Topic: No Disk Drive?

Yeah, screw the second hand market!! Screw the people who can't afford to buy games at full price!!
Actually if you're so poor that you can't afford to buy full priced digital games, you shouldn't play at all. You should do stuff poor people do, like carving wood, sniffing glue or sleeping in haystacks.

Also they can still stop you from playing disk games via a update where the make all game disk unreadable.

I don't think you're in the minority, I just think it's one of those quite poor arguments that anti-physicial (felt weird typing that) people use in order to justify their hatred for physicial media. I can't even imagine people being that lazy and impatient.

I also gotta quote

And yet the VC exists, remasters exist, ports exist. They ask for us to pay for these games over and over again every generation. And they get away with it because most people buy physical media.

Actually, this is a great example as to why digital only is bad, since they can get away with forcing you to re-purchase games you already bought before on their newest hardware. Yet with physicial, I have the option of playing the games on older hardware without having to worry about the online service on an older console being shut down or the game being taken off the marketplace spontaneously like PT and a few others.

Looks at Steam... going completely digital might work out better for people who can't afford to buy full price games.

The only reason why steam has good sales is because they're competing with piracy.

I don't carry around all my physical games which means when I am out with my 3DS, I am limited to what I have in the system. I buy my games digitally so I have a lot more options than someone that buys only physically. So switching out games can actually be a difficult thing to do.

Same can be said either way. Physical can be bad because your purchase is stuck to 1 system. If that system or game breaks then you have to spend way more to try to replace it. Digital can also be stuck to 1 system and if it breaks then you might have to spend more in order to play it. There really is no 1 format that is better. There are people (like myself) that prefer digital.

There are a lot of cogs in the machine, piracy is not the only reason.

I don't carry around all my physical games which means when I am out with my 3DS, I am limited to what I have in the system. I buy my games digitally so I have a lot more options than someone that buys only physically. So switching out games can actually be a difficult thing to do.

I'm confused. I don't recall saying I want digital gone, I'm just saying the argument of getting rid of physical games because "it takes too long to switch the games" is ridiculous. I wasn't thinking about handhelds at all, though, and I can understand why some would prefer digital for them.

Same can be said either way. Physical can be bad because your purchase is stuck to 1 system. If that system or game breaks then you have to spend way more to try to replace it. Digital can also be stuck to 1 system and if it breaks then you might have to spend more in order to play it. There really is no 1 format that is better. There are people (like myself) that prefer digital.

Yes, there are downsides to both, but I find that because digital is more controlled, you can actually lose your game permanently if they decide to remove the game from the online marketplace or end the online service. With physical, you're able to repurchase the game at a shop, or ebay, etc. down the line.

There are a lot of cogs in the machine, piracy is not the only reason.

It's not, but it's a major reason why PC has gone all digital and why there are incredible sales. Consoles are competing with the used games market, so if that is taken out, they have more control over the prices of games and the sales will be nowhere as good.

Why Steam now?! Aren't we talking about console games?! My head is hurting.

I think I can sum up this thread:

• in Australia discs weight a lot more because of gravity, therefore they are harder to swap.
• in 60 years we'll still have our 2015 digital purchases but the rest of the history of mankind on any other format (cd, tape, 8mm, vinyl, cartridge, floppy discs, dvd, vhs, books etc) won't function not because the support deteriorates but because the device that reads them won't work and we can't be arsed getting a new one.
• digital does not depend on the device you play it on. If you own floppies and the disc drive breaks, you are toast. But if your 3DS breaks it restores by itself, as if by magic.
• poor people are killing the industry with their dodgy practices about 2nd hand games and should be stoned to death.
• Videogame publishers such as EA, Ubisoft, Capcom, Konami, Activision etc. are actually pretty excellent people and in no way they would do something that takes advantage of the players. They have deserved all of our money.

The whole "digital only" thing (the way I see it) could cripple the system.
1. People with bad internet would have a hard time buying games.
2. People would have no control over how they consume.
3. No loaning games to friends.
4. Retailers would have a hard time making a profit from sales (discourage retailers to sell nx)

IMO digital only would make a lot more sense for a handheld.

In that case:
1. The market is niche in the first place so there will be even fewer customers without internet in their homes. Those without Internet would also have the ability to take their handheld elsewhere to download games
2. The lack of a cartridge slot allows them to reduce the handheld's size, increasing portability.
3. Carrying handheld games around is always a huge hassle. In a digital only device, that problem goes away.

I feel like those additional benefits actually justify a digital only handheld far more than a digital only console, which generally fails to give the benefits other digital media have.

Well.... yes. Not to the nonsense hyperbole obviously but indeed, screw the second hand market. You're trying to argue that the video game publishers are "evil" and we shouldn't trust them? Why should you trust resellers? What are they in it for? Your money isn't going to the creator of the game. Your money is going directly into the pocket of a scalper or a company like Gamestop.

Anf BTW, of course we're talking about Steam. Why wouldn't we? This is a discussion about moving away from physical media for games! Steam is the biggest platform that has effectively killed physical sales. Why shouldn't we make observations about what has happened there? Why not?

Actually lets go through your "thread summary" in reference to the Steam experience:
in Australia discs weight a lot more because of gravity, therefore they are harder to swap
Well this sort of wording makes you look like an ass. Still, on the basic point you're making here. Before Steam PC gaming involved mounting ISOs on virtual CD drives as a way to get around the requirements to have the disk in the drive. Every game would install in its own location, patches had to be applied manually from the devs website. With Steam? Updates happen in the background, everything is in one location and loading a game is a couple of clicks away. This is what I'd call progress. You want to whine about "people these days"? Fine, go ahead. Frankly I'm of the view that anything that gets in the way of me and the thing I want to do isn't a good thing.

in 60 years we'll still have our 2015 digital purchases but the rest of the history of mankind on any other format won't function not because the support deteriorates but because the device that reads them won't work and we can't be arsed getting a new one.
Pretty much. Although it'll be less a case of us not being "arsed", for some consoles and formats it'll be damn near impossible to get hold of. For PC gaming we've already seen tapes and 5.25" floppies die. It's kinda impossible to find one that'd work on a modern PC. The same is slowly happening to floppy drives and at this point even optical media is slowly slipping away. Digital is far more persistent, it doesn't care what tech you're using.

digital does not depend on the device you play it on. If you own floppies and the disc drive breaks, you are toast. But if your 3DS breaks it restores by itself, as if by magic.
Again, pretty much. With Steam as the example if your PC dies and you have to buy a new one all of your games are there ready to download. Alongside your saves. As long as you have a device that can work with Steam you have access to your content. Yes, like magic. Across generations. But with physical media if the specific device for the specific format that media is dies? It's much harder to regain access to it. Also your example should be "if your 3DS breaks ten years from now? If you're digital it doesn't necessarily matter. If there are newer platforms also tied to that account that can play that content. Like magic"

poor people are killing the industry with their dodgy practices about 2nd hand games and should be stoned to death
Absurd hyperbole. You're also making the assumption that the second hand market makes games cheaper. If you missed it I did point out earlier that PC games at launch are regularly cheaper than console equivalents. When Steam sales come around the same is true for the comparison to used game prices. These people aren't "helping the poor", they're taking advantage of them

Videogame publishers such as EA, Ubisoft, Capcom, Konami, Activision etc. are actually pretty excellent people and in no way they would do something that takes advantage of the players. They have deserved all of our money.
And resellers deserve our money? Frankly as much as it's easy to whine about the big publishers they at least have a hand in the making of the game. Why shouldn't they get a cut for every single sale? The less links in the chain the more likely you're going to get a better deal. And the market is pretty swift in kicking companies for trying to screw us over. It's not like there aren't options in the digital space, if people feel like they're being screwed they'll just run for the hills.

Unfortunately we are not making any progress skywake, are we.
I'm trying to explain to you that basically any support created during the XX century, from the Edison Cylinder to the SACD, is still playable. If vinyl continues through the 2000s, I don't see why CDs/DVDs shouldn't continue for another century or so.
You keep saying no, you keep confusing survival of the support with availability on the market ("tape is dead" you mean you can't find it at the shop, but tapes are still playable as long as you have the deck) and you have a few DOS floppies that you complain about but you clearly refuse to buy the proper machine to play them on.

Everything else you have written is filler. I lost you when you started talking about applying patches manually. We went from swapping discs to manual patches?! That's proof you are not interested in listening, you just want to talk and talk and talk until somebody dies of exhaustion. I have expressed my thoughts on people blindingly wanting to support "the industry", people throwing money at the screen, people pre-ordering, people paying full price for a new game etc etc many times, and the last thing I want to do is having to write it all again only for you to ignore it completely.
There's no much I can do if you refuse to listen, so I'll just leave the thread before my IQ drops below zero.

Excellent post. I was about to write a rebuttal but why bother? He flat out ignores every argument against him. It's not worth my time. I can't believe there are people that want to remove options for others because of laziness and irrational hatred of game stores. I don't care who gets my money, all I care about is how I receive the game. And I should have the option to decide if I want to support a company or not.

I'm done here.

I think the big problem is that the format will not be printed anymore. If you already own a piece of software and the hardware to run it, then you can use it. As time moves discs and machines will breakdown. With digital formats that software can continue to be purchased and enjoyed by new consumers without having to hunt for the technology. By looking at Steam (and other digital stores) we can see classic games can continue to live on and gain new players.

Then rom dump your games and you can enjoy them through an emulator forever.

Of course they are still playable, IF you have the hardware and IF it doesn't break down. For example, how do you play game boy games if your game boy dies? Or virtual boy? Or n64? Or game cube? Consoles are notoriously bad when it comes to support older formats. Consoles are the very definition of planned obsolence.

Ok, ease up on the hyperbole about digital gaming being the degradation of modern society because of "laziness." It's called convenience, as in the convenience of using a plastic card to pay for stuff every time you go to a store instead of having to carry around cash all the time, or the convenience of changing the TV channel without having to get up and press buttons on the TV.

Convenience is a cornerstone of modern life. If you need something to angrily wave your canes at, try modern conventions that actually have a negative impact on our lives, like HFCS or our reliance on fossil fuels.

The main problems with digital gaming right now are a) internet bandwidth/data caps and b) lack of ownership through DRM. But it's a work in progress. PC gaming has found a digital model that works. The music and film industries have found digital models that work. The console gaming industry is primitive in this regard, but as internet becomes more advanced in more major markets, digital will eclipse physical there too, as long as DRM and preservation issues get addressed. And they will be.

The thing is I haven't ignored any of the arguments people have presented. I've pointed to them and made counter points addressing it. I made a huge post where I addressed every single one of the rather disingenuous characterisations of my position.

People have literally said that me saying that the used market isn't a good thing is equivalent to stoning poor people to death. To which I responded by simply saying that buying used doesn't give any money to the companies literally making this content. And that pricing on the only major digital-only game platform is not crazy expensive in comparison. If you think resellers are fantastic for consumers how about you wander over to the Amiibo section of the forum. I'm not being obtuse here, it's a pretty clear logic to follow.

If you guys want to make an argument then please do. I will continue to respond to your points as calmly as is humanly possible. Even when you throw this sort of crap my way. The only thing I'd point out is that me disagreeing with you is not the same as me not listening. And that there has been quite a hell of a lot more cases of people not listening on the digital-distribution-panic side of this argument.

Okay, last bite.

#1. You're comparing toys to video games
#2. Nintendo should've supplied more amiibo's
#3. Physical stuff become collectors items, and so the price goes up. You have the option of just downloading the game if you so please.
#4. I don't care if the company that made the game gets money for it. I want the freedom to share my game or buy it used, the same way I should have the freedom to buy a used movie off of a friend or on Ebay.
#5. Along with 4, you're restricting people to using only one service because of selfishness. You should not give more power to the companies, otherwise the gamers will suffer.

If you guys want to make an argument then please do. I will continue to respond to your points as calmly as is humanly possible. Even when you throw this sort of crap my way. The only thing I'd point out is that me disagreeing with you is not the same as me not listening. And that there has been quite a hell of a lot more cases of people not listening on the digital-distribution-panic side of this argument.

Because the argument is ridiculous. Why take away from people who want an option? You have got to be kidding me.

That's all.