It appears Nintendo is at it again, this time targeting YouTube videos focused on The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 'Second Wind' expansion mod.
YouTube channel Waikuteru has been on the receiving end - with fears there'll be nothing left if it continues. Waikuteru is now asking fans of mods to unite via a Discord channel, in the hope they can get Nintendo to change its attitude:
"Nintendo attacked my channel and took down 40 videos so far. If this continues, the channel will be blank within a week. I know that a lot of you guys like mods, hence the subscription. There is only one way to change the termination of Nintendo mods and that is to convince Nintendo with a large number of people to change their mind. The goal is to gather that many people together that Nintendo has to listen to us."
At the time of writing, most of Waikuteru's Breath of the Wild: Second Wind videos have been removed from YouTube. And just to clarify, the 'Second Wind' mod is still available and there has been no action taken against it.
If we hear about any developments, we'll be sure to let you know.
[source youtube.com, via gamingreinvented.com]
Comments 201
I mean modding games is clearly something Nintendo doesn't like, especially their newer games, and technically Nintendo does have the right and reason to take down the videos, as they are modifications of their game.
Not saying that Nintendo is in the right, or that this guy deserves it, but I mean it was something that was kind of inevitable.
With that being said, I hope for the best for this guy, just wish he was able to mod Cookie Monster into Breath of the Wild before getting attacked by Nintendo.
But yeah there's no convincing Nintendo to stop sorry man :/
The many legal niches Nintendo finds certainly means standing up to them would be very difficult, as it already is for anything else.
All I can say is that this won't end well. As much as I love the work and effort put into this mod, I for one certainly can't get involved.
"convince Nintendo with a large number of people to change their mind"
hahahahahaha nice one! so he is not just a modder but a comedian as well
Nintendo hasn't given you license to mod the game and promote your mods.
This isn't like Bethesda including the Construction Kit with copies of Morrowind. When you buy Breath of the Wild, you have no right to anything but the game as presented by Nintendo running on Wii U and Switch.
Nintendo has every right to shut you down, and I'm surprised they didn't shut you down months or years ago.
I hate to be that guy, but one should expect this from Nintendo by now and it shouldn't be a surprise. Obviously, it'd be better if they changed their ways, but you don't walk into a lion's den wearing a suit made of meat.
This guy is pretty naive.
I don't like what Nintendo is doing here, but they have to protect their IPs. This is one of many reasons why Nintendo's IPs hold more value than something like Sonic for example.
But honestly, if the mods don't generate profit, why are they removing videos featuring them?
Indeed, the people behind this mod project are being extremely naive. The only thing that could help things right now is to avoid even more noise, asking fans to be vocal about their support and all this promotion and Nintendolife coverage will just kill the whole thing sooner.
This is lame.. Oh well.
Modding in other side was like force changing something into someone desire and didn't appreciate the original things.
Assuming the videos are monetized. They are technically making money off of the mod. You can’t monetize videos showing a modded game that you didn’t make.
@marandahir
Bull, he bought it, he can mod it.
He isn't selling anything and he isn't advocating for piracy so he isn't doing anything wrong.
@BTB20 @Spider-Kev
If his videos were monetized then he would technically be making money off of his mod.
Reread the article. The mod is still up so all they did was take down his videos. Which would be making money off the mod.
This isn't shocking; and the guy is Naive with a capital N if he thinks vocal fans will change anything.
Nintendo pissed off the entire Smash AND Splatoon community, and still didn't give two Sh*ts. Do you really think a minuscule mod community is even going be so much a ripple to them?
Can't wait to start playing Second Wind!
Finally found everything I need to in order to do it.
@blindsquarel
Okay, yeah, I see. That's understandable then.
@blindsquarel
My point still stands though, he bought the game, he can do what he wants to with it, as long as he isn't making money off of it.
Not sure how people make money from youtube anyway...
@QueenKittenWrite 100%. I’ll still be vocal about some of their practices, but not with the false assumption that Nintendo will read my tweets and say “Well by golly gosh, are we jerks?”
He should know by now that Nintendo is like this. I had to say I'm not surprise but I don't think it's a good idea to dedicate your entire channel to creating or enhancing games own by a company that doesn't like you.
@blindsquarel
I hope you know how ridiculous your logic is, because still make money monetizing their gameplay of Nintendo games regardless. It's called fair use, learn what it means. And this is just another case of a company abusing coypright through youtube.
@RubyDevilNine Nintendo is still in the wrong since Youtube is an international platform and has fair use laws.
Really wish people with talent like this would create their own original content instead of using the IP of a company that's so hostile to fan creativity. It's frustrating to watch.
And yes, the guy is incredibly naive if he thinks he can pressure Nintendo into doing anything.
I know that "Nintendo attacks Youtuber" is an enticing story, but let's not forget the role of YouTube here and how it's their OWN copyright system that is causing these issues. If YouTube fixed their own platform, these issues would be far less common. So basically, don't be mad at just Nintendo, be mad at YouTube as well
Nintendo should hire the people that make their games better through modding. But, no, they prefer the nuclear option.
Well, I'm surprised it lasted that long, but we all saw this coming. Nintendo doesn't like mods, at all. So if you're using a platform to show the mod of a Nintendo game, it's just a matter of time before they come for you.
And while I agree that it sucks for the mods community, I also agree that Nintendo wants to protect its intellectual properties, as they should.
@iLikeUrAttitude this is the same with the Toei and Totally not Mark situation. If Japan laws protect the companies from any form of "copyright", even if those companies are in the wrong, YT has to comply, and the fair use goes to the toilet. Youtubers would then have to spend big money to prove the fair use in their videos and make the companies desist the cr strike.
Why people choose to make mods in games owned by a company that actively hate their fanbase is beyond me. Not to mention that said fans will constantly side with the one that hates them.
I mean, of course this is a ***** move by Nintendo, but sadly, if their actions are close to legal, they have enough money to stay safe.
Edit: I find the censoring of words like this hilarious. Now everyone who reads it will still read the word in their own mind, so the only difference is the actual letters aren't there. It's like believing the spelled out word has some kind of magic power that the censored version doesn't.
@Strumpan Nintendo does have the right to do this actually.
Also Nintendo isn't the only one who targets mods, iirc even Rockstar does it too
@JeanPaul and now PC gamers are wondering why Nintendo doesn't put games on PC
This site pushes the publicity of these projects out into the ether as much as any other, so I'll merely cup a hand over the mouth in a feigned gasp that actions have consequences.
@iLikeUrAttitude
Doing a let’s play or speed run of botw is different than promoting your mod of botw.
@Spider-Kev
The mod actually didn’t get took down. Just videos promoting it.
Nintendo wants the videos down because they promote the pirate/mod and not because the video itself is piracy (even though it is piracy). While they are misusing the YouTube copyright system, it seems fair game to me. I like game streaming videos, I like piracy, I like unofficial mods, but I don't blame Nintendo for trying to make it hard to do.
Very good work, Nintendo! I am so happy about this.
@Savage_Joe Well yes those companies that abuse the youtube copyright system are very much in the wrong.
This is moreso a flaw within Youtube's system preventing abuse of it and corporate companies taking advantage of it which is unfortunate.
@blindsquarel Cool, it still falls into fair use.
@iLikeUrAttitude
Also the mod is not took down like the headline would make you think. Just the videos, which is more evidence towards my point.
@blindsquarel Whether its the mods being taken down or the videos themselves they modder is completely within his right upload and monetize them because it still falls into fair use and Nintendo is in the wrong for abusing the youtube copyright system.
The question isn't whether this is correct/fair use from a legal standpoint. Even if it were perfectly legit and Nintendo would lose in a court of law we're not talking about a court of law. We're talking about YouTube. We shouldn't interpret YouTube doing a thing as "Nintendo [being] within their legal rights" to do anything without an actual lawyer weighing in. This is just YouTube acquiescing to a request, regardless of whether legally they have to.
Blasting Nintendo with tweets isn't going to do anything to change Nintendo's behavior. The only interesting question is 1) why is YouTube enabling Nintendo, 2) can YouTube be persuaded to change or enforce their policies differently?
@FaroreAbhorsen 1) Youtube is required by DMCA law to protect the owner of the content.
2) Only if 1) changes. (Which it won't)
most people who use breath of the wild mods have downloaded the game illegal from the Internet, so I can totally understand Nintendo in this case
I'm just not interested in the mod scene. Or remaking stuff in unreal engine. I'm sure Nintendo know what they are doing.
@BTB20 false representation of a product with Nintendo’s name on it.
Kind of like you drawing something and signing it and then someone steals it. They start adding things in the background, some things you don’t like, and making it look different here and there. Someone sees the new drawing with your name on it and thinks you’re a sicko for drawing all these weird things in the background. Hey, your name is on it, it had to be you who did it! Now you have this reputation you had no say in.
That’s the best analogy I can come up with.. I’m tired.
Even if it's his mod, it's still Nintendo's engine, artwork, music, and animation.
@BTB20 Do the videos generate profit?
@iLikeUrAttitude This is far from fair use and he would easily lose in a court of law. It you look at the legal factors that would allow a "fair use" defence this mod loses on every single one of them.
Is it nonprofit or educational? No, it's commercial
Fact or fictional? Fictional
Small or large use of the original works? This is the most debatable but I would say it uses a large portion of the original works. The gameplay amd graphics are the same and to anyone not in the know this is BotW. Someone may purchase the game expecting this content to be in the game.
Effect upon market? This mod encourages piracy to obtain and play the mod. This involves the illegal modification of hardware to play the modification on a game that the user may not originally own.
Yeah Nintendo isn't going to change their minds...lol
I mean, did he honestly not see this coming?
The point is you can mod but not use them in a way the IP rights holder doesn't want you to. Plastering videos on you tube is not something Nintendo is going to allow. Make a private access server and a mod club.
@BTB20 I think it comes down to two things when dealing with mods and Nintendo: brand perception and consumers. They spend a lot of money marketing their games and they are very particular about when and what kind of information they share. They want the content in their games to reflect their company brand in a specific way and mods basically take that carefully crafted image and skew it into something that they may not necessarily agree with.
The second reason, and I'm not joking here, is because they think their customers are ignorant and that they'll believe anything they see on the internet. They don't want ill-informed consumers seeing some random mod online, thinking it's part of the actual game and then going out to buy the game and getting disappointed when they find out it's not. This isn't because they care about their customers, it's because they care about their brand image. Long story short, it's all about the brand.
@jojobar Do you have any statistics to back up that claim or is this just some nonsense that you assume?
Because I would rather think that the majority of mod community have been playing BotW for over hundreds of hours and own at least 1 copy of the game.
I'm pretty sure that You need hacked Switch or emulator to play with mods, so I don't see how this guy thinks he will convince Nintendo to be okay with that.
"Nintendo attacked my channel".
Bit melodramatic.
I think this guy would find it easier getting a job at Nintendo than trying to convince them to allow this content.
The bottom line of the issue is that people are profiting from Nintendo's work. Whether that's charging for a subscription or making revenue from advertising - and whether it's a few pounds or more - that is an issue that Nintendo will never back away from. And I agree with them.
Here we go again...
"Boo Nintendo! How dare you protect your IP and take action against a hacked game that isn't played on your console for which that 99% of players won't pay a penny?"
I'd support Nintendo if they were to take down articles promoting hacked versions of their games, especially when there is never a disclaimer about emulation and piracy.
Surprised...No
Sad...Yes
Wish Nintendo had the same ideas as Sega with Sonic, don't ban them, employ them, for example Sonic Mania
No offence to the guy, but if there was going to be mass action from the fanbase it would probably be best to focus on one of the bigger issues that affect the entire community where there is a snowballs change Nintendo might actually do something.
The bottom line is that this will be associated with Nintendo, and their products. I don't think it's about money lost in the short term. It's about maintaining the expectation that Nintendo Trademarks mean quality and safety over time. If it weren't for that, there wouldn't be a Nintendo, and there wouldn't be a BOTW to mod. Perhaps there is another way, but that is at least the reason this happens.
@Aurumonado alas, this is not protecting their IP, but making themselves look like scum.
even more so since this isn't going to stop anything, just like their C&D that they sent to koolboyman over pokemon prisim which just kept going without him.
The reality of the situation is that Second Wind videos aren't being taken down, it's just most/all modding videos from this one YouTuber which are getting copyright strikes (not just the SW stuff). There's a big difference, for the most part Second Wind is independent from Waikuteru. I'd be nice if the article actually reflected that.
@Kiz3000
1: You need the cartridge to make the mod work
2: or you need an official eShop download toake it work! It doesn't work with pirated software!
3: modding/hacking hardware is NOT illegal!
@blindsquarel
I know the mod didn't get taken down.
@sebas150015
He isn't mis-using the IP though, he isn't putting deranged, lewd or damaging stuff in the game.
He's doing what Nintendo should have and make the game world better and more full.
Also fixing the inventory slots for clothing/armor!
The fact that the original game keeps you from getting all armor pieces is asinine!
@Spider-Kev dude is still making money off of it on Patreon. Which since people love to exaggerate this, the spokesperson of Sega even said fan projects are fine as long as no money is made. So even Sega isn't okay with Sonic fan games having Patreons
Why isn't Nintendo going after whatever a patreon is?
....I'll be honest, I seriously don't get Nintendo sometimes, PLENTY of Youtube channels out there show off modded Nintendo games...I mean, even I've done it...
Sooooo, why this guy? Is he making money off these videos?
@Joeynator3000 he's making money on Patreon. And these videos did promote his Patreon. And yes his Patreon literally states that it's for his Zelda mods.
"Nintendo attacked my channel..." Boo Hoo. No they didn't. Very few companies allow fans to make money off mods, much less Nintendo.
I know it's sometimes good to go with the "ask forgiveness instead of permission" but this dude isn't even asking forgiveness
@Spider-Kev Maybe they should do that too - https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/crytek-forces-patreon-supported-crysis-remastered-photo-mode-mod-offline/
@cicewe2514 ...I just looked....$10 and $15 to unlock and download the mods...yeah, never mind then...ugh.
The big tweest is Nintendolife has been posting all the mod videos recently to publicize and give the big N the OK to go after the modders
@Bunkerneath Sonic Mania wasn't a case of some unknown person getting the job on the strength of a mod. Sonic Mania was an idea pitched TO Sega by someone who was already previously contracted for other projects.
@jsty3105 it's worth noting that Second Wind isn't even related to his Patreon.
Also @Liam_Doolan the source article was updated to clarify there's no relation between SW, it's team and all this.
YAY!!!! No more articles featuring this fella again, he got nearly as many as the switch pro! Now they can hopefully pull down the modding site too.
Nintendo should have modded his you tube account is some novel way.
@CEObrainz that's interesting. If he was using his YouTube channel to promote his patreon for Zelda mods (likely) then I guess that might be the red flag for Nintendo
@jsty3105 I actually don't know what triggered it all. He's not the only creator to do such things, though I suppose given the number of views on some of his videos it makes sense why he may have been targeted.
Mods are cool and fun! More mods please!
@CEObrainz his Patreon literally says "is creating Mods for Zelda Breath of the Wild."
Whether or not Second Wind is a part of his Patreon doesn't matter cause he's still trying to make money off modding a game and literally one of his perks is early access.
So really a big no no in general
I've just one anecdote to tell.
I can't really comment on the scaling for a Nintendo product, but I make music as a side hussle and found a fairly prominent Soundcloud rapper that had sampled my songs (2 fairly big samples and 1 smaller hook) and put it on Spotify/Bandcamp, etc, garnering him income. When I contacted him, he essentially said "deal with it, I'm not taking it down". He wouldn't even credit me, when I offered amicable resolution. The hoops I had to jump through to get the tracks taken down/altered were insane. Eventually it was sorted after 2 months back and forth with Distrokid, Bandcamp and Soundcloud, and eventually the guys account was limited and he abandoned the project.
I'm not saying this is remotely comparable when it comes to the monetary effect, but this was over a guy making a few hundred pounds over something I made - I couldn't imagine this scenario scaled up.
Saying that, it's against the Nintendo ToS to alter the games, and selling said mods (it's literally behind a paywall right now) is not only a little problematic but also against the ToS.
Again, while Nintendo did nothing really illegal, it's another example on how copyright laws are too draconian and we need less restrictions and a shorter deadline for copyright to expire.
@cicewe2514 I'm not talking about or justifying the action, all I was pointing out is that it's unrelated to SW. This is getting reported as if its an issue for the SW team when in reality its an issue for one modder and his youtube channel who happens to make videos on SW.
The content behind his patreon doesn't include any SW stuff afaik. As for hiding things behind a paywall, that's a fair discussion to have but not really the topic I'm discussing.
And absolutely no one was surprised.
@sebas150015 it's incredible how that is not exactly the same in almost every way
@victordamazio You're suggesting other people should be able to profit off your work quicker?
@sebas150015 @jsty3105 Copyright is important for artists to live from their work and for companies to recover the money they invested, I am not against copyright, it's important to prevent people from just taking what you made and using it for a quick buck, but copyright needs to expire because there are always people who will take what you made and make improved and expanded versions.
In USA laws, copyright expires 70 years after the creator dies, and if the owner is a company, it's 95 years after release, it's too long, and some people defend that it should be even longer, lasting forever.
Most works of media from 50 years ago aren't even making any money, but copyright keeps getting tigher and longer to protect the companies who profit from the few works that still are.
@iLikeUrAttitude
It's not fair use in this case, though. He's got no right to modding the game. He doesn't own the game. He owns a copy of the game software on proprietary Nintendo software (eshop download) or flashcards, and has chosen to break the terms and conditions associated with acquiring the game by pulling it apart and changing it from what it was.
There's a big difference between that and presenting portions of the game cut into segments in a let's play or review with reactions, etc. Those are fair use. What he's doing is not. It's a very fine line to walk.
He's free to mod the game all he wants, it's a free world, after all, but he should expect the banhammer and the weight of law when it comes to distributing derivative works of Nintendo's property or earning $ on youtube showing off said derivative works.
@victordamazio Yeah - as a creator, I disagree. I wrote a parody about 13 years ago and rewrote the lyrics about 5 years ago. I'd be pissed if someone else profited using it (considering I made nothing off it).
I've also written articles and other stuff where I'd be quite unhappy if they were adjusted by others who'd go on to profit off it.
Appreciate it's a little different in this instance as Nintendo's the big bad evil corporation to some.
@Aurumonado That is NOT why lol. Imagine being this ignorant
@jsty3105
See, that's the thing. We can all agree that Nintendo has power and money that this guy would never dream of. And certainly, Nintendo's lawyers can use that power to attack targets that arguably are fair use, on the basis of protecting their brand image or profit margins.
But it's very important that the law protects the property of small scale musicians and giant corporations equally under the law. Otherwise, the power of big corporate interests will always be able to find wiggle room for themselves and crush the small artists. We need to close those loopholes.
As a consequence, though, that means ALSO enforcing it against people like this guy who steal Nintendo's property and create derivative work.
OR, we need to decide that derivative works are fundamentally protected, and stop enforcing DMCA over songs that sounds somewhat alike (and honestly, the history of music is a history of borrowing).
IP law is wack! Figuring out the balance is important, and I'm not saying we need to get rid of IP law entirely or enforce it like a authoritarian state, just that we need to treat creators and their IP equally.
@Joeynator3000
Not sure where you are looking, but they are free through the actual source.
@sebas150015 if you buy digital, yes, you buy a license. If you buy physical, you own the copy.
As for modding hardware, apple and Sony went through stuff when people missed thier stuff and the courts sided with the people modding. You own the tech after you buy it, you are allowed to do with it as you will.
I mean, it should REALLY come as no surprise at this point.
@Gwynbleidd Would somewhat say the same for haters rushing to pile in and following the crowd (i.e. like sheep)
@jsty3105 Copyright only expires after you die, and your family has inheritance for 70 years, this is too long.
Originally, you could lose your copyrights while still alive, so creators are forced to keep making new stuff so they won't rely on one thing forever.
Sure, it seems unfair that people will just take what you made and use it to make profit, but creativity should not be owned by a company or family forever, ideas can't be owned, they need to be expanded and improved by other people.
Remember that no videogames will enter the public domain until the year 2067, and at first, only ancient games like Computer Space and Pong will be ours.
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will only lose its copyright on the year 2113, only in that year, sharing the game for free on the internet and making mods for it will be 100% legal.
And people still claim that public domain is unfair and copyright should last forever to protect the artist, do you think the people who made the game will be alive by that time?
@Link-Hero what is even the point of an end user agreement? You can get angry but tell me what companies allow fans to profit from mods?
the problem is in order for a mod to be played you have yo pirate the game. modding is legal, sure. downloading a game you already own? also legal.
problem is breath of the wild is not on PC, so there's no way you can play this in a way Nintendo can't fight
@Gtask025 or you just dump the game, which involves no piracy at all.
@Link-Hero it's not JUST Nintendo. It's pretty much every other company too. Unless it's something like Roblox I don't know know of what other games allow fans to profit from mods
@jojobar even if they bought the game, they still need a doctored copy that runs in the emulator, which can only be made in ways that go against the eula. Plus it is so hard to do (I think you need a never updated first edition console), that indeed most people will have downloaded their doctored version illegally. which means: a large percentage approaching 100 of modders are pirates.
@Savage_Joe The reason Nintendo don't want to hire them is because they don't want to pay them. They want all the money.
@Link-Hero Your last sentence is the only valid part that's true. Nintendo doesn't give a damn if you buy their products or not, heck they don't even care if you create things better than them and they won't be impressed ever until they got their way and make sure you fall under. Here's the real truth, you could create things using Nintendo's IP without their permission, you just had to make sure it isn't popular. Heck them Chinese hackers does it all the time.
@Specter_of-the_OLED lol. Pretty much every other company would react the same to a for-profit mod. Name me an example of a company that allows paid mods.
Crytek is the most recent example of a paid mod getting into trouble. They even said they didn't mind it being distributed for free but the modder chose to act poorly and entitled about it.
I think Nintendo could be trying to get rid of the fact that the mod exist rather then the mod itself.
@Link-Hero
Their Patreon link on the youtube videos shows he is making some money every month and shows he want's to make a profit if he can. By donating enough money you can even get early access! He must be doing it solely for the fans!
@victordamazio
He is making money of patron and monetizing his videos which showcase the mod. So yes he is making money off of his mod.
@Kiz3000
This is completely fair use and anyone who would do 5 minutes of research would realize it.
This can easily fall into entertainment purposes.
Also its transformative.
Another thing to note is that Commercial uses are less likely to be considered fair use, but it’s still possible to monetize a video that contains fair use material.
This is the least important factor otherwise no lets player of commentary videos with gameplay in the background would be able to monetize their videos.
This one in specific is just a case of "it helps your case if it aligns but it doesn't set it in stone".
Otherwise no one would be able to upload any sort of content of Nintendo games or any other games since its all fictional.
Again the content is transformative. The modder is adding new expression or meaning to the original material via mods which are his own creation.
As for your argument about how hes using a large portion of the content to make something new... congrats you just discovered how fair use works - taking something and making content "transformative" from it.
This is very disingenuous, for one his videos has very little views and even if they did it couldn't be more obvious that they're mods, he literally points it out in his channel description that he makes mods, along with being in the description of said mods and even pointed out in his videos.
If you were to search anything even remotely related to BOTW none of his videos would come up, you get trailers of the first game and the upcoming game, popular lets plays from a while back, challenge runs from other lets players etc. You would have to actively search out his videos or mods related if you want to find his channel so no that isn't true in the slightest.
This is yet again another very disingenuous assumption you made.
At no point in the youtubers channel is he actively encouraging people the pirate the game, he is just displaying mods he created himself the way to obtain them is up to the people that want to play them, you just came to that conclusion on your own despite nothing even hinting at that.
Furthermore you don't need to pirate to install mods on your game. People just can homebrew their switch and they just can install it from there. Also even if there playing the mod via a ROM or online emulator its still fine as long as they own a copy of the original game which I guarantee you most people do since the game sold so much.
As for "illegal modification" it isn't illegal to modify the hardware you bought, only in Japan where there was ever a case of someone getting arrested or punished for hacking a switch.
And the youtuber doesn't live in Japan so there goes your argument.
In conclusion hes 100% in his right to create mods and upload videos of them and you, along with most of the commenters of this article need to learn what fair use actually means. As well as how emulation and modding works.
@RubyDevilNine Ok hes still within his right to upload his content because its protected (or should be at least) by fair use. Theres more categories for fair use than just comedy and entertainment either refer to my previous comment or do your own research through here.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9783148?hl=en
Also he lives in the US. It may have been a US created law and each country has different precautions of handling it but he should be protected regardless, its just that Companies abuse the copyright system in youtube to take down videos, especially ones like Toei Animation and Nintendo.
@sebas150015 As long as he owns an original copy of the game he can do what he wants with it, that includes mods which also fall into fair use if you want to upload content of them as I mentioned in previous comments hes making a creation out of something, not stealing or ripping it off.
Monetizing them however may be a different discussion altogether.
This is really inaccurate, they're targeting Waikuteru specifically, and his YouTube channel as a whole, which just happens to have videos about Second Wind. Other channels like The Basement with Second Wind videos have been unaffected. Also, in response to iLikeUrAttitude's post, I'm fairly certain Waikuteru is German.
@Torphedo His about me on his youtube channel said his location was in the United States so I guess his ethnicity is German while his nationality is American then.
As for piracy: about 80% of the modders I've met in the BOTW community obtained their copies legally. There's certainly pirates around, but not as many as you'd think.
@iLikeUrAttitude Ah, ok. That makes sense.
Removed - flaming/arguing
@okeribok
this is THE WORST post I've seen on this thread because it is so ill informed. For future reference, if you don't know a lot about a topic, do a quick Google search to confirm if what you're saying is true.
You do not need a switch emulator to do this. It works on console that has custom firmware installed.
You can dump legally obtained copies of any game with any switch (including lite and OLED) on any update.
Piracy is a nearly a non issue for people who have hacked their switches. Your numbers are backwards. I don't know the number and I can't remember where to find it; but anecdotally, most people don't care to pirate and would rather just mod their games or run emulators that are far superior to Nintendo's offerings.
I get why Nintendo does this, its not entirely unreasonable but i do think what a person does with that game should be entirely up to them after they purchased it, if that includes modifications then whatever.
But it becomes an issue when someone uploads videos online on how to do it and benefits monetarily from the videos. Which is exactly what was happening here. (Not by selling the mod itself but by get paid from advertising on the videos).
I don't think Nintendo cared that he modded the game, i think Nintendo cared that he was benefiting from the videos financially.
This is probably the worst time to promote your BoTW mods when Nintendo is focusing on marketing BoTW 2. You are not flying under the radar, you are lighting a giant flare for yourself.
You are now basically saying “Hi Nintendo! I’m making money from YT Ad revenue by modifying your game that is getting a sequel release soon! Please don’t take down my videos that you are completely in the right for doing!” then crying about it afterward as if you didn’t expect Nintendo to do it. Even has a Patron link.
Sorry this is not a case of “poor modder that just wants to share his creation” scenario when money gets involved no matter how many people here want to regurgitate “fair use” thinking it’s a catch all protection for everything which it isn’t
@marandahir
It 100% is fair use, it falls into transformative content.
And modding games are within his right.
He does own the own, once you buy that physcial copy or even digital its 100% yours. You're confusing the game with the ip itself. And what terms and conditions are you even talking about? There is nothing to agree to when you're buying a game you either buy it or don't there nothing to sign.
The only thing remotely close I can think of to what you're saying is an online infrastruct for multiplayer games where things like cheating isn't allowed, but he isn't doing that either, its a single player game that hes just adding for content for via mods.
By all means explain the difference, because from what the guidelines say about fair use he falls under them.
I'd love to hear your explanation.
Since his content falls under fair use he should be able to monetize his videos no?
I doubt you even know what the actual "weight of law" is along with more of the people commenting on this article.
@iLikeUrAttitude Uh no “Fair Use” on an IP owned by someone does not give you the legal right to make money off it without contacting the owners for permission.
Plenty of cases that tried to use that as a shield lost. Making mods is not illegal in most scenarios, but profiting without the consent of the owner is not helping your case if someone like Nintendo pursues it .
Not to mention this is far from the first time for BoTW specifically of someone making money from mods that got into Nintendo’s [and by extension the law] crosshairs
https://www.inputmag.com/gaming/japanese-police-arrest-man-over-selling-mods-for-zelda-botw/amp
Anyway his Patreon has literally $10/$15 prices to “unlock” the mods which his monetized YT videos [yes this was confirmed on his discord because he feels it should be monetized] all blatantly advertise. It’s a pretty slam dunk case for Nintendo if this goes legal which I doubt will go that far unless the dude is that stupid. He should feel lucky his Patreon wasn’t touched yet.
As someone else here already shown in the comment section: IP owners can make Patreon kill off someone’s Patreon fund that uses unsanctioned mods for profit.
Nintendo is good at gaming but better with everything concerning the law. Kirby is there for that. They only have their IP for income. They are clearly going to defend them.
Nintendo is so afraid that somehow their image and or sales is going to be affected because somebody makes a mod or a fan game. Nintendo has to get off their high horse and pull their head out of their own special brown starfish holes.
@marandahir the law is uncertain, but you're describing a bad future.
When you purchase a game, it's yours. You can do with it as you please. See the Game Genie lawsuits of the 90's to see settled case law. You're free to modify any program you own.
What you're not free to do is redistribute copyrighted material or infringe on trademarks, which is why game projects get taken down. Nintendo has the law on its side here.
Now it's clear that you can't upload or steam movies, music, or tv shows. But games have for years been tolerated by the entire industry. Furthermore, there are fair use provisions that cover commentary, review/critique, and certain forms of derivative works. It's not clear what the law would say here if this went to court, but the industry condones it and modders have an incredibly reasonable case. They could even counter that their free speech rights are being suppressed with the take downs.
What will happen? Probably nothing. Modders don't have resources to fight this. YouTube is focused on profit and doesn't want to get involved.
But should we celebrate this? Absolutely not. Nintendo is being abusive here. And they're hurting some of their biggest fans.
@Arawn93
If that were truly the case then every single gaming channel would need to contact Nintendo for permission to record gameplay of their ips for their channels which they obviously don't.
This statement feels like you're saying "he shouldn't be doing it not cause its wrong but because this company is out to get you". At least you acknowledge modding isn't illegal in most circumstances.
In that article you provided that person was arrested for selling modded save game files that gave players an advantage in the game.
So it wasn't necessarily modding that got the person arrested but ones that fell into the category of cheating.
From the article I quote:
This law is only specific to Japan and no other country has anything similar to it to my knowledge.
(If I'm wrong please correct me, a source would be appreciated as well)
Since the modder doesn't live in Japan he should be fine.
Not sure how to feel about this part specifically about him having a patreon but I'm almost certain that other modders monetized their videos as well, but I'll have to get back to you on this specific part.
@Link-Hero "SEGA is a good example that does this. Why do they allow it?"
'provided no profit is involved' (This means that no money is gained as a result of the project)
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/05/sega_is_still_cool_with_sonic_fan_games_provided_no_profit_is_involved
It sounds like he was making money off of his mod videos, which would be a big no-no. It's not even surprising Nintendo took the videos down seeing how the Switch is their latest console and they wouldn't want videos up promoting the modding and hacking of their software.
I don't even know why anyone would think the decision was unfair on their part. They didn't even tell the guy to delete his mod either. What's the problem? It's pretty well known that if you make a mod for their older games that they won't go after you. They only seem to go for Fan games or videos of mods of their current generation games.
I don't get why so many people here, again, assume modding was illegal and Nintendo is working against it.
It isn't, Nintendo can still possibly take down these videos simply because the video shows material under copyright.
These videos can easily generate money after all, which changes things.
Now whether this is Fair Use is its own discussion.
It becomes an even bigger discussion when japanese companies are involved, because Japan, to my knowledge, does not have any "Fair Use".
The important part though: If they had legal ground against the mod itself, they wouldn't just take down videos of it.
@sanderev LMAO
You know, it’d be nice if these so-called ‘fans’ would just leave well enough alone, and focused their energies on enjoying what they had, instead of messing with it unnecessarily. Would make things so much better.
I figured it out. The name of the Sequel to Breath of the Wild is... Second Wind. Or something like that. And that's why they're ramping up. This isn't a copyright thing, it's a trademark thing. They don't want the internet full of this guy's content confusing people. Yeah, that must be it. -.-
@HotGoomba nintendo wouldn't be so harsh on mods if it weren't for the game genie fiasco.
Nintendo is 1000% in the right and anyone who is clearly showing their current Switch game ROMs running on a PC should not only have their videos attacked but should expect it at this point. Nintendo should also take them to court for potential loss revenue
No the solution isn't for people to make a stand against Nintendo. It's for him to make your his own IP. If his ideas are good he'll get at attention (not least some of which he already gotten by leeched from BOTWs popularity).
I think monetized large scale fan projects from adult fans which step on copyright are as dubious as bootlegs. Leave it to kids, teens and parodies.
If you're experienced enough to make such a big production. Why are you using someone else's IP? Other than easy attention/money?
Nintendo tend to mainly only shut down mods like this for current generation games. There are countless mods and rom hacks for older systems they don't bother with. There are hundreds of rom hacks released every year that Nintendo doesn't care about. The difference here is the only way to play this on Nintendo hardware is modding the software on the system itself opening it up to piracy. If this wasn't on Nintendo's current commercial product they probably wouldn't care as much but it is and they aren't doing anything that is wrong by trying to close it down.
@steventonysmith
OK, I am curious.
Under which law exactly would Nintendo be able to specifically target videos of Switch ROMs running on PC?
And don't just say something like "copyright", explain why exactly the law applies here.
It was explained a hundred times why mods are not illegal, yet the other side doesn't seem to explain anything.
Because at this point, huge parts of the Nintendo community seems to be anti-consumer, with no backing of the law when it comes to this topic.
It's getting annoying at this point.
@Zenszulu
Can you tell me which mod for a modern game Nintendo shut down in the past? Because I don't remember that ever happening.
Note that this mod wasn't shut down either.
@Dr_Lugae
And which part of copyright does a mod step on exactly?
Also, what kind of company simp do you have to be, that you, as a consumer, have a problem with mods? Projects of people who love the game so much, that they are trying to enhance the game for everyone without even making any money off of it.
And you lump them together with bootlegs, which are games that actively use big IPs to screw over consumers?
EDIT for a bit more clarity.
The comments on these kind of stories always amaze me.
Person takes something many people love, puts an amazing level of thought, care and passion into sharing that to the world, allowing others to further imagine and explore creativity.
What's the reaction? Not how can we encourage and develop human creativity but the usual shock horror and pearl clutching that a mega corporations intellectual property is being harmed and even worse, someone may be recompensed for their own creativity, as though it's somehow stealing to reuse something that already exists.
I know many will go on about the law and copyright blah blah blah but think what you are defending. The copyright argument is rolled out to defend those little creators being ripped off by others passing their work off as there own, when if one looks at the history of patents, trademarks, copyright and intellectual property they have never been about the protection of the little guy, and always about maintaining and centralising profits off human creativity by the already rich and powerful.
Half of you are like, 'but what about the lawyers' and 'what about Nintendo's profits'.
This guy isn't 'harming' anyone or anything and is yet another case of a massive corporation doing all they can to crush someone and extract even more cash out of the world for themselves.
@BarryandWill
I don't get this kind of behavior either.
It is a 100% anti consumer stance, displayed by consumers themselves. As if people would like to take away their own rights for no benefit.
And as explained again and again, there is not even anything illegal about mods, at least not usually.
People get angry about something that is to their own benefit, because it could potentially hurt profits of a big company a little bit, but not really, which is also completely legal.
Or in other words: Many people here are displaying just how much of a fanboy they actually are.
I am still not even convinced that Nintendo took down these videos because a mod is involved. They are, like many japanese companies, quite trigger happy when it comes to videos about their games in general.
@kirgo couldn't agree more. You know those stories where communities and activists take on the massive corporations and governments over polluting rivers or imprisoning innocents? Half of these guys would be going, 'yay lawyers' and 'but the law says...' - laws written by and for the massive corporations to protect their self-assumed notions of rights.
As children we are encouraged to be creative and we are encouraged to share. When Nintendo (and other organisations) act like this they behave like miserly hoarders maintaining a monopoly and control over what is 'theirs'.
I support the 'rights' of creative humans over the 'rights' of greedy companies every day of the week.
I was told on here the other day that modding games was 100% legal as long as the game isn't distributed? So what's the deal with nintendo taking down just videos of a mod
@UltimateOtaku91 For companies, the problem usually comes once the mods are overtly monetised
@jsty3105 so was this guy making money off his mods? Even if he isn't and he's allowing people to download them for free im sure that's still illegal
Or is it because he's making money from people subscribing to him on YouTube
Nintendo is taking down fan content, this means BOTW2 is likely coming out soon! This happened with when AM2R got taken out with a few months later, Metroid SR got announced.
"I am shocked, SHOCKED! Well, not that shocked." - the great Philip j. Fry
@UltimateOtaku91 Not illegal even if it was free. I don't think there's anything wrong with mods at all - but am sure most companies draw a line at paid mods. He was actively promoting his Patreon (Think it was through his channel in relation to the video regarding the mod - otherwise, I don't see much wrong at all with more generic promotions of anyone's Patreon).
@Snow-Dust "Nintendo is taking down fan content..." seems to be only this specific person's content so far so can't read too much into it
The only mistake this guy is making is in being so vocal about it. Nintendo does this crap constantly. The video's are just uploaded to another channel, rinse & repeat.
Big N seems to think they are more powerful and legally enabled than the creative and modding communities. BIG NEWS: Decades after the Big N is nothing but history, the modders and creators will still be doing this. Might as well toss the Rom Guys in there too.
No amount of rallying will change Nintendo's stance, and they have the coffers to feed their legal beast forever. The goal is never to stop modding or piracy directly, the aim to make it as miserable as possible for people like this in order to sow discouragement in others. In a pay to win legal world, Nintendo will always hold the upper hand.
@sebas150015
EULAs are actually illegal!
But somehow, companies keep getting away with using them.
@Krysus Being vocal is fine. His mistake was probably overly promoting his Patreon where he gets 'paid' for working on mods
I bet Nintendo is striking this down for copyright infringement of their music. I don't see what legal role Youtube has in enforcing Nintendo's anti-mod campaign. Playing a game and uploading a video should be considered fair use.
Where are all those people that say "Nintendo only takes down remakes" every time something like this happens?
@sebas150015 Copyright already lasts 70 years after the creator dies, and 95 years after release if the owner is a company, and you want copyright to be even longer?
They keep using the excuse that this is to benefit the small guy, help artists and their families, but it's always to benefit the big guy, making big companies become even richer than they already are, it's just like when YouTube removed dislikes with the excuse of helping small creators, small creators that were against this, this was made to benefit big companies, mainstream media and government.
@sebas150015 Nope, you can no longer extend copyrights, but even when you could, you could only renew once.
You can't "steal" an idea, if you make something, and I take it away without your consent, that's stealing, you don't have it anymore, but if you make something, and I make a copy of it, you still have the original, nothing was stolen.
Copyright is a protection that you can't make a copy either to protect the artist/creator, but copyright cannot last forever because there are always people who will make a better, improved copy, why do you care about an extention? You will be dead, and your children will probably be also dead.
Why public domain is a fair law:
@sebas150015 70 years after the creator dies is still not enough? Who cares about using the work of someone who died 70 years ago without permisson?
In a world without public domain, we would be still paying money for the family of Thomas Edison every time someone made a light bulb, we would be paying to use music by Mozart and Beethoven, Castlevania would never exist because Dracula would be still under copyright, and a school that made a theater play about Little Red Riding Hood would be sued by the descendants of Charles Perrault.
Is it that hard to understand that things like characters, stories and music are ideas, and ideas can't be owned? Creativity cannot be restricted by a company or a family forever, creativity should belong to humanity, copyright is temporary just to reward the artist so they can live from their work.
Copyrights expiring should be a good thing but the reality is a mixed bag. It lets us have Pride and Prejudice Zombies (Poor Jane Austen!) and have multiple different takes on Sherlock Holmes. Having stuff in the public domain is also why we have all those terrible e-book compilations of classic books, each trying to get visibility in an incredibly crowded marketplace.
Having said that, I don't think this case has anything to do with copyrights so discussions about it are moot.
Some people may think that Dracula is a legendary character, people in the Middle Ages believed he was real and were afraid of him, but he was created in 1897, by a known author, Bram Stoker, Dracula is not that old, and copyright laws existed back then and there were lawsuits about people copying Dracula without permission, like the movie Nosferatu.
If Dracula was still protected by copyright, Castlevania would never exist, or at least not like we know, and for those saying "Konami could just pay to use Dracula", they could, but it would be just like all those TMNT games that Konami made, but can't bring back because they don't own the franchise and can't use these games the way they want without a permit from Viacom.
@Kirgo
Copyright, Nintendo can enforce the law to take down videos of their copyrighted works being shown in a modified and stolen fashion. And they have, that's why they have won multiple court cases and won lawsuits against those distributing the ROMs
@victordamazio
Dracula entered the public domain in 1972, 75 years after his creation in 1897. So long before Castlevania was created. Their version of Dracula is a copyrighted work but they can't stop all versions of Dracula hence why Konami couldn't sue Sony for Hotel Transylvania
@steventonysmith Yes, the original book is public domain, but Dracula from Castlevania is a separate creation that is still under copyright, alongside all the original characters like Simon Belmont.
The cycle must continue, someday, Simon Belmont an all the other Castlevania characters should become public domain, and since Konami really doesn't care much for the franchise, making the fans own it is not that bad.
Alot failed to realize when you buy the game as someone says you buy Physical you own it. TRUE, but there is a clause called EULA that says you can't change or modified as part of your agreement when you bought the game. So in reality you bought to play but don't own the Rights to change or MOD the game. So everyone talking about his rights go and re-read the EULA for all game companies and they will say the same you can't change or modify it in any form or fashion.
Nintendo Switch Support
End User License Agreement
https://www.nintendo.com/sg/support/switch/eula/usage_policy.html#:~:text=%EF%BC%881%EF%BC%89The%20Software%20is%20licensed,or%20reverse%20engineer%20the%20Software.
Read the first 4 bullet points.
（1）The Software is licensed, not transferred to you.
（2）The License of the Software is a non-exclusive and may be withdrawn by Nintendo at any time.
（3）You may not use the Software for commercial purpose.
（4）You may not copy, duplicate, publish, transmit publicly, lease, modify or reverse engineer the Software.
Copyright ownership is not gonna get slashed. You would have everyone from big companies to the small artists pushing back against that.
Sorry leachers should focus on creating their own ideas instead of riding off the coattails of others after barely any time has passed
@steventonysmith
You are mixing multiple different things together.
Sure, when it comes to videos themselves, Nintendo may be able to do something (not so simple sintuation regarding Fair Use, but YouTube bends the knee to the comanies anyway), but this is more about having a gameplay video of any kind involving Nintendo material.
Distributing ROMs on the other hand are an obvious violation of copyright laws. This is basically exactly the purpose of those laws.
Mods are different from both of those scenarios, which is why Nintendo going against the videos, is not equal to Nintendo going against the mod. At least not officially.
@SwitchForce
Even if the EULA is to be interprated as you think it is (which is not that simple to interpret, because we have to clear up what the software in that context even is. The core software isn't really changed after all, a mod usually adds on to it instead. The mod also isn't a modified software, but a tool for the user to modify the software, if anything. Legal things are complicated...)
the EULA is irrelevant if laws state otherwise.
The copy of the software that I have here on my cartridge, is still something I own and I can do what I want with what I own. No EULA can change that.
Though of course these kind of things can be different depending of the laws of your country.
By your logic though, I wouldn't even be allowed to save the game, as creating a savegame which the game uses, can be seen as a modification.
Also, on a different note: If a game publisher could stop mods through an EULA like that.
Strange that no company ever does that, including Nintendo, still.
@Pokester99 I can't speak to all in Japan, but having worked for a Japanese-owned company, they have a very strong cultural feeling about their work. Hell, game modding in general is illegal in Japan itself as it is felt that you are to use the creations of a creator as they were intended and trying to change it into something else is an insult to the "art". It's not just a money thing (though that is totally part of it), but also a cultural thing
@Kirgo The part where he's profiteering off some else's IP.
Loving a series doesn't give a carte blanche to squeeze some cash out of it. It's shameless to exploit it that way and it shows he has no real respect for the actual developers.
Davide Soliani loved Mario, did he work on a Mario game behind Nintendo's back? No he collaborated and made Mario + Rabbids.
I want more Davide's working with Nintendo and less of these patreon leeches
@Kirgo Go Re-Read the EULA rights. Stop trying to perverse other then what it states. You can cry yourself blue that is their EULA and you have no qualms since you agreed when you bought the Games or eShop games. You dont like IP, CopyRight Laws, EULA, TOS laws and rules but they are their for a reason. Otherwise no companies would make or create games for anyone to buy and use. It's pretty simple if they have no protection for their IP why would they make it. That money goes back to their R&D and yeah shareholders but that's a different story. Without the return investment we have no games development. If that's your world view then you should sell off your game collection and go back to paper and pencil.
@Dr_Lugae
I give you the Patreon part, I didn't know they have that.
That can complicate things.
But you can't be serious comparing making a whole game with making a mod for a game? Those are very different things.
If I were to make a new "Zelda" game and distribute that, people could literally get my game instead of the original. I would directly hurt the potential profit Nintendo makes.
A mod on the other hand requires the original data to be present, so to play a mod, you still need to buy the original game made by Nintendo.
This isn't hurting Nintendos profit.
Also, a mod, which doesn't use reverse engineered code (which would be illegal) can only use functionality that is already in the game one way or another.
So a new Zelda game wouldn't get hurt by the mod either.
Modding a game in itself is still not illegal because of these things, making a standalone game is.
Also regarding patreon: While this can make things more complicated in court, I don't understand why you are talking about this in such a degrading manner.
Considering how much time and effort a mod like this requires, the patreon profits won't even repay them that.
To be honest, for calling them shameless and leeches just because of that, makes me think very lowly of you instead.
@Savage_Joe It goes by where the videos are served. Youtube would just have to not host the videos to its Japanese audiences and it could remain live everywhere else. They already do this with many videos to comply with local laws. Youtube wouldn’t exist if it had to follow each countries individual laws globally. That’s obvious
@SwitchForce Except those EULAs dont hold in the court of law for physical games. The reason is, the EULAs are not disclosed until after the purchase of the game (you have to boot the game up to read the EULA), and video games are non returnable items to retailers. It is not legal to sell someone a product and then force a contract on them after the sale is complete. This is documented on many legal resources that cover the specific subject at hand.
@Kirgo Not really it makes it very simple. He shouldn't be making money off an IP he doesn't own without permission. I lump him with bootleggers because they're doing the same thing with fewer steps.
It only complicates things for you because you don't really want to argue the reality of the situation. You want to argue from the perspective that this is some guy working purely out of the kindness of his heart and love of the series.
But he isn't.
@SwitchForce
Perhaps you should do that first.
For example, in my country I am specifically allowed to make copies of things regardless of copyright, as long as it is for personal use.
The part you quoted from the EULA would forbid me from doing that, but you know what? Doesn't matter in the slightest, because EULAs can't overwrite laws.
Also quite rich that you want to tell me about having to read something up. You techically didn't even link the EULA that would apply to most people here, as it is the one from Singapore. Though it doesn't really matter I suppose.
Also, I have no problems with the laws at all, a mod just doesn't cause problems with any of them.
If they were to distribute Nintendo software for example, that would be against copyright. That is not what they are doing though.
Their IP is still protected, a mod doesn't change that.
You are going on and on talking about a mod as if it was a standalone game.
Honestly makes me think you don't understand how a mod works.
Also, again about modification of software. No code in the original files was directly changed (at least that is a very likely assumption), just some files replaced, so is this still considered a modification of the software? Legally, it is not that easy to answer.
But all of this doesn't matter I guess, if you are correct, Nintendo will shut down the mod any day now, right?
I wonder what is keeping them, the mod is already available for a while after all...
@Dr_Lugae
It is not that simple, because if he profits, he profits very indirectly, and that is a big IF, as I am about to explain.
Not only can profiting from a mod be a legal (dark) gray zone depending on the exact law of each country. On a site like Patreon people can get money not directly for their work.
It further complicates things, because the modder himself says, on his patreon, that he isn't keeping any of the money for himself but gives it to people who make the tools he uses.
He also says specifically that he isn't selling anything through his patreon, not the mod nor any parts of it.
Assuming he isn't lying with any of that, all of this is legally significant.
Also you are putting someone who makes a mod and makes no profit (or if he lies, barely any profit) off it, on the same level as professional scammers who don't only use copyrighted material without any license to do so, but also scam anyone who buys this stuff and make a lot of money without much effort.
Think what you want about the modder, but putting them morally on the same level is just wrong.
Though what the bootleg creators do is usually not illegal either, mainly because they are usually selling in countries like China, where, to my knowledge, there is no law against these things.
Morally, they are still disgusting people.
“We took and used Nintendo’s assets without permission, so Nintendo ”attacked” my channel, so the idea is that we get a bunch of people to bltch about it to Nintendo so that we can force them to change their minds”.
It's their game so I don't think they are right, I know they are right!!
How anyone can think any different it's mind blowing to me 🤯
@Dr_Lugae In my country (USA) we have the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, which gives you the legal right to modify any item, and to make your own modifications to distribute and sell.
Of course you can't sell the base game, but you can certainly sell the mod add on you built. That is why you will see many websites who would never dare host a game ROM, hosting the mod patch for the game. You can download the patch from them, but have to dump your own ROM or search on shady websites or torrents to get the ROM.
It was actually just 3 and a half years ago the Nintendo was sent a warning letter by the FTC, because because they were up to shady practices like this in relation to video game consoles. Stuff like putting warning labels on their system saying that your warranty is void if you open or modify the system. Yeah that thing that game companies having been doing for years, was totally illegal under American law. But these big companies will try to bully people into doing their will, wether they have the right to or not. (See Sony losing all their lawsuits against "Bleem!", but effectively shutting Bleem! down, as they went bankrupt from legal fees.)
@Tim_Vreeland notice they don't cite what legal precedent-that's all you need to know. So what clause are we referring to? Oh EULA holds up in court otherwise they wouldn't be there. Your equating a letter from FTC as law and it's not. Man people like to stretch something unrelated.
Magnuson Moss Warranty is about warranty nothing in it relates to the EULA.
@Kirgo more uninformed people think they know law when they know squat.
Attacked your channel? lol the game does not belong to you which means nintendo can do as they please.
Has anyone successfully taken Nintendo to court and won for them taking down one of their videos or taking down their site that hosted ROMs of current and/or games?
@Tim_Vreeland
Did you not think we had access to Google?
The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act is a United States federal law. Enacted in 1975, the federal statute governs warranties on consumer products. The law does not require any product to have a warranty, but if it does have a warranty, the warranty must comply with this law.
@locky-mavo
The fun part that others are falling to realize, is Nintendo has calmed down and allowed people to make a living off Nintendo videos. However they will still come at them if they post anything about Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo games running on PC and Mods. So basically don't be an illegal dork with Nintendo's stuff and they will be chill
@SwitchForce
Exactly.
We have tons of people here who know for sure what is illegal.
Funny how many people studied law and did the necessary research about the details of this case to come to a final conclusion. Most people probably didn't even research in which country the creator lives.
An they are not only legal experts, but also experts when it comes to copyright law and software specifically.
Expert enough to be able to know that decades of modding of all kinds of games without consequences have actually been illegal all the time, with every company just not noticing that they are being screwed over but could easily do something about it.
If only one of those companies had legal experts like you.
@steventonysmith The funniest and lamest attempt was by Romuniverse (who somehow still had hundreds of seemingly rational people defending the site) despite directly earning a living from a site charging for premium access to pirated movies and Switch games that were featured front and centre on the homepage.
@Pokester99 He very clearly said it was from his own personal experience gained by working with a Japanese-owned company.
While you might have a different level of understanding regarding Japanese culture, it doesn't invalidate EagleDelta's experience.
@Pokester99 I've worked with Japanese people and understand East Asian mentality. Respect is paramount.
Your reaction to @EagleDelta2 regarding the sharing of his personal experience is frankly OTT and off-base.
@steventonysmith video games have warranties….
@SwitchForce Video games have warranties, thats how they relate. Under the act a warranty cannot be voided because a user or third party uses a modification. Therefore if said item has a warranty, the company granting the warranty is granting you the right to modify the product… otherwise their warranty would be in violation of the act… illegal. This is a law. Its not that hard to put two and two together.
@SwitchForce oh here you go… actual legal cases where EULAs dont hold up in the court of law… and would you look at that… for the very same reasons I said above. Because the contract is not disclosed until after the sale is completed and the item is non returnable…. You know… video games you buy from Target… they dont do returns on open video games… do you have some actual court cases documented that you would like to share that proves the opposite of what I am saying? Or are you just going by hearsay on the internet?
“ The term shrink-wrap license refers colloquially to any software license agreement which is enclosed within a software package and is inaccessible to the customer until after purchase. Typically, the license agreement is printed on paper included inside the boxed software. It may also be presented to the user on-screen during installation, in which case the license is sometimes referred to as a click-wrap license. The inability of the customer to review the license agreement before purchasing the software has caused such licenses to run afoul of legal challenges in some cases.
Whether shrink-wrap licenses are legally binding differs between jurisdictions, though a majority of jurisdictions hold such licenses to be enforceable. At particular issue is the difference in opinion between two US courts in Klocek v. Gateway and Brower v. Gateway. Both cases involved a shrink-wrapped license document provided by the online vendor of a computer system. The terms of the shrink-wrapped license were not provided at the time of purchase, but were rather included with the shipped product as a printed document. The license required the customer to return the product within a limited time frame if the license was not agreed to. In Brower, New York's state appeals court ruled that the terms of the shrink-wrapped license document were enforceable because the customer's assent was evident by its failure to return the merchandise within the 30 days specified by the document. The U.S. District Court of Kansas in Klocek ruled that the contract of sale was complete at the time of the transaction, and the additional shipped terms contained in a document similar to that in Brower did not constitute a contract, because the customer never agreed to them when the contract of sale was completed.”
@RubyDevilNine Oh look no rebuttals to anything I said.
Yeah I'll keep believing it because it's true and he's still within his right.
Also he didn't make any ROMs, he simply made mods for a game which he is allowed to do.
Please do your research.
@RubyDevilNine I did do my own research actually, I even provided sources to back up my claims. Just scroll up and read my previous comments, which you obviously haven't done.
You however have yet to say anything of substance or back up any of your claims and now you just resorted to being a broken record, it's actually sad.
True many fan made projects were C&Ded, but that doesn't mean they were right in doing so, that's what this whole argument was about in the first place. But knowing Nintendo they probably weren't, they're the only company that goes this far with their ips.
At least in this instance, taking down the modders videos on youtube was just them abusing the copyright system on youtube, not them being justified.
The amount of people here not knowing what "fair use" is really staggering. Like someone here actually said "hacking and modding are 100% legal" with a serious face. Like I can't.
I'm not sure if this comment page is viewed very often but this is actually not the case.
From their official discord:
"Recently there's been talk of some YouTube videos getting taken down and it's being seen as Nintendo taking down Second Wind content. I just want to assure you that this is not the case. The videos taken down were solely for that channel and for reasons we believe are unrelated to the existence of Second Wind. This channel is also starting a campaign with the goal of changing Nintendo's policy on the matter. Second Wind is not taking part or asking any of its members to join this movement. We recognise that it presents a potential danger to the modding community, the freedoms we currently enjoy and as such we do not endorse it."
@SlickWoody good stuff! Provides useful context
I don't think mods are necessarily the reason Nintendo attacks these videos with such gusto. It's that in order to mod Breath of the Wild you are in possession of an illegal rom and broadcasting this fact in the videos. Nintendo does not want it to be publicly known you can get their most recent games as ROMs
Tap here to load 201 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...