Topic: SNES VC for older 3ds

@skywake
Some on this site complain of colors being washed out on WiiU compared to the original. The Megaman Legacy Collection version of Megaman 5 is very glitchy and it was sold commercially, it's very much playable though so does that mean I'm entitled to a refund because it's glitchy? Most modern games don't even run at 60fps, take Hyrule Warriors for example it runs better on new models but is still fully playable on original 3ds.

And quite a fair amount of people questioned why did Tecmo even release the game on the original model when it ran like a bad ps1 game. The game actually got a lot of bad rep because of their decision of going for the "more people have the original model" market.

It runs absolutely fine on the new models, even more stable than on the wiiu... But the performance on the original model gave it the "bad port" stigma anyway.

It seems they learned they lesson, with the next game skipping the original models.

Because they're natively running on the 3DS. SuperNes games wouldn't and require a software emulator that replicates in software the functionality of the original console. You did not read those links, or you'd be aware at this point what so many have tried to explain to you.

Emulation is one of the toughest tasks in videogaming and requires not just someone skilled in programming, but someone also equally skilled as a historian, researcher, detective, etc. And most of all, they have to be someone that isn't against hundreds of hours of trial and error work with frequent disappointments as they work with incomplete or non-existent technical data, no source code to reference in 99% of cases, etc. They have to have the patience of a saint, or find a different job.

Just the task of isolating a scoring register to grab data from to enable leaderboard functionality on modern hardware is a painstaking process. Or read that Atari Anthology article I linked and read about what they had to do with the start button on the Xbox/Playstation 2 just to enable it to not only start a 2600 game, but also double as a pause button for the emulator once the game is in-progress.

The emulation program has to be able to recognize the difference between running in attract mode and when the player is actively in control, which is trivial when coding a game from scratch to run natively, but is anything but when you're digging through 35 year old non-annotated game code that you've dumped. The emulator has to constantly scan what it's doing at that moment in time and recognize the correct state that the game is in so it responds appropriately when the player presses start.

Well they're right and they should have done better with the Wii U VC. But the issue isn't with the emulation itself. These games run fine on the Wii U they've just for some reason got this washed out colour pallet. It's not like on the 3DS where they've obviously had some performance issues.

You think that some products being sold at an unacceptable quality is an excuse for no quality control on other products? I'd argue that if I'm handing over money for a game it better be at a decent quality. If I buy something and it is fundamentally broken? Well for one thing I'm not going to buy more games in that series. But yeah, I should be entitled to a refund if a game isn't of an acceptable quality.

@skywake

Well they're right and they should have done better with the Wii U VC. But the issue isn't with the emulation itself. These games run fine on the Wii U they've just for some reason got this washed out colour pallet. It's not like on the 3DS where they've obviously had some performance issues.

But they are still playable just like the Megaman legacy collections mm5. From what I've seen of amateur SNES emu on 3ds it's good enough that I would buy.

You think that some products being sold at an unacceptable quality is an excuse for no quality control on other products?

[/quote]

A lot of games are sold that way, that's nothing new. Look at Mighty No 9 and the vast majority of shovelware on the eshop.

If you acknowledge this then why not give up on the whine?

@skywake
I was trying to quote you but obviously I goofed. There are no performance issues with the original 3ds. Mine runs just as well as the day I bought it.

Have nicer heard of if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck it's a duck?

Ok, I apologise for the mistake. I thought you were actually being adult enough to admit you were wrong. A bit of a shame really. Especially when you follow up in the next post by completely missing the point again. Isn't your hole deep enough already? I almost feel sorry for you at this point.

@skywake
I really think the old 3ds is more than capable to get the quality emu results to play the games. They can throw in a disclaimer that for optimum results it's best played on new 3ds. Or they could do a update for the 3ds allocating more power by shutting down background processes or running in ds mode like the ambassador gba games (they ran just fine I don't get why they didn't release them to the public for a price).

You still don't get it. It's not what you think, it's what Nintendo thinks. Obviously, Nintendo doesn't think that the 3DS is technically where it needed to be to run the emulation program that Nintendo envisioned, at the cost and time that Nintendo was willing to invest. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is, so there's no point to feign confusion about it for months on end.

End of discussion.

Considering this thread has been going for almost 11 months, I highly doubt it...

On the positive side, we're nearing our one year anniversary.

@GoneFishin, @Octane
And in that time all the new line has been about is Xenoblade and SNES VC only besides some Indy and shovelware titles on the eshop. It would be one thing if the new 3ds was so overwhelmingly powerful that it could do wonders and eat cucumbers, but for the price and its offerings it's not. Hyrule Warriors is playable on older models so I could play it no problem. Smash and ultimate 4 run just the same on the old it just takes a few seconds longer to load, otherwise no dip in gameplay just because you have a new doesn't give you an edge in game!

You keep saying the architecture is way different, but the advance was similar to the SNES. The ds had a similar architecture to the advance so it could be backwards compatible with it as well as the rest of the Gameboy line. Just because a system uses a newer chip that can do more advanced things doesn't mean it can't do what the older could, take the sound chip expansions for the famicom for example you could get better quality sounds out of one chip over the other but the base experience was the same. (Hypothetical scenario here chip ao134 can do 2d graphics, chip xc798xl can do that on top of advanced calculations for 3D graphics, it can still do 2d in addition so except for applications that call specifically for it there's no real difference.)

@DarthNocturnal
The advance line could play Gameboy and GBC, the ds could only play the advance line since they used a similar technique as the region lockout of the SNES.

...

Please elaborate.

@Pocky
By that logic you could argue that a end of life model SNES ran more efficiently than a launch model simply because better components were used. So does OoT3d run better on new 3ds compared to the older models? Yes, but probably not a big enough of an improvement to call home about. An emulator is still just a program much like the game programs that run natively. The advance ambassador VC ran in ds mode on the 3ds correct so their architecture was close enough. If that's all people would have to complain about was they couldn't use sleep mode or if it soft reset everytime a SNES or gba VC game ended it would only be a small inconvenience.

@Pocky
Says the one holding the raccoon.

You're clueless.

The Super Nintendo's regional lockout scheme involved plastic, which is why I'm able to play Super Famicom games in my SNES with a Game Genie, bypassing the physical barrier Nintendo incorporated. The GBC played GB games because it used an evolution of the original's hardware, halving the clock speed in BC mode from 8 MHz to 4 and utilizing 1/3 of the available memory. And as said, the GBA is compatible with the GB and GBC by virtue of including the GBC's Z80 CPU as a coprocessor that sometimes was used as a sound processor in GBA games, to complement the system's primary ARM7 CPU.

And the DS/DS Lite is BC with the GBA thanks to retaining the ARM7 as a coprocessor to complement the ARM9 that served as the primary CPU for the DS. Again, it's sometimes used as a sound processor in DS games much how the GBA utilized its Z80, and is primarily here to enable BC. It doesn't play GB/GBC games because the Z80 is gone.

Has nothing to do with plastic.

@GoneFishin
I always assumed Nintendo had just been cheap in not having bc with its gb/GBC line.

Bottom line still is using the gba hardware it should have been possible to play gb on ds especially since the chips already do the same thing as older models. (For example shovel knight is 2d graphics but OoT is 3D graphics, so there are chips that can do 2d as well as 3D. You tell the ROM of a game in the emu program to simply use the newer hardware, logically it should be no different since it's doing the exact same thing as the older chipset but more efficiently and with a better processor and more efficient chips running a SNES game should not pose that big of a problem!)

Again, you're clueless.

And y'all are not making common sense. If a new thing can do the same thing as an older thing but better then X should equal X. The fx chip on starfox was used to do calculations for vector graphics correct? So the chip that does the calculation for 3ds would be more than capable to do the exact same thing! The emu program just says "Hey I'm a SNES " and runs the ROM using what it has access to! End of story.