It's long been said – mostly by the company's critics, admittedly - that Nintendo 'doesn't get' online. While Microsoft and Sony (and, you could argue, Sega) led the charge when it came to connecting console gamers to the World Wide Web, Nintendo was happy to sit back and focus on producing amazing games and innovative hardware – a strategy that arguably worked just fine during the DS and Wii eras, thank you very much.
That stance has changed with Switch, which – with the introduction of a fancy new paid-for subscription service – is now Nintendo's most 'online' piece of hardware. Even so, the company has stumbled a little along the way; not only was Switch Online embarrassingly late – the console has been available for over a year, lest we forget – but the company has fumbled some key points, one of the most egregious being the confusion over the deletion of cloud saves once your sub expires.
However, Nintendo has shown that it can learn from these mistakes and has taken steps to clarify the cloud save deletion issue. We should, perhaps, expect further changes as the service matures over the next few years, because it's vital to remember that in launching Switch Online, Nintendo is making a significant transition as a company – perhaps the biggest transition it has seen in decades.
"Converting from being a pure console and game development company to one that runs an online service is generally a difficult transition to make," says Brian Johnson, CEO and Co-founder of DivvyCloud, a company which delivers comprehensive policy-driven security, compliance and governance for cloud infrastructure. "Being an online services platform is critical to the success of any console. Not only is it important because of the user experience, but it also changes the business’ revenue model. Moving to a recurring revenue model will provide Nintendo with the ongoing revenue it will need to continue to upgrade the Nintendo Switch."
Johnson used to work at Electronic Arts, and is something of an authority when it comes to this kind of thing. During his seven years at EA, he developed, managed and operated the infrastructure that ran some of the world’s largest online games and led the first migration of a major online game to Amazon Web Services. He also broke new ground by architecting the complex hybrid cloud environments that supported EA’s massive, distributed global computing requirements.
As someone who has been there, done that, and effectively written the rulebook on this kind of technology, Johnson has watched Nintendo's growing pains with interest. On the topic of cloud saves – a bone of contention with Switch owners since launch – he feels that the company has done the right thing by locking them away behind a subscription. "It would be very costly for the console companies to provide this feature for free," he explains. "Also, if we want the console market to continue to innovate, they need a revenue stream that is dependable and predictable."
Nintendo has used the allure of free 'classic' games as a way of driving interest in the service, which – it should be noted – is cheaper than that of its rivals. Despite the difference in price, there have been complaints (from us as well as other outlets) that the selection of free titles is uninspiring, and even the most hardcore NES fan will admit that the painful drip-feed of three games a month is hardly going to have people rushing to take out a sub. "Nintendo has an opportunity to drive consumption via its legacy games," Johnson points out, and he acknowledges that the power of nostalgia can make up for the lack of excitement, in many cases. "While these games are not super exciting, they hold a special place in the heart of many gamers." That appeal – combined with the promise of online play – will no doubt ensure that diehard fans sign up, but in the fullness of time, more value will need to be added to make the platform 'sticky'.
He also sees Nintendo's decision to backtrack on deleting cloud save data as a predictable consequence of this learning process; as we've already touched upon, this is a seismic change for the industry veteran. "One of the most difficult changes a company can make is converting from being a pure 'on the shelf' product to an online services company," Johnson says. "Transitions like these are very culturally challenging for a company. Companies like Nintendo are used to developing in a vacuum, in fear that allowing public input will lead to product secrets being leaked. Ultimately this means that the product hits the shelves with very little customer input, and once the product is built, there is no going back." This is, of course, the opposite of running an online 'service' which is constantly subject to user feedback and can adapt and change more readily than a tangible, boxed product.
We're almost certain to see other games added to the roster as time goes on, and a service which offers SNES, N64 and even GameCube titles for free each month is going to be a lot more enticing than what we currently have. But as Johnson repeatedly points out, it's vital to remember that there's a learning curve here. Unlike Sony and Microsoft – the latter of whom, we should remember, launched its innovative online subscription service without the promise of any free software – Nintendo is trying all of this out for the first time. The choice to backtrack on the cloud save issue proves that the company is listening to its customers, so perhaps we should give Nintendo a little time to fine-tune the experience before we pass too harsh a judgement.
"For a product company like Nintendo, learning when and how to react is not a natural skill," concludes Johnson. "It is one that will have to be learned over time."
Comments 197
Nintendolife lights the fuse, sits back and waits....
If we get 64 and GameCube games and Super Nintendo as part of the service, it will officially be the best thing ever.
Probably won't happen soon though.
I feel like I'm paying for my own internet, since the online is p2p. That's why the low price point is invalid. Dedicated servers, party chat and in system voice chat and it will start to make sense.
The cloud saves thing isn't true. My only gripes with it now are no voice chat and too slow a release/only nes games. Should be 3 a week with one special edition.
no it cant learn it hasnt learned anything from wii wii u etc etc. Its not exactly rocket science just look at Sony MS PC or any other bloody platform in 2018
I really don't have a problem with the online service, and it can only get better from here.
The 3DS and Wii U eShops didn't have amazing starts either and they turned out to be pretty good, hopefully the same happens with Switch Online
Dear, Nintendo.
Just make it so Basic.
The different ways of Nintendo Switch with other Nintendo machines were too radical.
There isn't anything embarrassing about their online. It's early days. We have years of tinkering and experimenting to look forward to. Like anything they do. Moments of WTH? followed by moments of pure genius.
Stopped reading after the false claim that Nintendo "promptly" deletes your Cloud Saves after your subscription expires. Your Clouds Saves are safe for 6 months after your subscription expires. 6 months doesn't seem very prompt to me. I'd have assumed Nintendo Life would get their facts straight.
Nintendo could learn, but will they? Sadly I am not all that optimistic.
"But It Can Learn From Its Mistakes"
Nintendo: No we shell not, our mistakes are so unique and different
@geox30 deffo we need ingame messaging and voice ... I feel I’m paying just because I like my switch ... it’s like I’m using it as I would to tip a waiter .... I don’t use the service just feel obliged to pay
I can't really judge their online fully until I see how Smash works.
Nothing wrong with the service IMO. The features the competition has are all "nice to have" things, not necessities, and Nintendo's service is much cheaper than the alternatives. The same people whining about how few features Nintendo Switch Online has would be whining about the high price point if Nintendo's service was comparable to Sony's.
I think the real problem is with how the service was rolled out. People are not going to be happy about a subscription fee being added to something that used to be free, even if it is necessary to offset rising development costs (without increasing the price of the game or relying on predatory schemes like microtransactions). There isn't much of a difference between Nintendo Switch Online and their previous online services (seriously, there was nothing wrong with the Wii and Wii U-era online play. It got the job done). Yet they added the subscription fee without doing anything to soften the blow. Common sense would be to launch a new E ticket game, or at least a lot of good DLC to existing multiplayer games like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon 2, to entice people to buy a subscription. Yet the only thing they did was release a few NES titles, most of which are already easily available (3DS Ambassador Program, NES Classic Edition, any of the Virtual Consoles). That doesn't cut it.
@Anguspuss yeah because the PSN in 2018 is exactly as it was when it first launched. Oh wait, it wasn't
To be honest i don't think Nintendo is too bothered about making an online environment as healthy as say Sony or Microsoft... Aside from not actually knowing how, numerous high ranking members in Nintendo has expressed their disdain for online, seeing the internet as a very western invention... Japan as a nation has never really embraced anything not made in Japan.
This isn't to say western ideas don't get embraced but particularly with the older generation, this is hardly the norm.
Even when they have internet most Japanese connect to private local VPN servers....
Anyway my point is that Nintendo do 90% of their R&D in Japan, cater mainly to that market and online multiplayer gaming just isn't the fad in that market.
They enjoy local multiplayer gaming much more... Street pass hot spots in half the streets in Tokyo.
Conclusion: dont expect strong online from Nintendo. Ever. Improved? Sure.... But it will be nowhere near as good as Sony or Microsoft.
(Sony does most their R&D globally now).
"It can be very costly to provide these features for free". Yeah, no ****.
That's why we buy your games, to help pay for the online inferstructure. I pay for your consoles, pay for your games and pay for my internet. Is that not enough? Is it entitlement to want access to all of the features when I buy the game?
Imagine you bought a Blu-ray movie and the deleted scenes we're hid away online and couldn't be accessed without a ransom payment. It's time we put our foot down. No other industry could get away with what the games Industry is doing.
VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET.
@Luke937 Yeah, fat chance of that happening. Where are reports of people not buying this stuff? That's because they support the companies they love. I happen to support Nintendo and other companies and their online services.
The biggest issue is that the service does a lot of good things, just in a very lackluster way.
Cloud saves? Great! But some of the games that need them most aren't even compatible.
Classic games via a netflix-style service? Awesome! But only with 20 mediocre-to-good NES games, with a mere 3 games added per month.
Voice chat? Fantastic! But it has to be done through an intensely mediocre app.
If Nintendo could take the existing features in NSO and flesh them out to make them more appealing--such as more classic games beyond the NES (give us SNES games dammit!) and less restrictions on cloud saving--then we'd have a great service on our hands. Problem is that it's Nintendo we're talking about here, and even if they wanted to improve this service they'd likely do it in the slowest, most reluctant way possible. That's if they even bother to listen to the fan outcry.
Eh, I think the service can be improved but at the same time I'm not going to get too mad when it's as cheap as it is. I'm sure features will be added and we'll start seeing SNES+ games in a few months.
It’s going to be interesting to see how it develops. Nintendo’s history with Online isn’t encouraging TBH. My own suspicion is they have no interest in developing his much and simply want an extra revenue stream in return for offering as little and doing as little work as possible. But we’ll see.
However I’ll be watching from the sidelines as I’m not subscribing to what they offer now. I’d happily pay similar to the competition for a similar service, but can’t see any value-to me personally-in Nintendo’s offering at all.
Oh by the way, there's a pretty credible rumor going around that Smash is going to have its own servers. This is really exciting to me, and as a big Smash player, if this is true it'll more than make up for the online service just being passable.
@AZBros Literally the next paragraph notes that the company has since changed its stance on the cloud save issue. Maybe you should have kept reading?
"Nintendo are used to developing in a vacuum, in fear that allowing public input will lead to product secrets being leaked. Ultimately this means that the product hits the shelves with very little customer input, and once the product is built, there is no going back."
This right here is Nintendo in a nutshell. Their refusal to actually listen to any sort of public feedback and quickly implement changes is what has been holding the company back. SMH
@Alantor28 I haven't bought it yet. Gaming is an entertainment medium. You don't need NSO to survive. If you complain about NSO but buy it anyway you're not helping, you're part of the problem.
If you give companies like Nintendo financial incentives to be anti-consumer, they are going to continue to ignore consumer feedback. Money talks.
@Luke937 No, maybe you're part of the problem. All I see is imaginary people thinking the way you do.
Why don't you gather followers and try to start up a revolution to oppose the things the game industry is doing that you hate?
Oh, that's right. You just can't do it because all you and those who don't like what the game industry is doing are hiding behind their monitors and saying words so they can get attention. Yeah, you defintely are a troll.
If you get a kick out of adults shedding tears on the internet, NSO has been a godsend. It’s a win/win situation really. If you enjoy the service, you’re in now and it only gets more valuable as games release. If you don’t enjoy the service, you can use it to justify your piracy. Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s a dead horse out front and I’m about to beat the daylights out of it.
My response to this piece is simple: Your opinion of failure and missteps does not seemed to be informed by actual sales numbers...which you do not possess.
As Nintendo sets the metrics for success here, why not...you know, do journalism and ask them what their success metrics are and if they have achieved them?
For all I know, or you, Nintendo has made millions and millions off of this.
@Damo But that's not what happened, Damo. The NSO website stated that cloud saves wouldn't be accessible outside a subscription. Then everyone (including NL) reported it as "immediate deletion". A week later, and after service launch, an outlet finally asked Nintendo what it meant specifically. That is where the 180 days comes from, yet the NSO website text remained the same. It remained the same because it was never incorrect.
That's not the company changing their mind. That's people assuming, reacting, then ignoring the fact an assumption was made. Could it have been clarified further than "you can't use them while you're not subbed"? Sure. But nothing was actually changed.
And until it learns from said mistakes, I refuse to pay for it.
@KingdomHeartsFan Just like people. They should be born perfect
@Alantor28 I am imaginary? If all you see is people who "think like I do" maybe we're not as fake as you think.
I have a Switch along with BOtW, Splatoon 2, Super Mario Odyssey, MK8 Deluxe and I have Smash Ultimate pre-ordered. I am a real person and unlike you and other NintenDrones, capable of critical thought.
It’s cheap and that’s the service you get.
@Luke937 Are you defining "capable of critical thought" as "agreeing with me" here?
@Damo He didn't say that it was. In fact he said that someone asked, and that is how that was learned?
@MrKai No I'm defining critical thought as not going out of your way at every opportunity to lick a large corporation's boot. If you like NSO, fine but don't pretend like Nintendo is doing paid online for the consumers. They're doing it for their investors.
@Damo Yes, I know.
-The Nintendo site always said "can't be kept outside a sub".
-Everyone assumed Nintendo deletes it when sub ends.
-A week later, IGN asked Nintendo when saves are deleted. Nintendo saves 180 days after a sub end date
-The Nintendo site doesn't change words
-Everyone assumes Nintendo changed their mind
EDIT: I'm just pointing out that there wasn't an actual back-pedal or reversal on Nintendo's behalf in this instance. People read a statement, assumed it meant something more, then waited a week to ask for clarification on their assumption. The assumption that was never even stated by Nintendo. Or am I just on pills, here?
I signed up for it last week. I’ve had absolutely nothing but connection errors in Splatoon since. I had the occasional error before, but it seems significantly worse now.
Also, we at least need SNES games and they should hurry it up instead of 3 games a month. They’ve had years to prepare for this.
@Luke937 Right. So, clearly, they are going to maximize the service toward that end, their investor's benefit, however that manifests itself.
With a vocal base of people that made it clear from Day Zero that the mere concept of paying in the first place was anathema to them, heheh, how, lol, exactly does one think they would throw a ton of R&D into it without some metrics to justify more expensive initiatives?
No, Nintendo is not listening to consumers. Or else there would be native voicechat and the terrible app would have been nuked.
I refuse to pay for a service that has made no improvements since it was offered for free. And I especially refuse to pay for a service that allows me to backup my saves, which should be available for free locally, period.
Maybe I'd pay for the free games (its the only reason I pay for PS+ after all), but I do not want NES or SNES games.
Nintendo could have just hired people who already have done this. Instead, they need to do it their own, ridiculous way
@MrKai Don't bother with him. He wants attention and he's spewing things out of his behind.
Oh, they did more than stumble with it.
They outright half-assed it and shovelled excuses and pathetic lies and forced anti-consumerism to people like me who love playing Splatoon 2. Until they add a better anti-cheat (by using BattleEye!), and adding dedicated servers, as well as cloud saves, to Splatoon 2, I ain't giving them a damn thing because I owe them nothin' in terms of online.
Also? Ditch the voice chat from your app entirely and just use Discord, Nintendo. It's what everyone's using nowadays anyways, stop trying to compete with a garbage voice chat and implement Discord!
@OctoInk20 Watch your language. You can't swear or cuss on a site like this. You have to obey the rules of no swearing and cussing.
@HobbitGamer I've edited to clarify, but don't you find it a little strange that Nintendo forgot to include the 180 point - a pretty huge point, too - in its official FAQ? We approached for comment around the same time and got no response, BTW.
@Mando44646 ..et al – do you have any data to support the position that millions and millions of Nintendo's customers are unhappy with what they are doing?
More importantly...do you actually believe that if Nintendo had such data, they would ignore it?
There is a frustrating, but well-understood concept in social science wherein people that are "satisfied" with a thing are more prevalent than people who are not and complain loudly, and people who are ecstatic and sing praises loudly.
Nintendo does constant direct outreach to their customers via feedback requests, and has an Internet-connected machine whos metrics they can, and do track.
Do you think it is possible, possible they might have a bit more info than others do, across the board, about this?
@Alantor28 Noted. Will be 'eyes on, eyes up'
I'd be completely understanding of this if it wasn't for these simple facts;
1) This isn't Nintendo's first online console. They've had 2 home consoles and 1 (proper) handheld console that were fully online.
2) There has been 6 years of Nintendo running the 'Nintendo Network', and 6 years of players giving feedback for that.
3) There are no less than 3 competitors that run online services. Services that are free, services that have been running for nearly 16 years, services that have launched as free, against long running competitors, switched to a premium service and is well received. Nintendo ignored everything these 3 have done right.
Nintendo weren't developing this brand new thing in a vacuum and just missed the mark because they couldn't have known what the consumer wanted without their input. Because they had tons of examples already out there. Nintendo messed up because they thought they could half-arse it and get away with because they are Nintendo and the service was cheap.
@Damo Did anyone ever check or read any terms or other things provided?
There is simply no evidence that this was a "turnaround" at all...this was unsubstantiated and kind of reads like a "well...I feel better thinking our complaint made a difference that might not have actually existed in the first place" thing to me /shrug
@Damo Oh it’s certainly a misstep in the PR department to not fully talk about that feature. It only needed to have a spot for one more question on the FAQ. “How long so I have to keep my cloud files intact”, for example. It would have saved them some negative light in today’s new cycle pace.
Thanks for listening to me!! Ya’ll rock.
Solomon's Key and Dodgeball are both pretty fun and are games I have never played before. I hope we get more lesser known games like these.
@MrKai well at the end of the month I'm sure they will have figures as to the amount of online adopters they have already...and yep there is zero proof that the grace period was a turnaround due to a mass revolt.
For £17 a year (or free if I use my Gold Points) I get online play, free games and discounts on stuff.
For £60 a year on PS4/Xbox you get the same, albeit with a larger choice since they’ve existed longer.
I don’t get why people are so raging...
@Richnj Well...heh, as both a subscriber to gold and psn, the reality is the services do have feature parity, but Nintendo has an utter lack of depth.
Seriously. People are complaining about implementation details, and depth essentially, but they in fact do the same things.
If anyone thinks that a public company is going to add that depth in a hostile environment and absorb the cost...I wish them the best of luck with that
Remove the need for the phone app and that's all I need. Everything else is gravy, at 20 bucks a year.
@WiltonRoots At the end of the day, I get that some people are unhappy.
I also do not believe for one minute that if Nintendo ticked off every box on these people's punchlist in the next 90 days and charged what Sony and MS does for that level of product they'd pay a dime
..and I am willing to bet Nintendo doesn't either, heheh.
@alasdair91 You don't see a difference between cloud saves for ALL games & cloud saves for SOME games? Or voice chat through the console & voice chat through an app? Or dedicated servers for multiplayer & P2P multiplayer? Or discounts on full price, retail games & discounts on $10 or less Indie games?
Me thinks you need some glasses bucko.
@alasdair91 On system voice chat. Cross game chat. Proper friend system. Clubs/communities. Community feeds. Dedicated servers. Optional, feature rich app (rather than very feature light and required). Games released in the last few years (vs 25+ years old games). Cloud saves for all games.
There is a huge difference in the depth of the services provided. People expected less, but they at least expected basics, and they didn't get that.
Get rid of the phone App... hard to sell something to people when they need to get an App with 2.5 stars in the AppStore.
And Make the "basic services" Universal out of the box. The Switch is back to the age where you have no idea what "online" looks like from one game to the next.
@Richnj I wholeheartedly disagree here. They did, in fact, get the basics:
Free games, cloud saves, discounts, online, voice chat, exclusives.
These things have all been provided, and if you look at them as they are, consider the cloud saves restrictions a split, as I see merit in all sides of the discussion there, look at nintendo's asking price, divide by 12.
"And there you go."
It isn't a premium service, and they aren't asking a premium price for it.
@MrKai
“There is simply no evidence that this was a "turnaround" at all”
So you’re arguing that Nintendo take all the info from their “constant direct outreach to their customers via feedback requests, and....Internet-connected machine whos metrics they can, and do track.” and throw it in the bin. Not encouraging for those who think this service will improve.
@alasdair91
You don’t get why people are raging because you’ve made a facile, superficial comparison that’s utterly pointless and provides no info.
@electrolite77 No, I am SAYING that they have more info and no one complaining seems to want to consider that they are a minority of the customer base
@MrKai Because people like companies who are pro-consumer. NSO is a PR Disaster. Look at the YouTube Dislikes.
Look at the videos coming out that are getting thousands of views bashing the service. Nintendo will be fine if they give all of this away for free.
They just don't want to leave money on the table.
@electrolite77 OK let's be more direct: If Nintendo offered a PSN/Xbox-Gold level experience, would you be willing to pay that price, as a Nintendo customer?
@Luke937 This is confirmation bias. You realize this, no?
i Haven’t even bothered with it yet. I just don’t care. 😕 give me something better. I like free internet.
@Luke937 Too bad, life doesn't go the way you want. Like I said, if you don't like what's happening to gaming, then gather up followers to start up a revolution against the so called evil greedy companies, that is if you don't hide behind your monitor all the time instead of saying stuff like that. Action speaks louder than words, and so far, you and those so called rational thinking people who are against this online service are using words instead of action.
My expectations for improvements are low. If there are improvements, then that will be great. But looking at how they've handled MyNintendo, I can't say that I'm all that confident at this point.
@Alantor28 No, I believe they have, in fact, "voted with their wallets" presumably.
The problem I think for them is, it clearly doesn't seem to matter/make a difference. The wheel seems to still be turning in the direction it was planned to go in, somewhere in Japan, long before the outrage, years ago
@Sakura THIS...lol. Yeah MyNintendo is a curious thing. I wonder how successful it is?
@Alantor28 People have been speaking out against this for ages. Jim Sterling, ReviewTechUSA and Yong Yea among others. Regardless of what you think of certain individuals this is not a new problem. Revolution? Do you want me to storm their headquarters? There is only one solution to this and that's voting with your wallet.
@MrKai look I'll be honest @Luke937 has a valid point.
Let me break this down for you.
30m people subscribe to Sony PSN+... Thats 30 million × £45 or $60 dollars....
Let me put that in perspective for you... Thats like every year Sony releasing a game that sells 30~ million units. Especially considering the price is the same as a game.
You actually think investors at Nintendo didn't see that and wanted a piece?
Gonna be honest here but you have to be delusional to not believe Nintendo's investors pushed for this... Totally delusional.
@MrKai Yeah. So those who hate the services and the way Nintendo and other gaming companies are doing tried to stand up against them because they think they are doing it for the consumers and gamers everywhere, but in the end, they are full of themselves and fighting a losing battle.
@Luke937 Have you considered already that people have...in the other direction?
@Luke937 ReviewTechUSA... Laughs harder than I usually do. Yeah, you lose credbility by saying ReviewTechUSA because they are big fat liars.
Value is subjective. Personally, I think NSO's value is pretty much on point. Its features are not a competitive offering compared to services on other platforms, however with the family plan I paid less than $5 per year for it. For me, the NES games alone are worth that price. I just hope they roll Pokemon Bank into NSO in the future.
Would I be willing to pay more for a more robust service? Probably. But that doesn't mean that what exists now is not good value for the price they're charging.
I might subscribe in 5 years time when it's (hopefully) an appealing offering...
@MrKai
You’re arguing against the narrative that Nintendo changed part of the service in response to consumer feedback. I have no idea why as that’s pretty complimentary to them especially at this stage and with so many defenders of NSO saying they’ll improve it.
They could learn from their mistakes but they very rarely do! How many times have people asked for a digital store where you buy a game and own it forever? It’s 2018 and we can’t have party chat in games! It’s quite ridiculous tbh.
Yes bit Nintendo can have no excuses no matter how much they are "learning", the competing services have existed for years so there can be no excuses really.
@Razer Not at all delusional, because I am not only looking at the upside, for you.
Let me break this down for you:
The numbers you provided are not fixed costs. To invest in an online platform for a user base that DOES NOT WANT TO PAY FOR ONE is a business risk without the data to support it in the ecosystem you are talking about.
So, I will ask YOU: IF Nintendo offered a $60/yr service with feature-parity tuned to their particular platform's strength's...would you pay that price?
@electrolite77 Yes I am because no one as actually showed that it wasn't always 180 days after end of service. /shrug
Imagine Sony bringing out the ps5 and having no games from the ps store carry over! They just start again releasing ps1 games slowly 😂 it’s moronic
@MrKai basics on other platforms include a proper friend system, on system chat.
Just compare what Nintendo did to how Sony did it. Sony built up their poor online service, built up their account and friend systems etc. They built up the service to the point where gamers saw the value in paying for online. Nintendo added in cloud saves and discounts and everything else is stayed sub par.
It was an underwhelming launch for a service, and for anyone that owns any other platform, NSO just doesn't hold much appeal in comparison, other than being cheap, which isn't a big deal because over the course of a year, the other services are still cheap anyway.
@MrKai Yes but maybe they only bought it because it put online multiplayer behind a paywall and not because they wanted to?
@MrKai
“If Nintendo offered a PSN/Xbox-Gold level experience, would you be willing to pay that price, as a Nintendo customer?”
Yes, straight away. That’s been my issue all along.
They’ve had years of experience, they have plenty of competing services to copy from, they have hundreds of millions of pounds in the bank, they have an incomparable library of legacy content, they have every indie developer in Christendom releasing games on their system and desperate for attention. They had a completely blank slate and the best they’ve come up with a service people defend with ‘well its cheap’. I’d pay for something better as I personally can’t see any value in it as it stands.
@Richnj I pay for all three...and one of my consoles hasn't been turned on at all in months.
I submit that Nintendo's core goal/"KPI" here was price. I also believe if other people looked at the entire thing this way.."What is the maximum value we can offer at this price?" and tell us not only what they would, but how they would at that price target.
@Alantor28 I never said these people were the best thing ever. Just that their large subscriber counts prove people do care about these things. But that doesn't matter, Big Cheese needs his $200
@Luke937 Yeah, yeah. Like I said, action speaks louder than words. And your people vote with their wallets quote is just words.
@electrolite77 £50 a year for psn+ gets you 48+ current gen games, plus the previously mentioned all round improvements to all areas of the service.
Thats £4 a month for 4 current gen games... Etc etc.
I'd pay that on Switch (as well as xbox and PS) in a heartbeat.
They wont
@electrolite77 OK! See, this is rational
Now, consider what I said above just now: what if the goal was to hit a price goal that was below that, for various reasons, too many to throw on the table here, but let's assume that conversation was had.
For the price...what would you do, without adding too much cost on the production side to push that price up?
Eh?
can it really?
@Alantor28 Do you have the concrete numbers of how many people signed up?
Do have the numbers of how many people are pleased with the service? I never said I was the majority opinion just that I'm not alone in my distaste for the service.
Edit: I didn't say everyone voted with their wallets. That's precisely the problem, not enough people do.
@MrKai I think so too, but for the goal of "keeping the price low" to mean anything, then there would have had to have been the argument of "xbl and psn+ cost too much" which I never saw personally, and I definitely never believed.
So for me, cutting all these features in the name of price is a loss rather than a gain.
Has nintendolife turned into destructoid?
@Luke937 No, but I know you're full of it and just spewing words just to crave attention. So yeah, keep hiding behind your monitor and continue to spew moronic words to crave attention.
@Alantor28 Isn't that what you're doing? You replied to every one of my comments.
Isn't that what comment sections are for, to give feedback and have a discussion?
@Luke937 Nope, I'm being rational. You on the other are just spewing words and not taking action. So yeah, keep thinking you are fighting for gamers and consumers.
@MrKai
I would have tiered it. Have something priced like they do now but with the basics. No NES games but match the competition in terms of voice chat, party chat, messaging etc. Universal cloud saves!
Then a tier priced similarly to Xbox/PSN that offers rentals of a selection of games across Nintendo’s history (some with a Online play....oh and Online play with proper matchmaking, not just friends) and monthly indie games. Yes it would cost more to set up but at $720 a year rather than $240 thats natural.
If I could figure it how to get punters to pay 3X more than currently with minimal increase in production costs I’d be nursing a hangover from sake and karaoke last night with Furokawa and Takahashi....
@Richnj Well, I don't want to speak for Nintendo. My own experience in the industry tells me that Nintendo isn't, and hasn't been surprised by much of this, and that before they spent the money building this, they spent the money figuring out what the market looked like for it
@Alantor28 Stop acting like a child. All you do is attack other people who disagree with you while trying to act like a Mod. You report people for breaking rules, but then call other people's words "moronic", which is breaking the rules. I only see you comment to attack others. Why are you here?
@DanPan16 I know it was wrong of me to say moronic, but I wasn't attacking other people. And I wasn't acting like a Mod. If I were a mod, I would keep the comment sections clean, but I would let the power go to my head. So I would rather not be a mod. Thick headed people like Luke are unreasonable and tried to think they are in the right.
Uh huh...You do know Nintendo has done online, and better, before, right? With the 3DS, Wii U and arguably the Wii.
Even if they didn't though, they've had more than enough time to see what Mircosoft and Sony have been doing with their online services and learn from them.
Nintendo COULD learn from its mistakes, but there shouldn't have been these types of mistakes to begin with.
@Alantor28 You're being rational? I never said I was going to be the one to stop it. I said if people want change they should vote with their wallets. That is not a new idea.
@Razer is right it's a tax. @MrKai The upside to paid online is lessened because we have little say how or if that money gets spent, just like taxes IRL.
@Luke937 Well, let's drop this, shall we? It was wrong of me to attack you like that. And as the saying goes, to each their own.
@Alantor28 Agreed
Another Naf article, which misses the point.
Voice chat app is appauling.
NES catalog is a joke
Bonus offers that don't exsist, along with Nintendo club offers which only support Wii u and 3ds
I read the comments and some talk about the discounts. Where are the discounts. Am I missing something.
@Kalmaro I'm with you on the supermintendo. If we get that all is forgiven. A Nintendo and mint combo has to be good
Alternatively they can give us Metroid Prime Trilogy HD and the service will instantly be worth it.
I don't feel any entitlement to snes, n64, and gamecube games for free. Just give us some way of playing them. If you don't want to call it virtual console then just sell the damn things normally like Hamster or ACA
@KingdomHeartsFan I know, but I wanted to get wrapped up in everyone's hyperboly, just to try it. Forgive me!
@MrKai I'm not sure what you think Nintendo have done here that has cost them money and how this online service isn't just pure profit.
You seem to think them adding cloud saves and host NES ports actually cost them that much money?
All they did was put up a pay wall and added a few things here and there that basically cost them nothing and is covered by the ridiculous profit they make from their hugely successful first party exclusive games.
They had no issue losing all that money during the Wii Us time while providing these services for free...
Again if you genuinely believe the investors did not push for this then its bordering on delusional.
Also to answer your question yes I'd gladly pay more money for a better service.
I haven't played a game online in weeks on the Switch and to be honest I'm not missing anything.
The switch has pretty much been dead to me since the online sub started. It just feels a bit dirty to me now, which is a massive shame as I loved it before, but now it feels tainted in a way that Nintendo have never been to me before. Mega Man 11 arrived today so I'm sure I'll get into that, but being reminded that I don't have the online sub regularly by games is annoying.
I'd really like to know the sign up ratios, is it possible to find out the percentage of people who signed up for the service? I was buying a game nearly every other week before, now Mega Man 11 is the first game in nearly two months. I wonder if other regular customers similar to me have slowed down with purchases as well.
@TheFongz For me, it's not that I feel like I deserve more games. I just don't see how they are justifying things with the current offering.
If they through in more games from previous consoles, I'd feel better.
@Razer Do you do Software Engineering and Architecture for a living? Do you have...any remote idea how much "putting up a pay wall and throwing a few thing here and there"...actually costs (let alone you trivializing it via that description).
AGAAAIIIN...I get people are "upset"...however I have seen little to indicate that this user base would support a "full on" service, tho I do see some merit in a "tiered" approach as @electrolite77 suggested, for example.
And look. I am getting a bit tired of you casting aspersions at my "mental state" because I do not agree with you. I am not delusional in any way.
Not surprised at all
With Switch 2, or whatever it will be named, they'll say they learned from mistakes. Same old story. Well, at least they have room for improvement, they can't get worse than this, can they?
@gortsi yes and the wii had online as well as did wii u and 3ds your point is.
@MrKai what makes you think i don't know about software engineering and architecture... Albeit not within the gaming Industry but rather telecoms and IT security.
I can assure you the premise is the same. I can also assure you that many changes made to our services and prices added on to the consumer is 90% pushed through by our investors.
Recently we added a feature to our platform that allows conference calling on up to 10 seats in any one time for large scale conference calls... The feature activation is a flip of the switch for us... Our programmers took half a day to code it into our system and 3 days to bring to market.
We charge users £5 a month for the feature... For more than 100k users... Do the math...
Now about your mental state 😂😂
@Anguspuss so you played for free for 14 years, if you owned any of these that is. The point is, services change and improve over time. If you had a console you'd know that
"Also, if we want the console market to continue to innovate, they need a revenue stream that is dependable and predictable."
Or, you know, they could just make great games...
I, for one, am not interested in renting retro games, which service can literally end at any point where I would just stand there without any retro games.
Thanks but no thanks.
I really hope Nintendo Online will be a failure.
If they can't learn what makes a service a service, they don't deserve the money for it.
Nintendo has always been thrifty and greedy (just look at mynintendo rewards system and stuff). Its not like they couldnt have done better - they didnt want to. There is a difference between being a fan of nintendo games and nintendo as a business company - the latter is one of the worst companies out there in regard to consumer friendliness imo.
@Razer I asked if you did, not asserted that you didn't. Now that we've established that you've got some 'tech industry" experience, and that you do not have specific domain experience around paying for software development and engineering, I have a better idea of where your cost factoring position is based. In my job, I have to pay for software engineers and such, so my perspective might be a bit more nuanced, that's all.
As for your continued aspersions about my "mental state"...well, your retort here kind of shows it's more about insults and one-upmanship to you than actually, you know, measured, rational, discourse, so I'll let you find a more...rage-y...person to engage on that.
@SuperEndriu No one will get a lot of pushback from me about "MyNintendo".
I was super excited for the full launch of Nintendo Switch Online. I'm rarely disappointed by things Nintendo does, but I ended up being disappointed by NSO. The feature I was looking forward to most (inviting players to games) doesn't work in any of the games I own other than Splatoon 2. I'm told it works in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, but I don't have it to test it out myself. I know it doesn't work in ARMS, Nintendo Entertainment System: Nintendo Switch Online, or Mario Tennis Aces. I can never get a game together if I can't invite my friends to them. I just have to hope they happen to be checking the lobbies for that specific game. I hope Pokemon and Smash have invitations, and I hope they update it to be included it more games in the future.
Anybody who work or have worked at EA is an authority in using online as an excuse to scam consumers.
Nintendo online paywall not service
I have always loved Nintendo games, but honestly I never felt the need for all their "hardware innovations". I love Wii and I couldn't care less about the motion controls. I have always hated the dual screen system. If Nintendo just focused only in making great games and nothing else they would have saved a lot of money (and also avoided risks and failures like Virtual boy and Wii U) so now they wouldn't need to scam consumers with that offensive subscription. But they wasted so much money in things that many people really never cared about (people love the DS and 3DS for the incredible amount of games they have, not because of the stupid double screen system) and now they probably can't do anything else than being mean and unfair to their customers.
They did many great games but also many terriblew mistakes, now they have to pay the price and they want us to pay that price in their place.
They can go "entertain" themselves as far as I'm concerned.
When I get a Switch, will I subscribe to the online? Not at first. I want to give it a little more time to mature, plus the main reason that I'd use it - online backups - wouldn't be very important at first. I'm not much of an online gamer and really don't see what's being charged for here (when considering online alone) as a lot of Ninty's infrastructure relies on P2P. NES games are a nice bonus, but I'd rather them add more platforms into the mix. I'm not even against them charging for cloud saves; what irritates me here is that there are no backup alternatives like with other platforms.
For those who do have the Switch online service, do NES saves count for the cloud backups?
@Tyranexx Yep, NES save data supports cloud backup
@Kalmaro I totally agree with you there. I can afford it but I'm not subscribing for "a bunch of NES games, and the promise of a few more". On the other hand I'm not interested in the actual online gaming side of it so to me the truly sad thing here is that this is all we're going to get regarding retro Nintendo, for a long time into the future.
I do not have a problem with it.
People are so lenient with Nintendo. Everytime Nintendo 'stumbles' people tell us that they will hopefully learn from it but they never do and then the cycle repeats.
Interestingly, people believe that Nintendo 'stumbles' instead of doing what they do on purpose except when Nintendo does something they agree with and then they talk about how Nintendo is a successful business and how they know how to run a business well. Which is it?
@LuckyLand be nicer.
@Alantor28 stop looking for fights, they’re entitled to their opinion and we can’t force them to like everything nintendo does. Your behavior is far more disruptive.
@Yosheel I understand. Sorry for the trouble.
@Mr_Pepperami Well said.
@Varubajia You're right, it was wrong of me to say that. So next time, I will watch what I say.
They can't and won't learn anything as long as people pay for it. The people who go through all these hoops to justify the cost, even if it is not a lot of money, don't seem to realize that if hardly anyone paid for this terrible service, Nintendo would back pedal real quick.
Nintendo has always been painfully behind (like 15 years) when it comes to online functionality.
Like many people, I have no interest in playing retro titles. They get old after just a few minutes.
I’d already resigned myself to paying 20 bucks a year for cloud saves. I’ll still take that over having no way to back up save data. The fact that it was our reality for over a year is astonishing.
Would I like to see monthly freebies, an actual online network service, voice chat, or a trophy/achievement system? Absolutely. But this is Nintendo. When it comes to industry standards they are, and have always been, completely out-of-touch.
@Alantor28 Look I know we can all get a bit worked up about the things we enjoy but wishing they die because they don't agree with you is a bit extreme.
@Varubajia You're right. I can get pushed over the edge because I have a nasty temper I am trying to overcome. I can overcome it in real life, but the internet, I'm working on it to keep calm and control my emotions.
@Razer I like your point. I'm a Nintendo fan because they are so Japanese and different. So well said. I don't want them to become another Sony or Microsoft.
It's not like they have a decade's worth of competitor history to tell them what they shouldn't be doing, RIGHT?!
Nintendo still doesn't seem to be learning at all.
The online service is so abysmal that it's not even worth $20.
@LuckyLand
Dual Screen from NDS & 3DS is look pretty.
Playing games with Dual Screen is one of Best thing from Nintendo.
Beside, 3DS & NDS have the Best design of game boxes in my opinion.
Wow did the trolls come out or what. I see alot of naysayers and were probably the very same one that said the Switch sales would hit the trash heap. Guess what it went the other directions and ooos that just cooks your gander. For the price they offer consider it good. Their innovative Switch has by far out stripped all those AAA graphics with a return to gaming fun. Trying to go cheap then don't buy the Online it's plain and simple but every companies that start out Online Services isn't a success overnight if that was the case then why aren't you complaining how MS and Sony online where when they came out. No it's just poor fanboys have nothing else to offer. If so let's see you do better but I know they will just complain is all.
I can appreciate that this service is so cheap - only $45 a year split between me and 2 others. The family plan thing is really nice too. Not counting the NES games which are of no interest to me, that leaves the cloud saves, the voice chat app and the ability to play online, correct?
Cloud saves: fine, good, I'm not bothered with it. Voice chat app: I can't even fathom their decision to go with this, the one time I tried this, the sound quality was terrible, and people were getting disconnected randomly. For gods sake there are any number of free ways to talk to people on your PHONE (thats the keyword there) with better stability and without it sounding like your all using some kind of toaster mic. Honestly this app makes no sense to me whatsoever. And then finally we get to the online play, which is the main reason I (and I would assume most others) paid for this. Now this is really mostly a per game sort of thing, but at least when I've played with friends online in mario party, there have been multiple instances of severe lag and disconnects for everyone involved. Unacceptable.
So with all this in mind, I just really hope this service improves over time.
They haven't learn from a majority of their past mistakes, why start now? :v
Are you guys still whining about this? It's by no means great, but it's also by no means a big deal. It's dirt cheap and works fine. It's not been the end of the world for online games on Switch like the naysayers were saying. I have no issue getting online with Splatoon 2 or Mario Kart 8. NES games might be lack luster, but they work wonderfully.
I think we'd all like regular voice chat built into the system, but it isn't a be all end all...
@SwitchForce
If missing the point was a sport, you’d be an Olympian. Based on a number of your posts, you seem to have a real talent for it.
No one is complaining about the price. Most of us would pay more of it meant a high quality online network with the bells and whistles that have become an industry standard.
Nice job on calling everyone else “trolls” while aimlessly talking trash to them and taking a sycophantic Nintendo-worshipping stance. The irony hit me so hard that I almost lost consciousness.
The subject of the article was a discussion about the quality of the online service. Feel free to share your opinion. Or don’t. But don’t try to shame people for engaging on the subject. That was the entire point.
NES games are not enough to make me pay. How about a party system so I can chat with friends online? As is, I'm using discord instead of the app.
@Ryzaerian Actually...people are, and have been complaining about the price...or even that there would be one, for quite awhile now.
And I am with you on the shaming for opinion part. Everyone has different value propositions, and I think that THAT fact is largely left out of the discussion.
@Crono1973 Both. It's possible to be a successful buisness and still make mistakes. No buisness is perfect.
@Luke937
I'm replying to your soapbox post about vote with your wallet and I just wanted to say two things:
1) You ARE entitled if you think a conservative company would give things away for free
2) Most deleted scenes of movies are removed from standard release versions of the movie and added later to collector's editions or extended release versions so your point is moot. The movie industry does it too.
Anyone who's objecting to Nintendo on line plans currently and who are complaining about needing to wait for services to mature and be developed instead of launched on day one are whiner babies and need to make their ego smaller because no one cares about your $20, because someone else will pay it and your $20 won't mean crap when you're playing Smash Brothers ultimate off the internet so we don't have to hear your cranky butt.
No chance they learn from this. It is really obvious they only do online reluctantly, so much so it is always hobbled. They absolutely seem to loathe online to the point they only seem to learn how to make it worse.
@WiltonRoots Yeah, I figured this was clickbait that wasn't worth my time, doubly so once I saw that @damo wrote it, who I'm still waiting on to answer a legitimate question about the lack of a Virtual Console on Switch. I guess he's playing too many pirated games to respond.
In a not entirely unrelated note, everyone's favorite Irish gamer still holds quite the grudge, and has taken to calling his least favorite site "NintendoDeath". He's not nearly as witty as he thinks he is, but he's also not exactly wrong.
@Kalmaro You think Nintendo doesn't think through every decision they make?
It's not a mistake if they did it on purpose.
They LEARNED their mistakes on WiiU with the VC by having us create "new" My Ninitendo Accounts to have our purchases tied to accounts, instead of consoles, so we wouldn't have to repay for them on the next system. Next system is here, and now we have to RENT the games most of us already own on our VC My Nintendo account.
This is what bothers me most. Yes, the games are there, but I'm less incline to play them when I don't own them. Just like Netflix, I have so many options I don't end up watching many of them because they're "just" there. But, if I purchase a Bluray or TV season on DVD/Bluray I'm going to watch them almost instantly.
I havent even touched any of the "Rental" games available because I'm just not as motivated to play them when I don't own them, and my progress can vanish without notice when they're cycled out. This is just another strategy from Nintendo to make us REPAY for the same games again when they "supposedly" fixed this issue with the MY Nintendo Accounts!!!!!
If they had the classic games available ala carte like VC was and release more than just 3 at a time (heck why even start over, they already had a massive library of vc games already available across 3ds and wiiu, why didn't they just start from there and continue to add to it?).
I don't play online at all so locking games I want to have access to behind a subscription I'm never going to use at all seems like a waste of my money.
Damien McFerren, good, informative and intelligent article, unlike most of the writers here
I keep saying I’ll get NSO when I next want to play one of my online games... then keep putting off playing them because I don’t wanna start playing yet. Honestly, even SNES games would make me instantly subscribe. I tried the NES games with the free trial and they weren’t any more fun for me than those games initially were. I have zero nostalgia for them (my first console was SNES) and, outside a couple, they mostly end up feeling like minigames to me and not worthy of even $20 collectively.
I’m sorry. I just feel like there’s little value here still, yes PSN costs triple but the games I’ve gotten as free more than make up for it. I was getting online on Switch for free and don’t see much reason to pay for that now, especially since most of the games aren’t even using dedicated servers.
Also... I don’t agree with people being so certain it will add features soon. Nintendo does not have that reputation, they wait as long as possible to get to the same place other companies reached years ago. I’m not holding my breath for other consoles added to this service. If we ever get them, it won’t be for a long time and they’ll continue to drip feed us a couple games a month. Oh but they’re “free” with this online service, what a great value!
@ShadJV the games on psn are not free. Once you cancel the service, you do not have access to those games. Now Xbox one, if you cancel the service, you will still keep Xbox 360 games.
@LuckyLand I am sure you like Sony innovations like the PlayStation move or the psvsr
@ekwcll neither are the ones in this service. My point is while it’s triple the price, the games you get access to are MUCH more than triple the value. They’re “free” in the same way that this NES games are, which is what many people are arguing - that you’re paying for the online service, and the games are incentive.
@ekwcll Nintendo is my favorite developer but I’m not gonna defend them when they’re providing inferior services. Unlike Sony or Xbox, Switch’s online games are almost entirely P2P and require no dedicated servers. They’re charging money just to gate off features that don’t cost them extra. If they had good incentives that would be one thing, but they aren’t.
@ekwcll Nintendo is my favorite developer but I’m not gonna defend them when they’re providing inferior services. Unlike Sony or Xbox, Switch’s online games are almost entirely P2P and require no dedicated servers. They’re charging money just to gate off features that don’t cost them extra. If they had good incentives that would be one thing, but they aren’t.
The ridiculous Legend of Zelda - Sp Special demonstrates how little Nintendo knows what we want.
@ekwcll The only thing about Sony that I prefer compared to Nintendo is that Sony is much more fair to the customers who don't subscribe to their online services.
You clearly don't know what I like at all but you are sure that I like things that I have not even tried because 1) I completely don't care and 2) I am completely against them and since the default controller on Playstation consoles is the normal gamepad the thought of wasting my money in pieces of plastic other than the game discs and the consoles themselves never even got slightly close to my mind. I prefer buying more games or toys like action figures than waste my money in things like PS move or anything like that.
PS: I don't even want to try any kind of VR be it on console or on PC because I am sure I would become really anxious and feel really bad using a device like that and I also hate first person view
@PanurgeJr Right, you've lost me. What exactly is 'clickbaity' about this piece? It's a talking point discussing Nintendo's handling of its online service which touches upon the fact that the company has time to fix things, and it features comments from a professional working in the industry - comments which took a lot of time and effort to secure.
Please do explain this amazing 'catch all' use of clickbait you seem to love so much.
Oh, and purely FYI, I tend to find people respond to your 'legitimate questions' when you don't insult them first.
@Crono1973 I'm not understanding your point. I'm not saying that did something on accident. I'm sure they did things purposely, they just were wrong in doing so in some cases.
@gortsi
I assume that when the PS5 is released in a few years it will be OK when PSN doesn't have proper voice chat, friend management etc. "Its early days guys".
No, thats not how anything works. The service offered on the Wii U was better. Its 2018 and you cannot get away with offering the **** that Nintendo does with their OS. Its nothing to do with learning. They have chosen to design their online like this because they either don't care or don't want to spend the money. Its a joke that it took 18 months to give us cloud saves. Yes, cloud saves. Something that is simple to implement and should be day one on any modern console.
How people can defend Nintendo like they are some garage company with 3 employees is beyond me. They are multi multi billion dollar company with access to the best programming talent in the world. Please don't try and tell me this is due to technical implementation issues or limitations.
@Kalmaro
That kind of implies that they had 2 decisions to make with merit to both sides of the decision.
"Should we give people cloud saves for a portable console"
"Should we have a proper friends and chat system"
I have no idea how either of these things managed to be a decision that they went with for any reason other than. Nah, lets see how it goes and save the money.
@mctrials23 you sound confused friend, I didn't defend or excuse anything. I've mentioned things like a proper voice chat in the past and nobody claims the service is perfect, far from it. One thing I know about the PSN is that more than a decade after its launch you still cannot change your username and from next year you'll have to pay them to do so while they cannot even guarantee that your new name is going to work on all games. Simple advice, if you don't like it that much don't pay for it.
@LuckyLand the way you sounded earlier, you were bashing Nintendo and their innovations. It sounded to me that you were a sony follower, besides if Nintendo and sega and others don"t innovate, you will end of seeing boring systems after another. While their ideas don't always work, I applaud that they at least made the effort.
@ShadJV depends on what games come out during that month, and it is not always going to be triple aaa games either. Also unless you download it , the games will disappear after that month is over. Even though Nintendo is just starting their paid online, the games will not disappear and they will keep adding on games every month
@ShadJV it is not about defending them, it is about their online. Sony and Microsoft have better online, but they didn't start out perfect either. Nintendo at least have a simpler online providing with games to start with. Cloud saves for those that want them. They just got started, but it is all about choice. Either you want their online or not.
@ekwcll I don't dislike Sony, I like some of their games, but often I prefer Nintendo games. I don't care if a system is boring, I don't want the system to be interesting I want the games to be interesting, fun and exciting to play.
A system which is boring because it does not innovate is a system that is easy to use, comfortable, intuitive, and this is all I care about. I love games I'm not interested in the systems itself. So I talk bad about the innovations everytime those innovations have bad consequences on other things that I care about more or if those innovations force me to use them in games that I like and want to play but could have been perfectly playable with classic pads too and instead are made to not support them for example.
(for example I would like Super Mario Galaxy to be playable with the classic controller, but at the same time I understand and accept that a game like Trauma center cannot be played with the classic controller. It happened so often that Nintendo forced people to use motion controls even in games where they were not strictly necessary. This was quite annoying for me. Not as much as this subscription is of course and in the end I still love Wii and its games, but that does not mean I love EVERYTHING about it. I'm glad that I had the chance to play Trauma center since the default controller was the wiimote anyway, but if it was not I'm almost sure I wouldn't have bought it because I don't think it would have been worth it and I would have preferred to have a default classic controller to let more racing, action and fighting games be developed for Wii)
My favorite part about the NES classics is the menu you can't toggle away that's forever reminding us what + and - do.
Because apparently that was needed.
@BubbleMatrix82
“no one cares about your $20”
Nintendo do.
“because someone else will pay it”
It doesn’t work like that.
““are whiner babies”
My ironyometer just overloaded.
@Damo
You said something that wasn’t ‘Nintendo are amazing!!!!!’
Some posters on here don’t like that.
@SwitchForce
“I see alot of naysayers and were probably the very same one that said the Switch sales would hit the trash heap.”
Prove it.
“companies that start out Online Services isn't a success overnight”
Nintendo started Online gaming 13 years ago.
“if that was the case then why aren't you complaining how MS and Sony online where when they came out.”
Who are you talking to and how do you know they don’t complain about the other services? Why does it matter if they do or don’t?
“No it's just poor fanboys”
Again, I’ve an irony headache
“If so let's see you do better”
Are you challenging people who don’t work for Nintendo to design a better Online service?
Just stop. That whole post is excruciating.
@electrolite77
There are more people willing to pay $20 than people who won't. And since Nintendo is used to NO ONE paying ANYTHING, 5 people paying $20 and 3 people who don't is still $100 they didn't have. If you think you not subscribing means Nintendo will see your rejection as a political movement/action to change their service into Xbox Live then you clearly don't understand how businesses work nor do you understand how fundraising works.
Nintendo doesn't need petty people's cash, you're too high maintenance and too hard to please. Nintendo is an entertainment company, not a community center; they've never cared about their products enough to encourage community engagement. Nintendo just needed a source of income that's passive to help pay the bills when stockholders became cranky between 1st party AAA titles, hence the fee in the first place.
The value part is a personal issue, not a Nintendo issue. I value $20 very differently today than I did 10 years ago. 10 years ago I was poor and every single dollar and every single check went to survival. I would be unhappy to get a crap service for $20 too; but then and again I wasn't buying a new game ever few weeks like I am today so my money HAD to be put to good use. Today though I subscribe to services I don't even use and I buy games I probably will never make time to play. It's a totally different ball game now that I have several months of bills in the bank and I have liquidable cash.
So yeah, they don't need your $20 if that seems like a lot of money to you for the service they gave you for an annual cost of a measly $20.
@Kalmaro People act like Nintendo is merely incompetent and feel sorry for them but Nintendo makes those bad decisions on purpose and without caring how consumers will react. For example, not making a proper account system for cross buy/cross save VC games wasn't because Nintendo didn't know how, it's because they refused. The elimination of the VC wasn't because they thought people wanted NES games online, it's because they could no longer make excuses for their lack of cross buy/cross save of VC (so they killed it instead).
They are not a poor, incompetent company who just can't seem to catch up. They are a company who refuses to catch up and then they claim that they aren't really in competition with Sony, Microsoft and Valve.
@Crono1973 I think there's some confusion here. When I said mistake, I meant they just did something unwise, not unintentionally.
@BubbleMatrix82
As a fan of Nintendo I hope you never get a job with them. Though you’re probably right in that they wanted a passive set of customers unblinkingly and unthinkingly handing over their cash. I’ll let you think about what that says about you and the other zealots. I’d probably get banned if I spelt it out.
“There are more people willing to pay $20 than people who won't”
You might be right but we don’t know that. We also don’t know how many will keep it on or would have paid more for better. We also don’t know how many have been pushed away from the system altogether and are buying games elsewhere as a result of not seeing any value in the Online service. You’re guessing.
However if you think they don’t want my money you’re completely wrong. Simple as that.
And next time, try posting rationally like in that last reply without the ‘entitled’, ‘whiner’, ‘ego’ BS that makes you sound like an angry 10-year-old.
@gortsi
You are suggesting that its OK for Nintendo to be missing basic features because the console has only been out 20 months. Thats BS. The PS4 was released 5 years ago and was better than the Switch OS wise even then.
There is a slight difference between "why can't I change my username" and "why can't I talk to my friends easily or backup the games I have sunk hundreds of hours into". If you can't admit that you're just being obtuse.
Everyone has features they would like but Nintendo repeatedly gives us the bare minimum while they sit on their hands trying to figure out how to wring every last penny out of their customers.
Does Nintendo really want to learn? That should be the question. It seems to me that they want to do whatever they feel like. They've been acting that way since the decline of the Wii.
@electrolite77
As a fan of Nintendo but also a person who understands how Conservative businesses are ran I am glad that I don't work for Nintendo too. I am a risk taker and I would get the company to go bankrupt finally. Games like Chibi Robo, Odama, Mother, and other lesser known IPs would have sequels and I wouldn't care if the titles flopped. I would also have went all out with the online service and blew Microsoft and Sony out of the water with integrated Discord, Skype, Twitch, and a full NES to Wii Netflix service. Of course everyone would have to wait 2 more years to develop such applications with proper security to limit homebrew and illegal ROM playing exploits, but at least it would be "correct" coming out of the gates.
But being more down to earth and reasonable, Nintendo is going at a healthy pace and saving "extra features" for their new Switch model next year. The next Switch model, without a doubt, will be a fully internet integrated system, leaving this model to be the 2DS (degraded version of the main hardware) version of the Switch family. And you can expect a $400 price point to compensate for the advances of battery, wi-fi, and internal storage.
Honestly, $20 is nothing compared to the $60 you pay for XBL or PSN. Sure, most people would pay the extra $40 if there was $40 worth of content available, but Nintendo doesn't have it ready yet. Developing online applications (in house) takes time. Sure they could do like I suggested and adopt the current standards; but that means they have to share profits too and that's not very Nintendo of them. They are making their own platform.
History lesson - PSN is really just XBL. One of the lead engineers that made XBL what it is today left Microsoft to work for Sony and they made their PSN what it is today. Looking back at the PS2 and it's online service with SOCOM 2 and ATV Offroad Fury 2 and other games, they didn't have a centralized hub. You had to open the game to see if your friends were online; each game had their own server hosted by the 3rd party maker. So Sony cheated and hired the XBL guy. Nintendo is building their own from scratch, so it doesn't matter if it is 15 years behind, Nintendo is doing it their way and that's the Nintendo way (if you've been paying attention). It's like they benefit from being the black sheep who doesn't conform.
As far as the smear words, you're right that was unclassy of me, but my argument is still valid. You are entitled and feel privileged to better service, despite Nintendo making it clear this is just a fundraising and a bribery since online multiplayer is now gated behind a pay gate. And to be perfectly honest, having minors as young as 5 years old online in splatoon with all that porn fan art is just not a good idea so a pay gate was a smart idea considering they don't want to do moderation any more with a centralized server.
Lastly, I paid $35 for my membership so I could get my whole family in. My $15 counts as a replacement for your lack of $20; they still don't need your money. They want it, but not bad enough to sweeten the deal and give up more assets. If this isn't enough, they just need to sweeten the deal with BETTER GAMES that you CAN'T play ONLINE. (read: Smash)
@mctrials23 nah didn't suggest that, that's just your imagination. And I'm sorry you feel Nintendo is skinning you alive by charging £18 a year, I've heard Sony is a philanthropic organisation these days so I'm sure they'll let you have all these features for free
@gortsi
Its not the money they charge for online, it's their unwillingness to give customers even basic features that any system should have in 2018. I can get PSN for twice the cost of Nintendo online and I get 10x more value.
If I don't want to spend that I still get a console that does way way more than the Switch for less money. If you think Nintendo give people value for money compared to PS and MS you are massively deluded.
I love Nintendo games but they offer the least value in their consoles out of the big three by miles. Without the handheld, always-on aspect of the Switch it would be doing very poorly.
@ekwcll obviously you need to download the games that month, I HAVE playstation plus, I know. It takes me all of a few minutes to download the games. Cloud saves aren’t worth paying $20 for me and NES games aren’t worth a penny to me. But I DO shave games that pretty much require online for most functionality (like Splatoon 2) and do what happened is those are suddenly not accessible unless I pay Nintendo a toll for NO REASON because they aren’t using servers for them, it’s P2P which costs them NOTHING. There’s zero reason to charge us for that other than corporate greed. They see other companies charging for online and want to do the same, but other companies have more reason to. Yes Plus didn’t always have the extra incentives but it was always covering the cost of games that required dedicated servers. There was still reason to charge consumers. And don’t for a second thing there’s much of a chance Nintendo will add features to make this a better value over time, at least not for quite awhile, Nintendo has never evolved their services that fast. You are absolutely defending Nintendo when there is no reason for them to lock online behind a price wall because it’s P2P. Something you’ve yet to address because unlike you, not everyone cares about cloud saves or crappy NES games.
@ShadJV kinda funny that you would call nes games crappy. They may be many years old, but they still are retro games. Games that will not go away every month. Modern games are good too, but if wasn't for these crappy retro games you wouldn't be playing glorified modern games today. Nintendo is starting out with nes, and I am sure other systems will follow. So at least have a little respect for these crappy games that started out on the nes.
@ekwcll
The games can and probably will disappear from the service unlike VC which you own and have every right to play forever even if they are taken off the service or the service ends. Just think in 5 years you have paid $100 for the same games over and over again and with the drip feed as it is now you won't even get the games you'd want to play because they obviously know what we want to play.
@electrolite77 notice they would txt it but no links if your saying otherwise. People always say how easy it it but notice they won't foot the money to do so or put their funds at risk if it goes bad. What people forget is it takes money to make a online presence going correctly and the past is no indicator of as of right now online. It takes online infrastructure to support Online services and that cost money from investor to work. For the average joe/jane those cost would be a ShangriLa moment. You can say all you want how bad it is but why don't you build their infrastructure to show them how it's done at your own expense. All this talk is just your opinion if not puts some funds behind it and prove Nintendo wrong that a Online from Day One has no issues. Everyone online services has growing pains and done the right way will insure it will work the right way long into oblivion. What was done in the past is that Past and this has to rebuild something different but people seem to have some attachment like a tick and can't let it go. This is what I call closed minded sets never trying to be outside of the box.
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