and media outlets on the NPC mechanic. So you're dead wrong about it not having an effect on the acclaim. The only thing that can save Prime 4's acclaim is if the other characters aren't as egregious as McKenzie, otherwise this is going to be a clear drag on the game's critical reception. You'd have to be living under a rock not to see it.

Ignoring the particulars of this game and what these supposed changes mean. If we're talking about a game taking a different direction then sure, it risks losing their audience. It risks not paying off critically or commercially. But I would argue that not attempting change risks stagnation and, frankly, I'm not particularly interested in playing New Metroid Prime U Deluxe. I want to play a Metroid game that has something of value to say for itself

Also, lets not forget, Metroid Prime itself was not Super Metroid. As far as I can tell it's just people trying to stir up drama. And, to be blunt, @Bolt_Strike has been pretty keen on complaining about Prime 4 for months now. Was only a month or so ago we were going on the "where's Metroid" and "it's delayed again and there are no games" bit

I don't know, the game seems to present fairly well from what we've seen to this point. So I'm not concerned

I think the other problem is its just rare that I think even notable issues in a major Nintendo release affect things too badly for me. Like I brought up Mario and Luigi: Dream Team, its tutorials are AWFUL, they're obnoxious, they feel like the final nail in the coffin to the overly handholding nature of at least certain mainstream games. Massive issue for that game, awful decision.

Game was still really good. shrugs I dunno, I still really liked that one. Obviously it would be better without it but like...did I regret my purchase, no, not even remotely. Even Phantom Hourglass, tons of issues with that game. Way too much of it is playing the same level again, some of the most embarrassing music ever put into a Nintendo game, one of the most massive let downs of a game trying to be a Wind Waker sequel. ...its still a good game tho so...I dunno what to tell you.

Like I get the issue but like...this is normal. I mean, yeah I get the larger issue in terms of what Metroid is, but do people care or were a vocal minority annoyed by a thing once? This is a common internet problem where people online are angry and then in reality it didn't matter. It's not a guarantee certainly but like, I can't imagine a more common thing happening.

I'm not speaking in absolutes but it would still mean that they marketed the game for a good while without these things in a way that would appeal to no one except previous enjoyers of Metroid Prime and then throw these out here at the last minute as the real focus of the game somehow. The only logical explanation I can think of is either you're wrong or the same Nintendo marketing that lead to record sales constantly, including for the previous brand new Metroid release, are really bad at their job.

I mean I could make the argument that Fusion, the 2nd Metroid game I had played, had you babysat by a computer that would guide you to your destination and betrayed the natural exploration and lack of dialogue of previous Metroids if I wanted to, but that game's awesome so no one cares. If the game was widely considered to be a disappointment, people would care.

@kkslider5552000 The computer in Fusion is restricted to the rooms where you interface with it. It's not following along and being Marvel "funny" without you asking it.

@OmnitronVariant its also in a notable percentage of the game while this one character is in ___ amount of the game and ahs only been shown once across several batches of marketing across nearly a year and a half.

Like a decent chunk of a normal Fusion playthrough is just reading the computer dialogue. It is unquestionably a standout part of that game and I have heard people cite it as a notable negative part of the game and a reason it is below other Metroid games for them. But those were people disliking a part of a game they actually played, while this is the more valid complaint of seeing minutes of a presumably 20 hour game, so fair enough.

@kkslider5552000 I'm not claiming McKenzee (or other characters like him) are going to be ubiquitous in MP4 — I simply can't know that yet. But I think we can both agree it's an entirely different design philosophy than dialogue constrained to rooms where the player first has to interact with a computer. Not just in terms of the function, but also design philosophy. I fully understand why fans of MP1 in particular are worried about this.

@skywake
Totally agree. A great story is awesome and everything, but if the gameplay isn't there, the game just turns into a tunnel of suffering just to see it through. But good gameplay with a bad story? Well, then... and I know this is shocking to some people.. you're just playing a fun game with a bad story you can skip. lol

Anyway, yea, this whole discussion is funny. I get that people really care about Metroid despite its historically lukewarm sales, but Nintendo's clearly looking to try and shake it up a bit in certain areas (maybe to generate more sales, maybe not, I don't know), so I say let's see how it turns out.

I don't see this exactly as Metroid's Skyward Sword - BotW moment because Prime 4 still looks pretty darn similar to the other 3 Primes, but I will say that I'm actually more excited for this game based on what I've seen, and I'm NOT a Metroid fan. I fall into the "generic gamer who wants a fun fps campaign" bucket, willing to put up with some puzzles and backtracking every now and then.

Unless there are really long unskippable cut scenes-- it's easy enough to ruin an otherwise fun game with bad pacing.

There are definitely games where the actual 'action' part would be fun in the correct context, but the story or context makes it feel pointless or breaks up the continuity too much and it becomes much less fun.

It's a subtle balance to make the action part of a game feel motivated and make the whole experience good. Obviously it massively depends on the genre - Tetris doesn't need a plot or context more than the existence of a high score tracker or a few other stated goals. A bad plot is enough for Mario just to feel like you are doing something for a purpose but no plot at all definitely makes it less fun. And Pokemon to me feels like a much better experience if there is a decent plot as opposed to just walking around and torturing random animals. Obviously a visual novel plot needs to suck you in so much that even the mouse click choices you do feels immersive and interactive and like 'good gameplay'.

PSA
You can now load up to $800 on your Nintendo Account. And on gcx.raise website, you can buy eShop credit for 10% off (so $5 back on first $50 card, then $4.50 back on next because you're paying $45, then $45.50 back on every one after, equaling 9.1% back).

You can then use that credit to purchase hardware like the NSW2. This equates to $409 for the base console, and $454 for the bundle.

eShop Credit 10% Off

NSW2 Base Console

To add to the gameplay and story issue, Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon is a top 10, maybe top 5 video game story ever for me. Love that aspect of it, and it makes up a decent chunk of the game, on top of the great atmosphere it often has.

It's still only a 6/10 entirely because the gameplay is largely kinda bad. It is the rare game you would wish was a walking simulator instead, if not...not a video game entirely!

And I actively hated/didn't care about most of the story in Bayonetta 2, it was still pretty great because gameplay, even though trying to care about its story made it below some other Platinum games for me (until my copy of the game kept crashing on this one later level, that part certainly sucked).

Even better deal. Buy purchasing a Sam's Club Membership (on sale for $25 down from $60), you can then buy up to x5 total 5-packs of $20 eShop cards for $80 each... 20% off, minus the $25 spent on membership, which equals 15% off if buying the max $500 worth for $400 + $25 membership.

15% off means a NSW2 base console is $382.50 and a NSW2 bundle is $425, and that's after factoring in the cost of the membership.

Obviously, you then use the eShop Credit to buy the NSW2 on the official Nintendo Store website.

$25 Sams Club Membership

$100 eShop Credit $79.98 (max of 5)

Oh I definitely agree that you can't be too conservative and similar to older games, but I think they picked the wrong elements to change. Moving away from the elements that your fans like is never a good idea, if they wanted to take a risk to expand their audience, the better approach would've been to expand on the Metroidvania elements rather than detracting from them. Show us that Metroidvanias could do more than we might've thought possible and raise the standard for what a Metroidvania can be. Some examples of that would be changing the progression system to more of a Mega Man-esque progression where you don't need to collect upgrades in a specific order and allowing more sequence breaking techniques to go wherever you want, expanding on Prime/Prime 2's beam combos with a larger scale upgrade combo mechanic (like combining beam elements with other types of weapons), mechanics like that would be a better shakeup of the genre to build on that wouldn't be as divisive. As is, aside from the controversial changes that make it feel less Metroid-y (the open world with the bike, the NPC escorts) this game really does feel pretty close to New Metroid U Deluxe. IMO they did this game all wrong, they changed things that should've stayed the same and kept things the same they should've experimented more with. Makes me VERY curious what the cancelled Bandai-Namco build was like, I have a hard time imagining a worse direction for the game than this.

Ehh, I never was really bothered by Adam's dialogue that much. Yeah he talked a lot, but there was also a lot of action in between.

Additionally, this is more than just a storyline issue, there's gameplay issues with it too. The character follows you around, you have to wait for them to catch up with you, and you even have to keep the character from dying against enemies or else it's a game over. So you're spending a significant amount of the game babysitting the enemies rather than going off on your own like a typical Metroid game.

@FishyS
Ehhhh sorry, but you’re really stretching there. For the most part, things are very skippable, especially games made in the last couple decades, and then further back than that you’re not really looking at huge cut scenes for the most part. It happens, sure, but so does everything lol

And the Mario statement is… quite odd. Mario didn’t have an actual plot beat until like… Mario 64, and those are some of the best games of all time. “Less fun” is not a phrase I would ever associate with the early Mario games just because they didn’t have stories.

And @Bolt_Strike Is just continuing his streak of being incredibly wrong about everything lol

@rallydefault Even the first Super Mario Bros had a story. You can call it a silly one but the game would have been worse without it. If it was just 'here are some levels to jump through...' Yeah, not as fun. That is why full games are always more satisfying than playing random mario maker levels - you have a real goal. I would also consider the setting to be an important part of the story. A lot of the world building has nothing to do with the actual technical gameplay mechanics but are definitely part of the story part of the game.

But yeah, I am not arguing whatsoever regarding metroid prime 4 - I have zero opinion on the side character topic; I was just commenting on the 'importance of story' tangent people were discussing in the thread. I thought we had moved past MP4 to more general.