Nintendo Switch Now Reportedly Adds 25% Extra GPU Power for Developers in 'Mobile' Mode

It's Greek to me

There's one part in there, that I feel warrants a pointing out, namely this: "However, the gulf in performance between mobile and docked configurations is considerable, which may require graphical compromises when gaming on the go."

By no means am I well-versed in tech, but I feel this gives docked some strength as a home-console.

@Aslanmagic It just means more to work with for developers, so a better environment for them to program in, less downgrading and in the end, better performance of games in handheld mode, even if it's only a 25% improvement. It also makes the performance gap between portable and docked a little smaller, although that is obviously still a considerable leap.

@ThanosReXXX And in exchange, less battery life.

@ThanosReXXX I'd argue that, if it wasn't a considerable leap, it would lose some serious validity as a hybrid on the home-console front.

@ThanosReXXX theres a problem with all of this info though.

1. The information reported by Digital Foundry still is based on old information. Dated July 2016. Both their leak and the Chinese teardown

2. In the real world, it seems as though portable mode actually can render the graphics better. There are slight fps drops docked vs undocked as reported on Zelda

@UmniKnight well we know the biggest compromise in handheld mode... Resolution. The switch screen is limited 720p, where the dock can output up to 1080p. I believe Zelda was confirmed at 900p docked, and I think I heard 1080p for MK8 Deluxe. Resolution makes a huge difference for processing.

@daveh30 It would be a shame to see frame-dips, simply because one is playing in docked. It should be more stable, if anything...

We know how Nintendo works by now and raw power is not nessasarrily a given term of what a Nintendo console can do, more of a know how ala bayonnetta 2 wii u, so we can expect Sony and Microsoft to come out with some pretty beefy specs with their next consoles but i pretty much think the Switch will stroll allong like a bird in tights!

@UmniKnight No need to argue, since I didn't deny that...

I think if I was to develop a game, I would rather develop my game on a lower spec system comparing to the retail version. It makes more sense so I would know my game will guarantee to run as expected.

@RickRau5 The difference is still 30fps in handheld mode vs 60fps docked, which is considerable. And of course the bump in resolution to at least 900p but in most cases 1080p, and that higher resolution especially, needs that extra power, and that can only be freed up in docked mode.

Zelda is just one game, and on top of that, it is also a game that originated on the Wii U, so that's not the best example to take when you want to compare the difference between docked and handheld mode.

@ThanosReXXX You just typed it to Rickraus, so changing is around a bit: Is that digital foundry report reputable? Since it was pointed out that it's based on a 2016 report.

@Swaz Not necessarily. Could also be optimized for all we know, or maybe only slightly less. 25% more processing power doesn't have to equal 25% less battery power...

@ThanosReXXX Plus I've red in many a site, that BotW runs 30 FPS even when docked... http://www.zeldainformer.com/breath-of-the-wild-runs-at-900p-at-30fps-while-docked-as-confirmed-by-this-performance-analysis/ Happen to have a link in which it says it runs 60 during docked play? As I've only found sites, citing that they were aiming for 1080/60 FPS, but not actually confirming it.

@UmniKnight Well, in docked mode, the frame rate is doubled, and resolution is about 33 - 35% higher, as shown in this comparison chart:

But it's not just that the resolution is that much higher, it's obviously also the number of pixels, and there could be more to it, like density of pixels or better pixels, if you will, something that is also sometimes said when tech heads are talking about UHD resolutions. And better simply means more refined, and better physics behind the pixels, something that interactive media, like video games, especially benefit from.

@ThanosReXXX Well, a dip at 60, isn't as much of an issue as a dip at 30, so if it's indeed 60, then those dips shouldn't matter nearly as much. But, again, I don't see anything concrete that proves it runs at 60 (not that I don't believe you, I simply need something concrete for further discussing.)

@UmniKnight No, BotW indeed runs at 30fps, which is also why I said in comment #12 that it isn't a good example of handheld vs docked.

The difference will be there in newer games, or in games optimized for the hardware. And if the frame rate is a target for the developer, as is the case in the re-imagined FAST Neo game, then the graphics will have to be downgraded slightly in handheld mode, because it'll have to be either one or the other.

Or both, if it's a really demanding game...

@UmniKnight I also never said anything about Zelda specifically, except in comment #12, so you probably misread my other comments, which were all meant as comments to the topic of the CPU improvements in general, not just for one game.

@ThanosReXXX Well, personally it's FPS > graphics for me. As someone who sometimes plays, and has played MMO's going from 60+ frames to around 5 to sometimes even 0, makes you appreciate having them as high as possible.

I'm hoping games like Xenoblade, FE:Warriors and Mario Odyssey will be a better example for Switch' power, since it won't have this piece of Wii-U in there.

@ThanosReXXX My bad, simply looking to gather as much info as possible before the 3rd hits, and I want be sure of my case

@ThanosReXXX true. But is Zelda reported 60 fps on the dock? Dont remember reading that

@RickRau5
Zelda is 30fps, docked or handheld.

@UmniKnight
I'm confident it will.

Breath of the Wild is an amazing game, gorgeous and beautiful. But it is held back by Wii U. Plus launch games, if you compare to games that come 1, 2, 3 years into the life cycle, always look noticeably more rigid and primitive.

But in particular, this Zelda is pushing the kinds of technical boundaries AAA games tend to push, and as a result is dealing with the same kinds of results (compromise between visuals and framerate, notably). Less demanding games will by and large run without a hitch (even a port of Mario Kart, which is also based on a Wii U game and releasing near launch, will run 1080p 60fps)

@JaxonH That's good to know at least, and yes I can see how the Wii-U is holding the Switch' version back. Perhaps we'll have another Zelda come to Switch down the line, one built from the ground up for it.

I wonder how Skyrim will run on the Switch, and if it is that remaster, or the original.

@RickRau5 Hmm, several previews state that there are no fps drops in the final build of Zelda: Breath of the Wild though.

@Blizzia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9t2uY91kyg

These specs are horrendous. The Switch is what we all feared it would be, substantially weaker than the PS4.

You got boost power!

@UmniKnight As long as it's solid, I care just as little about the number of frames as I do about resolutions. I still play a lot of non-HD games, and these still look lovely to me, low-res and 30fps and all...

Having said that, I do see the benefits of a higher frame rate, but I just won't be fooled into believing that they are necessary in every kind of game, because they simply are not.

In racing games, fighting games, and other fast reaction type games, a higher frame rate is not only good for more fluid animation, but also to prevent screen tearing and other deformities that could occur because of fast moving imagery.

A lower frame rate can easily be used in games that move at a more leisurely pace, such as a Zelda game, or any other adventure type game. It is actually WAY more beneficial to give such a game a more cinematic "feel".

There's a reason why 30fps (and even lower) is still a staple in the movie industry for certain genres... (for example: all Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies were filmed in lower frame rates)

@RickRau5 No it isn't, and I also never said that it was...

@ThanosReXXX I suppose, and you forgot that in turn-based games, they also matter less (still doesn't excuse the outright stupid drops during Sun/Moon and ORAS in multi-battles. Seriously Nintendo, get on that already). I'm enjoying a game from 2003 right now, in all it's graphical and buggy glory. But yes, stability probably matters more, though as I've said before, getting 60 gives Nintendo a notable edge against their competition.

@UmniKnight No, I didn't forget that, I just wasn't planning on listing ALL genres, I assumed you could figure that out for yourself by the other examples that I did give.

@UmniKnight And that supposed "edge" for the Switch will disappear as fast as it has come when games for the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio will also be standardized at 60fps...

@ThanosReXXX Hey, I felt that was a good one, don't go striking me down now. Also, movies aren't comparable to video games in that respect, you know that.

Hooray...?

I'll just say that's a good thing and move on with my life.

Honestly, I'm just commenting to show off my new profile pic.

So can I play the new Zelda on my iPad or do i have to buy this tablet to do it?

@ThanosReXXX Guess Nintendo will have to leverage their strength of IP then.

@UmniKnight Ah, forgot the smiley... Fixed.

@Mega_Yarn_Poochy Nice pic (but maybe to do your name justice you could use a Mega Yarn Yoshi riding Poochy), but yes 25% performance increase is pretty substantial. Prior to this MK8 was still getting 720p 60fps and Zelda 720p 30fps. The added performance could help other developers hit their fps goals when it comes to mobile mode performance. This news is good news.

@Nico07 Oh, that's great then. Better performance is always nice.

(But not as nice as Poochy )

@Mintendo
Wanna play Zelda Breath of the Wild ?
Easy. Follow this way :
1. Buy Nintendo Switch for $300.
2. Buy the game also for $60.
3. Buy Pro Controller for optional purchase.
4. Play the game on Nintendo Switch, NOT on your Ipad !

YES ! You HAVE to buy Nintendo Switch to play Zelda Breath of the Wild. You CANNOT use your Ipad to play that game.

guess wat guys BOTW gots its first solid 10 review from edge magazine hell yeah.

Yay... is it Friday yet??

@Camilla
Saw that. In 23 years, Edge has only given 19 perfect scores. Zelda BotW is now one of them. 10/10

@MadameSpuki
I think this is the conclusion so far. All in all, game runs fine on Wii U, Switch handheld and Switch dock.

On Wii U, there are occasional framerate dips into the teens. Not often, and rarely when it matters (their words).

On Switch docked, there are occasional framerate dips to mid 20's. Not often, and rarely when it matters (their words).

On Switch handheld, there aren't any noticeable framerate dips (which makes sense given its scaled down to half the clock speed and resolution is reduced to 720p in handheld mode). So normal inconsistencies you'd see on a regular console game become nonexistent in handheld mode.

@zionich not yet but this good news that botw is going to be epic.

@LeRaposa You can not compare systems tha are different at core with some specs that easily. Especially not with clockspeeds.

A 500mhz cpu can beat a 3000mhz cpu, as there are many other factors in play.

But in generall: You can not determin what a system can do by specs alone if you don't have at least one nearly identical system for comparison.
Easiest way of comparing two consoles remains looking at the actual games.

"So close no matter how far"

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I'd rather have blast processing.

If they're boosting mobile mode, I wonder whether docked mode will be alright with games taking advantage of the extra power.

Great news for developers.

@ThanosReXXX They're 4K consoles, not 60fps consoles, and the PS4 Pro at least isn't even a native 4K console. The only improvement the PS4 Pro offers in 1080p is super sampling, if it even offers any improvements, I don't think it always does. And there have been initial cases where the PS4 Pro performs worse than the standard PS4 - even in 1080p - because it's still rendering at a higher resolution before outputting at 1080.

As for the article, it's worth noting that 1080p is double the pixel count of 720p, so it seems like the Switch is double the power of the Wii U in docked mode and equal in power undocked, in terms of the GPU at least. The CPU may well be double the power of the Wii U CPU in both modes if the GPU is anything to go by, since the CPU runs at the same speed whether docked or undocked.

Looks like Eurogamer is trying to protect its credibility and pride because none of this is 100% confirmed yet, especially for retail units. They want to crap on the Foxconn leak because it goes against what they said and they want to cover their butts so everybody doesn't label them as the Sony hacks that they are. We shall find out the truth here real soon. Also I find it funny that they're basing a lot of their assumptions on the leaked photos of the insides because those photos have been used to debunk their own theories/leaks.

@capitalism You've got a point. I hope we'll have definitive specs, soon.

beast of a handheld!! always what i wanted from nintendo!

@NewAdvent Unfortunately, it's not that simple, and the question is impossible to answer right now anyway since we don't yet have the system and game in our hands.

However, the reason the game may run smoother in handheld mode has more to do than just rendering in 720p. The drop in power of the GPU from docked to handheld undoubtedly requires developers to adjust other visuals as well. If you look at the comparison video posted earlier, it's clear to see that the handheld mode visuals are not only lower resolution and more blocky, but that the graphics are much less cinematic than playing in TV mode. Likely, there are several features such as sun shafts, soft shadows, etc, that the developers either turn off or tone down in handheld mode to allow the GPU to render the scene at a much lower clock speed.

So, although your TV and the console in handheld mode may support the same number of pixels, that in no way means that the same demand will be placed on the GPU whether it's docked or not. It is likely that you will see improved framerates with less dips when running on your TV in 720p versus someone running on a TV that supports the max 900p that the game can output, however.

@SeriousSam Never said they were "60fps consoles", just that most games on both will be optimized to reach that target, at least: that is the intent. Whether or not they'll make it, is beside the point. Just like the fact that not every game will be in native 1080p (or 4K).

The point was that hitting 60fps wasn't going to be something that the Switch could use as a selling point.

And for the record: I am equally unimpressed with the PS4 Pro: it's all smoke and mirrors and not really a substantial update on all but a few levels.

I think it will all work out in the end.

@ThanosReXXX Only a 25% improvement is nothing to sneeze at. It is the kind of improvement you see between processors of different generations, like between generation 4 and 6 (not 5) of the Intel i7, for example

Just about every PC game I own allows you to mess around with the graphics and performance settings.

It really shouldn't be hard for devs to create 2 sets of optimized settings.

Pretty much what Action51 above me said. I imagine some devs will just make/use one, or the other of optimization style.

Don't expect to be able to play as Peach in the next New Super Mario Bros. game, or the Ice Climbers to be in the roster of the next Smash; dress physics, & independent a.i., ya know?

@UmniKnight Idk what Gamexplain is smoking, but I see no stutter.

@maceng True, but graphically, people shouldn't expect too much (of a difference). Games might run quite a bit smoother, though.

Well, I presume this is a good thing.

@Dakt According to Nintendo themselves, it's either the target that they want or the possibility that the hardware offers in docked mode.

The titles you named are either re-imaginings or not built from the ground up on the Switch, which (much like Zelda) makes them bad examples of what the (maximum) difference will be.

I suppose we will have to wait and see what completely new titles like ARMS and Mario Odyssey will do.

And I also mentioned that IF they want to stick to a uniform frame rate of 60fps, then the graphics will have to suffer in portable mode, unless it's a simpler game. 30fps won't be a problem in either configuration.

@Action51 Exactly.

So... the console itself is better in handheld mode?

@Action51 : I'm disappointed that developers weren't already doing that with the 3DS/New 3DS and further back with the DS/DSi. Nintendo themselves scarcely take advantage of the New 3DS's strengths in the majority of cases, which makes me wonder why they even bothered to release the hardware revision in the first place (other than to leech off suckers like me).

I would have loved to have seen smoother performance in say, Fire Emblem Fates and the Gen VI Pokémon games, which suffered from frequent frame rate drops and other (albeit minor) performance compromises. Neither of those games took advantage of the New 3DS at all. Even if it's an improvement in loading times and frame rate in certain instances where lag may occur, it would have been preferable to nothing at all. It's particularly annoying knowing that the system is capable but devs just can't be bothered to do the bare minimum.

@MarcelRguez it might, for the same two people.

@sillygostly
And to support SNES VC (the reason I went ahead and got one).

@PigmaskFan : Fair enough, though I personally don't consider that to be much of a selling point, but I've never been particularly nostalgic for NES/SNES/N64 games. I absolutely love GB/GBC games though, and I'm really disappointed that none of the major publishers seem to be making an effort to get their catalogue titles available on the service.

@sillygostly Yeah, there isn't anything for SNES VC except 1st-party and Capcom.

@RickRau5 only because of graphic display going from 1080 to 720 or 900 can't remember

@Blizzia Well, I'll leave it to my impressions once the 3rd comes around.

that memory speed thang is a bigger deal than it's given credit for if it's VIDEO memory. system memory, not so much. if it's soc then it's shared, if my understanding is correct.

I have a question, I am already assuming that there is no way to get analog sound out of the switch other than the Audio port on the unit itself. I still use a CRT tv that has a DV-I input. With my Wii U I have a HDMI to DVI and then use the sound from the analog cable through the WiiU's interntal routing. From looking at the Dock itself, there is no other Audio output besides the HDMI. My question, is there any way to get analog sound from the Switch in Docked mode. Or do I have to buy a converter that Converts HDMI audio to analog.

More power can only be a good thing.

@ThanosReXXX Here's a thought on the new 384 number. Any chance they raised 307 to 384 not b/c 25% is a big jump, but simply b/c it's now half of docked mode 768 making it easier on everyone involed, docked is double handheld or handheld is half of docked, depending on which mode the development team is focusing on.

Makes it a whole lot easier on me thinking and talking about it.

Why are you still making articles about the switch? The controlers are faulty and the system is doomed!

@SetupDisk nope

@LeRaposa a handheld which is like 10x the power of the Vita.

I am not disappointed at all. It's a beast handheld console

@Anti-Matter I believe they were being sarcastic.

@UmniKnight Same

Nintendo. Now your playing with power

No, I don't agree that Nintendo is "a lying, cheating scam of a company." I mean, I get why people keep saying that over and over, and why they're so fed up with Nintendo for every decision they make, but I don't know, maybe things will change(?).

@ThanosReXXX Sorry, but the PS4 Pro was never intended to offer better frame rates, it was aimed at people like me who have 4K TV's and want to game in 4K, that's it. The PS4 Pro has 2.3 times the GPU power of the standard PS4 and 4K requires 4 times the pixel count of 1080p so if a game is 1080p30 on PS4 the PS4 Pro won't even be able to do native 4K at 30fps - the entire point of its existence. So there's no chance that it will improve the frame rate when it was designed specifically to offer a '4K solution' to people like me, who own a 4K TV. Even the Scorpio will only be able to do native 4K on games that run at 1080p with no room for improving frame rates.

Some people who had nothing to do with the PS4 Pro HOPED it would offer better frame rates in 1080p, but it doesn't, it wasn't even aimed at these people. If anything it offers worse frame rates than the standard PS4. And I speak as someone who has access to a PS4 Pro and has been following the Digital Foundry analysis of what games are supported by the PS4 Pro and what upgrades it offers if its extra power is utilised. And every single game is targeting the highest resolution possible at the exact same frame rate as before, because that's what it was specifically designed to offer - a jump in resolution towards 4K - NOT better frame rates.

Nintendo cares more about 60fps than either Sony or MS - even Total Biscuit has talked about this, and he's obsessed with 60fps (minimum). Sony and MS normally want to make the best looking games possible, which means 30fps, whereas Nintendo normally target 60fps, probably because it takes less time and effort to create the assets for such games as much as anything, though they do care about gameplay and 'feel' more than Sony or MS of course.

@Dakt It was somewhere in the specs of either Nvidia themselves (on their Switch blog) or in the press releases. It was also mentioned several times here on Nintendo Life that the docked mode would have the benefit of the higher resolution and frame rate in games.

But ultimately, it will obviously be a choice of developers and as far as the problem you're proposing is concerned: that would only count in asynchronous multiplayer, i.e. when one is playing in handheld mode and another on TV. When all are playing handheld or all are playing on the TV, frame rates will obviously be equal.

@SeriousSam My point was (and thanks for not understanding) that I wasn't interested in a whole "what Microsoft and Sony offer" discussion, so you're focusing on the wrong part of my comment.

Again: I was only adding them in the mix to emphasize that Nintendo (possibly) focusing on 60fps won't give them all that much of a huge selling point in comparison to the other two.

And it's not a given at all that focusing on frame rate is easier by default. That all depends on various factors and aiming for a certain frame rate can definitely impact other areas of the game, such as resolution and fidelity/complexity, so to say that going for a better frame rate is easier, is not completely true.

I also don't know if it's true that Nintendo focuses on frame rate, since a lot of their games aren't 60fps at all, so that's debatable as well.

@Dakt I don't know the tech behind it, but perhaps they'll come up with some kind of solution then, if people are playing online. For example by simply locking the frame rate to 30fps for ALL players, I don't know.

All I know is that Zelda is locked at 30 fps in both modes and has a lower fidelity on the handheld, and games like the new FAST RMX are also affected in handheld mode, because they are indeed focusing on that speed, so to get that, on top of the lower resolution, all the fancy graphics effects will probably have to be toned down considerably, so no HDR and such in handheld mode, so that they can maintain 60fps across the board. Mario Kart applies the same graphics downgrade to keep the game at 60fps in all configurations.

My main point is that there is a difference in resolutions and/or frame rates between handheld and docked mode, AND subsequently a difference in performance, so the frame rate and resolution varies, depending on setup, and that is a fact. What developers decide to (or can) do with that, is obviously largely up to them.

Here are some sources:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-switch-spec-analysis
http://www.zeldainformer.com/breath-of-the-wild-runs-at-900p-at-30fps-while-docked-as-confirmed-by-this-performance-analysis/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/13/nintendo-admits-switch-performance-upgrade-when-docked
https://www.slashgear.com/nintendo-switchs-simple-specs-shared-pro-control-or-just-no-27473117/
http://nintendoeverything.com/different-settings-for-docked-portable-switch-modes-spotted-in-unreal-engine-4/
https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/14/mario-kart-8-deluxe-heres-some-screens-and-a-video-showing-it-run-at-1080p-60fps/
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/mario-kart-8-nintendo-switch-resolution-and-frame-/1100-6446930/

@rjejr That's a good thought. Whatever their reasons/motivation, it makes it easier for developers either way.

The same thing could have been said for a 540p screen on the Switch, for easy up- and downgrading to 1080p, but I'm still glad they went with 720p in the end...

@ThanosReXXX I was fully expecting a 540p screen, which I think is comparable to Vita and was a multiple of the top 3DS screen to make it easier for ports. I was surprised to see 720p which technically is HD, but that does make it better for watching Netflix and browsing the web. Oh wait.

That SSguy is on something, half of what he says contradicts the other half and half of that is wrong.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/02/analysis-ps4-pros-boost-mode-bumps-frame-rates-up-to-38-percent/

100

#correction This is misquoted: "Previously developers could decide between 1600MHz or 1331.2MHz when the Switch is docked ("boost mode") although this appears to have changed, meaning they are now limited to only 1600MHz."
It said only 1331.2MHz is available in undocked mode now. As compared to before when both speeds were available. Both speeds ARE available in docked mode still.

@Dakt Have you checked ALL the links I posted? The Digital Foundry article for example, which specifically mentions both differences in resolution AND frame rate.

And AGAIN: Zelda is not a good example, since that has its roots firmly planted in its Wii U origins, hence the lower than possible graphics and frame rate, so as not to create to big of a disparity between the two versions.

Anyways, I'm kinda done here. I wasn't really looking for a group discussion with all kinds of people that seem to be focused on tackling me based upon some possible minor discrepancy in some comment that was only ever intended for one person, to clarify some stuff about the article to him and to perhaps ease his mind a little bit.

Just search the archives here on NLife and you'll find plenty of specs related articles that mention both resolution AND frame rate differences between docked and handheld modes. The fact that games mentioned thus far only have a resolution downgrade in handheld mode does not mean that this is going to be the case for ALL titles.

@rjejr At first I expected 540p as well; seemed to make sense, but a HD screen is better after all, not just for media but also for gaming, and you could argue that in Nintendo's case, it's a bit of future-proofing since they obviously went above and beyond what Sony offered. But I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.

And I'm pretty sure the most coveted services and functionalities will be coming eventually, so web browsing and Netflix will probably be some of the first to arrive, along with Twitch and YouTube.

And agreed on the other commenter. And PS4 Pro's specs weren't even the point, so I decided to steer clear of it in my response, because even though I could have come up with a similar article that you did (kudos for finding and posting that, by the way), I just decided that I couldn't be bothered.

@RickRau5 It can handle the better effects and all that because it's rendering the resolution at 720 as opposed to 1080. That's a pretty sizable difference in resources right there.

@SetupDisk
Switch doomed ? Not at all.

More power is great

@UmniKnight Just a small change you should make; Nintendo isn't responsible for any of the mainline Pokémon games (barring the original Silver and Gold where Iwata stepped in to code two regions into the games to help out GameFreak).

GameFreak is pretty notorious for not being particularly good at coding efficiently and unfortunately they are the main developers of the series and own a sizable chunk of the IP as well. It's doubtful that Nintendo would want to step on the toes of GameFreak (they are a contracted developer rather than owned developer) whom are responsible for developing Nintendo's most successful IP.

Only 25%?

That's it, I've cancelled my preorder again.