Topic: Who Killed Rare?

No, more of a tech demo to introduce you to how the Wii and it's motion controls work.

I never understood the appeal of Banjo Kazooie, it just seemed like a game for little kids... and people say Skylanders is for kids but I like that one.

So you're a hypocrite?

I'm not sure who killed Rare, but I would love to blame Microsoft. Xbox Live Avatars and Kinect Sports games just seem.... ugh.

Both these quotes get on my nerves. Super Smash Brothers is as much of a fighter as any of the other major fighting game franchises out there. Yes it was intended as kind of a fanservice party type fighting game, but the way Nintendo structured it gave it a lot more depth and skill than they anticipated and it quickly became a competitive fighting game.

Don't give anyone that bull that Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game when there are still tournaments held for Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Melee AND the original. "Party games with a fighting theme" tend to have little depth and little skill involved. The amount of skill it takes to competitively play the Smash Brothers games rivals or even extends above Tekken, Street Fighter and such.

Need further proof? Here's the tier list that is updated every 6-9 months because of the amount of tournaments held that constantly change the match-ups and tier placings of each character.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Tier_list

Shovelware refers to games that clearly took little time to make with hardly any imagination involved. Both Wii Sports had a clear vision of what it wanted to do and executed it well so it is indeed not shovelware, plus like stated above, it served to showcase the Wii's abilities.

rare was awsome donkey kong 64 banjo kazooie pefrect dark and yes ima say it star fox adventure but microsoft no they screwed up banjo kazooie kameo was ok perfect dark sucked dont get me started with kinect sports rare say bye to microsoft and go back to nintendo make them platformers like u ust 2

@abHS4L: Smash Brothers is a party game. At best, it is a party game that you can play like a traditional competitive fighting game, but only by heavily altering the way it was meant to be played in the first place. ...such as changing it to be 1 on 1 vs. the default free-for-all, removing all items and special smash ball things, and playing in a plain, non-intrusive environment.

I've hosted plenty of "Smash Brothers tournaments" for kids of all ages and various competitive levels and allowed them to do their thing while I'd quietly play Street Fighter and other various traditional fighting games off to the side. Some of the better players ended up playing Street Fighter with me while waiting for their turns against others and I'm proud to say I've converted quite a few of them to playing actual fighting games...and they've become quite good at them. Smash is more accessible to novices sure, but it's hardly on the same level as various Street Fighter games, it's like...a fighting game with training wheels. It's a good place to start learning things like timing, eventually, you can apply timing elsewhere and learn how to employ psychology (aka mindgames which are far more important in my opinion) in your matches in other fighting games.

You shouldn't be bothered by hearing people say Smash is a party game. In my experience, when people would call Smash a party game around more serious Smash Brothers players, they wouldn't bother defending it...cause it is a party game! They'd just shrug and go back to playing.

Just because it's more accessible to novice players doesn't make it any less of a fighting game. It's like calling Super Street Fighter iV 3D not a fighting game since it was made to be more accessible to novice players. If anything, Smash Brothers is a fighting game with great customization, something most fighting games don't have. Just because there are items and 4 players doesn't make it a party game. Ask anyone who owned a Dreamcast and ask them if Power Stone 2 was a party game and they'd tell you it's a fighting game and that game has much less depth and skill required than Smash Brothers.

Saying Smash Brothers is hardly on the same level as Street Fighter is like saying Fable is hardly an RPG compared to Skyrim, or GoldenEye is hardly a shooter compared to Call of Duty or Battlefield. Or even saying Tekken or Dead or Alive isn't on the same level as Virtua Fighter because Virtua Fighter requires far more skill and precision as Tekken or DoA. Better yet, saying Mario Kart isn't a racing game compared to Forza or Gran Turismo because really, it's a party game with racing elements right? If that's your argument for Smash Brothers than the same should apply to MarioKart but I'm sure there are tons of gamers begging to differ.

The reason I'm bothered because it's not true.

lol elitist gamer

Who killed Rare you ask?

...........................................

YOUR MOTHER

Well, Mario Kart isn't exactly a pure racing game, it's part of the "kart racing" genre which it popularized... and yea, it happens to be a fun party game too. It is designed to be a party game, like Smash Brothers is. It isn't meant to be a traditional racing game and doesn't make it one just because you decide to turn off the items and disable the various track gimmicks. ...but it's a darn fun party game as it is and it gets the job done.

Also, I was praising the accessibility of Smash Brothers for novice gamers and the benefit of having a simplified, stripped down setup. ...and I was trying to say, you shouldn't let it bother you that everyone calls it a party game, it's designed to be one. ...and it's fun, so who cares... there's no need to defend it as a hardcore fighting game, it's not.

...I'm not gonna mention anything else about this cause it's pretty off topic and if you don't get what I'm saying after this, you just don't want to hear it.

I get what you're saying, but a party game tends to refer to games that rather have no real aim than to entertain a party, which is why it's called a party game, like Mario Party. Both MarioKart and Super Smash Brothers, and I'm going to go ahead and even add in Wii Sports, all have clear focuses and that is the genre each of them belong in. Sure all are great in a party setting, but considering how competitive both MarioKart and Smash Brothers are make them exactly what they are, racing and fighting games. But anyways, like you said we're off topic so I'll just leave it at that.

@abHS4L: I really didn't want to respond again, but I have to point out that I don't have the same negative connotation to the term "party game" as it appears that you do and that could be what the problem here is. For me, "party game" isn't a dirty word. A "party game" is a fun, sometimes chaotic game designed to be played by a small group of people in the same room, at the same time.

Going off what you mentioned, almost any game can be played competitively, but I believe it is how it is designed to be played in the first place that is how it should be classified...and going by what I understand party games to be, games like Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and Wii Sports fit that category just perfectly. When played how they're designed, they're fun in groups and often times chaotic.

...and now to go back on topic, it sure would be awesome if Rare made a new Killer Instinct (traditional) fighting game. They apparently own the rights to it from what I learned from watching various videos online. ...someday maybe...

So what does that make Kinect Sports and Sports Champions (PS Move)?

Mario Kart isn't a racing game? The what the hell are Mario and friends doing in those karts? Mario Kart may not have any cars, but it's still a racing game at it's core.

Smash Bros. is a fighter at it's core, just made more fun and accessible to a wider audience.

Soul Calibur and Street Fighter play completely differently, yet they are still considered fighting games.

@Tendo: I'd respond, but you wouldn't bother reading anyway.

TL;DR: Why bother?

Smash Bros. is a fighting game at it's core. The only difference between Smash Bros. and a "traditional" fighting game is the mechanics for winning a match. In Smash Bros., you win a match by getting a ringout (knocking the opponent off the stage). In every other fighting game, you win a match by depleting the opponent's life bar. And the concept of ringouts was also done in Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive, both of which are fighting games.

Wii Sports is a sports game. Mario Kart is a racing game. Zelda is an action/adventure game. Kirby is a platformer. Xenoblade is a JRPG.

You really need to learn how to correctly use "it's", tendoboy.

I completely agree with Sykotek. A party game might be based on a genre, but it doesn't necessarily make it a "pure" example of the genre.

Did I not explain myself well enough?

In Mario Kart, you race around tracks, the same thing you do in Need for Speed, Gran Turismo, Forza, Burnout, etc. Mario Kart is a racing game. More specifically, it's (it is) an arcade-style racing game, just like Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing, ModNation Racers, etc. Just because it has go-karts instead of cars doesn't make it any less of a racing game. Look at Blur, that game was heavily inspired by Mario Kart (racing with weapons), and it had cars.

In Smash Bros., you fight opponents to knock them off the stage (known as a "ringout" in other fighting games). The "ringout" concept was also done in Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive, and they are also fighting games. Smash Bros. may have different play mechanics compared to traditional fighting games, but does that make it any less of a fighting game? Does every fighting game have to be two opponents facing off with a lifebar above their heads?

There are 3D fighters (Soul Calibur, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Power Stone, Virtua Fighter), there are 2D fighters (Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, BlazeBlue), and then there are 2D/3D hybrids (some versions of Mortal Kombat, Smash Bros.).

Who cares if a game has party elements in it? Mario Party is a virtual board game with party elements (the minigames), yet it's (it is) still a board game at its core. You people throw around that "party game" term like it's (it is) derogatory.

Enough with this arguing over what type of game is right or wrong. I'm getting really fed up with it. Let's just all enjoy our games and hope the world doesn't end in December.