@Haru17 That's just one example. But indeed, it's implied he's past of the main cast. The original trilogy had a bunch of them, and I don't remember their names (except for Tarkin who got a bigger role in Rogue One), but in the new trilogy? Yeah, it's Kylo, Hux, Snoke and a bunch of nameless troopers and commanders.
A lot of people have a LOT of issues with The Last Jedi (and rightfully so - Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy made a pretty horrid Star Wars movie).
One thing that I saw people complaining about was the "string" GPS that they used to find the rebels once they went into hyperspace. People were saying that was a plothole in the franchise. But....Boba Fett used a tracking device to find the Millenium Falcon. Princess Leia even mentions in A New Hope that "They're tracking us, it can be the only reason for the ease of our escape." And Han says, "Not this ship, sister!" So, I don't see why people are all upset that they used some sort of GPS tracking device in The Last Jedi. Am I wrong in thinking this way???
The only reason I'm going back to see this a 2nd time is because Santa brought me a gift card to the movies so I can see it for free. Also, I fell asleep four times during my initial viewing, lol.
@bezerker99 Firstly, I'll just point out that these sorts of 'issues' don't particularly concern me, I don't watch Star Wars for the 'science' or pay much attention to those minor plot devices, so I don't have any issue with the lightspeed tracking in TLJ anyway.
But secondly, just to clear up your wonderings, when Boba Fett tracks the Falcon in TESB, the Falcon's hyperdrive isn't working, which is the whole reason they go to see Lando in Bespin - they can't get away from the Empire when they escape Hoth because the hyperdrive's not working, so they're forced to go into the asteroid field (against odds of 3,720 to 1), hide inside the space worm, hide on the back of the Star Destroyer, float away with the trash, limp to Lando's... that's the whole driver behind that arm of the film... broken hyperdrive.
In A New Hope, we don't actually see how they get to Yavin once they've escaped the Death Star.
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
Might even be my favorite film of the franchise. No other SW film has had such clear and direct theming since Empire.
What exactly were the themes? The only ones I could notice seemed to be "Get rid of anything that's old" and also Poe's whole little "You should blindly trust authority figures because sometimes they have a plan." lesson. Oh and then there was that "Trying to be a hero and making an entirely legitimate sacrifice is bad" part with Finn at the end.
The greatest theme was - Milk your local creatures. Find one with prominent udders especially animals that flaunt them for your milking pleasure. Then enjoy that milk. Let it dribble and then cascade down your chin (bearded chin optional). Feel the unpasteurized milky pleasure soaking your face and clothing. Give a nearby training Jedi a "you think this milk is hot, young lady?" look. It will be hot too since it is straight from the animals glands.
@Dezzy The demitification of heroes (through their failures) is the main one. Runs through the movie with multiple characters, the obvious one being Luke. Finn and Rose's first encounter is a comedic early take on it. Kylo and Rey's relationship with Luke is another obvious one, both are disappointed in Luke, just like how Luke has lost his faith in the Jedi dogma. Rey's parentage is another exteme example. Finally, downplaying the "uniqueness" of Force users during the movie (especially with that kid at the very end) serves this theme as well.
Yeah I guess that's an accurate account of what they were doing. I just think those are mostly bad messages (especially for this genre) and they were also done terribly.
First of all, it's a fantasy space opera. You can't actually do it without heroes. Which they obviously couldn't and don't even try to. All they end up doing is ruining both Han and Luke and then trying to replace them with significantly inferior versions of the exact same characters in Rey and Poe.
Rey basically plays the same role as Luke but also happens to be the least realistic character in movie history and is so obviously the product of someone at Disney stipulating that they needed a female lead rather than being a character that was actually created by the imagination of a writer.
Then Poe plays the same role as Han but is less important. His wins aren't as big and his losses aren't as big either. So that message about over-confidence has already been done a lot better with Han in the original trilogy. Poe's at least a vaguely realistic person though.
Finn doesn't even come into that either because he never comes across as remotely important to anything that's happening and seems to just randomly jump between a serious action role and their new Jar Jar Binks.
As far as I can see, they're all character-driven narratives. So not sure what the difference is supposed to be. Saying it's a character-driven narrative says nothing about whether he's meaningful to the larger story or not. Rey's part is character-driven too. But despite being a terrible character, she's essential to the story. Finn isn't at all. You could easily remove him from the entire thing.
What is the reason you think the "professional" movie critics liked it though? It's very bizarre how little they represented the audience on this movie.
Yeah that's a useful distinction for the types of subplot but it's a bit fuzzy because you can easily have subplots that develop characters AND move the main story forward. That one in Empire doesn't happen to because once they leave the asteroids they're straight back to the same situation they'd just left. Whereas they could've chosen to have it so that they successfully escape during that scene, so it would've changed the main story as well.
Not sure about your stuff on critics. I bet they do have online discussions. And I also think the audience cares HOW something is told. Not sure what counts as "formal" in that context though. You talking about like cinematography or something like that? Cos yeah I don't think the hardcore fans care about that much compared to characters, lore, plot.
Nicely designed visual spectacles can easily get overwritten for hardcore fans by the ridiculous revelation that dead force ghosts can still use the force or lightspeed can be used as a weapon.
Yeah no I agree on the first point. I didn't make that argument about the casino scene myself.
My point was just that Finn seems generally pointless. They could've cut him out of the movie entirely and had more time left over for developing other characters. I think having too many characters has been a problem for these new ones.
And yes the prequels were bad for that reason too. It annoys me more with these new ones because I cared about Han and Luke more than I cared about how good an explanation they gave for Vader. And I think the prequels also made up for Anakin being generally awful by having the emperor rising to power story being quite well done.
dead force ghosts can still use the force
Not less believable in any way, shape or form than the existence of ghosts in the first place. And if you look hard enough, I'm sure there's precedent in the EU.
lightspeed can be used as a weapon
If anything, this is the one thing that makes hardish sci-fi sense in Star Wars, and not space stations blowing up in a huge fire explosion in the middle of space. Or laser swords. Or Basic. If you can accept that ships can move faster than light through wormholes, I'm sure there's room enough in that suspension of disbelief to accommodate the concept of FLT travel being destructive at short range.
Not the point. It's fantasy made-up nonsense. Of course they could have it so it was possible within the never-explicitly-explained metaphysics of the universe.
The point was that both of these things would've been used constantly in earlier movies if they were possible.
Take the whole scenario in Empire in which Han and the gang hide inside and asteroid only to be eaten by a giant spaceworm without them even realizing it. That entire scene doesn't move the plot forward at all, doesn't really grant the audience character moments that can lead to development later on and doesn't introduce any elements that might be plot-relevant either.
Some would argue that the development of Han and Leia's relationship inside the space worm does provide character moments that can be developed later on, given that this is where Han and Leia first kiss.
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
That said, and unlike the other scenario from which I compared it to, it doesn't happen because of the situation. The scenario is not tailored to make that moment happen as a response, it could have happened at any other place.
Some would argue it happens precisely because of the situation.
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
@Dezzy If they cut Finn even just from before he leaves the fleet onward, DJ (Del Toro's character) wouldn't have an introduction (I believe he'll reappear on the next episode), Rose's backstory would feel entirely out of context, Finn wouldn't have a face-off with Phasma and, more importantly,
That's a happy coincidence because all 3 of them could easily be cut too.
Although the silver lining was to hear youtuber Razorfist name Del Toro's character "Latino Calrissian"
Fire explosions and laser sounds in space. Yes they're silly and it doesn't help the realism of space battles, but at least these added effects don't intervene with the strategic manner of Star Wars space battles. The lightspeed collision raises a lot of questions, shouldn't all great assault ships be taken down with light speed? Could this have been done with the Executor? (The head of republic operation in the Empire Strikes Back) Sure the Lightspeed sacrifice was an impressive moment, but it seems to be messing with the somewhat established guidelines of space warfare.
Also I don't mind the Force being used in new exciting ways. But they're definitely overdoing it. I wouldn't be surprised if Rey started flying in the next movie... is it a bird?? is it a space ship?? No it's a Jedi!!
A piece of the Triforce appeared before you! (>'.')> ▲ Touch it now!
My favourite silly thing that someone pointed out is after the completely absurd moment where Rose stops Finn sacrificing himself, he drags her unconscious body all the way down that battlefield (they were at the far end of it when they crashed) on a material that we've just been shown turns red when pressure is applied to it. So he somehow pulls her past all of the ATATs without being noticed while creating a very suspicious red trail across the ground. Lol
It's not meaningless at all. "Easily" obviously has something to do with how much they're connected to the main plot and how much screentime they have.
Han is connected up with loads of main plot points after he's introduced and is probably on screen for about 2/3rds of the trilogy after being introduced. Not remotely true of any of those 3 characters.
The main difference is the that movie goers loved Han's character. People wanted to see him on screen and were cheering for him as he changed from smuggler cocky guy to a lovable fun character you could depend on. Audiences do not seem to have that affection for these new characters.
I actually really loved the new characters going in to The Last Jedi and left hating all of them.
The best thing about Rogue One is that now whenever I see the moon in daylight hours I instantly think 'Death Star!', do a sharp intake of breath, and then quietly under my breath say "You may fire when ready".
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
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