Soapbox: Nintendo's Excuses Regarding Cloud Saves Aren't Good Enough

"Oh, Nintendo"
Freeze frame of everyone laughing
Credits roll.

Yep this article is spot on.
It's embarrassing for Nintendo really.

“Several excuses are always less convincing than one.”

Hey, I thought we were supposed to quit our complaining.

Also last time I checked some of the Final Fantasies won't even support when they come which also makes no sense to me as they are supported on other consoles for cloud saves.

Even without the comparison to other services, it doesn't make sense.

@saintayu Source?

Their excuses aren't good enough on anything around a paying online service. It's not about the cost, it's about what it offers. In system voice chat, messaging and inviting friends, dedicated servers is what should be a given.

@serendipitiful]]] https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/09/guide_nintendo_switch_online_faq_-_everything_you_need_to_know_-_pricing_cloud_saves_nes_games_games

Listed in the part about cloud saves, it lists games that won't be supported. I'd like to think this site would at least get that right.

A. Men.
Time and again Nintendo proves that they just can't do online. The current state of cloud saves is an absolute joke, but not a very funny one.

''Nintendo Switch Online Is Actually A Very Generous Offer - So quit your complaining''

''Nintendo's Excuses Regarding Cloud Saves Aren't Good Enough''

Pick one or the other

Personally I would much rather be able to backup my saves a live with a few cheaters, than what we currently have where everyone is penalised.

Splatoon 1 has people cheating their rank with saves, but who cares? If a few people have a higher rank than they deserve then that just makes it easier for me, right?

And again, if people want to cheat in offline games then so be it - that has no impact on me, but not being able to backup my own saves does impact me.

Mario tennis got it right. Ranking uploads to server

After the grief Nintendo got for putting the OP Bayonetta into Smash, I’m not surprised they don’t want to cause another outcry in Splatoon’s online player base over people manipulating the system.

@saintayu
I wouldn't take that at face value. The release of these games is so far away, that it's probably just still uncertain. I at least took this with a raised eyebrow (because I'm interested in those games), but also with a good serving of salt. Better to wait until they're released, and complain (or worry) if cloud saving REALLY isn't supported for a fact (or better yet: don't complain at all, because a very wise man once said: "Change what you can't accept, and accept what you can't change." - It's better for your health, too! ). Until then I regard this as a rumor at best.

I think Nintendo just did not want to put themselves into a position where, by offering a competent fully functioning service, they raise peoples expectations for the future offerings. As it stands we will all just acknowledge they do not get online and lower our expectation in response.

Still don't understand the point of there being voice chat on the nintendo switch app when you can use discord or another app to chat with friends

@Medic_alert I thought the winky face was enough to tell that it was a not-very-serious comment

@Octane winky face not big enough

@DarkSithDoom shouldn't have to use any apps/extra devices for messaging/chat/party play on a console in 2018.

"but isn't the onus on Nintendo to find a way to combat them that doesn't involve denying cloud save rights to people who are paying for the service?"

It is. Just like the onus is on people to make and act on civil choices whether they're satisfied with a product or a service and whether they continue to use it for the pricetag it bears. Not keep making ultimatum demands and offended slogans without even bothering to check if the company wants to meet them or not (which, including all the sales and customers they'd risk losing, is a conscious choice they're entitled to as well). Like some point out, Nintendo has had 18 months to address this, so maybe it IS time to ask ourselves whether it's about ignorance or actual unwillingness?

@1UP_MARIO

@Galenmereth I feel you and this is why I have voted no with my wallet. Its in line with the half physical games Nintendo is allowing people to sell. Make they digital only or complete on the cart. Anti consumer is what it is, they have had a whole year to work on this and it's still half arsed. For shame Nintendo.

@JunkRabbit well I would assume they wouldn't just pull it out of their butts although nowadays you never know. 😏

Yeah, I'm not buying a subscription. Way to go Nintendo, you've given me a reason to renew my PS+ subscription. Theirs has more value.

There will always be people who cheat and mess things up for people online, so just save everything on cloud! ... I was going to buy online but atm? Nah, I'll wait till Jan and decide then I thinks...

Also! Anyone who has online could you please tell me how much discount you get on buying eshop games and all? Thanking!

Actually kind of awesome that Switch Online is failing so hard. They'll either have to scrap the whole thing to start from scratch (maybe by making it free again to draw in new buyers), or they'll make Switch's great emphasis on local multiplayer even better. Win-win.

@Gauchorino I want more local multiplayer games! Lol

This isn't a problem with the service itself, it's about Splatoon 2 and how it's coded. I'm sure they can fix it, but it will take time. All of the important information about rankings, items etc needs to be saved on Splatoon's servers, and in that case the cloud saving is almost useless, unless you care about single player.

Really, people are making this issue bigger than it is. I also think that most people blame the wrong tree, so to speak. I think it's important for Nintendo to offer developers the possibility of not using cloud saves if they don't want to. Don't blame FIFA's lack of cloud saves on Nintendo, blame it on EA.

@Dazza Users in previous comment sections have stated that NBA 2K19 and Dead Cells do support cloud saves. It has also been suggested that Dark Souls will. Is the information in this article actually based on personal experience from NLife team members?

@Gauchorino What evidence is there to suggest it is failing? The people who populate game site comment sections do not represent the general public. The general public will most likely say "Ah well, it costs £18/year now" and subscribe.

I have managed for many years and many Nintendo console's without cloud save, and without the desperate need to pay and play nes games, a few of which I have on my DS.

So that leaves on line play. Rather subjective whether is good value or not, and for me it's not, I don't play online games.

If Nintendo want to take more of my cash they will need to do better.

There are over thousand titles compatible with cloud saves listed on the Nintendo website, but just because one or two are not supported, you all shi**** your pants and pretend this is the worse thing ever.🙄
Besides, why doesn't Dark Souls or Fifa support cloud saves? What's the excuse there?

@BionicDodo I'm just basing that on the extremely negative coverage and reception it's getting, really. I imagine a lot of the general public that already own a Switch will object to having to pay for something they had for free, as well, but I guess we'll see.

@Gauchorino I reckon the average person will not really be too bothered about paying £1.50/month. People spend £1000 on a mobile phone these days...

As for negative coverage, the net was flooded with articles and forums talking about how JoyCons didn't work and screens were cracking etc when the Switch came out and that didn't stop it from selling a bazillion units.

Hold up.

This article is misinformed, yet again.

Dead Cells does support cloud saves, NBA 2K supports cloud saves, and it looks like Dark Souls does too.

Did ya do any research or just haphazardly write an entire article based on hearsay. Can't even get their facts right. You wanna complain about Splatoon 2, lets complain about Splatoon 2. But all these other games are supported.

And it's perpetuated ignorance like this that just makes an issue seem systemic rather than an isolated issue. Not that its ok for Splatoon. It's not. But the issue isn't omitting this one game from cloud saves. Its their failure to work with developers to find an alternative.

Moan moan moan. Jesus.

Nintendo's reasons are pretty spot on. We might not agree with them, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. Because they aren't wrong.

And about some third-party games not supporting cloud saves... Nintendo has nothing to do with that. It's up to the developers to decide if they support the feature or not.

This is just blowing a problem out of proportion just for the sake of it. It is a problem, yes, but not that big of a problem.

@BionicDodo But will the average person do the math after seeing that £18 pricetag?

The people who don't have a Switch yet might buy into it, sure. They likely won't realise what they lost. But the Switch already has a sizeable userbase that is susceptible to being damaged by bad moves like this one.

@BionicDodo all my game data magically saves it's self some how in the Switch. I tested this by loading Mario Odyssey which I haven't played since February and all my moons were still there. I don't think I need to pay to back up a back up.

@Gauchorino Switch Online is actually a success..

This is just a perfect example of how woefully behind the curve Nintendo really is.

Nintendo makes some really wonderful and fantastic games. No doubt!
But when it comes to catching up to new technology, they are hilariously behind the curve.

Next to the whole Voice chat debacle, which the competition has already for over a decade, this whole cloudsave debacle is just another clear example of how outdated Nintendo really is!

When you have a game like Splatoon 2, with Online and Competitive features, progress should be stored on Online servers like the competition has done since ages!
This would in one fell sweep resolve the cloud save issue.

Rocket League, Minecraft and Fortnite store progress and purchases on Online servers, only like locally created maps like in Minecraft are stored locally, but these are huge files (gigabytes), so Nintendo is obviously cheaping out to refuse this to be saved online.

@Gauchorino Most people don't care about making a stand or proving a point to Nintendo. I imagine most will think "I have bought a Switch for £280 and I enjoy playing games online. If I want to keep doing that I have to pay £18. Ah well, its only £18 and I spent more than that in the pub last night and all I got for my troubles was a hangover." There isn't an alternative option if they want to keep using the £280 device for what they bought it for.

Is this article necessary? Everyone knows it's Nintendo's responsibility to combat hackers. I'm a huge Nintendo guy, and even I'm calling them on their BS for Splatoon 2 lacking cloud saves to combat the cheaters. Idc about them, I want my data backed up!

Quit your complaining it's flawless and only cost 20 bucks.

/s

@BionicDodo its based on what Nintendo list on their own store. Dead Cells says it does not support cloud saves.

Why would Splatoon 2 store data about leaderboards locally? Isn't that pointless, not to mention enabling 'hackers' to manipulate said leaderboards in the first place? Isn't the latter reason enough to change this pointless practice asap? I would have never occured to me that such aspects of one's online profile wer estored locally, where they are easily lost or worse, manipulated.

Nintendo should address this asap then, entirely independent from the cloud-save issue. Now, beyond that, what does not work for me is the fact that they exclude games that work natively on other platforms, like for instance Dark Souls and Dead Cells. How is cheating a problem on the Switch but not on any other platform running these games? This needs to be "explained" as well and then changed accordingly, because ... well, otherwise we are wandering into Flat-Earther territority here in terms of willful ignornace.

I wouldn't say any of this would really entice me to get on-board right now, as I simply do not play nearly enough online on the Switch to warrant any such purchase, but at the very least, it would make the whole service seem less like a mess. I mean backing up my safegames, some of them indeed with way over 100h+ play, would be neat, but not with those current caveats attached. I have strict policy against supporting any service I feel offers unreasonable conditions ... and yes, these stipulations are entirely unreasonable to me, as mentioned.

Again, these are non-issues everywhere else and stuff like Splatoon 2's leaderboards should be addressed for various reason of which cloud-saving is only one. Get on it Nintendo!

@BumpkinRich Yes, but people in the comment sections of every single one of these articles say that it does support it. As journalists it is surely the job of NLife writers to find out the exact facts of the matter. Some games having the incorrect info on their page at launch is a far smaller issue than games not supporting it at all.

@Ralek85 It just shows that Nintendo is still stuck in the 90's when it comes to making Online games.

It's indeed absolutely baffling how Nintendo still thinks it's perfectly fine for Online competitive games to have locally stored save files.

The whole no-cloud save strategy for Splatoon2 to combat cheating is a joke, since splatoon2 has been hacked and full of cheaters since day 1 !
There is plenty of proof online to be found for this, even this site has reported an article or two about it.

So banning Splatoon2 from cloud saves is just hurting honest players and not the cheaters and hackers, who have been and continue to cheat and hack the game since day 1.

Nintendo is just in complete denial of the truth! Instead of really fixing the hacking/cheating problem in Splatoon 2, like storing progress on Online servers, they just burry their head in the sand and just put a half arsed measure in place like banning cloud saves.

Pokemon bank should be free already.....

Yeah, the fact my switch screen broke last week, hadn't turned it on in a month, very careful with all my electronics, and it's out of warranty now cause it's a launch system, Switch online is a pass from me. But to be fair, I never play online.

Guess I'll just wait for a revision to be announced. I think it might be a loose ribbon cable or something, don't wanna open it up and find out just yet.

@BionicDodo I've just been back to the store and your right. Dead Cells no longer has the message. Egg on my face.

@JaxonH
You are right about NBA 2K, but got any source for Dead Cells and Dark Souls? Because on the Nintendo homepage, these games are not listed with cloud save functionality.🤔

@saintayu
What I'm saying is that they don't even have any footage yet, it's so early in production. I don't believe that they're actually decided on the issue yet. More likely someone forgot to check a box somewhere in the press statement, so Cloud Saves are just not confirmed at this time. I doubt that the press statement read: "We don't even have a release date yet and nothing else to show, so far we just PLAN to bring it to the console, but guess what, just out of spite we've already decided that we won't allow cloud saves with this single player game, even though it really doesn't make sense! Ha, take THAT, Nintendo Fans! We start to support Switch big-time, but still find a way to annoy you! Muahuahaa!"

And because it really doesn't make any sense to me that these games would forego cloud saves, I am still convinced that they'll have them, in spite of these early assumptions. I think the absence of a confirmation that it will be supported is really not the same as a confirmation that it will NOT be supported. But time will tell, I suppose.

Excellent article, especially after that sadly misinformed previous soapbox I love the way you brought out the objective flaws here.

“Soapbox” feature has now become “I heard people said this so I’m not going to look into it and verify”

But, ya know.

no excuse how long did they have to roll out this turd sorry service and they still made a total pigs ear of it.

@Beatley82 First world problems.

@Yasaal
There's really nothing objective about this article. It's all a very subjective point of view and an individual opinion (which is absolutely fine). You may agree with it if it meets your own individual point of view, but that doesn't nake it objective. It just means that there's more than one person in the world that share this subjective opinion.

@JaxonH @MrBlacky
Several readers of this very website have already reported that Dead Cells flawlessly saves to the cloud. I can confirm this, too, have just done the Cloud Backup for this title successfully.

Could they not do an auto save function with those games

@Octane Pick one or the other

I believe they picked - Hey look our last Soapbox had 547 comments, so lets write another with the exact opposite opinion and see if we can get that many again.

Yaaawwwn. Poorly researched "article" about a non issue. Pay it or fillet it on your own. I want more happy news not this whining.

@JunkRabbit I doubt there was very much work as the games already exist and they are ports. It's not like they're making the games from scratch.

I do find it odd either way as well though.

A password scribbled on the back of the manual was the original cloud save.

@Arnold-Kage auto transfer using the newest save data. Stopping people from being able to restore to a previous say?

Yes they could. But would they take the time to slightly modify their initial implementation of cloud backup (even if it could be a very simple addition). Not like we've all be waiting for a way to keep our games saves save. Just incase something happens like.
1) System physical damage
2) Dodgy third party accessories
3) Bad firmware update from Nintendo bricking the system
4) Non removable battery fails

Someone is no doubt thinking "But you can use the system transfer process" which can't be done if the system is not able to be started. Thus we need cloud saves for every game that is on the system. Not just some/most.

I doubt Pokémon Let's Go will be supported by Pokémon Bank, at least not in the way that is hinted at in the article, considering that Pokémon in Let's Go won't have abilities. If they are transferrable to Pokémon Bank, then they probably couldn't be transferred back to said games... same as what Nintendo did with the Virtual Console games on 3DS. But Pokémon Bank would certainly not be a solution in that case.

I see the benefits of online and cloud saving, I just hope it remains an "Option" and not forced upon the player, I don't usually have access to the internet unless I'm at the library (which does not have wifi or allow LAN), and I'm fine with that, I'm not a digital downloader anyway, but I want to be able to get games, only to be screwed when I find out I can't save my progression

@Octane they are both troll bait. Even though this one is true!

I stand by the opinion that cloud saves should be free for any system that doesnt allow you to export game saves by normal means.

I just hope all this cloud clears away so the sun comes out

Counterpoint: Why would anyone want a potentially legally discoverable record of them, via a cloud-save file on Nintendo's servers, having ever owned "1-2 Switch"?

I agree that Minecraft needs cloud saves, though, just given how much work people can put into creating their worlds.

Off topic a bit- So i got to speaking to a Japanese friend of mine that I've played with on Iruna online... Its a mobile mmorpg made by a Japanese company.

I found out that while the phone app makes no sense to us... It makes perfect sense to them. (I would have realized it having been involved in that community of asian mobile phone gamers since 2014)

While no native console chat or messaging makes no sense to us... To have it on a phone makes perfect sense to them.

We would prefer voice and massaging on console but they would prefer it on the mobile phone because the mobile phone is basically Japanese PC's... To them thats what mobile phone technology is....

The phone app is defo here to stay.

I pay Apple £x/m for extra iCloud storage. Should I stop paying for it, they delete all my data to claim back their server space.

Google and Microsoft do exactly the same thing with their cloud storage.

Remind me again what Nintendo are doing wrong? You are effectively leasing server space (however small) to have your saved backed up. Why should Nintendo keep them around if you stop paying for it? It’s not like my landlord will let me continue to live in my house if I stop paying rent.

We gamers need to get off our high horses a bit.

@NintendoFan4Lyf Hey, thanks for that info!! That's worth it for the box art alone! I just looked it up and saw an article about doing it. I'll throw it in the NES Online thread

@Galenmereth "So remind me again why you want us to pay for your online "service", Nintendo?"

Simple. Investors see Sony and MS making money hand over fist for effectively nothing, and since Nintendo is a publicly traded business they need to answer to those demands, plain and simple.

You wouldn't be insane enough to tell the people sending cash your way that no, this free, proven, easy money on the table isn't worth it.

Ever since they mentioned paid online in January 2017, I have noticed this entire thing feels reluctant. Honestly it seems like even Nintendo themselves don't want to do it.

£20 for online isn't bad, it's just been handled incredibly badly.

To give something for free, and then take it away is just negative psychologically.

Further to that, no cloud saves for 2 of the most popular franchises. I don't think cloud saves are that important, but that just creates a bad impression.

It's like Nintendo just don't care anymore. Kiind of like if the Coca-Cola Company suddenly woke up and realised that they don't need to advertise their globally famous carbonated drink.

@Galenmereth
They just started having your pay for your internet access to their Switch or any Nintendo video game system ever, and you expect them to have a full warehouse of servers running, and fully advanced online features. Obviously you never owned a PS3 when PS Plus first came out, or hell even a PS4 wasn't off to the races at launch. So how about you sit there, pay your measly $20 and wait to see what their next actions are. Or you can sell your Switch to me if you are truly that upset by it.

Where are the fanboys that defend everything now?

@MrBlacky
source

I've personally backed Dead Cells up. It's all over the internet, everyone (who's paying attention) knows the game works with cloud saves and the initial reports were simply wrong.

110% confirmed, no question. Dead Cells is supported.

Dark Souls is not 100% confirmed as the game hasn't released. But I preloaded it, and there's no warning about cloud saves like Splatoon 2. It looks identical to every other game that's supported. And in light of the false reports concerning Dead Cells and NBA 2K, it's starting to look like that could be the case for Dark Souls as well.

@iLikeUrAttitude The 'fanboys' are probably too busy enjoying NES games or playing their other online games to comment on a Soapbox that's still holding on to misinformation. Just a guess, though

@GauBan

True but it was the first idea that popped in my head

@Drache_Kaiser

Exactly. Perhaps Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and ARMS don't suffer with many hackers online, or there's something else with Splatoon 2 that Nintendo doesn't know how to solve yet and isn't clear about it.

I’m getting tired of hearing the same complaints over and over. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Nobody is forcing you in to it.

We have so much negativity going on in our world these days, from global politics, to natural disasters. Can’t we at least be positive about the things that are supposed to bring us joy like video games?

@JaxonH
I see. Honestly it wouldnˋt make sense for Dead Cells not to support cloud saves. And what warning did you get in Splatoon 2? I didn't get anything and it only says in Settings, that cloud saves aren't supported (the same as with the Dark Souls Network Test).

Regardless of what Nintendo says, what we can see for ourselves is that this is specifically a SPLATOON 2 problem, and a Splatoon 2 problem alone. Nintendo, and NSO are fine and work as expected. This is specifically a problem with Splatoon, due to, yes, apparent incompetence by the Splatoon team, in sticking with a system that was already a poor choice back on the WiiU.

For all the people that insist Splatoon 2 is a sequel and not an enhanced port, I present the cloud save situation as the best evidence to date. The codebase is a copy and paste job of Splatoon WiiU to the point that they prevented local backups and denied cloud backups of saves to carry water for the fact that it used the obsolete save state system lifted right from the WiiU. That's bad enough, but the fact they refuse to fix it (or don't know how to fix it without breaking too much) is the real problem.

But, we really should stop panning the cloud saves and NSO at large for this issue. It is clearly not an issue with NSO or Nintendo at large. Of all the online Nintendo games, Mario Tennis Aces was patched the same day to store profile data server-side. MK8D and ARMS support cloud saves without issue, presumably storing the ranking data server-side. This is the Splatoon team, and the Splatoon team alone bearing responsibility for this. It makes their game worse. Much worse than it should be. But it's not a failing of the service, it's a failing of one game.

Pokemon LGP does not support cloud saves, however it's save to presume this is because Pokemon sells its own cloud save service separately they'd like to push you into that predates this one (Pokebank.)

Minecraft does not support cloud saves (yet?) however they also sell a subscription service for server-side saves (along with a private server) which is probably part of why they're forcing you into that one. Also, of note, is that Minecraft bedrock still has significant holes of unsupported features regarding that server feature on both Switch and Microsoft's own XBox One, for some bizzarre reason only PS4 has the full feature parity with PC for now. So I'd consider Minecraft "early access beta" on both Switch and XBox One (which does support cloud saves for the game IIRC), and not yet finished. We may see cloud save support or total server-side saving by the time all the promised features work. That one's an outlier from a competing console owner who donsn't even have the online features working right on their own console yet....

So Microsoft is doing whatever Microsoft is doing with Minecraft. Pokemon wants to sell you a separate cloud save service they've been selling for years (that should have (or will be?) been included with NSO. It's only $5/yr. It's a nice bonus to throw into subscriptions. And that leaves Splatoon 2. I'm aware of no other games for which cloud saves are not supported to date (other than those storing data server-side.)

All of this attention needs to be directed at the glaring problem with Splatoon 2 and its dev team that has so far resisted the only sane approach to profile data. Cloud saves aren't broken. Splatoon 2 is.

(Note that demos, network tests, etc don't support cloud saves...they really don't need to.)

@Ralek85 Dark Souls and Dead Cells do support cloud saves. Smash is already confirmed to support cloud saves. So much of this was rumor that got picked up and repeated as fact.

@MrBlacky
If you hit + on a game icon, and go to Cloud Saves in the context menu that pops up, Splatoon 2 says "This software is not supported by cloud saves".

Games that are supported instead show the users which you can select to upload save data from. Dark Souls does not show that warning, instead it shows the users you can upload save data from. They're greyed out, because it hasnt released yet, but they're there

We've talked about this to death. No way of saving Splatoon 2 is complete madness.

@JaxonH
It says the same for both for me: "Backup not supported".

@JaxonH @MrBlacky Demo/Network tests aren't a fair test. I still have all the network tests on my system (the 2 Splatoon ones, the ARMS one, the Mario Tennis one, demos for Lost Sphear, DQ:B, and other stuff I forget. None of those support cloud saves, but all but Splatoon do support them in the retail release. Seemingly universally no demo or network test supports cloud saves (which isn't unexpected, the saves are valid for 3 days at most on a network test, and a demo is a free trial, not a bought game.)

But basing anything on the Dark Souls demo tells you nothing. It would almost certainly say not supported regardless of what the retail build does.

@Galenmereth They want us to pay because corporations are entitled to charge for services provided. That they previously chose not to charge is no argument that they must never charge.

I'm happy when I can play MK8D online.
I pay €20 a year, and I'm happy.

Everything else I see as bonus.

Simple mind, I know

I don't care what they have to do, DO IT. Cheaters & Hackers are cancer. Here's an idea, GROW UP, and don't cheat. This is why we can't have nice things.

@Aerona The more Nintendo gives, the more ways people complain about what Nintendo gives.

I know I'm in the minority, but I can't think of a single game where losing my saves would be anything more than a minor inconvenience, even my 500+ hour, all modes S+ Splatoon 2 save file. And it's not like our consoles are a ticking bomb ready to explode at any moment.

I'm really hoping this "our daily thing to complain about and never shut up about it" phase passes quickly. We all know the pros and cons of this thing, accept it or move on to something else please.

The Splatoon 2 outfits aren't even trying to hide the fact they only exist because Nintendo needed at least something to make up for the fact that Splatoon 2 is one of the games that would suffer the most from the very same save data loss the Online Service advertises itself as the solution to, and yet are not supported by the very service we're being charged for in the first place.

Besides, I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to get those outfits in the first place. An automatic download would have been greatly appreciated, but that would make way too much sense.

@electrolite77
Now that's what I call editing. You should be hired by the staff.

@PLAYwithGregg
Tell that to the Pokémon Company. Remember the Mew glitch in the first-gen games? Yep. Back in the day, people were supposed to get to a faraway place, or at the very list ship a cartridge, for a character that was already in the game's code to begin with.

The Pokémon franchise alone has kept Mad Catz afloat all these years. Cheaters shouldn't cheat, but companies shouldn't incentivise it either.

@Stroopwafel
Same for me. But when services like the Xbox Live Gold, albeit more expensive, give current-gen games with ownership independent from the subscription, and (on Xbox One at least; not the case on 360) don't charge for save data backup... well, the online component alone suddenly becomes a bit less than enough to justify the fee. If I weren't a Nintendo fan to begin with, not to mention that I wanted to include a friend of mine with the family subscription because he did the same with me with Xbox account sharing, I might have been on the fence for much longer.

@NEStalgia I don't have Nintendo Online, so I can't test (Dead Cells) for myself, but I could have sworn the last time I checked it stated, that it didn't support it. Anyways, I didn't mean to spread misinformation or outdated information.

This does not change the fact though, that the reason given for why games as these won't support cloud-saves is silly and yes, while I agree that the issue with Splatoon is not a concern primarly of cloud-saves, but with the way the games handles and stores this information, it does not change the fact that this should be adressed (I'm not even a Splatoon 2 player myself mind you).

It's not like Splatoon 2 was made by different entitiy, that has nothing to do with Nintendo. Nintendo EAD is very much a core part of their organization, if I am not completely and utterly mistaken. There is a reasonable expectation of ... well, cooperation here. Esp. considering that this is one of their biggest (multiplayer) games in the first place.

@nab1 It's just very disappointing to see, that Nintendo once again could not manage to jump over its own shadow. NES games instead of a robust VC service (let's not even talk about how 20 games/"roms" are really nothing to write home about - in no scenario). Multiplayer games like Splatoon still relying on P2P. Insistence on forcing users to use their smartphone to do basically anything multiplayer-related, even the most basic of basic things like sending a text message. Apparently, no discounts or the likes for subscribers either. Cloud-saves that will only be around as long as ones subscription ... the list goes on.

"accept it or move on to something else please" Why would anyone do that? Complaining is fun and honestly, the decent thing to do if a company is cutting a service it previously provided and is now asking for extra compensation for it. Why would anyone 'shut up and sit down' about it?

You either don't care about any of those issues, which is fine, or you think Nintendo will act on any of that without being pushed to do so... which it won't. It probably won't even act if enough people complain vocally, but it sure as hell won't without any form of outcry.

Again, Nintendo wants to charge for this all of the sudden. A bit of scepticism in regards to this being justified is entirely fair game. And yes, one can move companies to change their policies, just look at all the stuff that went down with lootboxes over the last year and such.

@NEStalgia @MrBlacky
No, you're talking about the Network Test. Most demos dont support saves.

I'm talking about the actual game, preloaded. The fact the Network Test does have the warning while the full game doesn't, pretty much confirms its supported.

Yeah Nintendo's excuses are laughable. You don't short change legit gamers and potential buyers on features and such because of their fear of hackers/cheaters, you ban "them" that cheat. They need to sort the functionality out that way.

Why do people keep comparing it to ps or xbox. Those are 60 per/year services. You are paying $20 for a full year of service with extras. Everyone is complaining about the cloud saves that we didn't even know about until recently. The main point of the online service is to be able to play with your friends.
And for the people complaining about the app, stop. They gave you a way to talk to your friends. We didn't have that in forever.
Stop acting like spoiled kids.

@AlexSora89
I get that. And although I haven't had any other systems then Nintendo systems I know that the service is minimal to say the least.
But for me, I just don't want to bother my girlfriend every time I want to play MK8D with another human being. And I'm willing to pay €20 a year for that. It really is that pragmatic for me.

@Ralek85 The problem is these sort of rants are taking over all of the internet, and it's just pointless to keep repeating the same things everyone who cares about them more than likely already knew before. Personally, I'm just about to quit on all sort of Nintendo news sites at least for a while until this whole thing hopefully blows over and we get back to real news and articles.

> Multiplayer games like Splatoon still relying on P2P.

Please read up more on this. It's the general consensus that MP games with low number of players per team actually benefit from P2P. It's a misconception that just adding "dedicated servers" is unequivocally better.

@JaxonH Exactly!

Which reminds me, I need to cancel my physical preorder and preorder digitally now that I can play it across my 2 systems with cloud saves!

BTW, I did discover one limitation of cloud saves (a very minor one.) It automatically synces UP but does not automatically sync DOWN. So if I load a game on my second system and start the game, if I check the game options it sees that there's a newer save on the cloud, but it will not prompt me or download it when I start the game, the game just creates its own save data if I run it. I have to manually download the cloud save to use the newer one in the cloud. Minor inconvenience, but people should be aware of that.

Technically PS4 is inconsistent with that as well. I recall when I moved to my pro it hadn't synced all the saves yet and let me start the games without checking if the cloud had save data or not and started a new file. So Switch isn't totally unique in that behavior (PS4 does eventually sync it all on its own though. I'm not sure Switch does.)

@electrolite77 Maybe I was expecting discussion about video games instead of a discussion on an optional secondary backup save.

That being said, let’s talk. This must be the first time many people have experienced the birth of an online service for a big company, but I've been working with video games since the birth of Xbox Live. Now, all of these services started off small, in fact, I remember the majority of people complaining about Xbox Live Gold and PS Plus when they first started. Be it about the price, the lack of desired features, or broken infrastructure. That's kinda how a service is going to work. A company will create a service that they did not provide, They will then ask for payment for said service, and then they will use that payment to improve the service. I have heard countless times people saying Nintendo should have delayed it for another year or so to expand the capabilities, but that is unreasonable. Why would they invest more of their own capital on improving a service that isn't being monetized? If you want Nintendo to improve, not paying for the service is the last thing you should do. If you expect improvements, then you should pay for the service and become an online customer, then reach out to Nintendo with your desires. They'll be more willing to listen to an actual customer than a boycotter.

Now, I understand people saying, “vote with your wallets,” but that is impractical in this situation, unless you want to completely cease from buying any Nintendo product in general. The service itself will sell if it is the only way to play Smash Bros online. Most consumers will not even know about the intricacies that we are all complaining about, they will just see that the $20 a year is required for online play, and pay it so they can play. Now, I’m not saying Nintendo’s service is perfect, but what service is? I have complaints of my own, but If we really want to incite change, we need to give constructive feedback to Nintendo about our grievances, and not just complain about it on the internet.

Waaaaaaaaahhhh

@Ralek85 As always Nintendoes what Nintendo PR says Nintendon't.

And yes, Splatoon needs to be fixed. After all this backlash and the fact that another Nintendo team (Tennis) already made the same type of change to coincide with Online, I suspect it will (quietly) happen (unannounced).

I wonder at times if part of this is the whole "the elder is always right" mentality. The Splatoon team was Iwatas personal pet project. Saying they're wrong is probably seen as a slight against Iwata, thus nobody says so and works around them. But the backlash might force them.

Typical Nintendo really, they manufacture their own problems and then do something dumb because they can't/won't fix them

@Stroopwafel
"Those who content, enjoy what they get." (Italian saying)
I'm glad it's like that for you and everyone who has similarly simple needs. I paid up out of desire to give something back to my friend who allowed me to leech off his Xbox account so far, and the NES games are nice. However, should I ever - say - send my Switch to Nintendo for it to get repaired, I want my save data to be safe.
And in all honesty... if me cheating would be unfair towards other Splatoon players... how could losing my progress be fair to me?

@Galenmereth I been a more than just a system developer and I been in this field for 20 years. Your comment is "horseshit". Unless you are a really horrible one. The could save with splatoon is just more than rankings. They can use that save file and edit it and make all kinds of havoc on the servers. This is why Nintendo needs to store everything about Splatoon on the servers like fortnight and many other multiplayer shooter games do. Nintendo really needs to do is fix Splatoon so it is that way your progress is saved and don't have to worry about tampering. But again if you were a developer for 10 years you would have known this right?

This conversation is silly. Who f'ing cares so much about cloud saves? I've never depended on cloud saves for anything and they're just a backup to your local saves. Do people's gaming devices break down so frequently that this is even an issue? I seriously doubt it. We've all been playing games like Splatoon 1 and 2 for a long time with no problem, but now it's suddenly a problem? Talk about whiney, entitled a-holes.

I wholeheartedly agree.

It’s 2018. There is absolutely no valid reason for the inability to backup a save, in any game, ever. This has been the industry standard for way over a decade.

The price of the service doesn’t matter. Stop talking about it. It’s irrelevant. I’d much rather pay 60 bucks for a good service than 20 bucks for something that doesn’t fully accomplish what it was supposed to do. We didn’t ask for a cheap service. We asked for a good one.

Nintendo’s technological ineptitude isn’t even the worst part of these discussions. The worst part are the trolls and apologists who will spout off above and below this post, and tell us that we’re histrionic, immature, etc. for asking for the ability to backup all of our saves.

@AlexSora89
Nice saying!
And I want my save dates to be safe as well. I'm not saying that I like the way how Splatoon doesn't allow cloud saves, I get less motivated to play Splatoon knowing this. And Nintendo could have swooped me off my feet with GameCube games, since that was my first console.

So I'm not thrilled by the service, it doesn't have a wow factor.

But then again €20 for online MK8D, that's ok for me.

@JaxonH BTW, I see now where the confusion came from. Not purely a rumor but the fine print on the eShop page:
"Nintendo Switch Online membership (sold separately) and Nintendo Account required for online play. This game does not support Save Data Cloud backup. Not available in all countries. Internet access required for online features. Terms apply. nintendo.com/switch-online."

(From Dark Souls' page.)

Except Dark Souls supports cloud saves on every other platform including Steam (plus manual file backup on steam...even though there are known issues with certain antivirii corrupting them), so that makes no sense. I'm guessing this either is a copypasta from some other game, or a miscommunication from Bandai, that online data is stored on their servers (it has dedicated servers, so that only makes sense.)

There's still a chance until that's officially updated that Dark Souls indeed lacks cloud saves, but both the preload, and the fact that it supports them on all other platforms tells me that text is erroneous.

The game plagued the absolute most by people abusing it is not getting cloud back ups because people might abuse it. At this point just let us have it. We already know you aren't doing jack to make it any better.

I think that the following line "The statement does not really inspire confidence that Nintendo is planning to resolve the problem" should read "The statement does not really inspire confidence that Nintendo know what they are doing"

Seeing as Splatoon 2 is basically the only thing I play, I’m pretty pissed. I haven’t subscribed yet. I haven’t turned on the Switch since the online service started. Feeling upset.

From what I've heard people who wanna cheat in Splatoon 2 are doing it already. Why not just give us the cloud save? At least let us backup our single player progress, multiplayer level, and the gear we've purchased.

So because 0.1% of people MIGHT use this to cheat in minor ways, and are already doing it without consequence anyways in Splatoon 2 and have been doing it in Pokemon for the past 20 years, EVERYONE gets penalized. It's almost like this online service is a no-effort cash grab. Hmmm...

@JunkRabbit Well the fact that the cloud saves problem for games like Splatoon 2 not being supported is an objective flaw no? Especially since other companies have easily solved this issue. Many of us don't want to lose our hard work put into the game just because Nintendo can't implement the solution to this. That is an objective flaw. I do understand people have their own opinions but some are based on fact, and this is one of those examples where it is. I wanna back up all my saves you know

@Fist_of_Belial Exactly. People need to stop hiding behind the "oh it's just $20" excuse as well

"Nintendo" and "online" don't mix.

I hope this changes one day!

@electrolite77 I think we're on the same page. Maybe a different paragraph of the page, but still around the same area. I think that it is perfectly fine to both give constructive feedback and complain on the internet, however there is a level of toxicity that I think is just outright damaging to the gaming community as a whole.

I personally feel like there are way too many youtube videos and news sites repeatedly covering this issue. Enough is enough. At a certain point it makes the gaming community seem like entitled children. I remember being a kid and playing my SNES and talking to my friends about it. When we talked about games, we just talked about how much fun we were having or how we finally beat Nick Bruiser in Super Punchout. Then some other kid would come up to us and tell us we were babies for playing on Nintendo and to get a real console to play Mortal Kombat with blood (I had both, I just preferred the SNES). Or remember when people were calling Wind Waker "Celda?" People have always whined about Nintendo, and it's no different now. It's just crazy to me to see people who claim to be Nintendo fans trashing the company for every little thing they do. "Cloud saves aren't for every game!" "Your save gets deleted when your subscription runs out!" "Pokemon Let's Go looks too easy!" "There's no wild Pokemon battles!" "Nintendo is charging $80 for cardboard?!" Why can't we just remember that games are for fun and have fun with them?

The $20 a year is to play games online, everything else is extras that are designed to entice consumers. If you don't want to play online, or the extras don't entice you enough, then okay, it's just not for you. The game doesn't have the feature or design you want, then okay, it's not for you, move on to a different game.

Let's just try to work together to turn the toxicity levels down a notch.

Every games need to use cloud saves. No compromise on that

@Yasaal
Actually, I disagree. The fact that there are some that are indifferent to the whole topic makes the whole issue subjective. I am not even certain that you could call it a "flaw", because that a certain few games don't save to the cloud is by design (!), i.e. intentional. Nintendo intends it to be that way. A flaw, by definition, cannot be something intentional. Please note: I am not defending that Nintendo for the decision. I understand that for some it may be a slight inconvenience. They cannot understand why Nintendo decided that they don't want those games to have save games in the cloud. They don't believe the reasons they're giving, or think that those reasons don't feel like they're good enough.

I do not know if what Nintendo is saying is the whole truth, only part of it or just a plain lie. To me me it makes enough sense to be indifferent about the whole (non-)issue though.

And objectively, what are the odds of losing your local game saves if you're careful? I've been a passionate gamer for nearly 35 years. I can't say that I have never lost a game save in my life, but I can say with good conscience that regardless of how much time and effort I had put into a game, I never lost anything of real consequence. After all, playing the game is what's fun about our hobby, so even IF you should lose progress in one of the many games you love (and that's a BIG if), it's not such a life-shattering experience that you can't just start over, especially if you really love the game, trust me. I'm not saying that everyone must see it in such a relaxed manner, just offering a different perspective on things, one that let's you sleep better at night.

And if you still don't believe me that it's really only subjectively an issue, feel free to just believe yourself: You wrote "I wanna back up all my saves you know"... I understand and respect that. But you have the subjectivity right there in your own words...

The problem with Splatoon 2 is that I'm sure they didn't envisioned cloud saves will be a thing, so when they were making the game, they had to couple/wire the rank info into your save file.

Now that they didn't think of that, a migration sounds pretty hard to do. It's sad because if they had a server side player info like in Fortnite, it should be easier to detect cheaters too and improve the QOL experience of the game.

tl;dr Splatoon 2 was not made to be "future-proof" and would now require a substantial amount of work to make it server-side, which is a shame as it's something I wish they had considered when making the game.

@Yorumi
Actually, if it comes to a business transaction there is normally an offer by a company first and on the other side of things there is a customer who checks out what's on offer and decides if this is what they want and if it's worth the asking price to them. If it isn't they walk away and get something else (or nothing).

Of course there are also companies that offer custom soltions for individuals. There you can really demand exactly what you want and get a custom made product (or service). You may have noticed however that custom solutions are MUCH more expensive. Nintendo is also not a company that specializes in custom solutions for individuals. But neither is any of the other gaming companies. In this regard you really expect too much from them. It's just not their business model.

@Yorumi "When it comes to a business transaction you are entitled to get what you want." I don't believe that is true in the slightest. You would be entitled to get what was offered. If I went to McDonalds and ordered a hamburger, but I really wanted a wagyu steak, I would not be entitled to that. However, if McDonalds offered me a hamburger and I accepted the transaction, but was given just the buns, I would be entitled to complain. Now if what you really want is not offered, then you should take your business elsewhere or settle for what is available.

@Yorumi
Well, to me that's just a negative way of tin foil hat thinking, and this has never worked for anyone to be happy and content. It's really not for me. Thing is: I am absolutely certain that Nintendo have discussed this hard and they are aware of the repercussions. This means with absolute certainty that they have their reasons. That's actually enough for me. I doesn't matter if what they're saying are the true reasons or only part of it. It doesn't matter if I believe them or just don't have the imagination and/or background knowledge to imagine the "true" reasons. What matters is that they HAVE their reasons. And they most certainly do. Their choice. Not ours. Our choice is to take it or leave it. If we leave it they may rethink their options, but they don't have to.

Plus: What @Kdaesung said. That's what I mean. He put it so much more elegantly though... (hmmm... hamburgers... )

@Yorumi
Yes, market research. But that comes into play BEFORE the steps I and @Kdaesung outline, and also before your argument and your realization that what Nintendo think a sufficient user base needs (not necessarily WANTS!) is not what YOU desire. These things are not mutually exclusive.

@Yorumi No, I am not trying to say we shouldn't criticize Nintendo. What I am saying is we should provide constructive feedback as a consumer, not repeated hateful complaints online. Listen, I am all for changing the things we don't agree with. Our society is wrought with injustices all around. As people, we need to be the ones to incite change. If we want to make a change, we must go about it the right way. We can't just start bombing buildings hoping the world get's better. It may have worked in Fight Club, but it won't work in the real world. We have to be constructive, not destructive. Build, not destroy. If we want Nintendo or anyone to listen to us, we must have a unified voice. That's all I'm saying. Take it as you will.

@Yorumi
No argument there. And you can be certain that Nintendo have done their homework. And they have made a decision, a compromise for which they have their reasons with absolute certainty. Is it an inconvenience for some? Apparently. Do we know their reasons, MUST we know their reasons? Probably not.

@Yorumi True, but again, a problem with one team is still a problem with that team. If they have special protection, that's an issue. Most of this comes back to their WiiU design. I don't know who was or wasn't involved. If Iwata signed off on it, specifically, nobody will question that. Ever. No matter if they agree with it or not. But still, it's one game, from one team and that team deserves the heat and that game needs the discussion, not the service at large.

@Octane I was just going to say this.

NL should just quit their whining, it's a very generous offer, apparently.

Agreed with the article and have said before, as well as it's other faults, that Nintendo's take on Cloud save data is sub-par compared to the competition, which supports it on all their games.

@Yorumi I'm very confused by your last comment. I don't believe I referenced a phantom group. What I am saying is that we, as fans, should unify and stop arguing. I'm not sure where you got the sense that I was talking about a mysterious group. Anyway, I need to get back to work and then I'm going to go and enjoy some video games with my family. Cheers.

The way people tremble in anxiety over cloud saves on this site has become farcical. I must have got the one Switch that isn't teetering on the brink of inevitable implosion.

Everyones complaining is not going to persuade Nintendo to give you every console and its games for a paltry $20 a year. From the very first Switch presentation, they told everyone the online service would be coming, and that free online play was temporary.

The service may not have EVERYTHING you ever wanted and more, but that is life. We got cloud saves for 95% of games, continued online play, and some NES games. Just because people wanted it to be more, or got their hopes up through internet hype and unrealistic expectations...that is not Nintendo's fault.

The endless (and it really has been) negativity around this makes me wonder how people deal with real problems in their lives.

@Richnj Nah, I prefer this one

We’re still talking about this, eh? Reminds me of when Microsoft said that not all Xbox games would be playable on 360 after announcing Backwards Compatibility , then everyone got mad and the 360 tanked. That did happen, right?

@Yorumi the only difference between Nintendo and the others, including steam, is Nintendo made weird pr noises about cloud saves not being always supported and I've if them is stupidly their flagship online title. Fortnight supports cloud saves in NO platform. Because it's online only. Nobody has ever discussed that, because no weird statements were made. Dark souls was "will it won't it" on steam, too. So steam doesn't support it for every game either.

I'm funny prepared to bring out torches and pitch forks.... i just recommends aiming them at the responsible party, Splatoon devs, and not the collateral damage if nso at large.

@NEStalgia
I'm funny prepared to bring out torches and pitch forks.... i just recommends aiming them at the responsible party, Splatoon devs, and not the collateral damage if nso at large

Nailed it.

I fully agree its unacceptable for any game to not have a backup. Doesn't have to be cloud backups, because for reasons stated that's NOT always the solution. But for those exceptions, the game needs to store server side.

All the games previously reported to not support cloud saves (Dead Cells, NBA 2K, even Dark Souls it's looking like) support them. The service is basically on point. 200 of 202 games of mine backed up. That's on point.

The issue is the Splatoon 2 team. They need to get it together and offer us a solution. Nintendo HQ was correct in excluding the game, because it can be abused. And "but people already hack" isn't an excuse. Low hanging fruit always entices more people to pick it than fruit at the top of the tree you have to climb to get.

And I'm all for standing in unity about that. But when the majority simply use this as a "omg YES! A legit criticism against Nintendo! I'm running with it for all its worth, beat the drums, scream and shout, never letting this go!" it makes level headed people say hold up, thats not reasonable. Ya, there's some issues that need to be resolved, but 2 games not having cloud saves isn't the apocalypse.

If people would tone it down and be more analytical and level headed, more people would be apt to stand up along side them.

Finally someone is saying something!
These issues are definitely fixable, so as a Splatoon player it's really baffling for me how Nintendo didn't anticipate this and solve it beforehand.
Thanks for pointing it out. @Dazza

@Yorumi Well, that's the other thing, we keep chasing the red herring of the wrong problem. The problem is not that cloud saves can be granted exceptions to specific applications. THat's fine, and standard. THe problem is not that cloud saves are not supported for Splatoon 2. That's fine, they shouldn't be. The problem is Splatoon 2 as an application is idiotically storing online player profile data on local storage instead of server-side. Cloud saves shouldn't even be part of this conversation at all because it's the wrong complaint. CLoud saves are behaving precisely as the should.

The problem is Splatoon 2 is effectively broken by storing save data locally on the client. That is no less true now than it was years ago on WiiU when people were scumming right and left.

THe complaints are complaining about the wrong problem. Thus why it's a Splatoon problem. Cloud saves are fine as-is, they're working the way they should be working.

@saintayu dead link?

@HobbitGamer Nice of you not to mention the Xbox One fiasco, where Microsoft announced a whole bunch of nonsense, just like Nintendo did now, they were criticised for it by everyone, and they got rid of it, even though the bad taste has remained in Xbox users' mouths ever since and Microsoft never fully recovered from their initial epic fail this generation. I truly fail to understand why anyone would 'defend' Nintendo for any nonsense they come up with (or, in the case of their new online stuff, don't come up with).

Nintendo does not want you to enjoy playing games, Nintendo wants to make money. They are no different from any other company, because that is the essence of a company: making money. Asking money for something that costs them literally to virtually nothing at all on top of their already ludicrous prices for everything (consoles, games and accessories always cost more than with any other competitor, for no reason other than 'Nintendo') is only part of what gets people so frustrated.

To be fair, 1-2-Switch actually has no save file at all to begin with. Makes it kinda hard to back it up online. And Dead Cells IS supported, I've already backed up my file. Why does that misinformation keep floating around?

@Razer oooooor do like the Xbox and Playstation and have both on system chat and messaging and still have an app.

Since the Switch has sold around 20 million units, and only 5 million units, that means there's 15 million non-japanese players are having to put up with this set up. It makes no sense to cater to only 25% of your fanbase.

No one is asking for the app to go away. They just want on on system solution as well.

@serendipitiful https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/09/guide_nintendo_switch_online_faq_-everything_you_need_to_know-_pricing_cloud_saves_nes_games

I don't know why. All you have to do is go to the front page and click it anyway. I just checked and it's still there.

EDIT: It won't work as a url tagged link for some reason so copy and paste or just scroll down on the main page of this site. I didn't originally put it in as a hot link anyway so I'm not sure why that happened.

@Yorumi Splatoon is the obvious one here. Pokemon, it's just too soon to discuss. We don't know the features, we don't know if it stores on servers, if it supports pokebank, if they'll surprise us with pokebank free for nso subscribers, if the game automatically saves on the Google servers that host let's go just as go does, since it integrates with go. There's a lot we don't know there. And clearly we can't rely on Nintendo Public statements to clear confusion.... They know less than we do.

Animal crossing is purely conjecture. We don't have a title, date, window, it even screenshot. We h have cgi Tom "Capone" Nook sitting ata desk telling us it exists, and that's all. Cloud saves will likely be a year old when we see that game. Id have bet money tennis and arms would not support cloud saves and id have lost my shirt. I'm not prepared to make guesses that far out.

They obviously didn’t spend enough on infrastructure to allow its biggest and most accessed games to utilize this feature. And that is pathetic considering what everyone else offers.

@Agent721 Nah, not infrastructure. Pokemon and Splatoon are huge, and we don't know enough about Pokemon, but it's already been confirmed Smash will support it, and MK8 is still their biggest game by sales and that supports it. Tennis is surprisingly huge, that supports full server-side saves as of Wednesday (actual server side data on top of cloud saves for single player data.) It's not a lack of infrastructure. Eguchi's team figured out ARMS ages ago. This is Nogami and company in the Squid Lab having their heads up their beaks, and Pokemon doing the cash grab thing Pokemon has always done (but we also don't know for sure that's true yet without knowing how online is handled.) Smash, Tennis,and Kart already will load infrastructure heavily enough.

@c2017nlifemedia The scrapped plans before the console even released for Xbox One didn’t prevent me from buying and enjoying one. I didn’t use that comparison because they never went through with it. I used the BC on 360 because it’s very similar. Bringing up another crappy situation isn’t a defense of Nintendo. Besides, it was largely retailers and publishers that influenced the Xbox One change, not consumers.

Short of Starfox 64, Joycons, and the Switch’s Pro Controller, I don’t recall all of Nintendo’s stuff costing more. Especially consoles.

@Galenmereth I did some research. Turns out that "free elsewhere" is not a valid reason for expecting a service to be free.

@NintendoFan4Lyf Tell me more? I'm actually completely lost on how that works.

@Yorumi I was thinking of launch prices for items compared to competitors really, which have always seemed lower. Rightly so, the other systems have had more added value (in my mind). I think a big portion of the “evergreen” title pricing is continued demand. Isn’t Chibi Robo first party? Those DS games are $6 New now.
I wouldn’t buy those NES controllers for such limited use; I didn’t buy an elite Xbox One controller for $150 either, but I’m getting the Pokeball with Let’s Go.

I get that people are upset because they feel expectations aren’t being met, and unreasonable things are being given for the money asked. I’m just wondering where all this concern was in the 18 months leading up to this week’s launch. Sort of a “Why didn’t people speak up then” feeling? Does that make sense? I don’t begrudge anyone for feeling how they’re gonna feel, or using their money one way or another. We all have own definitions of value.

That being said, some folks have taken this to a new level. Once any of us stop being civil and start throwing around catch phrases and denigrations, it just doesn’t do anything constructive.

@NEStalgia I think you hit the nail on the head sir. Thanks for that.

I don't have Splatoon 2 anymore and I don't intend to play the Let's Go games so NSO is fine in my opinion. Does what I want it to for the asking price. I do hold some contempt against Splatoon though for being the harbinger of this issue tho. Hopefully they do fix it at some point, quietly or on full blast.

@Galenmereth Perhaps we should see what basic first-order predicate logic says.

@Stroopwafel
Thanks, but it's nothing special - we have better proverbs than that. The saying is sometimes considered to be an Italian equivalent to "beggars can't be choosers", but the meaning is rather different.
Anyway, good to see you enjoy the service for what it is!

@JunkRabbit Just what I expected, a statement telling me things like "this doesn't happen" and "why not start over" :/

That's not a real solution in any way, shape or form. I'm paying for cloud saves, and we want our money's value. Heck, people are saying it's a $20 service for each issue brought up, I highly doubt it's even worth that much but that's a different story. The current issue here is the "why not start over" statement. See, we all love games. But as gamers we don't like seeing our hard work go to the bin especially when there's an alternative and a way to save that progress right there. To say that is to go into hardcore damage control mode.

As for your subjective-objective statement, You're right

I know this is the fashionable thing to complain about right now, but as someone who’s been gaming religiously since ~1987 (and incidentally has not once lost a save file), I honestly can’t believe that this is what gaming has come to. Really? We’re throwing a tantrum over save-state backups? Gross.

It’s impossible for me to believe that A) anything beyond a tiny sliver of a minority of gamers actually NEEDS to access save backups, and B) losing a save file on a game that you’ve paid good money for with the singular purpose of PLAYING THE GAME is enough of a tragedy that the prospect of having to play it again and rebuild a save file is actually bad/a worthy cause of this much widespread outrage.

I also reject outright the popular theory that Nintendo lack the ability to apply knowledge and expertise in this area. I think the truth is that they’re just more focused on and interested in their core business of producing games, and that they, like me, know that very few people will ever actually suffer a catostrophic loss of save data. At the end of the day they’re an old-school developer, and they know that the vast majority of their customers are old-school gamers, and I’m positive that they view this topic as an overblown distraction from actual gaming.

Anyway, I know I’ll get crapped on for this post, but oh well. I’ll just be over here happily playing games, and willingly replaying them, and not worrying about the outside chance that I might accidentally stumble into a good excuse to replay them yet again. And hey, since saying you’re a “developer” if some sort seems to add credibility to these types of posts, I’m a web dev and this sort of thing is right up my alley.

@Yasaal Damage control? No. I’d venture that most people don’t actually care about this as much as the people in comment sections like this one say they do, and that they’re sincere in their belief that having to start over in a game isn’t actually a problem, or at least not a big one. It’s legitimately frustrating that taking the opposing position to any given anti-Nintendo argument is always dismissed as “blind fanboyism.” None of us have a vested interest in protecting Nintendo’s image, we actually just don’t agree with you. Nothing nefarious about it.

Moreover, I delete save files and replay games all the time. I’ve never known a single person who plays games that doesn’t do that with at least some of their games. The only people who seem to care all that much are the ones that mostly just play one game, usually something online and competitive, where half the point is obtaining the gratification that comes from displaying your status and progression to other players and either gaining their respect or making them feel inferior.

@Galenmereth It literally is a service. It meets that definition as much as most other communications services do. Whether or not you personally define it as “noteworthy” isn’t really relevant. If you don’t think it’s worth the money, don’t buy in. That’s the best way to communicate your feelings directly to Nintendo.

@chardir Do you lose a lot of save data? Just curious what the actual impact is on you personally.

@Fist_of_Belial “on the matter of the chances of loosing save data - the chance exists and that's all that matters. The probability is a moot point because it WILL happen to someone.”

The probability of it happening is a completely valid thing to base reactions on. It’s not moot. The chance exists that at least some people will drown. Should all clothes come with equipped with a built-in inflation device? Honestly, I think the magnitude of the outrage over something like this should actually be commensurate with the actual severity and frequency of the problem. People shouldn’t automatically launch into mass indignation and hysteria because of “a chance.”

“actual cheaters can do whatever they want (also thanks to Nintendo's ineptitude in designing the Switch in such a way that makes hacking it so ridiculously easy).“

Switch is vulnerable to hacking because of a blind-spot in the design of its Tegra processor. So, that’s on Nvidia, not Nintendo. Sorry to disappoint you.

I already have 400 something hours in Splatoon 2 and if for some reason I loose it all, so help me Nintendo... Also SMASH Ultimate needs cloud saves as well, right now the game is confirmed to not have them. Like the article states it should be on Nintendo to find a better way to fight cheating, simply blocking save data is simply pretending to fix a problem by not addressing it at all. Hacking already happens in Splatoon even without cloud saves so Nintendo needs to seriously rethink this for the community. I would honestly rather have cloud saves than not have them given their reasoning.

@geordie can I jump up and punch the air as the frame freezes?

After the trial ends, I'm just going to wait until Smash launches and see how good their net code is before purchasing a year of NSO. That's the only game I see myself playing online on my Switch until Animal Crossing, and even then I'm not sure. I view my Switch as a Nintendo games/local multiplayer/handheld indie system. I play my online games on Steam, where cloud saves, sales/discounts, and online multiplayer are free. I really don't get how you console folks justify $60 a year, especially PlayStation + since you don't even get free cloud saves like on Xbox. xD

@Deanster101 of course you can 😂

@NintendoFan4Lyf How would we go about playing the Famicom games? Does that require a second account and another NSO subscription?

After the vitriol regarding the Boy with Cancer who wanted to play a game, I find it mad that you people demand something from Nintendo.

I mean honestly a dying child wants a sneak peak and you all lose your minds. Then you all don't get the save system you want and act like the most entitled people in the world.

So scared of the loss of save games that represent a few hours of your life. Same crowd who literally angry mobbed a dying child. The lot of you should be shot.

@Mallow It's the Glass Half Empty Crew™

It's almost like they got the Switch out of the box not thinking about how much enjoyment they'll get out of this, but what if it breaks? When are the servers going to go down? What happened to sticking a game on and unwinding after a hard day or while having a sesh with your friends and family? Having fun?

I just can't take gaming this seriously. Over the past 3 years I've seen so many mass meltdowns like this and I just don't get it, I look on in puzzlement. Be it Splatoon not having voice chat or being light in content (still bought it dirt cheap and new content dropped constantly, result!), Starfox (which I bought and loved), Federation Force (all I can say is wow, what a massive overreaction), believing every little bit of gossip on the NX, that Metroid 2 remake that got stopped - Nintendo's been pulling projects forever, why act shocked now?

I initially came to this site for news, now I just come to watch the drama.

@BAN Great posts...your thoughts echo mine on this.

@nab1 Well, first of all, if this blows over, something else comes around. It's the nature of the beast.

You may dislike any such form of online outrage (quite understandbly in this Trumpian day and age to be quite frank and generally speaking), but your explicit argument, that outrage is pointless, is factually wrong. It might be pointless in this instance and maybe even by and large on anything Nintendo related, but the notion, that online outrage cannot possibly have any impact, is factually wrong.

There are countless examples of this ... I mean how about you ask James Gunn how he feels about this? (Please don't take this as an endorsement of what went down, but it DID go down). For a more gaming-related and recent incident, how about NBA 2K18’s microtransactions? That happened as well, yes indeed.

"Please read up more on this. It's the general consensus that MP games with low number of players per team actually benefit from P2P. It's a misconception that just adding "dedicated servers" is unequivocally better."

Well, first off, congratz on reframing my remarks. I see Trump's lesson are becoming more ingrained by the minute ... =( Anyways, even assuming that P2P is actually better for Splatoon, it does in no way reflect on my actual question: Why are we all of the sudden supposed to pay for it? It's one thing to pay for dedicated servers, as those do incur actually significants costs for big games, P2P is a different thing altogether though.

Now, since you did not provide any source for your claim in regards to P2P superiority for a game like Splatoon 2, I can only point out, that no, I have no professional insight here (unlike you?) but to my knowledge, the dedicated-server approach is - by which degree of consensus I have no possible way whatsoever to ascertaining - associated with:
lower latency and tighter security.

Now, we know the former is always crucial in any shooter and the latter, well, also always a concern, esp. since there is by various accounts a significant problem in Splatoon 2 with player-sided manipulations right now, which Nintendo sofar as has not addressed adequately, at least not afaik.

Point being, they are now asking money for what used to be a free service. Shortcomings that might have been acceptable a week ago, no longer are. That is not pointlessly complaining, but pointing out actual issues, that are completely legitimately grievances. If that is something that triggers you - and I don't mean to be an a** here - I have to genuinely wonder, what in gods name you are doing online at all? Oo

Because, newsflash, the internet is full of subjects like these and plenty of them are actual less legitimate and most likely way more pointless. If THIS draws yout disdain ... oh boy ^^

@Richnj You need to realize that Nintendo doesn't see Japan as "25% of its fan base". Nintendo see's Japan as the market it caters too, Nintendo is and always has been a Japan first company, they cater to that market before ours...

They will even pay for games to be published only in their home market and those games won't be sold to us, or we'd wait over a year for them.

Nintendo doesn't do R&D in the West to find out what we like so then they can cater to our needs...

Nintendo does that in Japan... The games they make appeal mainly to their own market... Everything they do appeals to their own market... If we want to join THEIR FUN... We can.

My friend from Japan said this to me...

"Why would i want to chat through my console when i have my phone for that".

He actually thinks you are all dumb for wanting voice chat on your console like you need to talk into every machine you own...

He found our Alexa, Siri and all this voice command communication funny and retarded...

If he finds it funny and retarded, if he says many in Japan find chatting through consoles funny and retarded...

Don't you think Nintendo would also find it funny and retarded to chat through your console when you have a phone for that....

@NEStalgia That's a good point and fits well with my layman understanding of how Japanese companies are run (my aunt used to work for a big one for many years, so I do have in fact some insight as it happens ^^).

Obviously though, not all Japanese companies operate identicial, even if Japan prizes itself on its homogeneity on many levels, which to be fair is fairly unique for one of the most industrialized nations in the world (just to provide one example, not even 2% of population are afaik foreigners, which is insanely low for a major OECD country, the migration policy of Japan is fascinating research subject btw, really worth reading up on and can really help one understand their society better, case in point the concepts of Honne orTatemae).

Anyways, I agree, it needs to be addressed and if it does, it will most likely not be a major X.0 update announced with much fanfare, but more along the lines of "more stability" ^^ Which in the end is not what matters of course. I do hope the backlash will succeed in this regard. It's in my view for Nintendo's own good.

@BAN That's a huge assumption right there. I don't want to keep my ranks for honour or making people feel inferior, what's that got to do with me wanting to back my saves up to the cloud (which is what I paid for in the first place???). I'm keeping them safe because I spent time and effort into it, and unlike those people who can replay over and over again either voluntarily or involuntarily I don't prefer it. And neither do the many people who are complaining about this (and being brandished as haters in some places like Twitter). Not everyone has the time to play the game all over again just because Nintendo is incompetent to solve the problem rather than create a new one. Sure, some people like deleting and replaying again as you said, but that's not everyone. And it's not a minority either.

As mentioned, rather than create a solution to the problem, Nintendo is creating another problem and people are defending them on this. You definitely aren't but I can't say that to the group of people who are calling us haters just because Ninty did something wrong :/

@Razer I think this is lost on some people. Nintendo is a very Japan-centric company despite their success in the west, always has been, always will be. There are thousands of products that release in Japan which never leave their shores but still enjoy success. Xbox is an American console catering mainly to American tastes, Sony with the PS3 and PS4 are more geared to a western market, which explains why the PS4 hasn't done so well in Japan. I am curious as to the Japanese standpoint on this, but I doubt they're making as much of a fuss.

@Yasaal what you have to remember is some people are indifferent either way, it's no big deal to them, they're not defending, they're not attacking, they just don't care as much. I fall into that category as I believe BAN does too. It's not some major life-changing purchase, it's just how you play a form of leisure activity.

@WiltonRoots Makes sense but by the huge assumption he makes and the way he worded his thoughts I doubt he's thinking like you are 🤔

@Yasaal Well we all structure our sentences differently, which is what makes language an amazing thing, I think there was a healthy dose of sarcasm in the way he spoke...it's like when I talk to my friends, we tear each other to pieces and make each other question our lives all the time just for fun.

@WiltonRoots dude i should have worked it out myself, i played Iruna for 4 odd years with loads of Asian players, among them many from Japan as that's where the game was developed.

Japan LOVES mobile, to them.that is their PC's... PC's never got big in Japan outside of work space, most homes still didn't have them, but phones? Their HUGE especially smart phones from the last 7 or so years...

To them that is their Computers... I mean i cannot actually overstate the cultural impact mobile phone technology had on them...

Its the same as PC's to us...

So for them it's totally stupid to even suggest NOT doing voice chat through a phone app...

This isn't just prominent in Japan but most of Asia too, they LOVE mobile phones...

I mean the mobile phone games they have there is 10 years ahead of the crap we get here... I actually played Iruna for 4 years... Full time mmorpg on my mobile phone... Like i was playing WoW...

There is nothing that genuinely comes close to that in any western mobile phone game...

@Razer When I went to Tokyo in the 90s I could see how much bigger the mobile market was than here, it was already massive back then...their phones were well ahead of what we had here and were models that never got released in the west. As a people they are always on the move or working and home space is a fraction of what we have in their big cities, to have a big black slab under their television to play games is actually a hindrance. Hence why something like the Switch exists.

@WiltonRoots Exactly! Our problem is that we are unable to fathom that our way of doing things isn't the "go too" way for other parts of the world. We want voice chat through the device we are using at the time to be the standard for all new devices especially within this space but others don't see it that way.

@Yorumi because in a way, one could argue that it is a superiority complex. They want to sell us their products but they have an outright refusal to adopt our products.

Their refusal to adopt western methods simply comes from the standpoint of thinking theirs is better than ours...

Even Japanese companies that start catering more towards the west get shunned by Japan in a way... Look at Sony... Globally successful but barely holding on at home.

It's how it's always been in Japan to be honest...

"You can buy our stuff and enjoy it the way we do or don't buy our stuff, but we will not buy your stuff, except for Apple... We'll buy Apple..."

@Yorumi and again... Look at Apple, their more like Nintendo than any other company i know... Just an American version. Totally catered for their own market...

Thing is their right too... Who can argue with them? Its their choice after all... We can't force them to adopt western methods but at the same time we realllllly want their stuff...

They make Manga, Anime, Video Games and some awesome history with samurai and ninja... Both really popular in the west and in their own nation...

We want their stuff, always have done, but if they don't want ours for whatever reason... All we can do is shrug and carry on.

All I ask is to add more systems to the online nes component and with ransoms. Using discord isn’t bad but I’d like to be able to communicate better from the system itself.

@pyramid_style but this is the point... In Japan they think that communication should be done through a phone and that communication through the gaming system is backwards and not user friendly.

Exactly the same way we think its stupid NOT to have it... They think its stupid too have it.

Now knowing this and that Nintendo are a Japan first company, what do you think their gonna do?

@razer I still think they will add messaging at a later time whether it’s through the app or the system itself. Good point though.

@pyramid_style i think thats exactly what will happen...

Messaging with friends and people u played with as well as party lobbies + increasrd support will all be done through the App.

Who honestly cares about online rankings? They are meaningless.

@Yorumi It's a difficult one for me to answer as I don't really care about voice chat, as it's something that only came to the forefront when I didn't have time for games at all due to my workload (6th-7th gen).

My experience of Japan is that they are an island nation, much like Britain, they think of themselves first and foremost and everything else is an afterthought. That mentality extends to most companies in the country. I get the impression from Nintendo that as long as the customers in Japan are happy and that they can secure Japan as the main outlet for videogames, they'll be happy. Any other regions are just a bonus after that.

If you ask me; This entire service has been a mix of good and bad. On the good side, it is nice to have cloud saves (for most games) and having NES games with online packed in. And even though a certain group of people will moan, I actually am fine with the £17.99 a year deal. Compared to the nonsense Sony charges which is practically for the same thing, it's way cheaper.
The bad though is games like Splatoon 2 not supporting Cloud Saves. I don't want to judge Animal Crossing or Pokemon Let's Go yet as they are not out yet but Splatoon 2 has no excuse. There's so many ways they could work around this problem like forcing the game to save to a cloud storage so you can't save scum and by doing what Mario Tennis Aces does and making all online rankings be tied to your account and not your system.
Of course, there's also the stupid restriction of not being allowed to play the NES games for more than 7 days without connecting online, to me this isn't gonna be a major issue as Wifi Hotspots are everywhere, even on our smartphones, but why does this exist? It feels so completely un-needed.
What's worse is all these problems can be easily fixed, we can only hope they do.

@NintendoFan4Lyf Well aren't you a gift.
I actually already had a japanese profile made since I know some japanese. Didn't realize the nes games were all under a single application!
Thanks for the help.

@Stuffgamer1 I had to scroll a long way down to finally find someone who was pointing this out. For the article's author: 1-2 Switch does NOT support cloud saves, because 1-2 Switch does not support LOCAL SAVES either.

@shauntu I guess nobody noticed 'cause they either never got the game or ditched it ages ago.

I am starting a new campaign....

#BringBackThomas #ThomasNL4Life

@Fist_of_Belial Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

@electrolite77 Yep.