Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

I honestly don't think Nintendo cares too much about Metroid's success in Japan. Or at most, Other M was an attempt to fix that that didn't work and then, if you noticed, haven't given Japan a Metroid game to make since. Which granted, 4 new games isn't a lot, but that's across 3 devs, all outside of Japan.

Like I'm sure there's Japanese game design choices and the like that end up being involved, especially since they're generally still overseen by people who made the classic games. But they're their own niche, they know that, they try to succeed at that niche.

I mean I guess you could look at Federation Force, but...I dunno. At best it was made because NSMBWii made all the money and then other platformers and then Triforce Heroes happened so here we got another co-op game, a thing that feels weirdly not a mainstream gaming focus anymore except when Hazelight make a game. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that game was made for anyone in particular. I think for a year or two Nintendo's primarily demographic might've actually been no one in particular, pre-Switch era was rough.

Ya, I don't see Prime 4 as catering to Japan in the slightest. Nothing is controversial except among a minority of purists. I don't see including a few additional characters as hindering nor helping its success. It will stand, or fall, based on how good it is irrespective of that aspect.

Ultimately, I think they're just making the game they want to make. But it definitely doesn't seem to be catering to Japan. Not that I'd be opposed to that if it were, I just don't see it. The producer revealed this was essentially the idea he had for Metroid Prime 2 originally, so like Dread, I think it's just the creative vision, and if ppl in Japan don't like it, oh well. Can't please everyone I suppose.

@Ralizah
I hope it does as well as you predict on NSW2. I know it's not exactly the same as say, Bayonetta, but I do think it could be a gateway drug to other action focused games, which could benefit Platinum titles in the future.

@skywake Our two arguments aren't mutually exclusive, in fact they're perfectly aligned. "niche genre appeal and significantly lower marketing budget" combines with not having much time to game and being less willing to spend money and time on experimenting to mean exactly what the term "niche product" itself denotes: A product that doesn't appeal to the majority. Keep in mind the majority only means "at least above 50%", but even then, with less marketing and less mainstream appeal less people with little time and (available) money are less likely to give them a go at all. It's really that simple.

Case in point: Elden Ring was marketed more heavily to the mainstream than any of From's former games via collaborations with G.R.R. Martin and it being inserted into pop culture via article after article, and lo and behold: Said friends I have who barely play games all ended up playing it. I do wonder how much money all that cost From, and I can only guess why Nintendo doesn't do the same for these IP's. Most likely the risk isn't worth it versus having relatively niche games that still make a return on relatively cheap investment in development compared to most other games.

@Bolt_Strike
Btw I watched that video. It has some good insights. Particularly concerning sci-fi being more predominant in western countries and Japan being drawn to social experiences (probably explains all those Trails and Persona games centered around classes in school).

@FishyS
That motion sickness is unfortunate. It seems rare but there is one other I know of who has that issue. BUT, I will add, they played the MP4 demo at Walmart in 120fps and said they had no issues. May be worth considering trying the demo out. 120 frames may be just what the doctor ordered!

@OmnitronVariant
It's a different thing. Popularity of a genre/franchise/artist within a media is largely a measure of how big the marketing budget for that thing was. It somewhat correlates to the dedication of the average fan of that thing given that a more casual consumer is more likely to be exposed to the more heavily marketed things. I'll give you that. But the popularity in the first place is not a function of the average fan's dedication. It's more just a function of how "easy" it is for people less open to being challenged and, more importantly, how much money was put behind it

But, to take it out of the gaming context a bit, talking about actual people and the time they have. It's entirely possible to be casual music fan who only has the time/money for ad supported Spotify on their commute. But listens largely to modern folk, experimental or art-rock. Just as it's possible to be someone with a dedicated listening space, a collection of Vinyl, a regular concert go-er who often travels interstate for shows.... but it's literally just Taylor Swift

It didn't take me much time, money, energy or effort to get into games like Bayonetta or Astral Chain. I just saw the trailers and thought "that looks cool, when's it out?". But I am not the average end user. I am me. I have my own tastes and interests. I would wager that a game which involves a Witch slaying Demons and Angels with her hair probably doesn't have the same mass appeal or indeed the same corporate friendly image as, for example, a game where you pick apples or save the princess

Personally, I'm not surprised that the Xenoblade Chronicles titles haven't sold that much. They're sprawling open-world games with a complicated, mature plot and gameplay mechanics that take quite some time to learn... So they're not really the sort of easy-to-get-into games your stereotypical Nintendo player prefers, and while there is an audience among Switch owners for big, complex games like this, that audience is most likely marginal compared to fans of Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, etc. I'd argue that in this regard the XC titles are closer to PC-centric games like Baldur's Gate 3 or Assassin's Creed Odyssey. So if the Xenoblade games were to be ported to PC they might find a more appreciative audience there, but of course Nintendo is never gonna do that.

It's actually relatively common which is why I was wondering if it might have an actual effect on game sales. Think of all the people who were even complaining about motion sickness in Donkey Kong Bananza which is only marginably a motion-sickable game. I know lots of people with similar issues for FPS - if you yourself have it and bring it up, people tend to chime in. I've seen claims that it might be over 50% in asia but, again, the studies are not particularly scientific so who knows for sure.

There's other people complaining about motion sickness in Bananza?! My people... (it's me, i'm one of those people lol). Tried out the demo and it made me sick so incredibly fast.

Camera shake causes motion sickness in a lot of people. Can you even turn it off in Bananza? I forget if there was an option, but if not, I suspect that's a big part of it.

@darkfenrir @OmnitronVariant Both the camera shake and the random occasional switching to first person or other weird perspectives while digging was kind of a double whammy. I was a bit motion sick for the first hour of Bananza but I learned to control the camera precisely enough that I barely had any for the rest of the game. There are also settings for camera sensitivity and you can completely turn off camera shake. There were a lot of people complaining about motion sickness early on but I got the impression that changing the settings and just playing more of the game helped for most people, although maybe not everyone. For pure first person games it tends to get worse for me over time rather than better so I was very happy Bananza ended up being playable for me.

For that genre, I think the motion sickness surprised a lot of people; some clearly had never really played the type of games where that is a serious problem so didn't even know they were susceptible.

@FishyS That's awesome to hear that it lessened as you moved forward! I'm not a huge fan of platformers, so the motion sickness just cemented my choice, haha.

@FishyS Ah good to know camera shake could be turned off. I probably did that early on then, but I don't have the game installed anymore so didn't want to reinstall to check. It usually doesn't make me motion sick, but it almost always annoys me, so I tend to turn it off whenever possible.

I saw it reported on about Nintendo's presence at Milan Games Week (November 28th - 30th), the upcoming games present are:

• Prime 4
• FFVII Remake
• RE Requiem
• MH Stories 3
• Elden Ring

It'll be interesting to see how much the Elden Ring port has changed since that infamous Gamescom demo.

@Grumblevolcano
It'll be even more improved, but I don't think it'll quite be 100% yet. I'm pretty sure Elden Ring is gonna be fine once it releases though. It needed more time in the oven is all. And thankfully, they decided to give it just that.

It's why I was so perplexed at how much people were freaking out. I kind of get it because, why demo a game that's clearly not ready? But at the same time, if it's clearly not ready then it's not ready. Give it time. If games like Cyberpunk, Star Wars Outlaws, Assassin's Creed Shadows, Resident Evil Requiem, etc can run no problem, there's really nothing to fret about. The game just needs sufficient development time before release.

Had they not delayed it, I would have been extremely disappointed.

Bananza has camera shake? I didn’t even notice. I count myself lucky, I suppose - I’ve never had motion sickness with games.

Where is Treasure? For real, where are they? I need my Sin & Punishment 3, like right now. Mouse aiming. Gyro aiming. I formally submit a motion to my fellow members to start a movement pressing Nintendo to fund a new Sin & Punishment with Treasure.

@rallydefault
Neither have I. Except with VR, which made me dizzy and I hated it. But normal games on flat screens? No.

I imagine playing handheld mode would solve any issues ppl have though. Whereas on other consoles you'd kinda be at the mercy of the genre, on NSW2 you can just undock and play portably. I've never heard anyone having issues playing handhelds.

I mean sure they're not being made by Japanese developers, but if they were really trying to succeed in that niche they wouldn't be doing things like trying to include more NPCs/cutscenes when every Metroid fan in the West says that isolation and atmosphere is a key part of Metroid's appeal. The devs have repeatedly refused to not listen to that, at first in smaller ways like with more cutscenes in games like Fusion, Prime 3, and Dread, but the Prime games are steering more towards multiple characters being involved, not just with FF but with the NPC escorts in Prime 4. These do not sound like mechanics pitched by Western devs that understand Metroid's appeal but Japanese devs (maybe Tanabe, since Sakomoto and MercurySteam aren't doing the same for 2D Metroid) trying to reach Japanese fans. I do not think we would be seeing these ideas pitched if they were paying attention to what Western fans want, they should easily understand how counterproductive that is.

Well I was watching a video on that and there was a theory that Nintendo just threw out whatever ideas they had late in the 3DS/Wii U's lifespan because the Wii U was tanking. I could kind of buy this theory, not in the sense that they stopped caring about quality control as the video implied, but they stopped filtering ideas through the lens of what concepts they thought might be successful because it was clear that pretty much nothing would be at that time. They probably just put out whatever they could get running in an acceptable state to tide them over until 2017, we did see a lot more experimental titles released/announced in 2015 that weren't really as well thought out and you had to wonder who those ideas were for (besides Federation Force and Triforce Heroes you had games like Amiibo Festival, Mario & Luigi Paper Jam, Code Name S.T.E.A.M., Mario vs. DK Tipping Stars, and Mario Tennis Ultra Smash). They weren't all flops, we had the likes of Splatoon and Mario Maker, but overall these games weren't some of their better ideas.

But again, FF is not an isolated incident with Metroid so I don't think they greenlit it purely because of tanking sales. What they've done with Hunters, 3, and 4 has definitely pointed towards wanting to reduce the isolation to attempt to get Japanese fans more interested.

I strongly disagree with this, on the basis that adding more characters and dialogue IS western pandering.

Like I'm sure Metroid diehards aren't begging for that but that is a small percentage of people buying Nintendo games. The assumption (from both fans and companies) is that voice acting is the norm for AAA games, hence why there's voice acting for an almost bare minimum amount for BOTW, why there are talking flowers in Mario now, why Dread has an annoying robot voice. And because Prime 3 already added voice acting, presumably on some level to be a selling point back then, that trend continues.

If you want to be annoyed, be annoyed at the people who pretended Zelda needed voice acting, and we got mediocre English voice acting in BOTW and it made all the money so now the assumption is that it worked. (whether by coincidence or not, it is very funny how much more mid BOTW's story is compared to previous 3D Zeldas)

I'm not saying you're wrong about it being not good (or at least that's not the point), it is more that you are in all likelihood, wrong about how it is being done. They are not fundamentally changing their games, they are doing the bare minimum as a selling point. It would be better to either not pander to stupid assumptions like that and just make a product not needing bare minumum pandering to weirdos who think all video games need voice acting and more dialogue or whatever or do a good version of an Other M or something (god I wish a well written Other M existed so Other M defenders could stop making weird assumptions that people went into the game wanting to hate it, what was my most anticipated video game until it wasn't). But the vast majority of people, including Metroid fans, will play Metroid Prime 4 and not have the voice acting have a dramatic negative effect on them and almost certainly will play a relatively minor role in the game in the first place in terms of time spent on it. If I'm wrong, I'll be truly bewildered by the game, I'll say that much.

I dare say, if you are buying a full priced video game in 2025, you will almost always come across games that did more to pander to some vague large audience somewhere. Like if they were doing more to pander to any audience, their marketing is complete nonsense then, because the only people who would want to play Metroid Prime 4 based on previous trailers are people who want to play a Metroid Prime game. (which granted, yes, that particular character is a dumb choice to be in this game at all, as is, with that in mind)

Hey, I like voice acting in my games. I'll admit they didn't exactly wow me with the voice acting in Zelda BotW and TotK, but I'd still rather have it than not.

And tbh, I'm floored with the extremely high quality VA in Metroid Prime 4. Probably the best of any Nintendo game I've seen or played to date. And of course, to have some spoken dialog you need characters to speak it. And I like that aspect of the game. It certainly makes it more appealing to me. I would have played it anyways regardless, but I do think my time with it will be enjoyed even more as a result.

Lack of VA is one of my biggest issues with Pokemon. Quality VA is why Trails In The Sky 1st Chapter engrossed me so much. Text dialog can still get me attached to characters and story, but it almost always hits harder when it's voiced (and even more so when it's voiced well).

I do agree I'd prefer to have it if good but it was so underwhelming in BOTW it did really annoy me (at least when I went back to it because I first went with the Japanese VAs in that and I was glad I did). The performances are just...nothing to feel anything about. They exist, they do their job, they're fine. I don't understand why there wouldn't be a strong commitment to make sure they're the best they could reasonably be. Compare this to Xenoblade or Kid Icarus: Uprising...honestly even some Star Fox games. It feels like they care in a way I did not get from BOTW. Like why bother if its so boring and mid and doesn't add to the game.

I was really glad they did better in TOTK and even Age of Calamity, so I know its not the actors necessarily.