Switch Hacking Group Leader Gary Bowser Agrees To Pay Nintendo $4.5 Million

Looks like Nintendo attracts Bowsers of all occupations and motives.

So Bowser attacked Bowser's company, only for Bowser to win in then end.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Very, very Good news

I like to think this is the secret brother of Doug Bowser and both have taken different sides in some sort of life long Nintendo themed struggle. Who knows if they will ever reconcile.

Bowser vs. Bowser.

Bowser wins!

@bluemage1989 : Or perhaps Gary is the Wario to Doug’s Mario.

Why destroy those consoles when Nintendo should be in their right to confiscate and fully refurbish them with fresh OS updates....

I wonder if in the future he'll release a biography called Bowser's Inside Story.

"a piracy group known for exploiting vulnerabilities in video game consoles"

This same sentence should be included in the articles talking about fan projects because it is exactly the same scenario.

When a device can be hacked with a small piece of tinfoil, that’s pretty laughable mr Bowser.

This guy must have made some serious paper.. nobody better claim Nintendo going after the little guy. This dude became super rich!

@Silly_G then who's Luigi?

Bowser still won. Though still very unfortunate for Bowser. I bet Bowser's happy.

@bluemage1989 That's a movie I'd go see!!

@Thelastjedi2007 : Don’t be silly. Palette-swapped people don’t exist in real life.

It’s very easy to think of a hacker as a kid in a hoodie on a skateboard who breaks into companies to hone his skill for fun, but when you hear he’s able to pay four and a half million dollars, it really puts into perspective the sort of criminal this guy is.

SO LONG GARY BOWSER

@Gwynbleidd I didn't say that they were doing any of the things that you say, I stated they use the same ways to break into the games.

@SamirMalik
It's not like they would sell refurbished consoles. The model that Gary Bowser had was likely the 2017 model; the one that Nintendo phased out in 2019 by removing the paper clip exploit.

If this article was published on Kotaku, they'd be praising him for hacking lmao

I’m kinda surprised. I thought his relative would’ve gotten off easier. It’s way to much of a coincidence for both the head of NOA and this guy to share the same family name.

Yes!! Get them Nintendo. If you're going to provide hacks to the world, make sure they don't allow the play of current gen games! It really is that simple. Otherwise enjoy Nintendo's team of world class lawyers.

@EliteXeos which is why kotaku is a laughing stock

Reverse engineering privately owned pieces of electronics shouldn't be a crime in and of itself.
Distributing knowledge of how to do it shouldn't either.

Now, making money on promising people they get out of paying for copyrighted material?
That one's a little more dicey.

I hope he's got the dough to pay what he agreed on.
It's silly to make example cases out of people like this, where they need to go to jail because they can't pay exorbitant fines.

Hahahaha good I'm glad go Nintendo

Bowser always loses in the end

I use SXOS. It's a great custom firmware. It's dead now though there hasn't been an update in almost a year. They'll probably never come back. But who knows.

What about nintendo breaking laws against their customers? They sent me a digital copy of mario all stars instead of physical and wont refund me or send me the physical one that I paid for.

@dew12333 Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about.

@westman98 Damn it, you beat me to it.

Did he think because his name was Bowser this was his only option in life? While at the same time another Bowser ascended to the top of Nintendo, you really can't make this stuff up.

"Crimes against Nintendo?" What is this? Judgment at Nuremburg?

Bowser gonna bowser

Erm... C64?! Are you sure?

@Pod he agreed to pay the money there is no doubt he made a hell of a lot more. Not sure how anyone could have any sympathy for a guy who has made millions.

@kobashi100
I don't know who would exclude a human from sympathy just because they're wealthy.
But you're probably right that he agreed to pay that much because he's able to.

I wonder how they calculated/estimated the loses? I guess it would be very difficult to put an exact figure on it as they've literally no idea what users are doing with these after they've bought them.

From the linked plea agreement is seems he only made around $320,000 in the years he was doing it and that included advertising income from the website. Doesn't really seem worth it when you get slapped with $4.5m in damages.

@Skunkfish
I love how well your comment goes with the unamused profile shot of Roland.

Silly fools in selling the hacks which was there biggest downfall.

I knew that Bowser was no good. Trying to make his Uncle Doug look bad.

@Gwynbleidd That last comment of yours was super interesting information, thank you for that! Would love to hear more about things like that!

I met a guy at starbucks who added over 200 SNES games to my SNES mini for 30 bucks.... Wonder what Nintendo would do to that guy. He was advertizing on Facebook. I guess its a simple mod but i dont know how lol

@dew12333 Ok, you’re clearly trolling/baiting with that uninformed opinion, so I’m not gonna bother attempting to correct it. Sometimes, it’s good to just let people be wrong.

@EliteXeos It literally was, and they weren't? About as neutral as here, really, with commenters chiming in about how greedy and arrogant Xecuter had gotten - enough even the rest of the hacking community was kind of glad to see them go: https://kotaku.com/1847979149

Kotaku has its problems, absolutely, but so much of the hate I see for it seems so disconnected from anything real. It's not gonna kill anyone (okay, maybe the excess number of ads legitimately might! ) to occasionally see the articles themselves instead of repeating a whole mythos mostly based on some particularly awful headlines getting bounced around social media.

@Gwynbleidd What you are talking about (EULAs vs, legality) isn’t the whole truth in American court. A EULA is not a law, but a policy. And policy =/= law. What a EULA actually does is give legal precedence for a company to ATTEMPT to prove damages in either a court of law or in civil arbitration. If the damages can be proven in that setting to be illegal, THEN it is considered to be so, and fines and/or jail sentences are given out.

Otherwise, corporations would have an unreasonable amount of power, because they write their own EULAs with (or without) their own legal teams.

The purpose of the EULA is to set precedence, nothing more. By themselves, they are useless documents. They only gain power if the actions taken against them are PROVEN to have caused damages to the company in a court/civil arbitration setting.

@dmcc0 Corporations attempt to calculate the presumed losses, based on estimates. It is then attempted to be proven in court if the estimation of damages is correct. Courts can adjust the estimates if they are unreasonable/unrealistic (this guy hit my car and I hurt my butt! I need 10 million to cover medical costs!) but in this case it seemed that they were able to prove that their estimated damages were correct.

@Ironcore You would have to take them to court and sue them for civil damages. All crimes need to be proven in some kind of legal setting to take hold. It’s not just a crime because it’s on the books, that’s a big part of it, but still just a part of a process. Nintendo screwed you, but until it’s proven in court, they didn’t. See what I mean?

Only at Nintendo can can the corporate rep and the criminal stealing from them both have the same name as their cartoon mascot.

Wonder if Mickey Rooney ever tried to run/steal from Disney?

Speaking of thieves and Nintendo, how about that NSO+ pricing?

@westman98 Carp! You beat me to it!

@NEStalgia
Daniel Arth Vader will be the one who tries to run/steal from Disney.

And people complain about the price of the NSO expansion. Way cheaper than the price of 4.5 million to emulate it on Switch hehe.

This is kind of strange.

@Gwynbleidd I'm not questioning your point, so you don't need to explain it again. I'm just saying that none of it matters until proven in court/civil trials, because you were talking about it being legal or not. A EULA is garbage until it's in the hands of a lawyer, and weighed in by court. Otherwise we'd have feds knocking on our...hang on, gotta get the door.

Bowser v Bowser (2021)

I shudder at the prospect of referring to rich multinational corporations as "victims" and to copies of digital goods as "losses."

In the end, it's just another battle won in Nintendo's war against video game archival.

@BloodNinja Nope just an opinion and not trolling, it may be a bit baity but I seriously do not want replies. My opinion is based on my hate of game cheats, and the many way people have ruined my gaming experiences over the years. I choose to group people that use any methods to break into games as the same, due to the fact that will often use the same methods and therefore help each other. Therefore I do not feel that my opinion is uninformed and have to give you a 'Dew Disapproves'!
I can promise not to splurge my opinion over ever article in future but cannot guarantee to not do it again sometime. I am sorry if that offends and would like to hope that you wouldn't ignore me as I often enjoy your comments.

@Bret Please don't apologise, thank you.

@BloodNinja I don't recall reading that they proved the costs, just that the Bowser fellow didn't dispute them - there's a big difference. I don't doubt they try to estimate them, but my point is there's no (accurate) way to do that.
They'd probably try to argue that for each device sold the user would download X amount of ROMs on average thus losses = Devices Sold * X * $50. The notion that each ROM downloaded is a lost sale is nonsense though, especially for legacy systems where you can't actually buy the games anymore.

@dmcc0 Definitely a consideration. Remember that Bowser is being advised by a lawyer too, so he was probably told not to dispute things too much, lest things get out of hand for him. Sometimes, judges will slap you with harsher sentences if you don’t show remorse for the crime committed. By choosing not to dispute his guilt, he may have made the sentence easier on himself.

@dew12333 If I don’t want replies to something on a public, open forum, I don’t comment. You can’t state something completely misinformed, back-track stating “it’s only opinion” and then say you don’t want replies. Really trolly. You didn’t even state an opinion in your OP, you made a direct comparison and concluded that making fan games is the same as circumventing hardware. There’s not even a comparison. Is modding your car the same as grand theft auto, in your eyes? LOL Sorry, I’m on the warpath this morning apparently 🥳

GOOD! Now pay up Hackers! Do the crime, pay an arm and a leg LOL!!!

Wish I could hack my Mariko switch Nintendo's prices are ridiculous

@skycargav2000 you plug the SNES mini into a computer & use some free software called hakchi just download the ROMs & sync them to the console , it works with the nes & mega drive mini aswell

That's nice, but I don't feel bad for Nintendo in the slightest.

@Gwynbleidd
I believe it does depend quite heavily on country.
While TECHNICALLY you can add clauses like that in your EULA here in Denmark, I'd be hard pressed to think of a single time it has been enforced legally against a civilian individual.

@Would_you_kindly What in particular are you looking to play?

@Pod quite a few Nintendo games I've only had my switch a year so there's alot of games I missed but I wait for discounts on most games because I don't have alot of money unfortunately with Nintendo games they rarely get discounts & when they do it's never more than 33%

@BloodNinja "Is modding your car the same as grand theft auto, in your eyes?"

lol now THAT'S ninja approved.

Pirates loses to Nintendo again what a surprise

@Bret I should have approved it

@dew12333 You did not state an opinion so much as you made ***** claims. You can "disapprove" being called out on your BS all you like. Changes nothing.

This punishment goes too far.

Nintendo just doesn't wanna share. You see it all the time

@Pod In an earlier article I recall the agreed amount he had to pay is $50 a month.

At $600 a year they're not actually going to get anywhere near $4.5million from him or render him destitute. But he will be paying Nintendo for it for the rest of his life.

Gary Bowser has brought shame to the Bowser name, I bet Dough Bowser, King Bowser, Prince Bowser Jr. and Gary Oak are all appalled by this man's actions. Tsk Tsk shame on him!

@Would_you_kindly
Hope you find the means to play them if you have the time for it!
Personally I'm buried in games I need to play. ^^

Still nothing will come of it if he doesn't have the money just like the other guy this happened to. The Justice system has better things to do and should stop worrying about this kinda *****.

@Dr_Lugae Unless he moves to another Country where they don't have jurisdiction, which is basically any other Country lol.

Dark Gary.

I hope he has a black hat and a soul patch.

I don't think he earned nor have that amount of money but he probably thinks it's better to reach an agreement.

Nintendo spend more money on pursuing hackers and emulation than on new games development!

@Gwynbleidd @Pod I agree with both of you, reverse engineering should never be illegal. Selling hacking devices or pirated software, that's another story.

@BloodNinja Interesting, that's what I was thinking. Here, the company can make you sign whatever they want you to when setting up a console or playing a game but it doesn't mean it's legal and a judge won't even consider the document if it doesn't comply with the law. The best example is Nintendo abusing customers and how they had to backtrack their digital policies in UK/EU although they are still horrible. The interesting part is that Nintendo think it's legal because they make you (force you to) agree but the reality is that it's them who are acting illegally. Other examples are the loot boxes, the joy-con drift, the warranty time and the refund policies. If not for the law, Nintendo would be even more abusive.

@Pod I can always use yuzu or ryujinx to emulate them if I'm desperate to play them but id prefer to buy them & play them on the switch

@BlueOcean That's a very good point!

@NEStalgia Yeah what about Nintendo's crimes? They are the reason why people are so obsessed with hacking and pirating Nintendo. Overpriced Expansion Pack with awful emulation, anyone?

@BloodNinja Thanks!

Nintendo of America...
Dominican Republic...

I thought the old Apple case of Jail-Breaking set precedent that any and all tech was allowed to be modded once purchased.

It isn't his fault that people are using his work-around to pirate and steal games.

Wonder what the chances are that Nintendo invests that $4.5 million into a solving its own “circumvention of technology” aka joy con drift?!

it's rather shocking to see that many people here don't seem to give a crap about piracy or 'justice' per se.
That guy made millions(!) with basicely stolen stuff.
This has nothing to do with "preservation". Do you REALLY think this man gives a single sh*t about "saving games for future generations"?

but yeah keep on defending that poor excuse of a human being because of "evil corps".
I dunno what Nintendo's policies have anything to do with that.
If you don't like them, don't agree to them and don't buy their software (this is not a free-ticket to piracy btw).
I don't understand how you can support a company THAT evil and 'abusive' by any means.

And yet bowsers brother became president lol, so bowser wins.
We need Super mario with his cape to handle stuff like this. He just stomps the criminals lol.

Bowser landed on a Bowser Space. Ouch!

So long, gay Bowser!

I'm sure that the residents of New Donk City will sleep better tonight, knowing that Bowser is finally off the streets and where he belongs.

Would have been more impressive if he had been charged with "Conspiracy to Circumvent Technological Measures and to Traffic in Circumention Devices" and "kidnapping princesses"

@Austrian People won't stop liking something that have been part of their childhood memories just like that. Besides, if people don't agree with what Nintendo do, they might get better. If there is something that they don't like, they don't support it, at least that's what I do, e.g., Nintendo Online Expansion Pack.

Being Austrian, remember how bad the PAL version of Super Mario 64 is, without the correct ratio and 50Hz. I don't feel that I'm stealing anything or committing a crime by playing Super Mario 64 on Windows or on 3DS (my favourite port) because I purchased (or was given) the game for N64, Wii, Wii U (cross-buy discount) and Switch (Super Mario 3D All-Stars). I just feel like I'm using the best emulation on Windows/3DS. Just an example. Even if there are people that don't agree with that, I respect it but I honestly don't care. Playing roms of games you have purchased is not illegal, anyway.

Finally, agreeing with something that a company sells doesn't mean that you lose your legal rights, as we have explained above. You are forced to agree with their written cr*p when you get the goods but consumer rights prevail (in the first world). It doesn't matter that nobody forced you to buy, nobody will, but you still have the same rights as a consumer.

@Dr_Lugae Indeed. The amount is to create an example of those who infringed on the law, while at the same time making payments are meant to be reasonable amount as few people have a million dollars to throw around. However, if this person was a millionaire I'm sure the courts would be less kind.

If I remember correctly Nintendo even sent a fan a copy of Wind Waker HD Special Edition because they were paying Nintendo the fees they (Nintendo) won in court on time. So, yeah while a large amount it won't leave the defendant destitute.

@BlueOcean Not necessarily true... just because you bought a game on one platform does not entitle you to one on another. For example just because I bought Mass Effect for Xbox 360 does not entitle me to have a copy for my PS3 or PC.

Now emulation is completely legal, but, we have to remember that getting the ROM and ISO files off a website to play on your PC or other consoles via emulation can be illegal. However, if you're ripping your own copy of Super Mario 64 and are not distributing that ROM you are completely okay! Roms and emulation do exist in this murky grey area and it is a misnomer to assume because you bought a copy of a game in the past it allows you to download it from the web from pirate sites.

This video actually does the best non-biased explanation on the topic if people are interested. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzWD28zAwQM&ab_channel=16BitReview

@Wexter "Not necessarily true... just because you bought a game on one platform does not entitle you to one on another."

I didn't say that, read again!

@BlueOcean You did infer it with

"I don't feel that I'm stealing anything or committing a crime by playing Super Mario 64 on Windows or on 3DS (my favourite port) because I purchased (or was given) the game for N64, Wii, Wii U (cross-buy discount) and Switch (Super Mario 3D All-Stars). I just feel like I'm using the best emulation on Windows/3DS. "

I was just clarifying the legality of that statement. I also noted as long as you're ripping the Roms yourself you're completely in the clear. At least in the US and Canada (not sure in Australia) so I was just clarifying the legality of emulation and ROMs/ISOs. It is a misnomer that just because you bought the game you are allowed to download it from the web whenever you wanted and plug it into whatever system you want. - That is a general misnomer I see a lot on this site so I do apologize if you were not inferring that mindset.

@Wexter Still, what you understood and corrected is not what I said. I said "I don't feel that I'm stealing anything or committing a crime" and "I just feel like I'm using the best emulation on Windows/3DS. Just an example. Even if there are people that don't agree with that, I respect it but I honestly don't care." This is just how I feel!

Nowhere in my comments I am saying that I'm "entitled to" (your words, not mine) and the only sentence that includes the word "legal" or "illegal" is "Playing roms of games you have purchased is not illegal, anyway". That's the one and only thing I said about legality.

@BlueOcean I was using the legal usage of the word "entitled" not in an insulting way. The legal definition of entitled is "entitled means you have a legal right to something." And the law does not care about people's feelings on a subject it just cares about what is or is not permissible. I'd personally love to buy a game once then be able to play it on whatever I want, whenever I want, but that is not how the law works.

As for the games you buy, you're actually buying a licence to said game, not the game itself. As for playing the ROMs of games you own I did **correctly** point out that is only for backups/archives of ROMs you personally made/ripped from the product you own. I even pointed this out in my initial comment i.e. "However, if you're ripping your own copy of Super Mario 64 and are not distributing that ROM you are completely okay!" So as I pointed out if you own the game (it is currently in your possession), and you ripped your own copy you can do with whatever you want with the backup/archived copy that **you made** provided you are not distributing the ROM. This is true of all software you buy that you are allowed to make a backup of your legally obtained and owned piece of software.

The reason sites get into trouble is because they distribute the ROM file without the license owner's permission. That is a violation of copyright law, and because you are playing a copy of a game to one you did not own (i.e. you are not entitled to the ROM of my copy of Super Mario 64 even if I made the backup and are distributing it, only your own copy of Super Mario 64) that is where the illegality of it comes up.

As I correctly pointed out and even stated what you do with your legally obtained ROM Backup/Archive is none of my business and is completely legal provided you are not distributing it. That is where emulation exists in a legal grey area. It is not the emulators that are the problem it is the distribution and downloading of ROM and ISO files. Yes, it is not "stealing" however it is unlawful reproduction and distribution that is the problem.

EDIT: And to make this VERY clear. I love emulators and use them all the time, I even use fan mods to games (most recently I modded the heck out of Mass Effect Legendary Edition), and I wish there was an easier way to preserve games. But, the law does not care about my feelings it only cares about what is or is not permissible under the law.

@Wexter I can't be wrong because I am talking about how I feel and I know how I feel. You are wrong from the start because I didn't say what you understood and your words don't reflect what I said. You are basing your replies on what you think I say, not on what I say. I was expressing my feelings and, obviously, that doesn't have anything to do with the law, as you have admitted now. In my comment I wrote "Even if there are people that don't agree with that, I respect it but I honestly don't care". I couldn't be clearer so I don't get why you are so confused. Probably, it's because you are adding a lot of stuff of your own. End of the "feelings" conversation.

There is nothing in my comments about legality except the sentence you also agreed with. End of the discussion about legality.

Everything else is just on your mind.

@BlueOcean When you comment about I don't feel like I'm "stealing" is not the discussion point here. The law does not care about my or your feelings though and this article is about the law. And as I even said if you are making your own backups then it does not matter how you feel because if you're doing something legally then how could you be "stealing" this tells me you do not do that and feel like I called you out for downloading ROMs from the web.

And also you're feeling can be proven wrong because it is about actions, not feelings. If you are downloading something off the web, your action may feel righteous and correct but still, be empirically illegal. Also, using the term "I feel" does not clear you of criticism to a statement.

If you said "I feel that downloading ROMs and being able to play them on the emulator of my choosing if I own the game should be legal. It should not be considered stealing as I already paid Nintneod for said game."

We can have an honest discussion about that feeling.

However when you say and I quote :

"I don't feel that I'm stealing anything or committing a crime by playing Super Mario 64 on Windows or on 3DS (my favourite port) because I purchased (or was given) the game for N64, Wii, Wii U (cross-buy discount) and Switch (Super Mario 3D All-Stars). I just feel like I'm using the best emulation on Windows/3DS."

That tells me that we are not talking about legally ripped copies of the game (as you would have clarified you made a copy) we are talking about a pirated copy.

This line, however, "Playing roms of games you have purchased is not illegal, anyway." is an empirical statement and while true (if it is a ripped copy of your legally owned copy), also comes off as a CYA and is the murky part that I was discussing and was clarifying. As your statement was vague and seemed to come off as conflating a downloaded copy with a legally ripped backup. They are two VERY different things.

• Downloaded copies of games from the web even if you own the game is illegal. Does not matter how you feel that is the truth.
• Ripped copies of a game you currently own are legal (provided it is for your personal use and not distributed). You made a legally obtained backup file to a game you own.

This is my point. If you want to discuss how you "feel" about something that is fine. But don't put in a comment about something being legal without clarifying your statement as you are now conflating your feelings with objective legal truth. As lawyers, judges and the law don't care about feelings as ever saying "judge I feel the law is this" will result in very bad things for you.

And before you say the Police don't arrest people for piracy... they have... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/11/minnesota-woman-songs-illegally-downloaded They just don't pursue it that often.

@Wexter That is absolutely and utterly nonsense. I can feel that I'm not stealing nor committing a crime (my words) even if, according to you, I'm stealing by playing an unofficial port of a game I have purchased on several platforms (I didn't say "own"). If that's legal or illegal, it's not what I said. If I think that's right for me, it's my problem and I'm not worried at all.

You should admit that you are talking nonsense of your own and being infinitely stubborn about something that only I know (my feelings). When somebody tells you "I feel like this" you don't have to add anything else, it's how they feel. If you don't understand that, you have a big problem understanding people, which you obviously have.

@BlueOcean You don't handle criticism well, do you? Because I feel that is how you're acting. But, what I was doing was clarifying that even if you "FEEL" that way, it is not true. And I never said you were "stealing" where do you "feel" that I said that? I made it very clear that is not what I said, I did factually say - "It is not the emulators that are the problem it is the distribution and downloading of ROM and ISO files. Yes, it is not "stealing" however it is unlawful reproduction and distribution that is the problem." - This is not me accusing you of stealing, that is a factual statement about the issue around emulation.

So how I feel, is that you felt called out and are now defending what you said behind the vague subjective statement of "feelings" rather than what it was me just clarifying the legality of something for everyone else here. If you understand the legality of what I'm saying why did you respond in the first place? How did that make you feel?

@Wexter I can have conversations and discussions with sensible people but you are not. You are the one that don't handle any criticism well. You were wrong from the start and made up a story on your mind and still don't accept it. When somebody talks about their feelings, it's their feelings. It has nothing to do with yours nor the law. I feel really great before and after, thank you, but you seem to have serious problems trying to shoehorn your mindset into others and probably need professional help that I can't provide. Wish you luck with that, sincerely.

@BlueOcean You know I was only getting snarky at the end because you were behaving defensively and are assuming my intentions from the start. You're the one creating the story that I'm victimizing you which is the farthest thing from the truth. I was making a clarification statement, and you pounced on me like I was attacking you which once again I will re-iterate is very far from the truth. Also, when you keep saying "I feel" that is not the point of what I was saying at all. I did not care if you did or did not pirate a game. I was just making it very clear that piracy yes while not stealing is still very much so illegal despite how you may feel on the subject and clearing up a misnomer. And honestly, for the most part up until my last comment, I was being very polite and even offering several outs you could have taken.

Either way, hope you have a great day because clearly what I said offended you and I'm sorry about that. But, honestly, in the future, you need to be more clear about what you are talking about.

@Wexter I was perfectly clear from the start. Believe me when I say that you haven't hurt me at all. I only care about not letting others put their words in my mouth but I don't care if they agree with me or not, especially considering that we were talking about feelings. If we are talking about facts, they don't have to agree either because facts are facts. I think that everyone that reads this will know.

@BloodNinja I really don't get were I said that making a fan game and circumventing hardware are the same thing. And really I assure you my opinion is correct, my personal opinion is always correct.. But please let me elaborate why I feel this way because I do not write this to troll, I do it because this allows me too and people can disagree, write crappy comments or whatever that's up to them but it won't change the way I feel. So... When I was young I used to be able to hack into a spectrum game to change the characters and other things, and at a similar time someone else worked out that if they did the same hack into the game then they could change things in order to be able to copy that cassette recording and give a copy to your mate. Over the years companies made those things harder and therefore communities started, ie. 4chan etc. , to help people discuss ways around systems. Some of those people went off and used that information to make fan games and some people went off and used it to do other things. I maybe generalizing somewhat but I find that all a bit shady, and wish that both parties would just play the bloody things.

@BlueOcean I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I apologized multiple times if I was or was not inferring your intention on something. I was also clearly just discussing the common misconception of "I own sad game I'm allowed to download it from a pirate site" which IS VERY NOT TRUE! And you shoved tons of words in my mouth like I was "accusing you of stealing" which is not true. You reacted hostilely about me using the word "entitled" when I was discussing broadly not necessarily about you. Also, I was not putting words in your mouth as I was directly quoting parts of what you said which lead me to certain conclusions of what you were saying.

I'm not asking for an apology, but honestly, you were reacting very defensively when all I did with my initial reply was clearing a legal misconception with what you were saying. But, either way at this point I'm at an impasse as you're clearly not listening to what I've said at all.

@dew12333 I don't think you have a crappy opinion at all. Seems like a fairly fair way of discussing how learning to program and develop within an existing game is a great way to learn! Seems you learned a lot by doing that. We can discuss distribution without licencer consent, but I don't think that is the point of what you are saying.

I do think the Team Xecuter was doing some very, VERY shady stuff. But, to lump them in with fan devs and those who just want to learn development is for sure out of line and unfortunately, both use similar tools to do so (the situation of homebrew is not black and white unfortunately for this very reason).

I do think, however, in the future maybe removing a bit of the bait might get you more relaxed replies.

Great i hate piracy

@Wexter Thank you for your comment, I appreciated that.

And just to confirm I obviously feel very different with regards to people making fan games than say Mr Bowser here. In fact I want them to have as much fun as they can and then maybe one day I will get to play one of their games.

And yes back in the spectrum days I would spends days writing out programs whilst leaving it constantly on because I had no clue how to save anything. I did that so much that my parent took the plug off my spectrum, so I used a pencil and pushed the wires in the plug socket. I can tell you now the feeling of hearing my parents about to 'bust' me for doing it at three in the morning and knowing I was going have to pull the wires out of the wall and lose all my work AGAIN! But to be honest I was rubbish at it and generally ruined the game rather than making it better, this is were I concluded that it was best to leave it to other people.

Thanks again for the message, take care