Topic: Everything Star Wars discussion thread| How you doing, you old pirate?

@ToadBrigade

I want it to distance itself from the sequels, most certainly. But not from the original trilogy. That's what I like about this show the most.

It feels like the original star wars trilogy mixed with Joss Whedon's Firefly. That's basically what this is, and I'm totally on board with that.

@Octane,

They planned a "cinematic universe" for Star wars, but since Solo was a flop they decided to push the pause button. And now it seems they still do this universe, but more in series. The Darth maul tease was interesting, but as I said the movie flopped (and people didn't like the young Han Solo, I didn't like him either), but they liked the young Lando. So I can see them explore this "Maul" idea in a young Lando series, but we'll see.

I finished The Mandalorian a couple of weekends ago, and I thought it was really good. I also thought the cameos were pretty cool and fit into the story as well, which was even cooler. Whether it was the cameos I knew about (Boba Fett, Ahsoka) or the cameos I didn't know about (Luke), I was still really excited about the cameos and the season in general.
I also have a couple of questions about upcoming Star Wars "projects?
1. When is the Rogue Squadron movie taking place (timeline-wise)? I'm asking because I know it's after the Rebellion era (i.e after 4, 5, & 6), but I'm not sure if it's like 5 years after ROTJ (like Squadrons and The Mandolorian), or closer to the Sequel Trilogy timeline? The X-Wing in the Rogue Squadron makes it hard to determine the time period as well
2. Can someone please tell me what the heck is going on with the EA Star Wars exclusively deal? 🤔
I showed a couple of my friends the Lucasfilm Games article that was on here a few days ago, and one of them said something about how the EA Star Wars deal was over all of a sudden. I even tried looking it up, but I conflicting articles about whether the deal was cut early or not.
EDIT: I know the Ubisoft Star Wars game was announced a couple of days ago, but I didn't think about that meant that the EA contract was over, as LEGO Star Wars: Skywalker Saga was announced at E3 2019, and I didn't hear people say that the EA contract was over then (or if there was anyone, it was probably a small group of people). 🤔

1. We don't know a thing about Rogue Squadron. My assumption is that it'll be before Episode IV, exploring the origins of the different factions of Rogue Squadron like Red and Gold before Luke is brought into the picture but this film is likely quite a ways off since all they have right now is a director and that's it

2. EA doesn't have complete exclusivity over Star Wars games anymore. LEGO's agreement was probably completely seperate due to them making LEGO licensed games for years and their rights still remaining to produce Star Wars sets. Ubisoft's game is the first time a major AAA company outside EA will be making a game using the IP since EA acquired the license initially

@SM3DASislit Rogue Squadron is likely to be set after RotJ. The X-Wing silhouette in the logo looks like a model used by the New Republic (the same ones seen in the sequel movies). So, if that's actually the case, it could be set anywhere from during the same time as The Mandalorian to after Episode IX.

EAs license expires 2023. Details on what's happening now are conflicting and speculation. LEGO had a separate deal for their games and were exempt from the EA exclusivity deal.
It's not clear about the details for Ubisoft. If they're just starting, the game is likely not even coming out until after the EA deals ends. If the deal is worded as such that only EA can release Star Wars games, that doesn't mean Ubisoft can't start development on one to release after the deal or to be ready with one as soon as the deal expires. This seems most likely to me, as with this kind of technicality, EA can still hold exclusivity and no deals were actually broken while other studios start development for post-EA Star Wars.

@SM3DASislit EA's exclusivity ends in two years, the newly announced game from Ubisoft likely won't come out before 2023 as a result. EA's deal wasn't cut short AFAIK. However, they are moving towards a more open approach to Star Wars licensing. So in theory any company could pitch a Star Wars game and get to make one. Ubisoft seems to be one of the first. EA of course can also continue making Star Wars games if they are greenlighted by Disney. That's how I understand it.

I'm just basing it on the fact that at no time during that scene did I get the sense I was watching Mark Hamill return as Luke Skywalker. That's all I'm really interested in.

When they did the Vader scene at the end of Rogue One, they'd obviously gone to appropriate lengths to get the actor inside the Vader costume to move in the style of Vader in TESB - it was very convincing and in that sense, if you watched the two films side by side with no knowledge of when they were made, you could easily believe it was the same actor inside the costume for both films. That's what made the end of Rogue One the success that it was - to us 30-40 somethings we were seeing the Vader from the original trilogy, back in action and kicking ass like we'd always dreamt but barely seen.

At no point in the Mandolorian scene did I feel I was seeing original trilogy Luke Skywalker - I was seeing a Luke Skywalker stand-in, and some cringeworthy CGI. We can sit and speculate that in the time between RotJ and The Mandolorian Luke adapted his lightsaber technique, honed it, added finesse, whatever... but if they don't find a way of capturing some recognizable physical similarities in the way he moved then there's a disconnect for the audience, at least from my perspective.

I get that this can seem incredibly picky to some general enthusiasts, but my attachment to Star Wars is quite heavily based on the individual characters, and in the Mandolorian scene I felt I was watching a generic Jedi with a Luke Skywalker skin.

These are all my first impressions, as I've only watched it once.

I always found Darth Vader fighting cringe myself.

Either you all have way too high standards, or you're just complaining for the sake of it. I personally don't have any issues with the CGI representations in Rogue One and the Mandalorian. Darth Vader in Rogue One was fine as well.

Now, can someone tell me why every Clone Trooper (with a mask) was CGI in the prequels?

Darth Vader was great in Rogue One, savage and precise, showing what a threat he is. It's a shame he never did that in the originals and relied on awkwardly poking towards Obi Wan in the first film or force throwing furniture around in the others. I watched Star Wars decades after it originally come out so when I finally see a lightsaber fight I was disappointed as they were kinda boring to be honest. They don't really compare to some of the great movie sword fights of all time which is what I was expecting with all the Star Wars hype.

For all of people's complaints about the non-original films they managed to get lightsaber fights looking great and not enough credit is given to them for it.

Honestly I'll have to agree on the Luke point. He looked ok in motion with the hoodie on but as soon as he took it off he had a serious case of uncanny valley to me. It's also why I wasn't completely sold on Tarkin in Rogue One. They look like video game NPCs

Perhaps you could do with a rewatch. Duel in the carbon freezing chamber? No furniture throwing. Duel outside just before the revelation? No furniture throwing. Entire Throne Room scene in RotJ? No furniture throwing. There's just a single sequence in the whole trilogy that involves furniture throwing.

The lightsaber fights in the original trilogy are primarily about the history between the two characters. Praps you prefer a more actiony bent to your films, but the best duels in the saga are in the original trilogy in my book, because of the dialogue exchanges and the emotional/narrative weight they carry. If flashy somersaults are your thing then sure, go watch spinny Yoda in AotC etc.

Even the Darth Maul fight in TPM, while having some fancy moves and a cool double-ender, lacks emotional weight because there's not been any strong relationship establishment beforehand. If it wasn't for the one-in-a-million John Williams score that accompanies it, that fight wouldn't really earn its screen time.

@TheFrenchiestFry
I thought it was going to be after Episode VI, based on the articles I saw about the Rogue Squadron movie. Your assumption is a pretty good theory, as we had Rogue One and Rebels based on the same timeframe, and we have (at least) one upcoming series within that same timeframe as well.

@Shadowthrone
I was thinking it was going to be based after RotJ as well. I'm kind of confused by your statement, as the X-Wings in 4, 5, & 6, have two ion engines on each side, while the ones in the sequel trilogy only have one ion engine on each side. I'm also confused because Squadrons takes place 5 years after RotJ (IIRC), and the X-Wings have two ion engines. The X-Wings in Mandolorian also have two ion engines and it also takes place 5 years after ROJT. So, if they going to do it, with the "new" X-Wings, it would have to be right before TFA, or sometime after that.

@TheFrenchiestFry, @Shadowthrone, @Octane
I know that the EA deal expires in two years, which was why I was confused about what was going on, but thanks for letting me know anyways, though. I believe LEGO can also get away with their separate contract is because LEGO Star Wars is considered a "causal" Star Wars game, and EA only has the rights to make "core" Star Wars games (IIRC). I was also thinking that Ubisoft's game wouldn't release until 2023 because of the contract, even if it's totally ready to go before then.
I have to say, Ubisoft making the Star Wars before the contract I feel like is really bending the rules, unless it's like Shadowthrone said, where it might be that games can only be released by EA until 2023, but other developers can still make games before then.

Also, thanks for letting me know, and for responding quickly to my questions.

@gcunit I agree with what you're saying.....mostly. Two stand out for me in the prequels.
The Episode 1 duel is flashy, but I always liked it from Mauls point of view. He's finally been unleashed and revealing himself to the Jedi in what he thinks is going to be a duel that marks him as a genuine threat that the Jedi will fear. Ray Park did a good job of conveying someone unleashing previously contained skill and rage.

And Episode 3. The Obi-Wan/Vader duel. There is clear history here and I think it did a good job of showing just how powerful Vader is as he succumbs further to the dark side. The fight is very one sided almost the entire time, with Vader always on the offensive and Obi-Wan just doing what he can to defend himself against his former friend and student who he knows full well overpowers him. Obi-Wan only wins because of an advantage in position and Vader being overconfident when at disadvantage.
Say what you want about Hayden, I think he did a good job here (dialogue aside) and I always feel the history between him and Ewan when they're fighting. Their movements, their faces and eyes all show these are former friends fighting. Personally, I think this duel would be a lot better with more of the dialogue cut and letting the fight and actors portray the weight of it.

Otherwise, I agree the OT duels have more behind them than anything else in the prequels and sequels where it was more flash between people who had no real history between them.

@Octane Sometimes the Clone Troopers without masks were CGI too. At least the bodies were. You can tell particularly in Episode 3 with Commander Cody. It's either the scene before Obi-Wan goes to Utapau or when he's giving the saber back to Obi-Wan that his body movement doesn't match his head.

@gcunit In regards to emotional weight against action of the dual fight why does it have to be one or the other, there’s been plenty of films that did both. It’s not even something like special effects which has required advancement in tech as sword fights have been around since the last early days of film.

Good writing/dialogue can make a scene (although I don’t particularly rate Stars Wars for its dialogue) but it doesn’t create good action as evident by the slow pokey fights ;p

@jump Allow me to suggest you compare the Alec Guiness (filmed c. 1976, aged c. 62) fight in A New Hope to the Christopher Lee (filmed c. 2001, aged c. 78) fight in Attack of the Clones. I don't think it's very fair to say that the duel in the original film wasn't limited by the FX technology available to them in 1976. Being able to paste an old man's head onto a younger man's body kinda helps when trying to make dynamic looking fight scenes.

@gcunit that’s a bad example as I said a good fight but point taken how you could CGI it to make it better.
However there’s plenty of old movie tricks like doubles, quick edits etc could have been used to make the boring fights not boring, especially since Obi Wan has his hood up and Darth Vader in a mask anyway.

Actually thinking about Mark Hamill is older than Alec Guinness in The Last Jedi and that fight is far more cinematic.

If we're comparing the Star Wars films from the 70s to other action films with swords, please can we have actual examples from the same era ....? There's been a lot of action films since the original trilogy, for them to learn things about it all

There were a lot of practical effects in the prequel series. I do miss the authentic practical effects of the eighties though, it might have blunted the immersion somewhat

@BruceCM Well Star Wars itself drew inspiration from 50s Samurai films like the Seven Samurai if you’re looking for an example but I disagree with there’s been huge advancements in films besides the floppy CGI Yoda which GC mentioned. They have largely stayed the same since it’s a practical thing which relies on choreography and sword fighting itself has become less in vogue. I suppose you could argue more time has been spent on similar actions scenes in recent movies thanks to bigger budgets but Star Wars still has pokey lightsabers at each other which is more limited than the classic swashbuckling movies from the time 40s.