Nintendo Confirms Free-To-Play Games Can Be Played Without Switch Online Membership

That’s terrible, as I now have nothing to complain about!

@Bondi_Surfer there is still the lack of snes games on the program and the fact you gotta pay for online, except f2p.

Woot, awesome. Hopefully Microsoft will finally follow.

Tons of people (including myself) still pay for PS+ even if we can play F2P games for free. Nintendo just needs to Make compelling online games.

Great news for people waiting for WarFrame on Switch

Gotta admit, the online play was never an issue for me, as I play local multiplayer 99% of the time. That said, the cloud saves has become less necessary in my eyes, and NES games aren't enough of an incentive to get the online service yet. Maybe when Pokémon 2019 comes out.

Everyone on Switch will be playing Fortnite, Splatoon and MarioKart will be losing population.

Guess I'll play Fortnite, Paladins and offline games for a long time. I don't play Splatoon and MK8 anymore. No reason for me to have a subscription.

I find it more ironic we have to pay to play games we already have to pay for.

Good ol' Nintendo, confirming news we already knew about their own service because all the other companies decided to tell everyone at a more reasonable time.

OH NO! How dare they? The Nintendo Online crap is crappier then ever cause now KIDS DON'T HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY FORNITE! Or something. I was trying to make a joke at the expense of those who will complain about anything Nintendo does regarding the online service, but now I may have just given them ammo.

@Mailman That honestly doesn't have much to do with how nintendo is making some of their games "Free To Start". The whole Sony and Nintendo not needing a membership to play F2P games on their platforms is just how Japan views F2P games and how they should be treated.

@edgedino Yeah but Nintendo's online offerings have been way behind the competition that has charged for years to build their networks. Games like Splatoon 2 have largely used peer to peer networking that can have it's cons such as higher latency, difficult to stop hackers and cheaters, and one persons slow network connection can affect others. It will take time but they will get there. And the price is not bad at all in my opinion. $18 for an individual or less than $5 each if you can get six friends to join for a year. Both Microsoft and Sony want $50 for a year, but offer more current sometimes good, sometimes bad membership games. Although I hate how Sony doesn't allow you to buy on a sale free games you received monthly, so if your membership expires you'd have to pay full retail to play the game outside of a membership. Microsoft has been building theirs since 2002 and has a lot of advantages being built over the last 16 years. I like how they offer 360 games that you can keep if your subscription expires. It would be nice though if Nintendo added SNES and N64 (or possibly Gamecube) titles to their subscription plan over time.

@Agramonte Wait, Microsoft actually requires Gold to play games that are freely available anywhere else? Are they just absolutely intent on making their consoles seem inferior to any half-decent PC? For Pete's sake...

@Masurao you're right. Nintendo should have probably started charging for online a long time ago. They also should have set up a decent online infrastructure and offered a service that fans would be happy to pay for rather than what they are offering (unreliable p2p, cloud saves that do not work for several high profile games, nes games that most people couldn't care less about, ridiculously convoluted voice chat).

@electrolite77 yeah, I don't get what they think they are proving with ridiculous hyperbolic strawman comments like that.

"Do you think this could draw players away from Nintendo's own paid online multiplayer experiences?"

laughs in Japanese

This just means split community on the Switch. They should make it so that regardless of the game, if it's online then you have to have the online membership.

@tedko Oh please. It's not like a vast majority of those complaining have any good reasons. Yeah, it's kind of crap that you now have to pay for online multiplayer, but hey, maybe now that there's money flow meant for Nintendo's servers things will improve. But nearly all the complaints I see are from people being petty about that or overreacting to a poorly translated FAQ or coming up with scenarios that would never happen.

Is it really going to be so hard to pay $20 a year? If I was homeless and without a job I'd still be able to manage $20 a year. Is it really that hard to get an internet connection where you live? Well then that's not really Nintendo's fault and you probably wouldn't be using the service anyway.

Does no one remember needing to pay for Xbox Live just to watch Netflix on their 360? Or the joke that was the PSN before the PS4? And heck, even Nintendo's multiplayer servers aren't as bad as people like to say. Last time I had any issues with any online multiplayer game from Nintendo was Super Smash Bros Brawl. You know, 10 years ago.

Eh, but what do the complainers care about this stuff? More fun to just complain, right?

@Nincompoop

Based on what evidence fella?,the posts of a vocal minority's opinions on a video game thread.

Yes sounds like a reasonable assumption to make.

Alright, good! Another reason not to pay the online service. We should agree not to pay until they decide to improve it drastically...
At least give us games from other generations, come on Nintendo! Nobody is going to pay to have NES games again...
Really guys, don't pay yet! Let's show Nintendo they have to improve the service a lot if they want our money! That's the only possible way to let them know...

@BenRK To justify your complaining about other people complaining you list a number of faults with other companies services. I wonder why those faults changed?

What I am loving most about dedicated Ninty sites atm is how the pro online argument is now purely 'its cheep'.

Fortnite, Paladins, Arena of Valor, Warframe, Elder Scrolls Legends, Brawlhalla.
While you won't be able to play the big N games (Splatoon, Smash, MK8, Mario Tennis etc.) it's still a pretty good lineup.

This is gonna hurt the online service. It will be much harder to justify the subscription for a lot of people if half the online games on Switch don't require the online subscription.

Unlike all the Nintendo haters, I don't think that's a good thing.

SO PlayStation will let you play free to play games WITHOUT PS+, Nintendo will let you play free to play games WITHOUT Nintendo Online Network but Microsoft still make you pay for XBOX LIVE Gold to play free to play games, MS need to get with the game (no pun intended)

Well, I've read the sentence once, twice, three times.
It says "Some games, just as Fortnite..."
Why do you think this means all (!) F2P games can be played without the Nintendo Switch online service? Though this would surely make sense Nintendo does not use the wording "F2P games" but "Some games". Quite a difference in my opinion.

I'm not entirely sure, but if I would guess, I would say these are bad news and Nintendo sucks until I get exactly what I want from them.🤔

@Mailman
But I don't like how Paladins or Fortnite play and I can afford 20 bucks once a year to play the games online, I like to play.🤷‍♂️

Thank goodness. I won't need to get the terrible online service now.

What is annoying is that payed for games like Rocket League, which don't even use Nintendos servers, will be locked behind Nintendo's online service.

Free-to-play games are virtual shops, where both the shop keeper and mall management (Nintendo) want as many people to enter, even if they don't buy anything, just so it looks lively and exciting.

If something is free, YOU are the product.

Does anyone else find this situation a bit odd? Don't pay anything for this game and the online play is free... Pay £50 for this game and you also have to pay extra to play it online.

How did it get to to the point where people voluntarily hand money over to companies for something that is easily paid for in the initial price? Not only that, they also shout people down for going against it with comments like "it's only $20, get a job loser!" Without realising they're the problem by just bending over and doing what they're told. It probably means that games like metroid prime 4 will require the sub with some shoehorned shinanagans as well. Shame, we're definitely approaching my stop on the gaming train. It's probably my last generation.

$20 a year isn't unreasonable when there are other benefits included with online multiplayer. The fact they haven't gone the Microsoft route and locked everything up says something, as does the fact they are not charging $50-60 a year. Also lost in the conversation is the fact that Nintendo is still one of the few companies creating local co-op experiences.

the maths has spoken. 30 nes games at launch plus 3 a month going forward. thats 60 retro games in the first year alone. were in the less than 40 pence a game zone here. I am going to go live on a boat in a couple weeks with internet once a week (perfect for keeping the games active) and I will happily pay 20 pound for a years sub and not even go online. sorry rocket league, love ya but the skills is gonna drop off....

anyway, if you cannot afford 20 quid a year you should prob think about a cheaper hobby, and changing your name to Kenny...

@Pod You are 100% correct. Fortnite isn't free or free to play. Fortnite is pay to win. Also a simple reason why I don't play trash like Fortnite.

I wish it was the other way around

The problem with this article is that Nintendo’s statement says nothing about free to play being the reason why some games will not require the paid service to play online. That is 100% the invention of the article’s author. Nintendo only sited Fortnite as an example.

More likely the distinction is games that use Nintendo’s servers will require the fee. Fortnite uses Epic’s own servers don’t forget.

Also sanderv, whatever you think of Fortnite it is not play to win. Money spent can only get you cosmetic items.

If Nintendo some day spin up some dedicated servers for their first party games I may well take to plunge but peer-to-peer has proved just flaky enough to drive us any form long term engagement with Nintendos multiplayer

@sanderev Everything in fortnite's shop is cosmetic...all the weapons, ammo, items, shields etch. are all randomly thrown onto the map for anyone to find. None of the cosmetics change the hitboxes of your character or gives any gameplay advantage at all. Its just there if ya wanna look cool, weird, cute or whatever.

Wow cry babies crying about 20 bucks a year.same thing others have been doing.o xbox gives 3 free games a month.so. does Sony.Sony gives 3 for ps3 no one plays anymore.and 3 for ps4.point is if u can't afford 20 a year you shouldn't have a switch.I spent 100 bucks on preordering it. 100 bucks gets me 5 years of service.

@Slim1999
It's not about coughing up the low price. It's about value. Nintendo online service doesn't offer enough value - even at $20. Adults earning their own money generally don't like feeling ripped off. It's principle more than anything. Just an unreasonable Nintendo tax.

We vote with our wallets anyway. I think this is going to harm online play and make lobbies more empty.

I surprised how many people are unhappy with Nintendo’s online service. Could it be better? Sure. Does it seem to be worth $19.99 a year (or in my case $11.66 a year)? Yes! It’s a 3rd of the price of competing services and fans say it offers 1/3 of the features so it seems about even to me.

@Slim1999 @subpopz I fully agree...i really hate to throw out the "NINTENDOOOOOM" meme...but it really does feel like this is what everyone shouts and throws Nintendo hate when they do anything. It is honestly getting to the point where i just dont even want to bother with the comments section or forums anymore.
We have known since the launch of the switch online would eventually cost...it was supposed to cost us fall last year...we have gotten what is essentially almost 2 years of a free service {more if you count the Wii, DS, Wii U and 3DS all had free as well}
I am about to spend 35 bucks to get me...and 7 other friends online for a full year...When I went in for me and my friend when xbox live first came, out it set me back 60 bucks i think it was. People seem to forget all these services they wanna compare this to have been literally going at this for about 10ish years now...you want messaging, voice chat lobbies all this other stuff...it costs money to develop
As far as the whole Nintendo is tone def argument...when it comes to messaging and voice chat...I don't know anyone who dosent use texting with there phones or any number of voice chat services out there {that are free also} skype, discored, team speak, to name a few, to voice chat instead with
20 bucks for you or 35 for you and up to 7 people for a year of online play{which mind you IS WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR!!} and also getting cloud saves {I do wish there was a way to do local backups but even that is a pain at times} just cause you may or may not loose the cloud saves when your sub runs out...dosent mean your systems saves are gone...I swear people are stupid with that argument, and 20+ NES games that you can play ONLINE and wherever you want. {again if you cant get online with a portable system once a week...ummm what?} What kills me the most is the biggest complaint you can go back any where and see people complaining about how they don't wanna have to buy these games for the millionth time and blah blah blah...
TL;DR ...Shut the hell up...seriously there are people that sub 15 to 30 bucks a month for final fantasy 14 a month {I am one of those people} That is one game with no voice chat, no freebies, nothing...you pay to play the game online that's what they offer that's what you get...Stop being entitled because you think 20 bucks is to much...If that is to much then im sorry but get a diffrent job, or get a job, rework your bills...if you feel attacked that Nintendo wants to charge for something they have provided for free for the last what...12 years {Wii launch} then I dont know what to tell ya
{end rant...}

@subpopz

I can understand and respect your point of view. You've outlined well why it has value for you. I think many people are split on this and I hope Nintendo will improve the service over the coming months so I feel happy to pay up.

I just don't like to be called a crybaby and expected to cough-up because its only $20 - just for voicing a few concerns about it. NES games are well before my time and I have no nostalgia for them, the mobile app is the same functionality as the current one, save data is held hostage with no local backup. I'm not even sure if the online servers are going to be improved with this money..

@MichaelHarvey Just because games are "before your time" dosent mean they do not hold any value. I have seen alot of people throw the word nostalgia around as if thats the only reason any game thats older then 2 hours is loved and its actually a bad game because "nostalgia glasses". As for the servers improving I fully believe if anyone has any issues with the online of the switch it is there internet I play splatoon, rocket league, DOOM, fortnite as well as several others...between those games I have over 1000 hours and have not had a single D/C outside of my internet hiccuping or splatfest matchmaking being oddly horrible while there normal matchmaking is fine.

@SladeStrife Has it been confirmed how the family membership will work? Will you really be able to split the cost with any 7 people on 7 different consoles? I genuinely want to know if Nintendo has clarified this because I haven't heard anything yet.

@MichaelHarvey Yeah, these comment sections have gotten rather toxic. Ironically it seems that the people defending Nintendo have been the most vitriolic, lashing at anyone expressing disappointment.

I just hope that everyone votes with their wallet, that everyone who isn't satisfied with what is being offered actually does not sign up for it.

@tedko
It is on there FAQ the person that is the "head" of the family has to pay the full 35 but you can always just ask for a couple of bucks from your friends or whatever. I am personally just paying the 35 because we all play splattatatatatatatoon and monster hunter as well as a few others games together and 15 bucks more is a small price to pay to get us all online with the added benefit of beating my friends butt who lives in California at pro wrestling and tecmobowl haha
But as far as I can read there is no limits to location, separate switches or limits on the NES games or playing online at the same time its as if everyone had there own memberships.

@subpopz Has Nintendo confirmed how the family membership will work? I genuinely want to know because I have not heard any clarification on this.

@SladeStrife OK. Thanks

Edit: I asked subpopz also before seeing your response.

And if it is true that there won't be any other restrictions on the family membership then that's great!

@Nebnosneh Totally agree.

@electrolite77 Point being that nothing is going to be perfect. Point being that Nintendo has to start somewhere. Same thing happened to Sony, same thing happened to Microsoft. The only difference is Nintendo was too proud to do it right for years. Now that they're trying to improve things, people complain, and looking at the complaints, it really just boils down to people not wanting to spend $20.

Yeah, ok, cool, if you don't want to spend the money, don't. If you don't think it's worth it, don't pay for it. Is it kind of dumb that a free to play game doesn't require it? Eh, I can see it either way. Is it going to split the user base and spell doom? No, that would be stupid. No one (that can think for a minute) will tell you that you are required to pay this subscription, but don't go around spelling doom and gloom just because you didn't get a copy of Breath of the Wild with your $20 a year.

@CanisWolfred Yeah mostly. They crazy

Well a GTX1060 (6G) is the price of an X1 and you still need the rest of the box. Some just get the X1 and call it a day.

Microsoft gets paid either way - I guess why they do not care. But maybe this will make them think this over.

@SladeStrife
I think we've established that value is subjective. What is valuable to you may not be valuable to me. I have no interest to play a load of old games designed for inferior hardware of the 1980s. We shall see the numbers that sign up to the online service anyway. I think Nintendo are going to kill the lobbies for many games because their implementation for online is not a good value proposition for most people.

@electrolite77 Also, do you understand what the definition of "straw man" is? Because that's kind of what you're doing when you point at people and say "straw man" as opposed to trying to make a point.

@MichaelHarvey
Again though it is part of the package just because you have no taste {I uhhh...I mean} just because you don't want what is for offer...again the online gaming is what you are paying for the rest are toppings and the cherry...dosent mean it dosent have value.
If you buy the $20 service you still get online gaming, cloud saves, NES games, and whatever random deals they throw out. if you dont want any of that dont pay but saying its not enough or has no value is stupid.

@SladeStrife , you are so right. The whiners are back complaining stupid stuff yet again.

@tedko
Agreed tedko. I wish people could respect others points of view. We are not the Church of Nintendo and this is not a fan site - it's a Nintendo news site. I do respect people that put their point of view in a positive way of why they think Nintendo online service is good for them though.

@electrolite77
"This is like of a straw man best of. "
Are we talking about your own post....

@SladeStrife @ekwcll
Value is decided by customers. You say its valuable. I don't. This has no value to me.

The shock that people have different tastes.. I hope I haven't outstayed my welcome on NintendoLife for my contrary views.

@ekwcll
I really am tired of it...no matter what its always negative. Saw people screaming about Splatoon 2 being a dead game after Dec because there will be no new maps or weapons...like the 20 some odd maps and 90 some oddweapons and what 200+ gear...all of which was free mind you is gonna go away, or when they released fortnite and people screamed we dont want that crap on our nintendo, i can literally pick out anything nintendo has done and there will always be a hate train behind it...I dont blind follow them but it is exhausting being a fan and not even wanting to go somewhere like gamefaqs to ask a simple question about anything without being full on attacked...and if you speak up yer labled a fanboy, or blind follower or whatever...this is my last post im tired of all this...i have been gaming for 30 years and i have seen this everytime Nintendo has done anything for pretty much the entire time

@electrolite77 Glad you can contribute in a meaningful way as opposed to just going "nah, you're wrong, I'm right." Seriously, tell me how most people's complaints arent about money. Tell me how Nintendo won't improve their online services. Tell me how people saying that it's not a good value just aren't spoiled by the game you get with Xbox Live and PS+. I welcome actual arguments as opposed to the nothing you've responded with.

Prove me wrong. Do it. Prove. Me. Wrong.

@MichaelHarvey then what has value for you especially you are paying cheap for online, getting twenty retro nes games to start with. It is not like you are paying for fifty dollars a year.

@SladeStrife
.. And breathe.. Calm down.. Sometimes, people have different opinions. Not everything that Nintendo does is a good thing. Including this terrible online service. Customer feedback keeps them honest and stops them from delivering a mediocre service.

@electrolite77 who do you think nintendo news is for? Non nintendo users? I do not have a ps4. Why would I go to a site that just have news for PlayStation 4. So of course Nintendo users would look at this site. No this is no church of nintendo. Do you think that sony has a church also. There are a lot of sony fan people that are also nintendo or Microsoft users. What would you call them?

@ekwcll
The current situation has value for me. Taking features away and charging for them is not a good business practice in the long run. A few NES games, blocking local save backups and the awful mobile app are worthless "bonuses" for me.
If they created an awesome online experience with voice chat, a backlog of Nintendo games from all eras, and a decent app with friend messaging capability I would be happily pay $100 a year.

Nintendo's online implementation sucks.

@ekwcll @MichaelHarvey @electrolite77
I completely agree...nothing has been said about what "value" you want just that you dont want to pay. its not a difference of opinion its an opinion met with a brick wall...you arnt keeping them honest its just pissing and moaning at this point. what is it you want for your 20 bucks?

@MichaelHarvey your argument has no ground to stand on...just because it was free and now it is not is not an argument especially since we have known since the beginning that online would become a sub based service and that we have all been on an extended trial

With all the online games coming in the next few months I'm sure some of you will give into the $20 online plan. I don't mind it if it means dedicated servers for games like Smash for example.

@BenRK You clearly have no idea what the term strawman means, so I will explain it to you. A strawman argument is when you misrepresent the other side of an argument, claiming that they said some particular point, when in fact they did not say any such thing. It is attacking a "strawman" instead of addressing the actual point made by the other person. You respond to your own distortion of what they said, and then act like you have refuted them.

@SladeStrife
I don't question Nintendo's right to do this. I'm just saying that it really doesn't add value to take features away and charge for them. That's less value. Also, their idea of an online service sucks.

It literally just costs a nickel a day. My couch will pay for it easily

@SladeStrife It doesn't bother me being a nintendo fan boy. I don't care what other people think of me. Most people think sony can do no wrong, so they blindly follow them. I know Nintendo makes mistakes, but people think almost everything they do is a mistake. Nintendo tried to go sony and Microsoft way with a powerful system, and what happens? People blindly follow the ps2. That is why Nintendo went their own way, and people complain about their systems not as powerful as other systems or their online sucks, because it is not the same as others.

@MichaelHarvey again...you have not mentioned what you want for your 20 bucks you just say it dosent have what you want...thats not constructive criticism thats pissing and moaning...if i came to you for Nintendo switch online for 20 bucks...what would you give me...what is your idea of value?

@BenRK "OH NO! How dare they? The Nintendo Online crap is crappier then ever cause now KIDS DON'T HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY FORNITE! Or something."

What you posted here, for example, is a strawman.

@ekwcll
Being a self-confessed fanboy means you get overzealous about opinions that are contrary to your own. It's not a healthy or rational position to be in. Is your life really so awful and non-eventful that you need to spend your time attacking others that you don't agree with?

@electrolite77 See what you did there? You posted opinions, some not even ones you said. That's not proof.

People are allowed to not want this service. People are allowed to be unwilling to pay for it. That's fine, I really don't care. It's the hyperbole, the doom and gloom, that stuff that I complain against. These are the same people who complained that Nintendo's online infrastructure has been crap and needs improving, but as soon as Nintendo tries to do just that? Complains that they don't want to pay for it. And it is ALWAYS not wanting to pay for it. I have no doubt that if it were free, people would be praising free NES games and cloud saves and probably saying "I'll just use Discord" to the admittedly stupid way voice chatting works on the Switch.

@electrolite7 nobody said that, but you are probably thinking that nintendo should have their online just like others. Fifty bucks a year. Wii games every month instead of nes and probably others. Not start out with twenty retro games, just three a month.

@SladeStrife
I've literally posted about that to another user. I would pay $100 for a decent service with dedicated servers, a Nintendo backlog of games from all eras, a decent mobile app and adding voice chat and the ability to message friends.
Instead we need to pay $20 for absolutely nothing other than some useless "bonuses".

@ekwcll I love that Nintendo does there own thing I really do...i dont care about power at all...and in all honesty anyone claiming they care about power and then buys any console...wellll... yea PC master race and all that. i miss the older days when each console was its own experience but now gamers want everything to be the exact same on all sides and its just stupid...

@MichaelHarvey i said 20 bucks...not 100...that is your problem here you want everything...all or nothing you arnt taking into account this service is 20 bucks a year or 35 for 8 people a year....the question is what value do you want for 20 bucks

So let me get this right!
Fortnite free online and native voice chat.
And other online game....
£20 to play online with either no chat or the stupid app. (App only works with two games tennis and splatoon 2)
Wow what a bargin.

@MichaelHarvey do you really think i am attacking you. I am not the one complaining about their online system. People has their opinions, but you seem to think that nintendo online system sucks, because it is not the way you want it or it is not the sony or Microsoft is.

Nintendo is providing no dedicated servers for online play, which will still use peer-to-peer connections that have none to little cost to Nintendo.

They will do matchmaking, cloud saves and NES games so they will have some dedicated servers, just not for the main point of the service. If it truly costs them to provide this, then fine. That's not how this is being billed, though. It is billed as the service needed for online play, which is not being provided by Nintendo. It is exactly the same and therefore cannot be said to provide any improvement. This is the biggest bugbear.

Another issue is that the package is all or nothing. Yes, NES games have value. But, not if you don't want to play them. There is no option to just select the part of the service you want. That is not great for consumers.

Then, cloud saves are not comprehensive because not all games will be backed up. That is a limit to the service which could be remedied by having dedicated servers for games where cheating/rolling back saves may be a problem. Nintendo has chosen not to do that, despite being able to at least try - that's what they are doing with the NES part of the service, after all.

I probably will pay because the value for me is that at least some of my games will be backed up. I will do so begrudgingly, though, because the service is a bad deal, no matter how cheap it is.

It may be good to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they will improve and actually get some dedicated servers. I can't say I have great faith in that idea. This is not what they have stated and not the direction they seem to be taking at the moment.

Ultimately, an online service ought to have dedicated servers, especially as that would also eliminate cheating and provide a cloud back up. Even if it were only for Splatoon 2 at this point, I would still consider that a legitimate cost and I don't even play online.

@tedko It was a dumb joke, yes, but I'm not just quoting you and just saying you're wrong, am I?

A sensible decision. As mentioned, these games are essentially storefronts, so charging to play them online would be like charging an admission price to enter a shopping mall.

@SladeStrife
Well yes. I don't like to pay money for a mediocre, useless service. I want something good that is value for money or I don't want anything at all. Don't you understand how making an informed purchase works? I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes that I only half-liked. It's all or nothing.

It only costing $20 isn't a defense for the low quality. I and many many others would gladly pay more for a service that does more.

I think the NES games were offered because the world went nuts for the NES Classic. If they brought the N64 first and the world went nuts, then I bet N64 games would be offered first. Nintendo was like "whoa they really like NES" and probably scrambled to get NES on Switch.

I don't have a NES Classic (wanted one and wasn't going to pay ridiculous prices...they are just now in stock for the retail price) so I'm excited to have the wireless NES controller to play them on my lovable Switch. I guess when they run out of NES steam, other games will arrive.

@saintayu
Spot on. You've condensed what I - and many others - wanted to say in a short comment.

@BenRK "Is it really going to be so hard to pay $20 a year? If I was homeless and without a job I'd still be able to manage $20 a year. Is it really that hard to get an internet connection where you live? Well then that's not really Nintendo's fault and you probably wouldn't be using the service anyway."

Here is another strawman posted by you, as I have not seen one person on here who said that it would be hard to pay $20 a year. I have consistently seen people say that they are not happy with the services being offered.

@tedko A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/c/c9/You-keep-using-that-word.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160826222827

@SladeStrife Yeah, that's what I just said earlier.

edit: BenRK is pretending that people have said that it would be hard to pay $20. I am pointing out that this is a strawman as no one here said it would be hard to pay $20.

@tedko Oh balls lol I been at work all night and haven't slept yet 3rd shift getting to me XD my bad haha...still leaving it up because every argument needs a princess bride reference at some point

@tedko @electrolite77 Nnnno, literally everything you quoted boiled down to money. What do you think "value" in the context of this comment section is?

And Tedko, it's not just this article I'm looking at. Plenty of people complained about the price and not having an internet connection in other articles on this site (the one with the poorly translated FAQ comes to mind).

And let me repeat. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO NOT WANT THIS SERVICE! I DON'T CARE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER IF YOU ARE OR AREN'T WILLING TO PAY FOR IT! It's the dumb excuses, not them not wanting it. If you've noticed, I've really only engaged two people on here. There have been plenty who have said that they don't really want this and the like. That's cool. It's those who make no arguments, who complain for the sake of complaining, who keep going around and pretending they made a point, complaining about the quality of a service that isn't even out yet, you get the idea.

I'm willing to call out Nintendo over crap they've done. They have been rather crappy and tone deaf in the recent past, but I've seen them try to get back into the swing of things. Them now wanting a subscription shows me they want to improve their online service.

Hey, maybe it will turn out to be terrible in the end. If it is terrible, then hey, I'd stop using it. We just don't have anything to go off of other then people screaming opinions at each other over and those stupid enough to engage them after a bad day at work and getting tired of it. (And before you go "HURR! YOU'RE THE STUPID ONE!!!" yes, that's what I just said, my fault for trying to engage people while basically saying "lets just see how it turns out" after a dumb joke, I'm self aware)

@SladeStrife No worries. Perhaps this has been enlightening for some, as I see people sometimes throwing terms around when they clearly have no idea what they mean.

hahaha. I hope you get some rest soon.

@BenRK Whoa, chill out dude. I'm just pointing out that people haven't said it will be hard to pay $20, but rather that they are dissatisfied with the service being offered and don't want to pay for it.

I certainly hope that Nintendo does improve its services too. That's all any of us here are hoping for right?

Take care and have a good one.

@tedko Yeah, I'm done too. I highly recommend you don't drink two energy drinks back to back on a late shift when you normally work morning shifts. Screws with your sleep. Fell asleep at 3AM, woke up at my usual 6AM, so guess today's another two energy drink day.

@BenRK Sounds rough man. I hope you get some rest soon. I always get up at 6 am too no matter what because of work schedule, which sucks when you've had to stay up late.

@tedko I am so glad I let my boss talk me into it...

@MichaelHarvey you do know that the switch online service will get better in time with new content rolling in every month.

@Camilla
Yes, I'm holding out that it does get better because it's terrible at launch - according to the details. The massive fan backlash against this service should force them to get their act together.

The only features being developed that we have heard announced are the extra 3 NES games a month. Not a selling point if you're not interested in NES games.

@electrolite77 I mean... you're not wrong. Coming to [insert local TV station here] this spring!

@sanderev Fortnite is not pay to win.

@electrolite77 hahaha, it is a little funny, letting our emotions run so high while arguing with total strangers on internet forums. I've been there!

I figured this would be the case. Good for those still on the fence about this service.

@Yorumi I said I was done, but I just... need to explain this.

Fortnite isn't run by Nintendo. They have their own servers. No doubt they work with Nintendo to make it work on the Switch, but they wouldn't be using Nintendo's servers. Not to mention Fortnite is a tiny bit more popular then Splatoon 2, and they pull in money by people making in game purchases, where as Nintendo doesn't make any money off Splatoon 2 after the initial purchase any paid DLC (which is only bought once). It's not a perfect comparison, but it's not the same thing.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue this... I just needed to say that, get it out in the open.

@Yorumi That doesn't make it true though. We have a fair bit of info about the consumer side of things for this sub, but no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes, even me (Maybe I'm wrong, very possible, but I'm just trying to make sense of it). I'm not calling you a troll, I wasn't aiming anything at you, I've just seen that argument several times in the comment section here and needed to get in my two cents about it. It's all good.

@Yorumi Eh... try to have a good day, ok?

Bring me Warframe!! One of few with an actual community and not just minors being profane.

@tameshiyaku warframe looks awesome way better then fornite.

@Nico07 ik I was just helping a person to find something to complain about also I doubt about gamecube titles.

It's free to play at least I hope its free to play!

@subpopz i agree some people that are complaining about $20 is either cheap or hating it for no reason.

That is pretty dang generous of Nintendo. $20 for online service is already the best deal for consoles, but now you don't have to pay for F2P games? Between warframe, fortnite and Paladins, there is tons of value in just buying the switch outright and not buying anything for the really budget strapped people.

Animal Crossing online will definitely push some sales of the service, Metroid Prime 4 online wouldn't hurt either though

"Sustaining freeloading communities" is more like it

I'm still subscribing

@subpopz while I agree that name calling is ridiculous I don't agree with the rest of what you said.

Complaints can change things and the fact that people think we should just shut up and take what we are given, apparently at every turn, is very sad to me. You should never feel that you don't have a voice and even if speaking out does nothing at all, I will still do it.

Things can be successful while still being hugely predatory and given the cultish fan bases that have become a part of the modern world and the status signaling that comes with certain purchases, quality has become less important in the success of a service and branding more important.

Positive response is defiantly one of the best outcomes of advertising as it can magnify the effect it has.

So yeah money matters to Nintendo and any other business and of course money will speak loudest but it will never be the only thing that matters.

@Sakura So let's take your view to another industry. Amazon Prime makes me pay $12.99/mo. or $99 annually. But I am not interested in Amazon Prime Video, Prime Music, Prime Storage, Twitch Prime, Prime Pantry (not available in my area), or Prime Reading. All I really want is Prime Shipping, so why do I have to pay the full price?

The service is primarily for Online Play, just like Prime is primarily for shipping. All the other stuff is value-add intended to get you to stay. NES Classic is a start for Switch, but who says it is the end. Perhaps one day there will be the equivalent of all the Prime services to make the service sweater. Remember at one point Prime membership just was about shipping.

Free-to-play games require the largest possible potential playerbase in order to maintain success.

I'm guessing that Epic and Digital Extreme personally requested to Nintendo that their games not be gated behind the $20 annual paywall.

@ekwcll Nintendo screwed up by going to the mini DVD which limited size. Literally the same issue with the N64 (storage space). N64 was the strongest of that gen too. Even Nintendo knew it and was announcing the 64DD before the console ever came out (why not just change it?).

Now the issue is having games run on their system.

@Agramonte I'm pretty sure 700 series and up would work just fine. I have a GTX 635 and I can run pretty much anything my PS4 can, and certainly anything a Nintendo Swtch could, and yet those consoles offer far more incentives over gaming on my PC. It really just baffles me how Microsoft can be so dense sometimes. I certainly hope this convinces them to undo that policy, I sure as hell wouldn't pay for Xbox Live Gold just to play some free games...then again, I don't think there's a game Microsoft has that could ever convince me to pay for their subscription services again...

@Darknyht I see your point, but I don't like Prime either and don't subscribe, so... I have the same valid criticism of that service in terms of there being a charge for things you don't necessarily want and won't necessarily use. All extras do is inflate cost if you don't use them. Being common practice doesn't mean that it is a consumer-friendly tactic that I endure without noticing. It's like having to pay for a landline for broadband, even though I never use the landline.

All I'm saying is I'd like to not be burdened with the cost of a service that I don't want. I don't expect to be exempted in any way by options being provided and I've already said I will pay because I want the cloud saves. I will still be paying for a service I don't want, though. I actually don't want online either because I don't play online. This was never going to be a great deal for me, but there's no other way, so I'm locked to it. I am disappointed by the lack of dedicated servers, still. I'm not really understanding the costs involved because peer-to-peer doesn't cost Nintendo. I'll give them some leeway and say that it helps with overall online infrastructure, including the eShop. That's a lot of leeway since the cost of games is already supposed to cover the cost of distribution. I think anti-piracy might be where the money is going. I'm fine with that, which is why I'll pay for a service that I largely won't use.

Yes, perhaps more will be added. I still remember Wii U, though, and the initial promise of that console was ditched hard. There is no guarantee and I trust no company at all (and very few people), so I am at least consistent in that regard.

I will pay but I am definitely aware that I'm paying solely to ensure that at least some of my games are backed up to the cloud. That's the way it is for me.

@CanisWolfred Yeah - you can meet PS4 level easy. Neither would I. The few Xbox games I do care about - like Forza - I can get on PC cheaper (if I wait a bit) and with free online play.

@Darknyht Well there are close to no benefits included with the online play that was free before (well it wasn't, since it was a trial that lasted way too long, but you get what I mean).

Cloud saves don't work for the games where they matter most (Singleplayer game saves suck losing, but it's not that bad. Multiplayer game saves? Devastating, starting over in a multiplayer game is horrendous).

The members discounts we know nothing about

Playing nes or snes games in 2k18... Lol.

The app is and was a joke, and it won't be getting better anytime soon. I even opted to not use it even though it had nice deals for splatoon 2 items. Wasn't worth it.

Finally, there's a reason people don't talk about local co-op. It's just not popular anymore. Yes, some people play local co-op. Most people play online. There's also several issues with local co-op, such as requiring everybody to be in the same place at the same time, and often either sharing a screen or having to avoid interference between two units.

That and Nintendo isn't charging for local co-op so it can suck all it wants, it's part of the "initial price"

I'll be paying for this "service" of theirs because you only live once, but they are offering pretty much nothing.

@Sakura I understand where you are coming from also, but while I remember the Wii U there is also the Wii. Nintendo found themselves without online because the company they were paying for Gamespy service shut the service down on them after a buyout.

P2P for connections (with match making servers) isn't uncommon in gaming. There are advantages/disadvantages vs. dedicated servers, and it appears that Nintendo is allowing those that want to run their own dedicated servers. They are just locking their own match making servers behind a paywall (and there are upkeep costs for those).

In the end, let's give it a year and see where it is. I choose to be optimistic, that much like PS+ and Xbox Live the service will improve.

@Blizzia Cloud saves don't work on Nintendo multiplayer games, we know nothing of third party games. Since most store your information on their servers there is a de facto cloud backup of progress. And as I said before, this appears to be only for games that want to use Nintendo's servers. Cloud saves for local games, milage can vary. I see it as a gift since I play RPGs mostly.

I think on the subject of local co-op, you would do well to pay attention to the messaging of the console. In just about every commercial you see, Nintendo has people in a space playing together. Be that your room, roof party, bar, arena, or car; the gameplay shown is typically local co-op. The games are designed with that in mind. For example, there is no online ability for the console matchups in Mario Party Switch, and that is a big marketing selling point.

Now, third parties will do what third parties want. And again, I don't think this will effect third parties like EA since they prefer to run their own servers (and shut them down on a whim). But the truth is, we only know what Nintendo has told us about what Nintendo plans to do.

As for NES and SNES classics on the system, while you are free to have your opinion; I think the fact that the NES/SNES Classic outsold ever other console at one point this year might put you in the minority. Good games stay good games no matter the age.

Got it, I'll need the sub for MHGU.

It's already brazen to put online play behind a paywall (especially without any real, crucial benefits or improvements).
But what makes it even more ridiculous is creating exceptions from that for F2P games.
Nintendo are basically admitting that the subscription fee is completely arbitrary.