Topic: Anyone else a bit unhappy with backwards compatibility?

This may be a stupid question, but have you turned on the setting where the S2 inputs HDR to the TV only if the game supports it? I have an LG 4K TV as well, and originally I used the setting where the S2 forced HDR on every game, but that made the colours on some Switch 1 games (none of which obviously have native HDR support) look kinda odd and muted on the telly. So I changed the setting, and now those S1 games look they should again without the forced HDR.

That is one thing I need to check, yes. I did go through some procedure from a Youtube guide because 'out of the box' it wasn't possible to adjust HDR correctly (something something crushed levels I forgot).

@NintendoWife What games have you tested that you believe have extra input lag?

Mark from Electric Underground did his usual input lag tests on some shmups and fighting games and found that the input lag was basically the same as Switch 1 for the games he tested.

Another Youtuber, noodalls, tested some more fighting games and found that 2 games had basically the same input lag (Smash Ultimate and Capcom vs. SNK 2) while 2 others had less input lag on Switch 2 (Dragon Ball FighterZ and Guilty Gear Strive).

@Azileron How is Nier Automata unplayable? I tried it for a little while on the Switch 2 and it didn't seem to have any issues. Does something happen if you play for a longer stretch? (I only played it for half an hour or so.)

Edit: I did a bit of digging, and apparently a lot of players have had crashes and other issues on route B, whereas route C seems to work fine. I'm on my second playthrough and I'd already made it to route C before buying the Switch 2, so I guess that would explain why I didn't have any issues.

@NintendoWife
Firstly it's not emulating Switch games, there's a translation layer. It's a similar sort of process that happens on something like the Steam Deck or, to some degree, what graphics card drivers do on PC. Obviously all processes take some time but I don't think it's significant. I certainly haven't noticed it and, frankly, your post is the first time I've seen someone complain about the docked experience

When people complain about Switch 2 BC, as they are doing in this thread even ignoring your post entirely, they're talking about the handheld experience. They're talking about the LCD screen being broadly worse than the one on the OLED model. They're talking about how 720p doesn't neatly fit into 1080p. I think these issues have been somewhat overblown as they always tend to be in this day and age. But they are there

But what you're describing.... yeah, doesn't really add up. Switch 2 will scale internally to 4K if 4K is set and 4K is a nice multiple of both 720p and 1080p so that shouldn't be an isssue. Also there are more pixels to play with at that resolution. And then additionally, I haven't heard anything regarding input latency docked. I also haven't noticed it myself or had any issues with colour/contrast. Honestly, the issue is more likely your TV's settings. You haven't tuned the HDR properly or the input isn't set to game-mode or something

Watch this, set the HDR setting to "compatible software only", also make sure HGIG on your TV is turned on and then come back

Yes, I tried things like: Octopath Traveller II, handheld, just going through the title menu options and seeing how quick the cursor would follow the input.

It's not huge, but the difference is there.

Interesting, thanks for the links! Wonder how he measured input lag, did he film the buttons?

Thanks for the link on HDR, I'll give that a go!
As for translation layer vs. emulation, would you have a source on that too, or someone describing what's happening there?

To be clear, I'd love to be wrong on this. I had just come from trying out GameCube emulation on Switch 2 and found the input lag appalling (right from the title menu of Wind Waker, feels like half a second before the cursor follows your input), so I was very sensitive to any untight feel.

The two use slightly different techniques to measure input lag.

Mark wires an LED to his input device (likely an arcade stick) and then films the game and the LED with a high-speed camera (likely 120 Hz). You can see the LED and the screen in the footage I linked. The LED lights up immediately when the input is registered by the input device, and then he just counts the difference in game frames between the LED lighting up and the corresponding game action happening on screen.

Noodalls' method is a little less clear to me. He uses what he calls the "phototransitor method," which involves using a phototransistor to measure a change in light on screen at a fixed location that he knows will change on button press. Usually he'll use the command history in a fighting game's training mode for this purpose. But I'm not exactly sure how he measures the time that a button is pressed.

It's from this interview with the devs that worked on Switch 2 backwards compatibility:

Dohta: If we tried to use technology like software emulators (22), we’d have to run Switch 2 at full capacity, but that would mean the battery wouldn't last so long, so we did something that’s somewhere in between a software emulator and hardware compatibility.

(22) A software program that imitates certain hardware. Commonly used to run old software on a new device and requires higher processing power than the original device.

Sasaki: This is getting a bit technical, but the process of converting game data for Switch to run on Switch 2 is performed on a real-time basis as the data is read in.

The GCN emulation in the NSO app is pretty bad and is known to have high input lag, so you're not alone in this feeling. This video from Digital Foundry shows how the NSO GCN app version of F-Zero GX increases the input lag of the GCN original from about 4 frames to about 7 frames. But to be clear, this is an issue with the GCN app and not the Switch 2 itself.

@Azileron They're definitely pretty bad at communicating. Klonoa is one game I have which won't even open on Switch 2. I and several others I have spoken to all reported this to Nintendo. But the eShop page still says the game is fully supported on Switch 2. Continuing to sell a game from a major partner (Bandai) which doesn't work and just refunding it everytime someone complains shows pretty poor internal-to-Nintendo communication.

@Azileron Hard agree. I can't for the life of me figure out why Nintendo thought it would be a good idea to stop updating the compatibility lists. Makes absolutely no sense.

@FishyS That's really irritating that they're just trying to sweep the Klonoa issue under the rug without even acknowledging it.

I don’t know how Nintendo messed this up so bad. Xbox one X was forever ago. That was the model to copy. Here we are waiting for patches which should have been available for free day one. Instead here we are paying for upgrades no different than ps5.

Honestly after Iwata passed away, it's been a slow but steady decline. I almost don't recognize the Nintendo of today vs. the Wii U or even early Switch era. The playfulness is just gone, and what we've been left with is a min-maxing purely profit driven company.

@OmnitronVariant,

"what we've been left with is a min-maxing purely profit driven company."

That's every company in a nutshell, they exist to make a profit.

I can definitely see how some people think they've lost their magic though. Even for me, so far I am not liking the Switch 2 situation as much as the original Switch simply because of Game Key Cards and what Nintendo of America did to Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth Collection and other Japanese games last fall. Though a lot of the things I've seen and heard about Switch 2 sound absolutely awesome.

@sixrings, this whole patches thing is not the best scenario either, I think. I still think the Switch 2 should've had Switch technology inside it or whatever so that all Switch games could at least play as they do on the Switch. Everytime a new batch of Switch games starts working on Switch 2, I'm grateful that I don't have any of those games and have to deal with compatibility issues, and I feel sympathy for anyone whose games are affected by that.

I've said it somewhere else, and I'll say it again: while I'm not satisfied with the way NIntendo handles some parts of their business, there are people here acting as if they had become EA or Microsoft, which I find a bit silly.

@topsekret
honestly its been interesting in these topics learning more about the ins and outs of how aspects of games are measured and the details regarding how BC works.

while i don't have any way of measuring things like the latency myself i do have a couple of games i ended up double dipping on a physical copy so was able to play on both systems at once (mainly sonic mania and octopath 2) and while i didnt really notice a difference when using them side by side as i mentioned i didnt have any way of actually measuring it. (as for the inherant issue with things like Gamecube games on NSO i dont have the expansion pack but also remember hearing bad things about N64 games on switch 1 at least when they first launched, unsure if they were improved though as you mentioned those were issues with the emulation itself and not switch 2)

as for some of the issues with games compatibility im curious since while some firmware updates have improved issues with certain incompatible games from what i gather i am also curious if individual patches are done on the publishers side or not, i have heared of the klonoa issue and it does seem frustrating to see that some games with issues are still listed as compatible.

The handheld experience with Switch 1 games on Switch 2 isn't great, and although many games namely 1st party games will get updates to combat this, this does leave a big gap when it comes to many third party games.

It was immediately noticeable to me and some people probably don't care, but it was a large enough difference that I had to bring out the Switch 1 as someone who plays in handheld mode very often.

@ShonenJump121 for me while i didnt really notice any differences in controls (tried playing side by side) the visuals in games definitely had a noticeable difference due to being for a lower resolution screen and it does make me wish there was an option to run docked settings in handheld mode since a lot of games the touch screen itself can be ignored.

lol

You guys should look into writing those hilariously overblown YouTube video titles.

Has Nintendo lost its soul AND taken the souls of all its loyal customers?

Nintendo Switch 2 prices just got MORE INSANE in their blood-filled quest for PROFITS!

Nintendo’s CHARGING for tiny Switch 2 upgrades? THIS NEEDS TO STOP!