@NEStalgia We somewhat considered floppy disks old at the time compared to CD-ROM disks, but there was some practical use occasionally. We're talking mid to late 90s here.
The most CD swapping that I ever recall doing for something was Oregon Trail III as that game, ironically, came with three disks.
Currently playing: Pokemon Scarlet DLC, Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury (Switch)
@NEStalgia I'm still reading mountain from a molehill complaints here, my friend. There is no deep delving into options necessary. The number of steps to take to change unofficial options/settings manually, is the EXACT same as the number of steps you need to take to change the official ones that are in the standard settings. I don't care what Mozilla advertised or didn't advertise.
People mod all kinds of things, from consoles to cars, from houses to PC's, and suddenly, having to change a few settings in the developer menu of Firefox would be too big of a hurdle? Seriously, man. No offense, but that's just ridiculous. It's like saying: yeah, I know I asked for a solution, and I know it actually works as well, but I didn't want THAT solution. I wanted a plug and play one... Boohoo...
The most important point is that the options are there, within easy reach, for everyone, and most of the time, all it involves is changing a value from true to false, or the other way around, or adding a custom line. No astrophysicist experience required whatsoever...
So, if Joe Average should be able to do it, then I would definitely expect you to be able to take care of it. With one hand tied behind your back. And possibly putting your ear to your PC to hear if it has actually worked, afterwards...
@Tyranexx So, from your comments on it so far, do I have to assume that you have had to deal with stuff like that yourself, then?
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@ThanosReXXX It has nothing to do with how difficult the steps are or not. The point is it is not a default. It is not an easily findable presented non-default. It's "hidden" settings for those features that are critical to the whole point of "safe, secure, private" they advertise. What this means is that the overwhelming majority of Firefox users, including business are not getting a "safe, secure, private" experience, they're getting a Chrome-like experience. The majority of those users are not deep diving the config, finding obscure settings named for their object property not a user-facing description, so that only those in the know, only those looking for said settings, only those searching tech sites to find out about the settings are going to know they need them, know they exist, and know where to find them - meaning it's only a "safe, secure, private" browser for hardcore geeks in the know, not for the masses as presented. Defeating the entire point of the Mozilla Foundation from its inception. Worse, getting into said console requires clicking on an "I accept the risks!" click-wrap for "this may void your warranty." "Only continue if you are sure of what you're doing."
It's not about how many clicks it takes. It's about the where it is, how it's presented, who is realistically going to access it, and who isn't, and watching the browser that most of the user base is using gradually morph into just another Google/MS/Apple surveillance product, no doubt, intentionally. And it's not just me making a big deal out of it. A significant part of the kind of people who do deep dive into that menu that have been part of, or contributors to, Mozilla over the years, free-software advocates, etc, have been railing against these changes for years! Let alone all the add-on developers that abandoned ship when they FORCED moving to the Chrome add-on system and abandoning half of what made FF configurable. And atop all this, the mandatory signing of add-ons that cause the weekend nightmare, along with many, many other user choice settings don't exist even in the advanced config anymore. If they really don't want you to access something, they turn it off completely in the stable/release builds. The only way to get to them is to use the nightly builds. "User choice," indeed.
Did I mention Google sits on the board? Because Google sits on the board. Can you tell?
@ThanosReXXX It has nothing to do with how difficult the steps are or not. The point is it is not a default. It is not an easily findable presented non-default.
I'm going to try this one last time: IT... IS... NOT... A... DEEP... DIVE. And it IS easily findable. All it takes is typing "about:config" in the browser's address bar and you're there. My father could do it, and he's a complete noob where things like these are concerned.
It's "hidden" settings for those features that are critical to the whole point of "safe, secure, private" they advertise. What this means is that the overwhelming majority of Firefox users, including business are not getting a "safe, secure, private" experience, they're getting a Chrome-like experience. The majority of those users are not deep diving the config, finding obscure settings named for their object property not a user-facing description, so that only those in the know, only those looking for said settings, only those searching tech sites to find out about the settings are going to know they need them, know they exist, and know where to find them - meaning it's only a "safe, secure, private" browser for hardcore geeks in the know, not for the masses as presented. Defeating the entire point of the Mozilla Foundation from its inception. Worse, getting into said console requires clicking on an "I accept the risks!" click-wrap for "this may void your warranty." "Only continue if you are sure of what you're doing."
That disclaimer is of course nonsense, unless you're THAT stupid, that you REALLY don't know what you're doing. But the fact that you'd potentially be willing to go to that specific page, already indicates that your either willing OR able, or both, so I think it's safe to say that we can disregard that message, and just see it as similar to Windows' pop up messages asking you if you're sure that you want to close something, and then giving you another pop up to make sure that you're REALLY sure...
It's not about how many clicks it takes.
It is, if you're going to continue to whine about how difficult it is to get to, how much of a "deep" dive it is, and so on. None of which is true, so that was simply my point with that specific remark. What the hell is the difference if I have to flick a digital switch in a settings menu, or switch a value in a hidden menu that's just as easily accessible? Both take the exact same amount of steps, and both are equally easy to do. That one isn't instantly visible, is completely irrelevant. Just because you can't see a door knob, doesn't mean that the door can't be opened...
It's about the where it is, how it's presented, who is realistically going to access it, and who isn't, and watching the browser that most of the user base is using gradually morph into just another Google/MS/Apple surveillance product, no doubt, intentionally. And it's not just me making a big deal out of it. A significant part of the kind of people who do deep dive into that menu that have been part of, or contributors to, Mozilla over the years, free-software advocates, etc, have been railing against these changes for years! Let alone all the add-on developers that abandoned ship when they FORCED moving to the Chrome add-on system and abandoning half of what made FF configurable. And atop all this, the mandatory signing of add-ons that cause the weekend nightmare, along with many, many other user choice settings don't exist even in the advanced config anymore. If they really don't want you to access something, they turn it off completely in the stable/release builds. The only way to get to them is to use the nightly builds. "User choice," indeed.
Did I mention Google sits on the board? Because Google sits on the board. Can you tell?
Yeah.... okay. I'll agree on that last bit. I don't like Google meddling with it. I chose Firefox for a reason. Multiple reasons, actually. One of the more important reasons being that it's not Chrome, so if that is indeed what it's slowly turning into, then I'm probably going to stick to my outdated, non-Google infested version for the rest of my life.
Or I'll be looking out for another great alternative. Who knows, perhaps all these contributors that are now railing against all this, will come up with their own solution at some point. Perhaps a spiritual successor to the REAL Mozilla Firefox. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
Well, that's about all I have to say about it. Feel free to (strangely) disagree with my undeniable logic, as I'm all but pretty sure you will.
@AlohaPizzaJack Yeah, sorry for the tech rant. After having dealt with stuff like that all day in the office, it's probably not what you're looking for on a game site forum page. Maybe I'll put up a disclaimer beforehand next time...
@ThanosReXXX Typing the "cheat code" and hitting the accept through the "warning" to get to a list of cryptically named settings is a deep dive. Again its' not about how simple it is for me to do. It's about what percentage of the total Firefox user base will be doing that or even believes they should? Which is the point. They throw you a bone to shut you up, and keep stiffing the masses by speaking out both sides of their mouths. They'll live without your data. They have millions of others.
"t the fact that you'd potentially be willing to go to that specific page, already indicates that your either willing OR able, or both,"
That's kind of my point - most aren't! And Moz knows that.
"the difference if I have to flick a digital switch in a settings menu, or switch a value in a hidden menu that's just as easily accessible? "
There's a massive difference to any user that doesn't know that setting is there to begin with, and is uncomfortable with accessing menus walled behind "I accept the risks!" buttons. Which is most users. But worse is that the "private" browsing experience that they are telling most people they are downloading on the website requires doing all of that to actually receive...those settings should be default.DISABLING them should require the deep dive. I mean not only is telemetry on, "Studies" are on by default. That is, they can PUSH software to you that will run as a study to collect telemetry of the results from users. I'd call that a virus. From the "private" browser. That's in the user-facing privacy settings to disable. For now. I wonder what version they remove that and hide it in about:config as well? For a simplified user experience, of course. No need to bother the infant public with pesky questions about if you'd like to disable the perfectly safe, product improvement features!
It's not about what I can or can't do with it. It's what is slowly being forced on the entirety of the user base, with some tools still available for those "in the know" but what does being "in the know" matter if the end result is 90% of the planet still providing 4 companies every detail of everything they do? We don't need to be screwed personally. Unfortunately in the "connected world" if everyone else is a moron and gets screwed, we're swept in the tide with them and have to conform to the consequences of their failure. Instead we just look like crazy people shouted down for our tin foil hats, and in the end, all the effort was meaningless as we pay the price for their stupidity anyway.
@NEStalgia Pffff.... man, you're making it TERRIBLY hard for me NOT to textually beat the crap out of you...
I'm almost under the impression that you're about to grab your torch and pitchfork, and rally a march towards Mozilla HQ...
I guess that we can safely surmise from all we've discussed so far, is that you and I have a VERY different understanding of the term "deep dive"...
For me, it means that it would be necessary for someone to have a high skill level or understanding of the technical workings of software, and the manipulations of it. Accessing a menu that ANYONE can access at will, does NOT constitute that, much less simply having to click on a value to change it from true to false or the other way around.
That's not a deep dive, that's dipping a careful toe into the pool, making a virgin's effort into programming (if even that), nothing more, nothing less. And the how to's can be found all over the web, and on YouTube, with step by steps and pretty pictures for the real simpletons.
Heck, there's even completely free, and fully automatic add-ons that handle these things for you. I've got several installed, such as the targeted advertising cookie opt-out, for example.
And mind you, I'm no die-hard tech fanatic either, so if I can do it, with my average IT skills, then so should at the very least 50 if not 75% of all Firefox users. After all: it's the Firefox community itself that is helping to come up with these solutions for these very users in the first place.
We completely agree on the forced stuff bit, so let's drop that part. Like you, I don't want Firefox to turn into some kind of Chrome subsidiary.
Anyway, nuff said. I'm out. It's been a long day over here, so time for some more leisurely activities...
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
Exactly! The browser debate raged as our boy Anti has been playing a space shooter! Priorities, folks! 😜
Also, had to have my bank cancel my debit card this morning after finding one of those $1.00 phishing charges. Luckily the replacement should be here tomorrow, and all my bills are direct pay from my bank. I think only my NSO sub is recurring against a card, in September. I’ll have it just in time to get my truck back.
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