@BartoxTharglod I think we’re starting to line up with one another here. I totally agree, this is how capitalism works. Supply/Demand, invisible hand of the market, and all that. It’s not always a bad thing either. There’s no economic system that promotes the kind of technological innovation that has given us videogames in the first place better than free-market capitalism. 100% on the same page… vote with your dollars and look out for yourself and your own value first.
Where I think we might disagree is whether the fact that the singular “you” has a responsibility to look out for themselves justifies the statement that those who benefit from exploitative systems have no further responsibility to the plural and indefinite “you”.
From here we could dive into a philosophical debate about the role and existence of business ethics in a free market system, but I’ll be honest, that would put me out of my depth.
Frankly, I’m just not a fan of people (apologies, I don’t mean this as a veiled dig at you personally, but rather a big subset of people arguing on Nintendo’s behalf with a super surface level understanding of the mechanics of what is actually happening) using egalitarianism to hand-wave away exploitation of the little guy. I suppose it’s a consequence of spending a decade in HR.
EDIT: Also, thanks for actually engaging in this debate with me. Refreshing to get into a back and forth with someone who has actual depth and thought to their arguments.
@blindsquarel you’re really going to try and say that testers aren’t important? Everyone who bought Cyberpunk, Fallout 76 (really ANY Bethesda game) Mass Effect Andromeda, any WWE/Madden/FIFA/NBA2K game, Aliens Colonial Marines, like every Battlefield game, Hello Neighbor, GTA trilogy, and Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood… would like to have a word with you
Also, dude, again, we’re not talking about individual’s career decisions here. Like I said (if you had actually read my comment) I haven’t been a contractor in a long time. I have a degree. I make as much or more a year than a lot of the software engineers I used to recruit earlier in my career. I got out, and plenty of other people have too.
That doesn’t make the system any less ***** for people who haven’t gotten out yet, and it doesn’t mean that the people who exploit the system for their own gain should be allowed to keep ***** people over.
@BartoxTharglod you got me, I was oversimplifying a bit for the sake of brevity (not that I was all that successful, given how long my comment ended up being anyways). Not all highly skilled technical contractors are hired on a 1099 basis, some are definitely hired on a W-2 temp basis, and a lot of them do do quite well for themselves (again, I speak from experience here, as the first half of my recruiting career was spent hiring software engineers on contract for clients like Microsoft).
The important division here is really more around the relative vulnerability to exploitation of lower paid “unskilled” workers compared to the negotiating leverage and marketability of “skilled” workers.
Like I said, I haven’t been a temp worker in a long time, so you don’t need to tell me. I got out.
I’m glad we agree that the system sucks… and I think recent history with companies like Uber has proven that “whinging about it” publicly is a GREAT way to get companies to start addressing those ***** systems, hence talking about it here.
“Exploitative systems suck, so stop whining and go somewhere less exploitative” is a real great way to make everything worse for everyone. Not holding the people who design and benefit from the exploitative system accountable sends a message to other companies and industries about how easy it is to get away with exploiting their own workers.
@BartoxTharglod The issue here isn’t “not being treated like a permanent employee”… sure, being treated like a second class citizen sucks, but if that was all it was, that’s something that I can tell you first-hand that those employees could (and do) live with without raising complaints.
The issue here is being underpaid, not being given access to trustworthy HR support, not receiving healthcare benefits, being turned away from onsite medical support in emergency situations, and being exploited in any number of extremely dubious and unethical ways by a system designed to squeeze workers for the benefit of higher ups.
@BartoxTharglod THESE types of contract workers are generally treated as second class citizens. They’re often not allowed in the same places as workers employed by Nintendo directly (in this case, contract employees aren’t even allowed to enter the main office building through the front entrance), they often have to go through a different HR to lodge complaints (usually managed by the contract agency, which is heavily incentivized to ignore those complaints in order to avoid rocking the boat with Nintendo, because, after all, why risk their cash cow services contract to stick up for a “replaceable” $16/hr worker), and they are hired through different processes via the contract agencies (who are incentivized to dangle the possibility of this 11-month contract being a foot in the door to internal employment with Nintendo if you just work really really hard, despite knowing that the chances of that happening are only marginally better than winning the lottery).
The system is exploitative and gross, and it’s a problem everywhere in tech. I know because I’ve seen both sides of it. During a career transition, in order to make ends meet for a bit, I worked one of the 11-month contracts this article is talking about at Nintendo in the call center several years ago and saw it all first-hand. I actually left that job to accept my first entry-level position in as a recruiter at a totally separate contract agency in Seattle, and I’ve been in recruiting ever since. Fortunately, I am now employed as an internal recruiter at one of the FAANG companies, and the gray area that contract agencies often operate in is one of the big reasons that I left.
I should also note that what I’ve described here makes the agencies look like the villains, and that’s not entirely fair. It’s a system that is designed to benefit the executives of the companies involved at the expense of the workers (ESPECIALLY the part time and contract workers).
Considering skilled 1099 contractors and W-2 contractors to be the in the same situation, because “oh whatever, they’re all ‘contractors’” is EXACTLY how these executives WANT you to think about all of this, because it makes it so much easier to hand wave away the abusive nature of the system.
@BartoxTharglod Bruh, I’m not sure you understand the difference between 1099 contracting and the kind of contracting they’re talking about in this article. What you’re describing is usually going to be 1099 contracting, which is almost always highly skilled technical workers who offer their services organized under an individual LLC. They get paid bank because they’re considered to be working for their own company, so they’re responsible for things like paying their own income and social security taxes, providing their own health insurance benefits, and any administrative costs that would normally be covered by an employer. These types of 1099 arrangements are usually pursued by the contractor because they know that (1) they have a skill set rare and valuable enough to get potential employers to go for unconventional employment terms in order to secure their services, and (2) they have the organizational structures in place to logistically handle being their own employer.
What this article is talking about is W-2 contract employees. Rather than being their own employer, these employees work onsite for Nintendo, but are technically employed by a separate contract agency. Nintendo pays this agency a flat rate for services rendered, and that agency pays their employees (I.e. the “contract and part time workers” discussed in the article) an hourly wage, and handles their payroll, taxes, and benefits (if there are any). These agencies are used by Nintendo to handle things like call center services and basic game testing, both of which are generally not considered to be highly technical positions, like what you would see with 1099 contractors.
The criticism here is that this W-2 based third party agency system is HIGHLY exploitative of the w-2 contractors. For example, the agencies often employ a small enough number of people that they are able to take advantages of ACA loopholes designed for small local businesses that allow companies with a certain minimum number of employees to not provide medical insurance benefits (which Nintendo would otherwise have to pay if they employed these workers directly, because they most certainly do not qualify for those loopholes).
“…the problems are leading to tensions in the building” is some grade-A irony, given that most contractors (call center and testers) are sequestered in an older building on campus away from the main offices (and aren’t allowed to use the front lobby entrance when going to the main building)…
Comments 8
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@BreathingMiit well ***** said
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@BartoxTharglod I think we’re starting to line up with one another here. I totally agree, this is how capitalism works. Supply/Demand, invisible hand of the market, and all that. It’s not always a bad thing either. There’s no economic system that promotes the kind of technological innovation that has given us videogames in the first place better than free-market capitalism. 100% on the same page… vote with your dollars and look out for yourself and your own value first.
Where I think we might disagree is whether the fact that the singular “you” has a responsibility to look out for themselves justifies the statement that those who benefit from exploitative systems have no further responsibility to the plural and indefinite “you”.
From here we could dive into a philosophical debate about the role and existence of business ethics in a free market system, but I’ll be honest, that would put me out of my depth.
Frankly, I’m just not a fan of people (apologies, I don’t mean this as a veiled dig at you personally, but rather a big subset of people arguing on Nintendo’s behalf with a super surface level understanding of the mechanics of what is actually happening) using egalitarianism to hand-wave away exploitation of the little guy. I suppose it’s a consequence of spending a decade in HR.
EDIT: Also, thanks for actually engaging in this debate with me. Refreshing to get into a back and forth with someone who has actual depth and thought to their arguments.
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@blindsquarel you’re really going to try and say that testers aren’t important? Everyone who bought Cyberpunk, Fallout 76 (really ANY Bethesda game) Mass Effect Andromeda, any WWE/Madden/FIFA/NBA2K game, Aliens Colonial Marines, like every Battlefield game, Hello Neighbor, GTA trilogy, and Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood… would like to have a word with you
Also, dude, again, we’re not talking about individual’s career decisions here. Like I said (if you had actually read my comment) I haven’t been a contractor in a long time. I have a degree. I make as much or more a year than a lot of the software engineers I used to recruit earlier in my career. I got out, and plenty of other people have too.
That doesn’t make the system any less ***** for people who haven’t gotten out yet, and it doesn’t mean that the people who exploit the system for their own gain should be allowed to keep ***** people over.
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@BartoxTharglod you got me, I was oversimplifying a bit for the sake of brevity (not that I was all that successful, given how long my comment ended up being anyways). Not all highly skilled technical contractors are hired on a 1099 basis, some are definitely hired on a W-2 temp basis, and a lot of them do do quite well for themselves (again, I speak from experience here, as the first half of my recruiting career was spent hiring software engineers on contract for clients like Microsoft).
The important division here is really more around the relative vulnerability to exploitation of lower paid “unskilled” workers compared to the negotiating leverage and marketability of “skilled” workers.
Like I said, I haven’t been a temp worker in a long time, so you don’t need to tell me. I got out.
I’m glad we agree that the system sucks… and I think recent history with companies like Uber has proven that “whinging about it” publicly is a GREAT way to get companies to start addressing those ***** systems, hence talking about it here.
“Exploitative systems suck, so stop whining and go somewhere less exploitative” is a real great way to make everything worse for everyone. Not holding the people who design and benefit from the exploitative system accountable sends a message to other companies and industries about how easy it is to get away with exploiting their own workers.
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@BartoxTharglod The issue here isn’t “not being treated like a permanent employee”… sure, being treated like a second class citizen sucks, but if that was all it was, that’s something that I can tell you first-hand that those employees could (and do) live with without raising complaints.
The issue here is being underpaid, not being given access to trustworthy HR support, not receiving healthcare benefits, being turned away from onsite medical support in emergency situations, and being exploited in any number of extremely dubious and unethical ways by a system designed to squeeze workers for the benefit of higher ups.
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@BartoxTharglod THESE types of contract workers are generally treated as second class citizens. They’re often not allowed in the same places as workers employed by Nintendo directly (in this case, contract employees aren’t even allowed to enter the main office building through the front entrance), they often have to go through a different HR to lodge complaints (usually managed by the contract agency, which is heavily incentivized to ignore those complaints in order to avoid rocking the boat with Nintendo, because, after all, why risk their cash cow services contract to stick up for a “replaceable” $16/hr worker), and they are hired through different processes via the contract agencies (who are incentivized to dangle the possibility of this 11-month contract being a foot in the door to internal employment with Nintendo if you just work really really hard, despite knowing that the chances of that happening are only marginally better than winning the lottery).
The system is exploitative and gross, and it’s a problem everywhere in tech. I know because I’ve seen both sides of it. During a career transition, in order to make ends meet for a bit, I worked one of the 11-month contracts this article is talking about at Nintendo in the call center several years ago and saw it all first-hand. I actually left that job to accept my first entry-level position in as a recruiter at a totally separate contract agency in Seattle, and I’ve been in recruiting ever since. Fortunately, I am now employed as an internal recruiter at one of the FAANG companies, and the gray area that contract agencies often operate in is one of the big reasons that I left.
I should also note that what I’ve described here makes the agencies look like the villains, and that’s not entirely fair. It’s a system that is designed to benefit the executives of the companies involved at the expense of the workers (ESPECIALLY the part time and contract workers).
Considering skilled 1099 contractors and W-2 contractors to be the in the same situation, because “oh whatever, they’re all ‘contractors’” is EXACTLY how these executives WANT you to think about all of this, because it makes it so much easier to hand wave away the abusive nature of the system.
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
@BartoxTharglod Bruh, I’m not sure you understand the difference between 1099 contracting and the kind of contracting they’re talking about in this article. What you’re describing is usually going to be 1099 contracting, which is almost always highly skilled technical workers who offer their services organized under an individual LLC. They get paid bank because they’re considered to be working for their own company, so they’re responsible for things like paying their own income and social security taxes, providing their own health insurance benefits, and any administrative costs that would normally be covered by an employer. These types of 1099 arrangements are usually pursued by the contractor because they know that (1) they have a skill set rare and valuable enough to get potential employers to go for unconventional employment terms in order to secure their services, and (2) they have the organizational structures in place to logistically handle being their own employer.
What this article is talking about is W-2 contract employees. Rather than being their own employer, these employees work onsite for Nintendo, but are technically employed by a separate contract agency. Nintendo pays this agency a flat rate for services rendered, and that agency pays their employees (I.e. the “contract and part time workers” discussed in the article) an hourly wage, and handles their payroll, taxes, and benefits (if there are any). These agencies are used by Nintendo to handle things like call center services and basic game testing, both of which are generally not considered to be highly technical positions, like what you would see with 1099 contractors.
The criticism here is that this W-2 based third party agency system is HIGHLY exploitative of the w-2 contractors. For example, the agencies often employ a small enough number of people that they are able to take advantages of ACA loopholes designed for small local businesses that allow companies with a certain minimum number of employees to not provide medical insurance benefits (which Nintendo would otherwise have to pay if they employed these workers directly, because they most certainly do not qualify for those loopholes).
Re: Nintendo Of America Criticised Over Treatment Of Part-Time And Contract Workers
“…the problems are leading to tensions in the building” is some grade-A irony, given that most contractors (call center and testers) are sequestered in an older building on campus away from the main offices (and aren’t allowed to use the front lobby entrance when going to the main building)…