Takashi Iizuka Explains Timeline Placement Of Sonic Superstars

I was truly shocked when I first heard that Sonic had a timeline. They get surprisingly deep with that sort of thing in The fan base.

Gotta be amongst the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I'm guessing that's why Classic Amy can have her Modern outfit, as this is when she starts to transition to her Modern look.

I will generally go to bat for a great deal of Sonic nonsense, but at no point have I ever been concerned about which point in the Mobius Historia am I doing loop-de-loops and jumping on robot monkeys

id ***** on this but zelda has a worse timeline so i guess sonic wins in this aspect

It's nice to have confirmation that they actually consider Mania canon, and that it's all the same timeline (rather than treating "classic" Sonic as its own separate thing).

@epicgamner Fans wanted one, and Nintendo just stitched it together. I recall when "The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes" was released, there was a small vocal minority who rejected the idea it was apart of the offical timeline.

Right after "A Link Between Worlds."

@Vexx234 yeah, well fans usually dont know what they want until they get it and dont like it

@Vexx234
The Zelda fan base is weird. It seems like the only games that can be a part of the timeline are the ones that fit their personal theories and ideas. Which leads to a million different timelines that all make less sense than the official one.

...am I the only one who doesn't play games for the timeline and lore, I just wanna smash up enemies!

Where’s my Mario Kart timeline, and when an how does it sync up with F-Zero and Zelda?

@HenryKibble I'm cool with a timeline, and lore when it's well thought out, and planned accordingly. Some of my favorite games have done this, and I enjoy an ever evolving story that gives characters a start and finish.

Everyone has their preferences. Some people just enjoy game play, while others enjoy a immersive world rich with storytelling.

Luckily, there's enough room for both to co-exist.

@Quiet2down Strangely, the only game series I invest into the lore instead of playing it is "Five Nights at Freddy's" (because I'm too scared)

I know people will dunk on this and I honestly don't take this very serously, despite this mini info dump (and probably many more posts because I find it fun to talk about this stuff!) But there's a tonne of Sonic media not just the "run fast and do loops" games. They are making a conscious effort nowadays to make the comics, series, movies, and games all work together, and literally recently hired a lore manager to try and retcon as much of the previous stuff as possible, to answer common fan questions and help them feel that whichever continuity they grew up with is at least remembered and respected, if not fully adopted.

(There are at least 3 completely different sets of comics (Archie, Fleetway, IDW... also manga) and multiple runs of alternate universe tv shows. Every one of them is "Sonic's backstory" to somebody who grew up with them. Right here as I'm typing I've got a bunch of full Sonic novels (written books, not graphic novels!), and a run of the Fleetway comics, which have my favourite origin for Robotnik, a Chaotix based Archie special, some IDW...)

There will never be perfect answers for everything, and I don't think even the most obsessive of fans need that. But its nice to have things at least roughly make sense in your head canon, and not have your favourite character or plotlines be erased - its rather "they haven't met them yet" or "they live on a different island" etc.

To me, it was obvious that Superstars is after Mania, both because of Amy having the choice of outfits and Lego Sonic having green eyes (its like their awkward tween stage!) and because its basically "Sonic 5" to Mania's "Sonic 4". (the 2 games poorly labeled as Sonic 4 episodes are actually just partial remakes of Sonic 1 and 2. And we don't talk about them! lol )

My main takeaway from all of this is its very likely Mighty and Ray will be added to the game at a later stage. And the rest of the Chaotix, please? Also, its possible that both Trip and Fang will be added to new games moving forward, as well as potential "modern" forms for all the classic characters that haven't made the jump yet. I'd love that.

@samuelvictor I'm not dunking on anything personally.

Games were a new medium before the crash, and after it rebounded still young. I'm pretty sure alot devs back then, couldn't even begin to envision how much the medium had rapidly evolved over the years.

Back then, they were focused on the moment, not the far future. All these lore and timelines stuff is just a side effect of games managing to becoming popular enough, that it spawned sequels that would span decades.

I'm 100% sure a young Miyamoto and Yuji Naka didn't imagine their creations would live all the way to 2023.

That doesn't make any sense.

Tho, they're pretty much saying they ditched them after Superstars, oof.

You know, it kinda gets weird because didn’t mania sonic show up in forces timeline? Unless they scrapped it with frontiers because I know they established some new canon but I rmemeber them mentioning forces, so how does that work?

@Vexx234 Sorry, I shouldn't have said "you all", I've gone back and edited my wording - but I was only half serious anyway. I get that this stuff isn't that serious and there's no possible way to make it all make full sense anyways. Thats all I meant.

I definitely think you are right though. Even though Sonic was created as a direct rival to Mario with the intention of being a brand mascot, I'm not sure anyone at either Sega or Nintendo was really sure that their mascot characters would still be going strong several decades later... they could have had no concept what videogames would evolve into over time, or if the market would even exist in a form they would be able to imagine.

Though while Mario's creation was somewhat of a happy accident (losing Popeye license, needing replacement game for failed existign arcade cabinets) combined with forced technology limits (colours, moustache, dungarees), Sonic was at least designed to be similar to Mickey Mouse in his broad appeal and as a brand that would exist outside of "only" videogames with animations and comics planned right from the start. So they probably hoped that he would last and tried to design something that could stand the test of time, rather than Mario's more accidental origins then being developped into a more long term brand friendly mascot over time through different iterations.

@MirrorFate2 I'm fairly sure we'll get more "classic" / 2d games that happen after Superstars and before Adventure. I'm sure they'll find a good reason for Trip and Fang to dissapear for a while (maybe Trip moves to a specific island to protect an emerald or whatever), but there's always potential for them to come back in new games set in the modern timeline too, now they've established that the classic and modern versions are the same characters, just older (which they have previously resisted for reasons that never made sense to me).

I'm really hoping there's a Superstars 2 or whatever and Trip is playabel from the begining. I love her and want her to become a staple character. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with her in the IDW comics to flesh out her character and backstory.

@samuelvictor I didn't take what you said personally. Just giving an excuse as to why things may seem a bit everywhere when it comes timelines, lore and stuff.

@Snatcher I think the arguement is now that Classic and Modern Sonic are the same character at different points in time, and games that have them both are just Sonic time travelling to help himself.

This makes far more sense to me that what they used to say, that they were actually different characters from a different dimension/multiverse. The only reason they even went with that convoluted explanation in the first place is when they made the modern versions for Adventure they retconed so that the age gaps between the characters of Sonic/Tails/Knux/Amy were smaller, perhaps allowing for romance between Sonic and Amy if they wanted to lean into that further down the line.

@Vexx234 Oh yeah, totally. Like I said I agree with you. I think a lot of what decisions were made were short term decisions and they didn't think too deeply about the long term lore because who'd expect fans would still care about lots of the incidental stuff 30+ years later? Especailly when licenscing out the property to different comics, cartoon shows etc - thats where it gets really messy!

@samuelvictor oooooh! That makes much more sense, but why didn’t they just say that? Jeez I mean they kinda do but manias secret ending was pretty cryptic they just suggest it, plus i didn’t know the mania timeline let alone it being canon lol. Thanks!

@Snatcher Its only extremely recently that they started to seriously trying to nail this stuff down. Earlier this year Katie headhunted a dude from twitter who seemed to be very knowledgable on Sonic lore and Sega of America hired him to be a proper lore master and help collate all the old stuff and make sense of everything, and basically reached out to Sonic Team and were like "uhhh, now that the brand is having a moment, with the huge success of the movies, comics, people wanting to make shows, more merch etc... we really need to get everything straight. Can we collaborate and agree on a solid canon moving forward so that everything will work well together?".

They make sure that the comics stuff, marketing team, tv producers, movie writers and all the difefrent teams making games (including mobile, speed simulator etc) are on the same page as far as the story and lore beats. They discussed this on a recent live stream on the official Sonic YouTube channel. The dude they hired seems great, just as obsessively nerding out about the tiniest forgotten detail as you'd hope someone hired to do that job would be.

Iizuka and Kishimito have both separately stated that they are really happy with how loved Sonic is in the west and how seriously fans take everything and embrace even the "bad" things of the past, and they want to make sure all areas of the Sonic fanbase are happy with all media moving forward and feel seen/represented. 😀

Shadow really was the glue for the timeline.

There's no continuity after 2006 so the way I see it, the timeline ended a long time ago.

But why be boring? If we follow the rules set by Sonic X, Sonic's planet has a different bs time flow, so technically you could fit everything, even the SatAM canon into it.

@AlienX Yeah. Spoilers for second movie: I'm really looking forward to seeing how they handle Shadow in the third movie, especially now that they've decided the movies and comics are canon in how the characters are portrayed in the games moving forward.

@AlienX @samuelvictor We can also follow Sonic Prime's example and just say everything exists within a many-worlds interpretation.

I don't know if you ever heard of that, but the theory goes: For action you take, you create a parallel world.

There could exist an infinite number of Shadows, who all branched from every decision the original Shadow made over the course of Sonic Adventure 2.

@Quiet2down Yes, that's certainly what they used to claim. Famously, repeatedly in interviews and especially at public events, when questioned if something was canon, Sega would just hardline say "everything is canon!" so as to not offend fans of something, even when pushed about obscure only semi official stuff like Sonic Schoolhouse, Sonic Eraser, or the weird LeapFrog version of Sonic 1 where maths and spelling problems keep blocking the the way. 😂 If questioned further on discrepancies between things like different backstories in different comics or whatever, they've repeatedly used the multiverse / infinitely splitting thing.

The conscious effort is to now try and retcon as much old stuff as is reasonably possible, and make everything moving forward more straightforward. But yeah, I'm 100% sure there will still sometimes be jumping between alternate multiverses and time travelling. Thats innevitable is you don't want to exclude some cool teamups and fun ideas. 😀 But it shouldn't be an all purpose "get out of jail card" for not caring about this stuff moving forward, so now Sonic's international audience is growing rapidly again and becoming popular with new generations of young fans and not just us old-guard, making stuff simple is a good idea.

@samuelvictor You telling me you don't want a canon version of Sonic where his greatest enemy is homework?

@Vexx234 lol no I absolutely do! I find it hilarious. Right now as we speak I'm making final notes before recording a ridiculously long YouTube vide where I review every single Sonic game all the way up to superstars. I'm not even sure how long it will end up. 5 hours? 10 hours? 😱 I live for the weird stuff, and the historical context of it all.

@HenryKibble
Nah, timelines are cool and can be kinda fun to look at, but at the end of the day they don’t matter much.

So now they do acknowledge the or 'a' timeline.

Classic Sonic is just younger Sonic. They can do alot between the times of classic and modern, the whole lore could take place witin 3 years of the characters developing. They are still teens when Adventure starts and he is 15 then, Tails is 8 and Amy is 12 years, so Classic Sonics timeline could start 2 years before that, Sonic being 13, Tails being 6 and Amy 10.
I dont know if they already did this but they might retconned tails being a bit older 8 to 10 years between classic and modern.

@Sanangelo89 Yes exactly, I'm all for a series of games between Superstars and Adventure where they are tweens, with elements of classic and modern being added. When does Sonic canonically learn his homing attack, for example?

Seeing classic Amy with her modern dress was the first hint that this might become a thing. I'm all for it, and especially think it could have really interesting arcs for the IDW comic series.

"Mania = Sonic 4, Superstars = Sonic 5 confirmed"

The fact that Sonic has an official timeline is yet another reason why Mario games will always be better.

@LEGEND_MARIOID But where does that leave Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2?

@LEGEND_MARIOID There already is a Sonic 4, even if people hate it.

But what about Sonic Pocket Adventure?

@DripDropCop146 As I said above, despite their (stupid) names, Sonic 4 Espiode 1 is a "reimagining" of Sonic 1, and Episode 2 of Sonic 2. So thats where they would fit into the timeline canonically - if I hadn't bannished them to the depths of gaming hell 🤭

@gaga64 Thats a very interesting case. Its essentially a "remake" of Sonic 2, but with Sonic 3 music, and Sonic's modern design! lol. Maybe modern Sonic ate something bad in mushroom hill zone and its all a hallucination?

BTW, despite me thinking its weird, imo its a really great game. SNK absolutely nailed the "feel" of it. I bought a beautiful Aqua Blue NGPC on launch day to play it, pre-ordered from the same store I also pre-ordered my Dreamcast, released around the same time. It was an exciting time to be a Sega and Sonic fan 🥰

@Maulbert It's 2023. Sonic and Mario stopped competing 20 years ago.

Both characters have their respective fan bases and aren't worried about competing for an imaginary throne. It's only a very small group of people who's keeping a dead rivalry going.

If you think Mario games are better (Yes, I know there's a high possibility you are going to cite critics as proof, if you so choose to respond) Is fine.

If you dislike the the character and games. Good on you.

@samuelvictor I know. I'm joking because of the title names and where we are now with Mania and Superstars. It's all good.

What lore? What timeline?
Are they just trying to please the most eccentric fans when they say stuff like this?

@DripDropCop146 Ah, sorry! If its not obvious by my style of posting, I'm autistic. 😅 And for me that means sometimes I take jokes as serious by accident. 😇

Sonic has a timeline?

@samuelvictor yeah, I played it a couple of years back and liked it well enough.

I’d not heard that the Sonic 4s are a reimagining though. Yeah, there’s plenty of old bits rehashed, but the same’s true of Mania, which they’re now saying is part of the One True Timeline. Is that reimagining line the official stance?

@gaga64 I'm not sure that it was ever officially outright called a reimagining, but there were interviews at the time of Episode 2 where they basically said "Episode one was just Sonic and zones from Sonic 1, now we're using zones from Sonic 2, and added Tails just like Sonic 2" and then hinted that Episode 3 would add Knuckles and levels from S3+K. Of course, that never happened as even though it was improved, reception still wasn't great, and sales were down.

Many of the games released around that time had been of wildly varying quality, with 06 and GBA Genesis still in recent memory, and Free Riders (the Kinnect one), Secret Rings, Black Knight all being poorly recieved but with some real high points like All Stars Racing, Colours and Generations. For me, Sonic 4 was the lwoest point of all that, especially as it deemed itself fit to use that name, it felt like an insult. Had it just been a cheap and cheerful mobile game that wasn't great, it would have been easier to brush it off. But that name still rankles.

Anyway, there was interviews from around the time they decided not to make Episode 3 where Iizuka said they were going back to the drawing board and Sega were making a commitment to releasing far fewer but higher quality games to refresh the brand, and also anouncing the partnership with Nintendo for 3 exclusive games. That was exciting! Of course, in reality that meant Lost World & the Sonic Boom games so I don't think they quite hit their target.

They then released another statement basically saying the same thing again... which lead to Mania, Forces and Team Sonic Racing. Much better overall, but after the latter two had a mixed reception he released another very similar statement, and anounced Colours Ultimate to try and appease the fans with a game Sega knew they liked, and to bide them time.

Since then we've gotten Origins, Frontiers, Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, and Superstars. 😀 While Origins and Frontiers launch in imperfect states, I think thery are now in good shape, and I think the games are in the healthiest place they've been for a while 🥰

@gaga64 @samuelvictor Might correct me on this, but here it goes anyways.

Mania's remixed levels from what I read was not the original goal. Christian Whitehead from what I gathered originally pitched an a new entry called Discovery.

Sega wasn't too sure, and asked them to take old levels and remix them instead which led to Mania.

So Mania is a remix of old and new. Is it a proper Sonic 4? I don't know. Just thought I offer some random insight from behind the scenes.

@Vexx234 Yes I forgot to mention mania in my reply to @gaga64 but you are completely right about that. Sort of like Disney retreading some themes in Force Awakens while adding new, Sega thought best to retread some old ground for Mania. The logic here is twofold, both to appeal to nostalgia of old fans, but also to hopefully introduce whats great about the property to newcomers.

My own personal feeling is Mania makes a far better "Sonic 4" than actual Sonic 4, firstly because it feels like an actual step forward from the older games, but because it actually has significant amounts of new zones, and the "re-used" ones are vastly expanded upon and improved, rather than just "same thing but different layout with rendered sprites, and removing many of the features of Sonic 3 and going back to Sonic 1 for some reason".

Again though, while I still would have thought it was naff, I wouldn't have felt quite so much vitriol towards Sonic 4 had it been called something else, and also kept as a mobile title and not promoted as a console game. Ironicly - this is exactly what it was meant to be during development. A mobile spinoff, not a continuation of the mainline series.

@samuelvictor @Vexx234 thanks both, that’s interesting background.

My understanding was that both Sonic 4 and Mania explicitly reference the “Death Egg Trilogy” and Sonic CD in their plots, so both are canonically sequels to S3&K, they just both happen to remix a lot of earlier stages/bosses etc.

And yeah, Mania is vastly superior.

I seem to recall around the release of Mania they made some confusing statements about split timelines (due to Generations?) with Mania being the de facto Sonic 4 in the “classic” timeline, and S4 Episodes 1&2 being in the original/“modern” timeline. But now they’re saying it’s all one timeline after all, just not clarifying how any of it actually makes sense?

I mean yeah, it’s a blue hedgehog harassing a fat man with a moustache, plot is entirely irrelevant for the purposes of enjoying the games, it doesn’t need to make sense so long as it’s fun, I don’t need to overthink it. It just feels like if they’re going to the effort of hiring a Lore Keeper, they recognise that it matters to some people.

What a lie, they certainly don't consider lore. Characters from the future like Silver just show up w/ no explanation in Sonic's present time.

The plot of Mania and forces has Robotnik figure out what the Phantom Ruby and research it amd successfully use it. If it was the same version of the character in Mania and Forces he'd know how it'd work in Forces.

The reality is their everything is canon is a just a way to sacrifice any coherence to placate all sections of the fanbase at once.

@samuelvictor Just quoting what you said so you know what I'm replying to first.
"My main takeaway from all of this is its very likely Mighty and Ray will be added to the game at a later stage. And the rest of the Chaotix, please? Also, its possible that both Trip and Fang will be added to new games moving forward, as well as potential "modern" forms for all the classic characters that haven't made the jump yet. I'd love that."

There was a leaked Sega document that came out recently, just talking about their sales figures, how good the brand is right now, where there is room to grow and whatnot. On the document listed Superstars DLC for the 2024 year if I remember correctly, along with some new unnamed projects. As much as I would like to joke about a Superstars Plus, Mania and Origins both received that treatment because there wasn't a physical edition. Not sure Sega will want to double dip there.

Anyway, the actual crux of what I wanted to say, Mighty and Ray are possible DLC for sure, but Sega actually has a hard rule currently on Modern and Classic characters. Mighty and Ray aren't allowed to appear in the IDW Comics, something Flynn has said iirc, because they are Classic characters. So, expecting "Team Chaotix" from Sonic Heroes to reunite with Mighty and Ray sadly just doesn't seem like something they are going to do. It is also why I doubt we're going to see Mighty and Ray in a Modern game, because Sega wants to keep the Classic and Modern series somewhat separate. Of course that could change later, but that's where things stand right now.

As for other characters appearing in the future like Trip, this is Sega and Sonic Team we are talking about. They do not like to bring back their characters to other games to be playable, their record shows they'd rather make new ones. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I'd say we won't see Trip in a playable game 5 years from now, and if Mighty and Ray aren't DLC for Superstars (seriously, how could they not port them over into Origins Plus?), they'll go back to the Missing Poster from Sonic Generations.

So my guess is that Sonic Superstars takes place after Triple Troubles but before Sonic Advance.

@Bobb

Mario Wonder takes place 3 years after NSBW, but two days before SMB3. SMB3 takes place the day after SMB2. Sunshine takes place inbetween SMB3 and SM3DL over the course of a weekend.

SM64 is before everything. SMM fits after SM3DW, while SMG is after SMM2, SMG2, takes place before SMR, and finally SMO takes place two hours after SMW.

I did the math, and see no issue with this order.

"we always make sure the story fits with the lore"? Is that why characters and major world-shattering events (sometimes literally) just tend to phase in and out of existence with zero explanation or is this just an attempt to save face and give the impression that they know what they're doing?

People are making fun of this but why? Of course there’s Sonic lore, every game is connected. Actions have consequences in Sonic just like anything else. When will you all learn?

@gaga64 Haha yeah you summed it up pretty well. Its certainly been confusing up until this point! 😂

@Nua Very interesting post. I heard about that leak too, yeah. I think Superstars DLC is a given, it would definitely make sense to add more characters to the roster and if they do it would be classic ones like Mighty & Ray or the Chaotix. I'd like a deluxe physical "Plus" version in a slip case to match Mania and Origins but I don't think that will happen being they started off as a "full price" physical release from jump - but I could be wrong.

Also, yeah its absolute madness that Mighty and Ray aren't in Origins, just as I thought it was crazy Amy wasn't brought to Mania. Sega are weird with their characters like you said. Thats exactly why I'm making my own version of Origins with all characters in all games (including the 8bit titles, Chaotix etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTiAmOH8MM ) just to scratch the itches that I wish Sega would officially do! lol

I know traditionally they've wanted to keep the classic characters and the modern characters apart, but like I said, they have now seemingly finally allowed the possibility of the "classic" forms of the main four characters growing older and becoming the modern ones, and placing the game on the timeline like this, in addition to allowing Amy to get her new dress sets a precident thats its potentially possible for the other classic characters to get older and have modern versions. Of course, we already have modern versions of Vector, Charmy and Espio, so it would make sense to bring accross Mighty to complete team Chaotix. And if they did that, why not bring Ray? And then why not Trip? lol

But of course, Sega is Sega and just because something makes sense doesn't mean they'll do it. I've bought every console and add on they've ever made since the Master System, I'm used to them making baffling descisions or leaving glaring omissions by now. I still love them for the stuff they get right though. I love Superstars, and will happily buy any DLC and hopefully sequels. 😅

[edit] By the way I was going to correct you about Mighty and Ray not being in the IDW comics by saying I literally have comics right here with them in, but then I realised that they are one-shots. The Amy oneshot they just released has them both and lots of other characters. It even has Bean, and essentially "confirms" that he is the same character as Bin from Dynamite Dux (because he has a framed poster of his brother on the wall) even though Sega have previously claimed this not to be the case. I think thats a very smart retcon it was insanely stupid to try and claim they weren't the same character and just looked the same 😂 Bark is in that same comic too, its a wild one! Really cute little one off story for Amy to be the hero of.

@samuelvictor I've been playing the Genesis classics since I was a kid on my Genesis, so I understand the decision on Mania to start with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, the three who had to be there from the start. Personally I always saw Amy with her Dreamcast era/Sonic Advance moveset, and understood her omission at the time. I still haven't gotten used to Amy's moveset yet, the hammer with the range of a shield just trivializes attacking badniks for me. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Mania team pitched Amy for DLC and were told no. But yeah, the lack of Mighty and Ray when the RSDK code is right there! Ugh! This is why I love fan projects, just add the games in. Sonic Origins came out too little too late for me, because the magic of widescreen HD Sonic 1 and 2 on PC was already gone 1-2 years before Origins was announced, let alone when it actually released. And I was a madlad who 100%ed Origins on the release day, so many things bugged me about S3&K's port but from what Stealth has said, they just didn't have the time to get it right. For that reason, the Origins version is one of my least favorite ways to play Sonic 3, AIR is amazing. Sonic 3 Complete feels better to play than the Origins version to me. Glad I bought it at the time, but yeah, I have better versions to play than Sega's official effort, and I had better versions before they released Origins too.

Edit: In regards to your edit, here is my own edit. Flynn's statement on Sega not allowing Classic characters in the comics is several years old at this point, I'm not surprised that he managed to find a way to get them in, but yeah, one shots and not being involved in the main story. Not how fans would expect it to go. That is at least one thing Archie's storyline had going for them, they never had to keep Classic and Modern separate, there wasn't a Classic and Modern back then, the characters just existed.

You also mentioned something about the characters aging and such, but I'm a skeptic on it. We'll need several more Classic Sonic games before I believe that at this point, and I'm just subscribing to Occam's Razor on it. Amy's dress is here because many fans prefer that over her Classic outfit, and recognize her with that instead of the Sonic CD Green and Orange. Lego Sonic has green eyes because Lego Sonic already existed with green eyes. I'd bet Lego Knuckles has his purple eyes too, but has his black eyes in the Superstars model.

@Nua While I really like how Amy played in the Advance series and in Adventure, for me those make more sense as her modern moves that she has learned as she got older, stronger and tougher. The way she's implemented in Origins Plus is pretty spot on for what I'd have imagined "classic" Amy from Sonic CD to have played as back in the day (at least once I knew about her hammer, which she first got in Fighters). She plays very similarly to Sonic, which makes sense in my mind, she's a hedgehog afterall, and spends her time idolising him. I like her running smashy smashy hammer thing she does instead of the drop dash! And her super move is hilariously OP. She's a "easy mode" but she's very fun. Plus the sprite is super cute. Other than a couple of slightly awkwards frames for certain moves I think she looks perfect.

I think the main reason I felt she should have been included in Mania was because we had her in the classic games a year before Knuckles even showed up. I loved her right from the first preview I saw in a magazine when CD was in development and always wanted her to be playable in a game. Of course, Mighty and Ray were also in SegaSonic arcade, which was the same year as Sonic CD, so they should be there too... I just thought Amy is part of the "core 4" and far more well known so by jumping to Mighty and Ray it felt like she was skipped over on purpose.

I'd agree to your subscribing to Occams razor too if it were just the outfits... its the fact they are officially placing this game inbetween Mania and Adventure that makes me think there may be hope. Because they are unifying the timeline and allowing for games to be made that bridge the gap between the 2d pixel titles and the 3d ones. If they continue that line of thought, sequels to Superstars (or prequels to Adventure) could be interesting. It might also explain why Modern Sonic is in Sonic Pocket Adventure, despite it being mostly Sonic3 + 3 assets! lol

I loved the Archie Comics, and the Fleetway ones too - both completely different but equally bonkers and ambitious with the liberties they took. I feel like the IDW stuff is by far the most "official" feeling stuff so far though, its so carefully watched over and everything has to be approved a million times over - but its made by 100% raving longterm nerdy fans, so there so much lore and easter eggs and references there. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out over time.

And yeah of course AIR is the best way to play Sonic 3, and I'm a huge fan of fangames, mods, etc and also make my own. But there's something special to me about an official product, even if it isn't quite as good as other options, simply by the fact that its official and that means Sega approved it and if its good that means they are listening or there is hope for future stuff to be good. Origins now its officially updated to the point of being really good and is easily modable to add the old music back in or make adjustments if you want. For me though, just having the core four officially playable in all the 16bit titles is enough to justify its existance... though I'm still making my own version so Mighty & Ray and the Chaotix can play too... and you can have any partner character you want rather than just Tails. Why those restrictions are in the official game I'll never get my head around. 😅

@larryisaman I love that SammyClassicSonicFan stuck around on YouTube long enough for us to finally all learn about the consequences of our actions. Seeing him react to Superstars being anounced was fun. And given his Mario backpack, I bet he's excited to have Wonder released as well!

@samuelvictor While I had a Genesis, I lacked access to Sega CD for at least 15 years after I had already molded my childhood with the core trio. I knew of Amy's debut in CD, but since she wasn't playable until Advance for 2D (Yes, I know she was a racer in the Sonic Drift series) Amy never had a classic moveset for me. Besides, the development cycles were all a mess at the time, CD originally being an CD port of Sonic 2 before the project split, Sonic 3 & Knuckles originally being 1 cartridge and supposed to release in 1993 but being delayed, the chronology of releases definitely doesn't reflect the behind the scenes cohesiveness. During production of Sonic Jam, I believe Yuji Naka said he was shocked how many Sonic games Sega had made between Sonic 1 on the Genesis and the Sonic Jam compilation on Saturn. I'm sure you remember the audience scream in happiness at the confirmation that Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were back. Sonic, obvious. Tails, easy second choice if they were adding another playable character. Knuckles? You know how MIA Knuckles had been at the time for 2D games. Including Amy and creating her moveset very well could have been something Sonic Team rejected with Sonic Discovery before it was turned into Mania. Oh, and in regards to her sprite, I personally think it's too small/thin in Origins. Or maybe I'm just used to years of seeing that sprite as not being playable and now it just feels like it lacks weight. I dunno. Classic Amy still feels off, and I'd rather play as Max Control Sonic or Knuckles.

I am also aware of the 1993 SegaSonic the Hedgehog, but Mighty and Ray were just Sonic clones back then, long before Mighty reskinned Sonic in the belated Sonic Crackers turned Knuckles Chaotix.

Also, for the timeline stuff, I mean, what else were they supposed to say about the placement? They've already acknowledged when Superstars was revealed that Shadow won't be playable or DLC because he is a Modern character and that currently he is still sleeping. The game had to take place before Adventure since they established the split with Generations. I'm more surprised that the game takes place after Mania instead of before since the Origins cutscenes make it all line up that Superstars continues the adventures started in Origins. I can't find it right now, but I swear that in 2017 Sega/Sonic Team included in a manual that Mania took place a few weeks after S3&K. Or maybe I'm just confusing the the gap of time between Sonic 2 and Sonic 3.

So, since all hedgehogs are supposed to play like Sonic, I take it you'd imagine a Classic Silver to behave pretty much the same?

I might be more interested in anything they say about timeline if they weren't insistent that CD takes place BEFORE Sonic 2 just because Tails isn't in it. Besides thinking that the mecha/metal progression makes a little more sense going from the clunky boss in 2 to metal to mk.III and then deciding to stick with metal instead of jumping to metal then the sonic 2 boss, both Sonic AND Tails had solo adventures without the other that were set after Sonic 2 (not to be confused with the Tails solo adventure set before they met, that's a different game), so they weren't totally fused at the hip.

I always found the idea of a Sonic timeline as silly as the Zelda one.

Wait - Sonic games have a timeline?

Honestly, the first time anything even hinted toward there being a timeline tying the Sonic games together, was when Sonic Generations introduced a clear distinction between a "classic" and a "modern" Sonic. Up until then, Sonic was just Sonic.

@samuelvictor Well, the problem with Sonic 4 is that the sprites used are not classic Sonic but modern Sonic. It had the potential to be great but the game engine that handled the physics ruined part I. They fixed it in part II but then forcing tails for gameplay purposes kind of took away from the experience as well. As an og fan of Sonic’s original entries, this was definitely the game with the poorest gameplay experience. The only thing I did not care from Sonic Mania were the special zones, although I do prefer them over Sonic CD and the ones from 3D Blast (Genesis/Mega Drive). Not to mention that the retro engine is a thing of beauty. I do hope that more games outside of Sonic are made with the engine as Sega is going their own route with Superstars and their future classic Sonic entries.

@Maulbert I actually didn't mind that game on WiiWare (4 ep.1.). But because it felt like a re-imagining of Sonic 1 to many, "spiritually" Sonic Mania (Plus) is regarded as the fourth installment by many. I respect for nomenclature.