Topic: Coronavirus outbreak

Cinema, restaurants etc will be back in a month or two but a lot of the independent ones may not be, overheads like rent don’t just disappear because of this and they don’t have the reserves like big chains do. What I’m most worried about is a lot of the independent music clubs/pubs I like will be suffering, a lot of landlords like turning these places into flats even before this.

@Ryu_Niiyama I'll keep your family in my prayers. Some people believe their god keeps them invincible for going to a church, synagogue, or mosque. My personal belief is God wants me in my church under normal circumstances, and He also wants me to have faith in Him, while using the sense He gave me. On that note, I can understand your uncle's mindset, though obviously he should be staying home. Whatever your uncle's faith is, many worship services are being held online, or at least pre-recorded. Maybe you can convince him to try that, as a temporary alternative. He might like it.

@ReaperExTenebris I totally agree about "best to do it safely". Some churches are also doing creative measures for people who do not have access to online, such as having limited-hours drive-throughs on Sunday, where from a distance, the congregation members can pick up a copy of that week's printed sermon, along with a person's "prayers, & concerns" being addressed by the pastor. Still other pastors are making phone calls, where possible. These times, & circumstances are bringing out some creativity, though some ideas are not as good as others.

@ReaperExTenebris "there's definitely ways to follow your religious practices while still adhering to safety protocol." Yes. Absolutely. My church voluntarily closed down weeks ago, as the entire congregation felt it was justifiable. Most local businesses near me are also closed down, with the exception of the essential places. The nice thing is, local places have many necessities, so going on a trip into another town isn't often.

@Capt_N : As far as I know, all mosques have been closed down across the country since the outbreak (and a statement was made by the Australian National Imams Council regarding this), though via social media platforms, some imams have been giving sermons and the like, particularly on significant nights (and I expect it to be a lot more common with Ramadan coming up in about a week's time).

Very strange times indeed. I always considered my local mosque a safe haven when I was feeling down and/or needed an escape from my worldly troubles. I never even contemplated that something like this would happen in my lifetime.

"Pastoral services" (which I believe extend to all faiths despite the Christian connotation of "pastoral") are still conducted in Australia, presumably for events such as weddings, funerals, Christenings, and the like.

i know im not supposed to be going out but its still important to get yer exercise

@Silly_G "(and I expect it to be a lot more common with Ramadan coming up in about a week's time)."

Ramadan will probably proceed as Easter/Resurrection Sunday did. A lot of family dinners/gatherings, via Skype, and the like. Now is the time for communication cos (companies) to truly put forth their best performances, full of generosity. When Covid-19 is finally in check by multiple appropriate measures, primarily vaccines, people will remember which cos were benevolent in some ways, such as extending bill due dates, crediting accounts, etc.

That's largely semantics though isn't it. For all intents and purposes, we did "kill" the smallpox virus, for example.

It’s okay, I understood the joke.

@HobbitGamer

Was there a joke? Or maybe a Game of Thrones reference?

@Octane In what universe exactly are viruses not considered to be alive? Seeing as viruses mainly consist of bacteria and/or organic strains, they are most definitely alive, so that's an absolute fallacy right there.

@ThanosReXXX What do you mean with ''Seeing as viruses mainly consist of bacteria and/or organic strains''?

Bacteria and viruses aren't the same. Bacteria are single celled organisms (very much alive). Viruses are more like rogue genetic material. They are much smaller. They aren't contained in a cell, they don't have organelles, no metabolism, they can't even transcribe/translate their own genetic material.

They just float about until they come into contact with a living cell, inject their material into the cell via a chemical reaction, and the living cell will start transcribing the viral RNA/DNA; producing more viruses.

@ThanosReXXX

It's scientifically disputed, because there is no universally agreed upon definition of what counts as "life".

This is from the wikipedia article on viruses:

Scientific opinions differ on whether viruses are a form of life, or organic structures that interact with living organisms.[64] They have been described as "organisms at the edge of life",[8] since they resemble organisms in that they possess genes, evolve by natural selection,[65] and reproduce by creating multiple copies of themselves through self-assembly. Although they have genes, they do not have a cellular structure, which is often seen as the basic unit of life. Viruses do not have their own metabolism, and require a host cell to make new products. They therefore cannot naturally reproduce outside a host cell[66]—although bacterial species such as rickettsia and chlamydia are considered living organisms despite the same limitation.[67][68] Accepted forms of life use cell division to reproduce, whereas viruses spontaneously assemble within cells. They differ from autonomous growth of crystals as they inherit genetic mutations while being subject to natural selection. Virus self-assembly within host cells has implications for the study of the origin of life, as it lends further credence to the hypothesis that life could have started as self-assembling organic molecules.[1]

@Octane By pure biological/scientific definition, any organic and/or genetic material that can self-replicate, regardless of how they achieve that feat, is alive in some shape or form. The distinction doesn't have to incorporate being sentient and/or self-aware. Algae are also considered to be "alive" and they definitely aren't sentient or self-aware.

EDIT:
At the very least, some scientist seem to agree upon viruses being an essential part of evolution, which again, seems to point to their organic, and thus, alive nature.

Here's some interesting, objective reading material, considering both sides of the discussion: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-...

@Dezzy See above. The jury might still be undecided, but it seems that purely by definition, the odds for viruses actually being life organisms, are in the majority.

@ThanosReXXX

There is no "purely by definition" though, because there is no standard definition that is used for "life". Plenty of scientific concepts do have standard definitions, but plenty of others don't. "Life" is in the latter category.

@ThanosReXXX I've never said anything about sentience or self-awareness. You don't have to explain to me what algae are

There is no strict definition. I've had various talks with virologists over the years and the general consensus is definitely that it's something in-between organic and inorganic, or neither. As a developmental biologist, my views are perhaps a bit more strict, but I don't consider them to be alive. I'm open to chance that view if someone can show that they have evolved from obligate single-celled parasites or something alike. But as of now, I don't believe there's any good evidence for that; and thus, as rogue genetic material, there's little for them to be considered 'alive' in the strictest sense. I can agree that it's a grey area, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

Because if viruses are alive, then what about viroids?

What is life but our narrow definition of it?

its all about hoarding hand sanitizer babay!

@ogo79 Go back to the senior citizens’ club you fossil!

Well I can't remember who was originally suggesting this, maybe NEStalgia? But US intelligence is apparently seriously investigating the idea that it did start in the lab in Wuhan, based on new information.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/15/politics/us-intelligence-v...

I don't know what importance that really has when it comes to actual policy, because these kinds of things obviously can equally arise in normal outdoor circumstances, but it's at least interesting I guess.