Topic: Games You Feel are Overrated

@Ralizah I think single player gaming as a whole has mostly moved past "tests of skill" (an arcade vestige) to "experiences." Especially as online competitive is a more "traditional" test of skill against other people versus programmed challenges to circumvent.

Galaxy was easy(ish) but Galaxy 2 I recall being controller cracking frustrating fairly often.

@CreamyDream Ah, I see. That's kinda true.

Read the statement again: "I replayed Galaxy recently, and the game is tough as nails in comparison to Odyssey."

My point isn't "Mario Galaxy is a tough game." It isn't. But, compared to Odyssey, it is reasonably challenging. Which is meant to emphasize how easy Odyssey is.

I disagree.

I don't consider those games to be "baby easy," so I don't know what to tell you. 3D Land and World are on the easier side, of course, but they still have a reasonable difficulty curve near the end.

That's because I consider Odyssey to be a much easier game. Too easy. Easier than I like, aside from a few moons. Even the last challenge level is MUCH easier than the challenge levels in Galaxy 2, 3D Land, and 3D World.

Nice to see you're content to ignore what I say and instead debate a strawman version of me that thinks and says things I've never thought and said.

And aside from some frustrating bonus levels, I quite liked the difficulty curve in Sunshine.

As I've said time and again, I like the game. I enjoyed my time with it. I continue to enjoy my time with it. There are just certain things that keep me from absolutely loving it versus really liking it. So there's no reason for me to "be a contrarian."

I think that, if there wasn't a big emphasis on motion controls , the difficulty was more in line with Sunshine, and there was a focus on fewer moons that are more engaging to collect, it'd probably be my favorite 3D Mario.

@CreamyDream I've been very consistent in what I've said. You just happen to disagree, which is fine by me. It would be nice if you'd grant me the same courtesy. Also, as I said, stop inventing points to knock down that I never made in the first place.

I don't think 3D Land is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than Odyssey. They're both easy games. If we're talking about the level of challenge when proceeding from beginning to end, though, I found 3D Land to provide a somewhat more challenging experience. Part of that is by design: SMO does away with the lives system and there is less of an emphasis on tricky jumps to complete a level. I just think SMO goes a bit too far in that direction at points.

The boss fights in SMO are among the easiest in any Mario game I've ever played. They're only challenging at all when the game forces you to fight all of them in a boss rush, as it's not unusual for the player to slip up and the boss to get a cheap hit in on them here and there. The same challenge would apply to a boss rush of 3D Land bosses, though.

And, as I said, the final unlockable level in 3D Land is quite a bit more difficult than the one in Odyssey. I don't think that's even a controversial opinion.

3D World, I would say, is substantially more challenging than Odyssey.

Yeah Odyssey is definitely over-rated. Ridiculously easy, sparse and the majority of the music is unmemorable as well. Galaxy had the right balance for me.

It's not really a point, Ralizah said nothing of the sort, you're making it up.

As opposed to "defending" Odyssey at all costs...

Edit: beaten to it.

@shaneoh I really liked the music in Odyssey. It's not as sweeping and wonderful as the music in the Galaxy games, but, you know, what is? Cascade Kingdom's theme is the closest this game came to the heights of Galaxy. I was really flabbergasted the first time I went to the Wooded Kingdom and that weird, 70's-esque stoner jam started playing.

Galaxy really nailed difficulty balancing, atmosphere, story, physics, level design, and motion control implementation, in my opinion.

Where Odyssey excelled was in its sense of creativity. It's the best part of the game. The last few Mario games have felt very safe, like Nintendo is just reaching from a familiar toybox again and again. Odyssey is VERY weird, though, in the same way SMB3 and SMW were weird.

It's also worth noting that the game looks AMAZING on the TV. Easily the most visually impressive game Nintendo has ever made.

As a gameplay experience, though, Galaxy and Sunshine still edge it out for me.

Tough as nails in comparison to Odyssey, not in its own right, like I said.

Probably. But not substantially easier. There's a very slight increase in challenge with Odyssey's bosses, but not enough to actually make most of them threatening.

Putting aside the Broodals, most of the unique bosses were easy as well (aside from Mecha Wiggler, which is the one really great boss fight in this game). They only posed any threat whatsoever when you fight their upgraded forms in the challenge paintings.

This is also balanced by the fact that the final fight with Bowser is pathetically easy in this game, whereas 3D Land's final Bowser encounter is arguably the most challenging in the series, requiring some tricky jumps and also being fairly drawn out, which, as you point out, makes it more of an endurance run.

I think they're fairly equal in this regard once you compare them fully.

I disagree. Being forced to replay a level full of platforming challenges is far more of a "punishment" than getting docked 10 coins and being sent back to the last checkpoint, especially when there is usually very little in the way of obstacles between each checkpoint. Maybe if you ignore checkpoints and die frequently in Odyssey, but that wasn't my experience.

And are we talking about 3D Land or 3D World? Because you referenced them both here. Did you mean to do that, or was that a typo?

10 coins is nothing in this game. You can gain that back in less than half a minute. Losing a life is a much more severe penalty.

Sure, it's more simple on a mechanical level, but there is more of an emphasis on precision platforming in 3D Land.

You can get through the bulk of Odyssey with some pretty basic jumps, so I disagree here.

Sure, but a game being simple doesn't necessarily make it easier. Some of the hardest games ever made are incredibly simple.

No, it means that 3D Land objectively has an easier easy mode. Nothing more.

You hit on it with that last part: there's really very little that's hard about the final challenge in Odyssey, it's just a longish slog that gives you more room for error. There's no one activity in it that really challenges you at all.

3D Land's final challenge requires expert platforming. It's shorter, yes, but also a more worthy test of skill. And, having played both games, I also found it to be far more challenging.

Whereas, to quote you, "Odyssey's is just longer."

I believe I've said multiple times that 3D Land is an easy game. I just don't think it's easier than Odyssey.

I was really looking forward to Odyssey, avoided spoilers for a couple of months prior to launch, and picked it up on release day.

5 weeks on and I've played less than 10 hours. I don't feel that need to play it.

Objectively.

Objectively what?

@Ralizah Wooded Kingdom is one of the best tracks in the game!

Outside of the Mario Odyssey talk... although after going into hype, bought it as fast as i can and finish it... I don't find much in me to try getting more moons afterwards (especially when my backlog now started to stare at me, and okami HD releasing in a few days and my work starting too, haha...)

I find that the Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth is... kind of good, and it's not bad of a game overall but. It just made me wish for a Digimon World game that is localized to somewhere I can play (I have watched the Digimon World Next Order, and it feels weak vs the Re:Digitize Decode which Bamco didn't even localize )

The two digimon being trained at once made me think it lost some focus, since it makes you feel to have two pets vs one, maybe it should be like, a choice for players (?) but then again that will play a lot to the difficulty so I guess nothing to do about it.

My hot take: Deus Ex: Human Revolution is overrated.

I'd heard great things about it, so I purchased Deus Ex classic to see if I liked it. I didn't. I loved it.

Fantastic world, systems, and level design. One of my easy top 10. Then I play HR.

It's good, but nowhere near as great as the original. That's really a problem with a ton of sequels, huh?

Valkyria Chronicles
Xenosaga I > Xenosaga II
All other Dragon Age > Dragon Age II
Devil May Cry > Devil May Cry 2
Final Fantasy X > Final Fantasy X-2
Legend of Zelda > Adventures of Link

Horizon: Zero Dawn is pretty overrated. The combat is incredibly boring to me.

I have't played it, but I hear the same on HZD.

Considering that Deus Ex is nearly the perfect game, it would be a tall order for any sequel to match it, let alone exceed it. Still, Human Revolution did feel pretty generic.

I've said it before but since I've just played through the "story" DLC, I'll say it again, botw is not all that once it's said and done, DLC included.

But other than that thankfully most of my opinions for major games seem to be in line with most others, so that's a relief for once.

Most modern FPS's...having a memorable story, meaningful difficulty levels, local co-op and competitive local multiplayer (amongst others) - all of which used to be staples of the genre - just seems like too much to ask for these days

Instead, we just get lumbered with unoriginal shooter after unoriginal shooter - each one almost indistinguishable from 10-or-so other games on the market - and each complete with its own uniquely toxic online community...and we, as players, either have to endure it or just find another genre of game to play altogether! **grumble grumble**

I just don't get any sort of buzz when I see a 'new' reveal for 'ToxicTeamShooter 7' or 'FacelessRobotManFightsAliens 9' or 'UniformedEverymanFightsInAHistoricalBattle 42' - give me something interesting!

I mean, jeez, the apparent 'Shooter of the Year' (PUBG) was an Early Access jankfest! ..if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the state of the genre, I don't know what will! ..but, sadly, I can almost guarantee that larger publishers are going to look at that game and think 'Ooo! Battle Royale must be the new #trend! We need to make one TEN of those!' rather than 'Ooo! Look! They came up with something kind of original and it caught on, maybe we should try doing that?!' (<- yes, yes you should!)

Aside from graphics and connectivity, the whole genre (with very few exceptions) just seems to have gotten stale and, frankly, gone backwards for the best part of a decade in my opinion...

_{(I hope that Nintendo try and make an original FPS of their own at some point, because they're one of the few publishers that actually seem to put creativity before marketability! ..I'd be so delighted to hear that Retro (for example) have been making their own, fresh, new FPS IP - because at least I'd actually have some confidence that it may be something distinctly different from anything else we've had to endure for the past few years! **fingers crossed!**)}

I tend to feel most sports games are overrated, along with a lot of first-person shooters like "Halo" and "Call of Duty". I also can't stand "Grand Theft Auto", which basically tells kids its okay to deal drugs, steal cars, and beat up random women because "its just a game".