Topic: Problems with WiiWare, and how to solve them

So I was reading and commented on the NL article on the Bonsai Barber devs talking about WiiWare's .... I'd be interested to know what people think is wrong with the service and how it could be improved. So far, here's what I've got:

• No promotion or exposure for WiiWare games
• WiiWare restrictions (memory size, developer entry level)
• Minimal Wii internal memory
• Wii can't run games from SD card
• General lack of focus on online features
• Difficult to navigate the shop
• Shop doesn't stand out on the Wii menu
• No demos
• Games never get price drops over time
• No sales or discounts ever occur
• Poor game release timing
• Games can never (or extremely rarely) get patches or updates
• Efforts were too little, too late

I have to go so I can't post my thoughts on solutions, but I'd like to hear what people have to say. I'm really hoping the 3DS fixes all of these problems, because Nintendo really bungled up WiiWare and VC imo.

There's not enough big name games on it IMO. Just think what a new Four Swords Zelda game for the WiiWare would do for the service, even if they used the same graphics as Gamecube Four Swords.

There just aren't enough games to get people to make the effort to get online if they haven't already. Games like the Bit.Trip series only appeal to those already on the service.

Even fan favorite companies such as Konami aren't using their well known characters in more games.

A Metal Gear Solid mini-game compilation? Well, its better than a mini-game compilation featuring lame generic characters thats for sure.

For exposure purposes, the Wii or whatever could use some sort of what`s new section. Something that is easy to get to, but not intrusive. Kind of like the Nintendo Channel in a way, but the Wii menu is not set up for such purposes. Navigating between channels is more of a chore than anything.

Well, the obvious solution for #3, #4, #12, is better designed hardware.

#8: I'm not sure why Nintendo doesn't do WiiWare demos. Even if it's not for every game, some way of trying before you buy is always welcome. Sure, some people might get turned off by crappy demos, but there are actually a lot of people who don't buy downloadable titles because they're too paranoid of getting a stinker. Thus, (generally) more sales. The Wii is fully capable and Nintendo actually had a demo service for about a month....and then they removed it. ...wat@Nintendo

The rest of the stuff could be fixed by...well, putting more effort into online services. Price drops/adjustments CAN happen on the current shop setup, yet Nintendo generally disallows it. WiiWare/VC games can get patches, but it's underutilized. I'm still waiting for that My Pokemon Ranch patch so I can connect to Platinum+HG/SS, Nintendo. Online play is generally rare because of the small developers. Hard to blame them for that, although it's pretty much inexcusable with bigger companies.

Overall, it's pretty much down to putting more effort into the online service and having it run on better hardware. Most of the problems with WiiWare don't need to exist, it's just laziness or unwillingness to invest. The only way things will change is if Nintendo gets their act together.

There's just not enough reasons to go online. It's simple as that.

The PSN/ Xbox online features are plentiful and varied - From catch-up TV, Music videos, trophies and facebook support and so on and so forth. Both Sony and Microsoft encourage you to connect your console 24/7.

Game downloads are not, in themselves, enough of an incentive to go online, especially when the retail Wii games are better than the downloads.

Nintendo needs to build a robust and fully-featured online service that treats downloads as one small part of it. Then people will, ironically enough, download more because they'll be more connected.

Nintendo went about WiiWare and VC all wrong tbh. They didn't give either service very much exposure, they allowed demo's for WiiWare (for about a month), but what about VC games? There are still some really crap VC games out there.

Shuffling around the Wii Shop Channel is a chore. You have a "Newest Additions" type section when you enter the Wii Shop, but after that, its just shuffling through the stinkers to find a gem... and without demo's, your chances of downloading a gem are slim to none.

The limited memory on the Wii is despicable, they should have fixed that before releasing the Wii really... and also, 40MB allowed for a WiiWare game is awful, just plain awful...

If they hope to fix this, they need to do a complete overhaul, and hopefully we'll see something spectacular for the next Nintendo console.

I don't see the size limit as a big deal to be honest and the devs I've spoken to have never cited that as a problem for them, it's the promotion of the Wii Shop and the feeling that Nintendo aren't backing it as well as they could which seems to be the biggest gripe.

To be honest I'm not sure what could be done at this point to change that other than possibly releasing high-profile Nintendo games which feature online connectivity more prominently to draw in the masses. The upcoming Mario Sports Mix game might just be the online gateway title to achieve this, though Wii Sports Resort could have fulfilled the same function.

They also really need to spam people's in-boxes more. Every week I should have a message from Nintendo telling me what the new releases are in the shop; not just that there's new demos or some new Nintendo game. Instead I get messages to my email, but that's only because I'm registered with Club Nintendo - I'm curious to know how small a percentage of Wii owners fit into that category.

I'm sure the next home console will ape the 3DS's "always connected, push-driven marketing" model, but if they wait to do that they may well find themselves having to work extra hard to convince 3rd parties they're serious this time around and by then it might be too late.

Frankly, one thing I DO like about the Wii's online service is a lack of push-driven marketing. I don't want to be told about new things to buy every time I turn on my console, which happens when the PS3 defaults to PSN store as the first icon you're on. I won't even get started on Microsoft's marketing strategy. The little Shop Channel box is unintrusive but does display new releases. Personally, I think the Wii's menu screen is the most attractive this gen, BECAUSE the marketing is unobtrusive. I hope they don't change that just because people are accustomed to online products being thrown at them every time they turn on the console that THEY paid for (especially with Nintendo machines, since they are not sold at losses hoping to make up the difference in games).

Combining the Shop and Nintendo channels and streamlining the search experience WOULD be helpful. Once I'm on the Shop channel I don't mind a pile of marketing (as long as it doesn't get in the way of me actually purchasing things), because I'm there to shop. I agree with Waltz that a more streamlined online service in general would be helpful to get people more connected. I think Netflix will help with that a lot. More games with compelling online modes would be helpful too. Once people are hooked up to the internet, they'll probably stay connected.

Nintendo is at an obvious disadvantage, in some ways, BECAUSE they aren't competing with gaming companies anymore. They're competing with multi-media companies. Sony makes movies, TV's, has a record label, etc. Microsoft makes computers, smartphone software, music players, etc. Nintendo has always just done games. How they will decide to branch into other forms of media distribution will be important to them going forward.

It might not be a problem for developers to create games within the file size limit.

However I can download a HD version of God of War on my PS3. That's 9.8GB in size.

RPGs are also almost impossible on WiiWare because those games tend to be longer and more data-intensive. Even Costume Quest, which was a tiny RPG, was way, way, way over the Wii download limit.

And then there's FPSers. Sorry guys, but Water Warfare and Onslaught don't compare to Blacklight: Tango Down, let alone the better PSN FPSers.

The reason the file size limit is a problem is not because of the ability to make games within that limit, it's a problem for the variety of games you can download. The Wii badly needs to support a greater variety in downloads.

I know I'm not a typical customer but marketing is simply annoying. It is especially annoying when a game is hyped into the stratosphere and then turns out to be disappointing. It makes me that much more wary about marketing the next time around (as if I weren't already wary enough).

Make the games more appealing to customers and more customers will buy them. Yes, a certain level of awareness is necessary but hyper-marketing of stuff which doesn't deserve it is a waste of time and money.

The last time I bought any Nintendo Points was in November of 2009. That is not due to any lack of awareness of what's available in the Wii Shop. I'm waiting for Interplay to (hopefully) announce the impending release of Descent for WiiWare. I have a sick feeling it's probably going to be canceled. Sigh.

Descent is still listed for a Fall 2010 release for WiiWare on Interplay's website (along with ClayFighter, Stonekeep, and MDK2), although you'd think we'd have heard more about it by now.

Seems like I remember replying to a topic like this.....probably a different message board/forum.

There are two problems I guess I see with WiiWare; no price point below 500 points, and how Nintendo doesn't promote the service in other media. $5 is a low price, but WiiWare gets the occasional game that isn't a good buy at 500 points; easy fix. I suppose the biggest reason Nintendo doesn't spend it's own money to promote WiiWare is because they just don't make a lot for it. Now some people see that as it's own problem about WiiWare, but Nintendo's lack of games on WiiWare is actually one of my favorite things about the service; it invites all kinds of creativity without requiring the budget and polish to compete with Nintendo, unlike Wii retail. So what's the fix? I dunno. WiiWare keeps getting plenty of fantastic games without Nintendo promoting it...... does it need a fix? WiiWare doesn't get stuff like Braid or Limbo because of size-constraints and not notoriety, and I think the size constraints encourage a better focus on the gameplay.

Games can never (or extremely rarely) get patches or updates
That's completely wrong. It's very easy to put out a patch for a WiiWare game if the developer/publisher wants to.

Difficult to navigate the shop
I hear this one a lot, and frankly I'm starting to feel stupid because the Wii Shop Channel is just so damn easy to use; it's one of the easiest online shops I've ever used. So, feel free to explain if you want.

I think the major problem with the service is the majority of the games are games you have never heard of, and many of them are simplistic games, some that can be played for free on the internet. Its not like developers have really put themselves out on a limb when they make Wiiware games. Quirky little puzzle games are ok, but dont expect them to sell like mad. MegaMan 9 and 10 did well because people recognize them as full fleged games. They may be old school, but they are complete games. Sonic 4 has done well even with the $15 price, its a games people know and want, and it feels very much like a complete game. The demo service is going to help promote the new apps, but developers need to take a serious look at the classics from the past, and give them new life on Wiiware. Its four years into the service, and Sonic 4 is by far the best effort for a Wiiware game yet, and guess what, its selling really well. Konami did pretty good with theeir "Rebirth" games. I really like Contra Rebirth, but I cant help but feel that they threw this games together in three months. Developers should take note of what Sega has done with Sonic 4, and do the same with some of their classic franchises. More and more people are getting their Wii's hooked up to the internet, and the Wiiware market is getting bigger, but its up to developers to provide products people want. Fluidity is a good example of how the demo service can help new apps. It wouldnt be game I would normally consider, but after playing the demo, I will probably give it shot.

Sonic 4 is an awful game which is selling based off the fact that it has Sonic in it (which hasn't stopped successive awful Sonic games from selling well) and retro nostalgia. To call Sonic 4 "the best effort for a WiiWare game yet" is just offensive, as there are so many games which aren't absolute trash. Just about anything topped Sonic 4; just listing platformers alone: Icarian (NyxQuest), Fluidity, LostWinds series, Jett Rocket, And Yet It Moves, bit.trip RUNNER, and Cave Story. Do you think Sonic 4 would have sold anywhere near as well if it were called "Run Rabbit"? Hell no, it's selling off a name and reputation it hasn't earned, and I hope its success doesn't lead to more dumbing down on WiiWare.

I'm thankful for games we've never heard of. WiiWare developers have put more creative stuff into our hands than anything in the retail market. We don't need more blind sequel-making on WiiWare, because the absence of that is exactly what makes it so great. Obviously, there are some absolute duds on WiiWare, I don't think anyone's here to deny that, and that can make us wary when grabbing a title we don't recognise, but the solution to that isn't "More Mario games, please!" Reviews are one way of weeding out the crap, as are demos. Sure, you can't rely on impulse purchases for WiiWare any more, but how is that any different to any retail or digital offering? In any market, there's a lot of crap, and having a recognisable name attached obviously doesn't solve that problem.

Maybe the WiiWare service needs a way to focus on the great titles available, but in the meantime the only option is to be a savvy consumer, which isn't the same thing as buying anything with a name you recognise. Hint: it involves reading.

40 MB? I mean seriously?! This is extremely old-fashioned and it already was in 2008, even if you take into account that the Wii has only 512 MB of internal storage space. Since the Wii supports SD-cards of dozens of gigabytes, they should at least spruce it up to say, 150 MB.

Sonic 4 is hardly an awful game, but if you didnt like it I can respect your opinion. What you have to take into account if that developers make games to make money. If their games arent making money, they stop making them. The profit made on a game like Sonic 4 may result in the developer being able to take a little risk, and develop some totally new apps for Wiiware. If the Wiiware efforts never result in some serious return, they will stop making them. By releasing some new renditions of some well know franchises, they pretty much guarantee a good return on their investment, and this funds those new projects.

WiiWare is probably at least 80% independent developers who don't have major IPs like Sonic to leverage. This means they don't really get much choice but to make "games you have never heard of". That's how being a small company works. They design a game they hope they can successfully market, and then they attempt to do so. Obviously they're making games for money, but using recognisable properties isn't any kind of solution because all it will do is help major publishers/developers even more profitable than they already are, while swamping out the independents.

Sure, Nintendo/Sega/Capcom/Konami can throw some Mario/Sonic/Mega Man/Contra title on WiiWare and do good business, but that doesn't help WiiWare in any meaningful sense. It might mean a few more big successes in the digital market, but it won't help Bplus or Gaijin or Nicalis or whatever market their next release; while there might be a slightly larger audience to play to since they've been drawn in by major names, they now also have to compete with those major names, and how many breakout independent IPs can you think of on the Wii?

At least on WiiWare there's a mostly level playing field with all these indie developers working to have their titles noticed. Retail is already flooded with big name sequels; just think how many Final Fantasy, Guitar Hero, Call of Duty, Mario, Sonic, Halo, etc. games there are. Take a look at any list of Wii best-sellers and try to identify an independently developed, original IP. What you're asking for is the same thing to happen to the digital market as happened to retail years ago, for independent and original titles to be buried under big name retro facsimiles so that these major developers can move on to taking risks. News flash: major names already succeeded. They're not the ones who need support to continue to churn out samey products, or for the opportunity to take risks. Small developers, for whom risks are the norm, where there's no such thing as a sure thing, are the ones who need profits.

EDIT: I think what's really bugging me is that there already are "totally new apps" for WiiWare. Why are you waiting for a big-name developer to "take a little risk"? Indies take massive risks on every project. Risk is the indie's bread and butter. I don't need Sega to deign to take a risk, there's already plenty of originality on offer in the WiiWare catalogue.

I absolutely agree with you on most accounts here. The majority of successfull software at retail is in the forms of sequels. Not many completely orginal games ever come out at retail, and thats great that a very small developer can come up with a new creative idea, and produce a Wiiware game that has a shot at success. I am however getting the impression that these are the only types of games you want to see on Wiiware, almost as if your afraid that if we start seeing bigger and bigger production games on Wiiware, the little guys wont have a chance. I dont think this will happen for the simple fact they are limited to 40MB. Just like Wiiware is a good fit for new lower budget games, I also believe that it gives some old school games a chance for resurection.

The amount of data in a game is entirely irrelevant to whether it will drown out original content. A 5MB Mario game is still a Mario game and will still garner more attention than basically anything else on WiiWare. The market doesn't care about or most likely even know how big a given WiiWare title is. It's not so much that I only want original properties on WiiWare as that I'm comfortable with the current ratio of original titles to retro remakes, sequels, etc.

If the market is flooded with these types of titles, then yeah, the little guys won't have a chance, because given the choice of a Metroid remake and Cave Story, for most gamers, Metroid will win out every time. Anyone who only wants to spend $10/$12/whatever on Metroid-style titles on WiiWare will get Metroid and be done. The more big names find their way to WiiWare, the less small-name games sell. This is regardless of whether Metroid is 20MB and Cave Story is 30MB.

Thus, I can see no way in which more remakes/sequels are any kind of solution to problems like lack of exposure for WiiWare games--having to compete with established brands is only going to compound that lack of exposure. Certainly, more WiiWare games total would be sold, but less and less of them would be independent releases. It'd just be retail in miniature. Some indie games will manage to find a niche market, but it will be infinitesimal in comparison to the successes of, e.g. first-party releases.

The beauty of WiiWare is that, for now, at least, it isn't retail in miniature. It's also not the success story most devs would like it to be (hence this topic), but it could be a lot worse if all its games were suffocating under Nintendo offerings.

I dont think you give the Wiiware titles enough credit. Do you think the only reasons Wiiware titles sell is because of the lack of competition from known franchises on the service? Take Fluidity for example, a cool game that will probably do pretty good on Wiiware. It caters to a totally differant market than a new Metroid would. Its true that Metroid would probably sell far better than your average Wiiware game, but thats only because there is a large number of Wii gamers who arent buying Wiiware titles at all, but would go to the shop channel specifically for the new Metroid. Your independantly developed games are going to sell to a niche market, and that niche market isnt going to stop buying them simply because some more traditional offerings are now part of the service.