I cannot comment on the game directly because I haven't played it, but if it has something to say that isn't perpetuating racism, sexism, etc., then it shouldn't censured by Nintendo. I agree that just because it is attempting to be funny does not give it a pass, but just because it could be insulting to a non-oppressed group of people does not mean it is a hateful attack.
Why do you think it should be censored if it perpetuates racism, sexism, etc, but not if it attacks Christianity? Why should Nintendo let games that attack Christianity on the eshop, but block games that attack other groups?
Just because a group is in the majority doesn't make hateful attacks against them less hateful.
I think there is a distinction between critiquing a privileged group and perpetuating hateful ideas and structures of oppression. Christians are not in danger of becoming an oppressed group based on the fact that they are christians, while it is true that black people are oppressed because they are black and women are oppressed because they are women.
With that said, if BoI is simply a hateful screed against Christianity that attempts to create hate toward the religion then I don't think it is appropriate for Nintendo platforms. But if it is an actual critique that has something to say about religion, mental disease, child abuse, and other things, then maybe it has some cultural worth even if it is offensive or blasphemous within your certain belief structure.
Often the privileged censor things that could reveal certain things about a source of their power. Christianity is certainly one source of power for many privileged people in America. To continue to censor things that could begin to subvert how people think about the dominant religion just allows power to continue to work without being questioned.
Is it meant to be offending though?
Or is it just trying to appeal to a different group and accepts being taken as an offense by some that are religious?
Being anti-Christian/Jew would only appeal to people who are anti-Christian/Jew. The game could have easily existed, almost unchanged, without the Biblical references, but the developer chose to put them in there, either to cause controversy (and therefore receive publicity) or to attack Christians/Jews. I'm of the opinion that people who attack groups, whether out of malice or for entertainment, shouldn't be supported.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
@TrueWiiMaster
So basically it just comes down to personal preference. You personally don't want to see it on the eShop. It is less about whether it has the right to be on the eShop andmore just about you not wanting it to be there.
It is my personal preference that Nintendo keep hateful content off their digital shelves. I'd hope most people would prefer not to see hateful content, but I can only speak for myself here. That said, no game has a right to be on the eshop. Nintendo runs the eshop, and so should be able to choose what's added and what's rejected. The same goes for Sony and Microsoft, and the same goes for brick and mortar stores.
I haven't played through all of it but I don't think this game is hateful, I think the developers just wished to express their opinions on a subject in an entertaining way. So whether it is offensive or not doesn't stop it from being entertaining to some. If Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft allow this game to be sold in their eShop, I don't think it means they agree with the offensive material but they just want to allow people to chose for themselves what they want to play.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
As i said the context made me understand why some people would not like the connection the the biblical story.
With all else i have to side with @ejvirzi though.
if it is an actual critique that has something to say about religion, mental disease, child abuse, and other things, then maybe it has some cultural worth even if it is offensive or blasphemous within your certain belief structure.
To put it bluntly i'm glad the vast majority of believers is able to lead a life that doesn't put any kind of hurt on others. But i wouldn't say there are none drawing the wrong conclusions out of the holy books.
I think there is a distinction between critiquing a privileged group and perpetuating hateful ideas and structures of oppression. Christians are not in danger of becoming an oppressed group based on the fact that they are christians, while it is true that black people are oppressed because they are black and women are oppressed because they are women.
With that said, if BoI is simply a hateful screed against Christianity that attempts to create hate toward the religion then I don't think it is appropriate for Nintendo platforms. But if it is an actual critique that has something to say about religion, mental disease, child abuse, and other things, then maybe it has some cultural worth even if it is offensive or blasphemous within your certain belief structure.
Often the privileged censor things that could reveal certain things about a source of their power. Christianity is certainly one source of power for many privileged people in America. To continue to censor things that could begin to subvert how people think about the dominant religion just allows power to continue to work without being questioned.
There's a big difference between insulting and critiquing. BoI doesn't critique Christianity. It takes a piece of it and twists it into something it isn't, something that directly attacks the foundation of the story it took.
You keep talking about Christians being in no danger of oppression, but that's not really true. Religion in general is being oppressed, and Christianity has been the biggest target. Students are taught that their religion is wrong. People are fired for their faith. Christians are being told to keep their religion at home and in church. The moment someone is punished for their belief, or told to be silent, they are being oppressed.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
I haven't played through all of it but I don't think this game is hateful, I think the developers just wished to express their opinions on a subject in an entertaining way. So whether it is offensive or not doesn't stop it from being entertaining to some. If Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft allow this game to be sold in their eShop, I don't think it means they agree with the offensive material but they just want to allow people to chose for themselves what they want to play.
I'd say the fact that the game takes the story of Isaac, a story held sacred by millions, twists it to mean the opposite of its true meaning, and uses it as the premise for a game that even fans often call disgusting or grotesque is quite hateful.
There are two options: 1) they let everything in regardless of their approval, or 2) only games they approve of get in. As long as they're selective of what gets on their digital stores, everything that gets in will have their approval.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
I haven't played through all of it but I don't think this game is hateful, I think the developers just wished to express their opinions on a subject in an entertaining way. So whether it is offensive or not doesn't stop it from being entertaining to some. If Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft allow this game to be sold in their eShop, I don't think it means they agree with the offensive material but they just want to allow people to chose for themselves what they want to play.
I'd say the fact that the game takes the story of Isaac, a story held sacred by millions, twists it to mean the opposite of its true meaning, and uses it as the premise for a game that even fans often call disgusting or grotesque is quite hateful.
There are two options: 1) they let everything in regardless of their approval, or 2) only games they approve of get in. As long as they're selective of what gets on their digital stores, everything that gets in will have their approval.
Well there are Jewish scolars who believe that part was changed originally he was killed. Only one series of events can be true but the changed one is pretty much guaranteed not to be the one. It is why there is very little about him after that point. (Compared to similar characters).
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
I think there is a distinction between critiquing a privileged group and perpetuating hateful ideas and structures of oppression. Christians are not in danger of becoming an oppressed group based on the fact that they are christians, while it is true that black people are oppressed because they are black and women are oppressed because they are women.
With that said, if BoI is simply a hateful screed against Christianity that attempts to create hate toward the religion then I don't think it is appropriate for Nintendo platforms. But if it is an actual critique that has something to say about religion, mental disease, child abuse, and other things, then maybe it has some cultural worth even if it is offensive or blasphemous within your certain belief structure.
Often the privileged censor things that could reveal certain things about a source of their power. Christianity is certainly one source of power for many privileged people in America. To continue to censor things that could begin to subvert how people think about the dominant religion just allows power to continue to work without being questioned.
There's a big difference between insulting and critiquing. BoI doesn't critique Christianity. It takes a piece of it and twists it into something it isn't, something that directly attacks the foundation of the story it took.
You keep talking about Christians being in no danger of oppression, but that's not really true. Religion in general is being oppressed, and Christianity has been the biggest target. Students are taught that their religion is wrong. People are fired for their faith. Christians are being told to keep their religion at home and in church. The moment someone is punished for their belief, or told to be silent, they are being oppressed.
Two last things:
As makers of a creative work, they can interpret Christianity as they please. No one is the ultimate interpreter of the bible or any other religious works. So the creators of BoI are not attempting to hurt you and your beliefs because they have different ideas about the bible. Rather they have a different approach. Creating art usually involves approaching concepts in a different way, not with the intent of hurting, but with the intent of seeing the world in different ways.
Secondly, on the question of oppression, I think we just coming from vastly different experiences so we will never agree. I really do not see how Christianity is being oppressed, especially when it is a a gigantic justifying factor in the West's continued oppression and mistreatment of the middle east and its prominent role in American politics, to the point where only christians are voted into power.
Well there are Jewish scolars who believe that part was changed originally he was killed. Only one series of events can be true but the changed one is pretty much guaranteed not to be the one. It is why there is very little about him after that point. (Compared to similar characters).
What some scholars believe doesn't trump what most people believe, nor does it decide what happened. Besides, this game references and twists the Biblical story. The accuracy of the Biblical story, which most believers consider infallible, is irrelevant to the game.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
Well there are Jewish scolars who believe that part was changed originally he was killed. Only one series of events can be true but the changed one is pretty much guaranteed not to be the one. It is why there is very little about him after that point. (Compared to similar characters).
What some scholars believe doesn't trump what most people believe, nor does it decide what happened. Besides, this game references and twists the Biblical story. The accuracy of the Biblical story, which most believers consider infallible, is irrelevant to the game.
Okay one more thing:
The bible is already an interpretation of events. Also keep in mind all of the other interpreters, including priests, pastors, the pope, theologians, etc, who have influenced how you understand the bible.
just reading the bible in english is accepting an interpretation of the original language.
As makers of a creative work, they can interpret Christianity as they please. No one is the ultimate interpreter of the bible or any other religious works. So the creators of BoI are not attempting to hurt you and your beliefs because they have different ideas about the bible. Rather they have a different approach. Creating art usually involves approaching concepts in a different way, not with the intent of hurting, but with the intent of seeing the world in different ways.
Secondly, on the question of oppression, I think we just coming from vastly different experiences so we will never agree. I really do not see how Christianity is being oppressed, especially when it is a a gigantic justifying factor in the West's continued oppression and mistreatment of the middle east and its prominent role in American politics, to the point where only christians are voted into power.
Of course. They can interpret it however they want, and make whatever they want. That's their right. They even have the right to insult Christianity. I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying that such insults shouldn't be supported, out of respect/sensitivity to the people being insulted. Hateful attacks should be frowned upon, but not silenced.
I'd be surprised if there are no atheists in power. You'd expect most officials to be Christian, since supposedly 80% of Americans at least claim to be Christian, but not all of them. Either way, many of the elected Christians are Christian in name only. They may say they believe in Jesus, but many of them have anti-Christian or un-Christian agendas. This isn't really the place to get into religion in politics though.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
Obviously, for the most part, we can't really come to any agreement here. If BoI is really just based on hate, then I agree it probably shouldn't be on the eShop, but if it is serious critique, even if you think it is hurtful, then Nintendo should allow it on the platform. Obviously it is Nintendo's prerogative to put it up or not given they are a private company. They wouldn't censor it because they find it hurtful, but rather because they don't want to upset a vocal portion of their customers, a business decision.
Also, if people have to say they are christian, even if they are not, would point to how christianity is a source of power and is not being oppressed in America. In other words, a politician has to be seen as part of the privileged group rather than an outsider.
Anyway, no hurt feelings. It will be interesting to see if it ends up on the eShop or not.
Obviously, for the most part, we can't really come to any agreement here. If BoI is really just based on hate, then I agree it probably shouldn't be on the eShop, but if it is serious critique, even if you think it is hurtful, then Nintendo should allow it on the platform. Obviously it is Nintendo's prerogative to put it up or not given they are a private company. They wouldn't censor it because they find it hurtful, but rather because they don't want to upset a vocal portion of their customers, a business decision.
Also, if people have to say they are christian, even if they are not, would point to how christianity is a source of power and is not being oppressed in America. In other words, a politician has to be seen as part of the privileged group rather than an outsider.
Anyway, no hurt feelings. It will be interesting to see if it ends up on the eShop or not.
Whether it's a critique or not, it's still unnecessarily insulting. If the developer wanted to critique Christianity, he could have done a much better job without his blatant, hateful insults.
I think Nintendo would block it even if the majority of their customers weren't Christian. Put another way, I think they would also block a game that attacks Muslims, homosexuals, or other minorities. They aren't in the market of offending people, regardless of whether it would cost them money or not.
First, I'd say that people just prefer to vote for people they think have the same beliefs they do. It has nothing to do with Christianity being a source of power or privilege. And second, Christians aren't privileged. Everyone enjoys equal religious rights, and laws do not favor Christianity.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
I noticed some of you seem to be discussing the message this game was trying to convey. If you want to know a bit more about Edmund McMillen (the guy who created this game) and get a better understanding of why his games are the way they are, eurogamer did an interview with him a few years back:
I'm pretty sure you're in the minority there. Most people wouldn't want to support racism, sexism, etc. Even if the game was free, they probably wouldn't enjoy a game filled with those ideas, even if the game was well made. Adding such games to the eshop would definitely hurt Nintendo's reputation, and they wouldn't even consider it. Even Microsoft and Sony would block games like that from their platforms (I think they have a policy blocking all racist and pornographic content).
Never said I supported it, but they are usable story telling techniques. Racism, homophobia, sexism, pornography are available in all other forms of media, why shouldn't they or religious views be permitted in games as well?
Fiction is the ultimate parody. It is a mimicry of life, events, places and organisms. Like I said, it doesn't have to be funny
Never said I supported it, but they are usable story telling techniques. Racism, homophobia, sexism, pornography are available in all other forms of media, why shouldn't they or religious views be permitted in games as well?
According to the definition, it has to be funny or satirical. Simply being an imitation doesn't make something a parody.
If you buy racist, homophobic, sexist, or pornographic content, you're supporting it. Maybe you never meant you would buy it, but that's the implication I got when you said you'd be okay with it if it was fun.
There seems to be a misunderstanding. I'm not exactly against such content being made, or even bought. I think it's disgusting, and I think people who make and/or buy it are disrespectful, insensitive, and perhaps even hateful, but it's their right to make and buy what they want. I've been arguing that this game is insulting to Christianity and Jews, and that it shouldn't come to the eshop, not that it should be censored.
I am the TrueWiiMaster! Those who call the Wii casual BEWARE!
...Christians aren't privileged. Everyone enjoys equal religious rights, and laws do not favor Christianity.
LOL.
QUEEN OF SASS
It's like, I just love a cowboy
You know
I'm just like, I just, I know, it's bad
But I'm just like
Can I just like, hang off the back of your horse
And can you go a little faster?!
Well from what I read about the game and the creator there is no reason this game should not be allowed on the eShop. If Nintendo further denies this game for the eShop they should give actual reasons why. It seems that BoI is a strong expression of the creator's experience in his childhood. Nintendo should explain why that experience is offensive for the rest of us and how it somehow does not create a good gameplay experience.
Now, I'm going to go watch some blasphemous Twilight Zone episodes...
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