I don't think that playing it "safe" versus incorporating new mechanics was a significant consideration in the design process. I think the game was made mostly for its story, and Fox's attachment to the previously scrapped ideas and characters featured therein. The basics of Deltarune were actually conceived prior to Undertale's completion, and as I understand, the reason we got Undertale instead was because at the time, Toby Fox was unsatisfied with his attempts to implement a party combat system. And I don't see the similarities as an issue. The game is about story first, and succeeds in that.
@YANDMAN Er...in the kindest way possible, the puzzles are meant to be extremely easy. Many of them shouldn't even take 30 seconds to complete. And they're well integrated with the story. So I'm inclined to think that you just have issues with puzzles. But hey, that would make Susie more relatable, right?
Their shares also dropped after the reveal of the Switch.
Not to be negative, but from the most part, the majority of Nintendo's investors seem to be businessmen whose understanding of video games and their market is basically encapsulated by "We see popular mobile games make money, and we want some" In the past, the shares jumped for every weak mobile release while announcements for later successes were completely overlooked. Why continue to worry about investor predictions? Also, it pains me to see how no matter what Nintendo shows, there's no end to the demands for the things they haven't made and backlash when such isn't announced.
@electrolite77 If the comments here are any indication, ports are just the norm right now, regardless of system. Development is just stretched thin. Centering it all on the Switch just means every game that would have been for 3DS becomes a $60 minimum game that takes a correspondingly longer length of time to develop.
Also, you have to understand that Nintendo's strategy works on size and price based niches. Yes, when they tried to continue development for the NES after the Super Nintendo came out, it was a losing battle. Yes, the DS, against all promises to the contrary, replaced the GameBoy line. But a $300 console that can't play existing 3DS carts is not going to eliminate the market for a pocket-sized option as low as $80 that comes with the option to buy one's fill of $5-$10 VC games digitally and has new games that are $50 on the high end. Cutting out their small portable line is just shrinking their net. Just because you prefer the Switch doesn't mean that everyone will benefit from it taking all the development.
The real solution is the more slow, complicated and dicey one of Nintendo hiring and training new yet effective development teams with plenty of fresh and feasible ideas for 1st party titles.
@NewAdvent But not everybody wants to, or more importantly, can spend that much money on games. For a number of kids, their experience with games is going to be hand-me-downs and the cheapest current handheld with maybe as little as one game a year.
That's the point of dividing development, being able to cater to more than one niche.
Besides, "left behind" by whom? Their competitors don't have a firm foot in portable gaming to begin with.
@electrolite77 See, this! This is the wishful thinking with horse blinders. No, there are a number of practical arguments against developing everything for Switch that people are mentioning. And seeing as all Nintendo says on the topic is "we have no plans to stop development for the 3DS," there isn't any solid evidence that that's what they want.
@Pod Maybe. But regardless, the whining was everywhere the subject was mentioned, and was...rather unimpressive. And it shows that there is definite and, ridiculously enough, almost violent wishful thinking directed towards having all games on the Switch.
@Harmonie Mind, perhaps the only reason Pokemon is coming to the Switch is because a bunch of fans lost their minds when they didn't announce such and disliked the "Pokemon Direct" into oblivion.
@Yorumi First of all, the Wii U doesn't count because it was a disappointment that couldn't get solid 3rd party support, which means fewer titles automatically. Secondly, development is going to be slow no matter what. Having all games developed for the Switch would require upscaling them, which means longer development time and fewer games produced over time altogether. Also, the age of DLC means that most 1st party games' development doesn't end with publication, so teams can't jump straight into new projects anyway because they're still working on ARMS and Super Mario Odyssey and for all we know even Breath of the Wild. Also, a lot of current A-list 3rd party titles still aren't making it to Switch now because it is comparatively underpowered and has unique controls. And increased complexity of games does remain relevant because every first party title "needs" to be bigger and badder than all previous iterations...except for spinoff titles, which, wouldn't you know, often find a home on the more humble handheld systems.
Basically, Nintendo is still left to do most of the heavy lifting, and their current strategy is heavily weighted towards quality over quantity, like it or not, and eliminating the 3DS just takes away the more condensed development path.
@Yorumi Are you sure? The Wii and the original DS shared lifespans. And what console of theirs didn't have a handheld sold alongside it? Where's your frame of reference?
Even if the Wikipad's "flexible bridge connecting controllers" aspect isn't enough to throw out the lawsuit, the below patent of Nintendo's was originally published May 1, 2014, a good year before the Wikipad's. Sheet 10 of 11 shows an "opposing sides" configuration for removable controllers. Even if this is not enough to protect Nintendo from legal action, I think it's pretty clear evidence that Nintendo imagined and patented the basic concepts of the Switch's controllers on their own, as they were already experimenting with the idea pre-Wikipad.
@sdelfin But I don't think anybody would even be getting four hundred and fifty dollars' worth from this. I mean, if nothing else, how much do you think one of these is going to sell for ten years from now, even if it is in fact in as perfect of condition as when it was bought? The "new" features it brings will probably be outdated, yet it will have neither the age, the historical impact, nor even Nintendo's branding to give it any value as a collectors item. The only person who'd want to pay anywhere near the original price for one would be a collector with an especially powerful fondness for knockoffs--because, ultimately, no matter how nice this is, no matter how much it out-NES-es the NES, that's all this will ever be. At least other knockoffs are affordable. The cost of this, however, seems to mainly come from its grooming the ego of retro gamers, and, ultimately, I think that such gamers should see this as an insult to their taste and intelligence more than anything else. In my opinion, this is the equivalent of a Model T remake being sold by Tesla motors for the price of a Porsche. It looks nice, and it might even be as hardy as they claim it is, but its cost is just too high no matter what angle you're coming from.
I'm starting to wonder if Analogue is paying these sites off to hype this up. Even on eBay, one can buy a fully functional, original NES bundle complete with zapper, Nintendo's official top loader with a sizable bundle of cartridges, a unit of a knockoff brand's console for each month of the year, or a quality kit to build one's own, each one of these options for LESS THAN HALF the cost of this behemoth. Or one could just use the money to get one's original console serviced any time it has an issue and still have money to buy an NES classic to fulfill the need to see 8-bit in HD. And seriously, if this is the "serious" call back to nostalgia, then why the need for HD and wireless controllers with extra buttons? Also, aren't we forgetting the fact that THE NES ZAPPER WON'T EVEN WORK WITH AN LCD TV? And this won't even have any real value as a collectors item; it's a modern remake that's not even from the official brand. Plus, this comes with NO GAMES OF ITS OWN. Sure, this will play 2000 different cartridges...but just how many of those does someone even own and feel the need to play in HD that aren't already on the NES Classic's list? Three? Five, perhaps? And remember, cross off Duck Hunt, because the zapper keeps it on the glass screen. $450 is a lot of money to pay just to squeeze a couple extra steps out of trips down memory lane. I have a feeling that most people who cough up for an Nt Mini are going to find that it spends most of its time on the shelf, unplayed and unloved, neither a thing of today nor the past.
Comments 18
Re: Review: DELTARUNE Chapter 1 - A Welcome Successor To Undertale That Plays It A Little Too Safe
I don't think that playing it "safe" versus incorporating new mechanics was a significant consideration in the design process. I think the game was made mostly for its story, and Fox's attachment to the previously scrapped ideas and characters featured therein. The basics of Deltarune were actually conceived prior to Undertale's completion, and as I understand, the reason we got Undertale instead was because at the time, Toby Fox was unsatisfied with his attempts to implement a party combat system. And I don't see the similarities as an issue. The game is about story first, and succeeds in that.
Re: Review: DELTARUNE Chapter 1 - A Welcome Successor To Undertale That Plays It A Little Too Safe
@YANDMAN Er...in the kindest way possible, the puzzles are meant to be extremely easy. Many of them shouldn't even take 30 seconds to complete. And they're well integrated with the story. So I'm inclined to think that you just have issues with puzzles. But hey, that would make Susie more relatable, right?
Re: Random: Splatoon 2 Player Hacks In-Game Leaderboard To Send Nintendo A Message
@NEStalgia But what real damage was done? Nintendo has already taken the hacked scores down.
Re: Random: Splatoon 2 Player Hacks In-Game Leaderboard To Send Nintendo A Message
@Stocksy ...Is this satire?
Re: Nintendo's Share Price Plummets In Response To E3 Direct
Their shares also dropped after the reveal of the Switch.
Not to be negative, but from the most part, the majority of Nintendo's investors seem to be businessmen whose understanding of video games and their market is basically encapsulated by "We see popular mobile games make money, and we want some" In the past, the shares jumped for every weak mobile release while announcements for later successes were completely overlooked. Why continue to worry about investor predictions?
Also, it pains me to see how no matter what Nintendo shows, there's no end to the demands for the things they haven't made and backlash when such isn't announced.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
Having a basis for comparison.
For instance:
Super Mario Odyssey trailer (the E3 one with the T-Rex and "Jump Up, Super Star"): 282K+/17K- (5.7%-)
Nintendo Labo ("$70 for CARDBOARD BABY TOYS!?"): 293K+/39K- (11.7%-)
Pokemon Direct: 19K+/4.8K- (20.2%-)
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@electrolite77 If the comments here are any indication, ports are just the norm right now, regardless of system. Development is just stretched thin. Centering it all on the Switch just means every game that would have been for 3DS becomes a $60 minimum game that takes a correspondingly longer length of time to develop.
Also, you have to understand that Nintendo's strategy works on size and price based niches. Yes, when they tried to continue development for the NES after the Super Nintendo came out, it was a losing battle. Yes, the DS, against all promises to the contrary, replaced the GameBoy line. But a $300 console that can't play existing 3DS carts is not going to eliminate the market for a pocket-sized option as low as $80 that comes with the option to buy one's fill of $5-$10 VC games digitally and has new games that are $50 on the high end. Cutting out their small portable line is just shrinking their net. Just because you prefer the Switch doesn't mean that everyone will benefit from it taking all the development.
The real solution is the more slow, complicated and dicey one of Nintendo hiring and training new yet effective development teams with plenty of fresh and feasible ideas for 1st party titles.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@NewAdvent But not everybody wants to, or more importantly, can spend that much money on games. For a number of kids, their experience with games is going to be hand-me-downs and the cheapest current handheld with maybe as little as one game a year.
That's the point of dividing development, being able to cater to more than one niche.
Besides, "left behind" by whom? Their competitors don't have a firm foot in portable gaming to begin with.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@electrolite77 See, this! This is the wishful thinking with horse blinders. No, there are a number of practical arguments against developing everything for Switch that people are mentioning. And seeing as all Nintendo says on the topic is "we have no plans to stop development for the 3DS," there isn't any solid evidence that that's what they want.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@Pod Maybe. But regardless, the whining was everywhere the subject was mentioned, and was...rather unimpressive. And it shows that there is definite and, ridiculously enough, almost violent wishful thinking directed towards having all games on the Switch.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@NewAdvent Um...no. Not everyone agrees on this. Read the comments. And since when have other companies' strategies worked for Nintendo?
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@Harmonie Mind, perhaps the only reason Pokemon is coming to the Switch is because a bunch of fans lost their minds when they didn't announce such and disliked the "Pokemon Direct" into oblivion.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person System"
@Yorumi First of all, the Wii U doesn't count because it was a disappointment that couldn't get solid 3rd party support, which means fewer titles automatically. Secondly, development is going to be slow no matter what. Having all games developed for the Switch would require upscaling them, which means longer development time and fewer games produced over time altogether. Also, the age of DLC means that most 1st party games' development doesn't end with publication, so teams can't jump straight into new projects anyway because they're still working on ARMS and Super Mario Odyssey and for all we know even Breath of the Wild. Also, a lot of current A-list 3rd party titles still aren't making it to Switch now because it is comparatively underpowered and has unique controls. And increased complexity of games does remain relevant because every first party title "needs" to be bigger and badder than all previous iterations...except for spinoff titles, which, wouldn't you know, often find a home on the more humble handheld systems.
Basically, Nintendo is still left to do most of the heavy lifting, and their current strategy is heavily weighted towards quality over quantity, like it or not, and eliminating the 3DS just takes away the more condensed development path.
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person-System"
@NewAdvent ...You just want all their games on one system, don't you?
Re: Nintendo Says 3DS Will Keep Being Sold Unless Switch Becomes A "One-Per-Person-System"
@Yorumi Are you sure? The Wii and the original DS shared lifespans. And what console of theirs didn't have a handheld sold alongside it? Where's your frame of reference?
Re: Gamevice Wants The US To Block Nintendo Switch Imports Because It Infringes On Its Patents
Even if the Wikipad's "flexible bridge connecting controllers" aspect isn't enough to throw out the lawsuit, the below patent of Nintendo's was originally published May 1, 2014, a good year before the Wikipad's. Sheet 10 of 11 shows an "opposing sides" configuration for removable controllers. Even if this is not enough to protect Nintendo from legal action, I think it's pretty clear evidence that Nintendo imagined and patented the basic concepts of the Switch's controllers on their own, as they were already experimenting with the idea pre-Wikipad.
Nintendo isn't robbing anyone.
pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=09420404&IDKey=C0368204E269%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526co1%3DAND%2526d%3DPTXT%2526s1%3Dnintendo.AANM.%2526OS%3DAANM%2Fnintendo%2526RS%3DAANM%2Fnintendo
Re: Forget The NES Classic Edition Mini, Here's The Analogue Nt Mini
@sdelfin But I don't think anybody would even be getting four hundred and fifty dollars' worth from this. I mean, if nothing else, how much do you think one of these is going to sell for ten years from now, even if it is in fact in as perfect of condition as when it was bought? The "new" features it brings will probably be outdated, yet it will have neither the age, the historical impact, nor even Nintendo's branding to give it any value as a collectors item. The only person who'd want to pay anywhere near the original price for one would be a collector with an especially powerful fondness for knockoffs--because, ultimately, no matter how nice this is, no matter how much it out-NES-es the NES, that's all this will ever be. At least other knockoffs are affordable. The cost of this, however, seems to mainly come from its grooming the ego of retro gamers, and, ultimately, I think that such gamers should see this as an insult to their taste and intelligence more than anything else. In my opinion, this is the equivalent of a Model T remake being sold by Tesla motors for the price of a Porsche. It looks nice, and it might even be as hardy as they claim it is, but its cost is just too high no matter what angle you're coming from.
Re: Forget The NES Classic Edition Mini, Here's The Analogue Nt Mini
I'm starting to wonder if Analogue is paying these sites off to hype this up. Even on eBay, one can buy a fully functional, original NES bundle complete with zapper, Nintendo's official top loader with a sizable bundle of cartridges, a unit of a knockoff brand's console for each month of the year, or a quality kit to build one's own, each one of these options for LESS THAN HALF the cost of this behemoth. Or one could just use the money to get one's original console serviced any time it has an issue and still have money to buy an NES classic to fulfill the need to see 8-bit in HD. And seriously, if this is the "serious" call back to nostalgia, then why the need for HD and wireless controllers with extra buttons? Also, aren't we forgetting the fact that THE NES ZAPPER WON'T EVEN WORK WITH AN LCD TV? And this won't even have any real value as a collectors item; it's a modern remake that's not even from the official brand. Plus, this comes with NO GAMES OF ITS OWN. Sure, this will play 2000 different cartridges...but just how many of those does someone even own and feel the need to play in HD that aren't already on the NES Classic's list? Three? Five, perhaps? And remember, cross off Duck Hunt, because the zapper keeps it on the glass screen. $450 is a lot of money to pay just to squeeze a couple extra steps out of trips down memory lane. I have a feeling that most people who cough up for an Nt Mini are going to find that it spends most of its time on the shelf, unplayed and unloved, neither a thing of today nor the past.