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Topic: Everything Star Wars discussion thread| How you doing, you old pirate?

Posts 681 to 700 of 1,089

Dezzy

JohnBlackstar wrote:

I actually really loved the new characters going in to The Last Jedi and left hating all of them.

I went in being fairly positive about them. I thought it was obvious in Force Awakens that they hadn't come up with much of a role for Finn, but Poe and Rey could've easily become far better characters in this if they hadn't used them to teach the lessons of "Don't worry, you're already awesome at everything and have already beaten the only remaining villain in a duel." and "Try and do better at guessing what your superior's plans are, even though they easily could've told you."

[Edited by Dezzy]

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

KAI_MIDORIKAWA

You know, I rewatched Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars and the Force Unleashed game-movie I have on my laptop, and The Force was just as OP in those as they were in TLJ. I also rewatched the prequels and The Force was completely UP in those.

Honestly, the Force should be on the kind of level it was in Empire. Just right.

DarkRula

The Force is basically like imagination. It's only limited by the limitations you place.
Empire was showing the basics of the Force, so it was keeping things simple. Genndy's Clone Wars series, and even Force Unleashed, were about showing the Force at the height of its power, so naturally many over the top uses of it were seen. The Last Jedi, with a theme of letting go of the past to head for the future, used the Force in new ways but still with the feeling that it was similar. At least until the end with Luke, which is when the entire film had basically said 'this is now the future'.
So in a way, the Force is limited by what the story wants its theming to be.

DarkRula

SilverEdge92

Battle Meditation, the Thought Bomb, Darth Traya's controlling three lightsabers, Plo Koon's Electric Judgment, Kazdan Paratus' Junk golems, there's no shortage of unique, creative uses of the Force in Legends continuity, which brings us back around to Luke and why so many of us have a problem with his portrayal here.

I realized something a few days ago: we've seen Luke deal with the Kylo situation (or something akin to it) before in Legends canon--Jedi Knight II: Jedi Academy's Dark Side ending, a game that came out 15 years ago at this point (or 14 and some change, perhaps I should say). There Luke doesn't hesitate to admit his mistake, that he misjudged Jaden (the MC)'s character, but he doesn't just shut down, pack up, and call it quits because of that. He consoles Kyle, who flirts with the perspective espoused by TLJ Luke, and actually dissuades him from it.

These things reinforce something I've felt and have been saying from the very beginning: I don't know how much these new writers reference Legends material, either for consistency's sake or simply for research purposes, but clearly they ignore it at their own peril.

[Edited by SilverEdge92]

SilverEdge92

SilverEdge92

I'd also argue that the notion of "letting go of the past for the sake of the future" is precisely the wrong take-away to get from this film.

"Let go of the past; kill it if you have to," is a temptation offered by Kylo Ren, the villain, and ultimately a character at war with himself because deep down in his heart he knows the difference between right and wrong, the difference between Light and Dark, and merely WANTS to do wrong (perhaps for reasons yet to be fully revealed) while his conscience tells him, screams at him to do otherwise. Remember, in the end, the Jedi texts are shown to be safely in the Falcon implying that Rey took them with her before she left Ahch-To, thereby insuring that the next generation of Jedi won't be wholly self-made, and ignorant of and divorced from the foundational wisdom of their forebears.

SilverEdge92

jump

Dezzy wrote:

. I thought it was obvious in Force Awakens that they hadn't come up with much of a role for Finn, "

I thought Finn had the potential to be the most intresting of all of the new characters, but they just seemed to rush him. He freed himself to quickly/easily from the Stromtrooper mindsight, could of played up the dead Stromtropper as being his friend and the close of the arc (from Stromtrooper to deserter to rebel hero) by defeating the Captain sparkle trooper seemed throwaway.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812

SilverEdge92

@MarcelRguez Knowledge of Legends continuity may not be necessary in order to draw conclusions about Luke's character, however those who have it simply have one more reason to be dissatisfied with his portrayal here along with the reasons the movie itself presents. Star Wars didn't just end when Ep. VI's credits rolled; the series didn't just go on hiatus for all the years between then and now. One's knowledge and experience with Legends will invariably influence their reception to what the new canon puts forward to some degree. Like I said before, I don't know much the new writers interact with Legends material while these scripts are being written, but they do themselves no favors by thinking it doesn't matter and they have free reign to do whatever, (if that's what they really think). Johnson thought he was being novel by putting Luke in a situation he's never been in before; anyone who's played Jedi Academy should recognize that that's not true.

Secondly, I guess the question to ask is: just what is "letting go of the past" actually supposed to mean? My understanding of Kylo's viewpoint is that everything that happened in the past is meaningless so do your best to ignore it and pretend it didn't happen, which is a far cry away from the essence of Luke's change of heart--what's done is done and he can't take it back, but his mistake is no longer the burden he originally made it out to be. And hope has always been a theme of the series; if there is hope for the Resistance, and the galaxy as a whole, then why can't there be hope for Jedi? And if the texts truly are "all that remain" of the previous Jedi tradition, then they need to be protected for their immense historical significance just much as the writings of any long-forgotten culture should. Rey's preserving the texts could simply be one more way for her to get know the legacy of which she's now a part; it does not at all mean that the Order will or must carry on exactly as it did in the pre-Empire days without the necessary reforms taking place. That's the entire point of history as an endeavor, learning from the examples of the past, doing better in the areas they fell short, and carrying on with what they got right. "You can't know where you're going without first knowing where you came from," as the saying goes.

(And by the way, how do you do italics on here? I tried copy-pasting from Word before, but it didn't keep my formatting.)

SilverEdge92

Dezzy

Has anyone ever explained at what point Stormtroopers stopped being clones of Jango Fett?

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Octane

@Dezzy Some time before the events of Rogue One / A New Hope. The clone troopers had deficiencies as a result of cloning; accelerated aging etc., so they were abandoned in favour of regular trained soldiers. That's the excuse they came up with at least, that's what you get if you don't plan your prequels ahead and you find out it doesn't line up with the original material.

On a completely unrelated note. When is the super bowl in the US? I've heard rumblings that a trailer for the Solo film will drop. Sunday evening? Either way, it's confirmed we get to see the trailer on Monday as well.

Octane

ThomGee

@Octane The Super Bowl is on Sunday evening in the U.S. for pretty much the whole night, the pre-show begins around 5 or 6 P.M. and the post-show ends at midnight.

ThomGee

My Nintendo: ThomGee

gcunit

A decent teaser. My interest is increasing...

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit

gcunit

It's kind of got 'generic reboot' written all over it, but throw in a few Chewbacca and Tie Fighter roars and I'm sold

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit

Octane

@gcunit It has a Blade Runner vibe to it, and it feels a lot like Rogue One. And I liked that one.

Octane

Dezzy

I don't know if it was the effect of the Last Jedi or something but I seem to have no desire at all to watch that movie.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Octane

@Dezzy I like Rogue One, I hope this one is more like Rogue One. I'm willing to give it a chance. And I don't think they can screw a story like this up. Rian Johnson isn't anyway near it either.

@MarcelRguez Well, it would be too obvious if they started marketing this film during the TLJ, then everyone would know they're milking it as much as they can. I think that's why we hadn't seen a trailer up until now.

Octane

Octane

@MarcelRguez If they weren't able to put a trailer together two or three months ago, the film wouldn't even come out in May.

Octane

Octane

@MarcelRguez You mean the switch of directors last year? That's not uncommon in the industry. Creative difference, so they picked another director to warp up the filming and re-shoot some scenes. I believe the original directors wanted to turn it more into a comedy, and after TLJ, I'm glad they're gone.

Octane

Octane

@MarcelRguez Well, you know what they say, a film is made two times, first during filming, and then during editing. They usually film way more than they ever need, the new director came in when most of it still had to be filmed, and they scheduled an extra five week for re-shooting. It's not something I'm overly worried about.

Octane

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