A gamer can make anything hardcore by investing the time, audience or not. Games like, say, Guitar Hero are meant to be fun, but if someone invests the time to get every achievement, get perfects scores on every song, that makes the game hardcore to the owner. Vice versa, someone who owns GTAIV but only runs around, exploring, "doing his own thang" will make it a casual game.
It all comes down to the playstyle of the gamer, though some genre's do traditionally attract hardcore gamers (JRPGs) or casual gamers (mini-game collections), no game is inherently, hardcore or casual.
EDIT: I gotta go though, so let's pick this up tomorrow, okay? Or someone else can continue for me.
A gamer can make anything hardcore by investing the time, audience or not. Games like, say, Guitar Hero are meant to be fun, but if someone invests the time to get every achievement, get perfects scores on every song, that makes the game hardcore to the owner. Vice versa, someone who owns GTAIV but only runs around, exploring, "doing his own thang" will make it a casual game.
It all comes down to the playstyle of the gamer, though some genre's do traditionally attract hardcore gamers (JRPGs) or casual gamers (mini-game collections), no game is inherently, hardcore or casual.
EDIT: I gotta go though, so let's pick this up tomorrow, okay? Or someone else can continue for me.
I like this answer, so same for me
call me Dicesuke Inuzuka, Daisuke, Dice, or Dai. deviant art page: http://dicesukeinuzuka.deviantart.com/
hmm, you make good points, but as I can see, now it comes down to opinion, so I'm going to say this, and then say "agree to disagree"
in my opinion hardcore games are made inherently as such. Certain games are borderlining on the casual/hardcore fence, but for the most part, games are made to be what they are, and little else. I don't really have much else to say...
Bahamut ZERO, I disagree. I think there are hardcore games and there are hardcore gamers, and those are two completely different things.
I disagree with that. A game can have tendencies to generate a crowd that are more lenient towards being "hardcore". But it is always (...can't remember how to bold... just pretend always is in bold, ok?) the gamer that makes a game "hardcore". The same goes for "hardcore" gamers, some gamers may get involved more in rhythm games than shooting game for example, but they can't be labeled as "hardcore" (unless they have obsessive issues lol) because they don't always play those games that hit that certain mark for them.
Hardcore games are those games that take a lot of time and effort to play and especially to finish, like RPGs.
By your very general definition, any game can be hardcore. Take for instance that birthday party game . There could be some 4-year-old playing that game non-stop, trying to "beat" (a game without an ending or some sort of ending achievement can't technically be beat ) it but completely sucks at it. The game takes a lot of time for him to "finish", a lot of effort (all those waggles to beat some of these mini games.
Hardcore gamers are different, because they will play hardcore games, but they'll also play fun, simple games like Mario Party.
Who said "hardcore" games can't be simple, for that matter, who said that "hardcore" games can't be fun?! What about 2-D shooters? Some of them used maybe 2 buttons plus D-pad? lol Doesn't mean that they can't be "hardcore" to some (they aren't my thing). I don't know about anyone else, but games that I really get into, I tend to have loads of fun with.
You don't call someone who only plays "hardcore games" a hardcore gamer, because they haven't tried other games, thus making them an ignorant gamer.
You could call them "so obsessed that they spend all of their time playing the 'hottest' game that they don't realize there are other games out there that can also be deemed good without someone else telling them it is good"
Just because a game is good enough to put hours into it, doesn't make it a hardcore game either. I would never call Wii Music "hardcore" (don't worry, I would NEVER call Guitar Hero hardcore either. I have nothing against Wii Music. I like it alot.) same as I put hours upon hours into Rush 2049, but I wouldn't call it "hardcore" because it's made to be fun gameplay.
Once again, who said that a "hardcore" game can't be fun? Most will consider FPS to be a "hardcore" game genre, so can everyone say that they didn't have fun with Halo's split screen? Or how about a LAN party with Unreal Tournament? I can say that I definitely had some fun times. So if there is such thing as a definite "hardcore" game, then why can't we have fun playing it?!
Hardcore games are about involving the player in a way other games can't. It can be involving because it's difficult, and it presents a unique challenge, like Megaman. It can draw you into another world and intriguing storyline like Zelda or Final Fantasy. Hardcore games challenge the mind, not just stimulate it.
So Wii music can't involve players in ways that other games can't? I think there are some Wii music fans that can disagree with that. It tasks a player with creating new songs using the given set of songs. It is a great outlet for the creative and can really suck you in. I've never really liked the stories in Final Fantasy (found them way too predictable, I think I learned too much from watching movies with my dad...) so I would never consider those games "hardcore" myself. If you're going to go the RPG route, how about WoW, I personally think this game is boring as h*** but there are some (well, millions) who would disagree and some would call it "hardcore".
Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl." Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.
Well, the definition of hardcore is "Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change" so that would mean a bunch of sequels that make little to no improvements between iterations are hardcore games. For example, some might say Animal Crossing City Folk is hardcore because it keeps a lot of aspects from Wild World without adding a whole lot of massive improvements.
I like to think the terms "hardcore" and "casual" don't exist, but of any games I would consider hardcore, I'd consider those with high difficulties. Unless you can beat something like Gradius and Ninja Gaiden, the words "you" and "hardcore" should not even be used in the same sentence.
In my opinion, hardcore describes gamers who play games ALOT and have lots of knowledge of video games and a few collectibles whereas casual defines someone who plays games occasionally and doesn't know what "I AM ERROR" means.
I also say hardcore when I think a game is awesome.
The best strategy in the game: go up stairs and pause balls.
So Wii music can't involve players in ways that other games can't? I think there are some Wii music fans that can disagree with that.
Uh, yeah....Definitely. Wii music, offers different involvement from any other game, just as--I don't know--let's say, Soul Calibur offers a different type of involvement.
It's like James Bond said: Bond: Why do Chinese girls taste different from all other girls? Ling: You think we better, huh? Bond: No, just different. Like Peking Duck is different from Russian Caviar. But I love them both.
This is why I'm saying it comes down to opinion, kind of like the nature vs. nurture argument. Personally, I think there are some games that are meant to just be fun, light and easy games, and then there are games that are specifically geared to the "hardcore". Whether a person likes a "light" game more than a "hardcore" game is their own opinion.
EDIT: Before I get bashed for even bringing up Wii Music again (which I actually liked, so I don't understand the aggression) Nintendo has always been about making their games fun, and that's their top priority. If someone wants to play it obsessively (as I did with Wii Sports) that still doesn't make Wii Sports a hardcore game.
Just because a game is good enough to put hours into it, doesn't make it a hardcore game either. I would never call Wii Music "hardcore" (don't worry, I would NEVER call Guitar Hero hardcore either. I have nothing against Wii Music. I like it alot.) same as I put hours upon hours into Rush 2049, but I wouldn't call it "hardcore" because it's made to be fun gameplay.
Once again, who said that a "hardcore" game can't be fun? Most will consider FPS to be a "hardcore" game genre, so can everyone say that they didn't have fun with Halo's split screen? Or how about a LAN party with Unreal Tournament? I can say that I definitely had some fun times. So if there is such thing as a definite "hardcore" game, then why can't we have fun playing it?!
HAHA! I missed that part the first time I read it. To answer your question with a question " who said that "hardcore" games have to be boring? Certainly not I. That's RIDICULOUS. Why would anyone want to play a boring game. All I'm saying is that there are games that are made to be fun, and then there are games that are made to involve the player more than a few hours of enjoyment. It's just like cartoons and movies. Cartoons are supposed to be fun, light viewing, but if you go and watch Lord of the Rings, it requires more of your attention. Some might like cartoons better than big blockbusters like Lord of the Rings, but the fact is that LotR is supposed to keep you enthralled for over 3 hours, whereas Spongebob gives you 30 minutes of enjoyment, and then you go play baseball.
Ok, I see what you're saying, and our opinions are two completely different things but you're not going to budge on your opinion, I'm good with that. I respect your differing opinion and won't argue it any longer.
Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl." Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.
Ok, I see what you're saying, and our opinions are two completely different things but you're not going to budge on your opinion, I'm good with that. I respect your differing opinion and won't argue it any longer.
That's all I'm trying to say. At a certain point this argument comes down to opinion. Let's shake hands
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Topic: When Do You Say A Game is "Hardcore"?
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