Video: The Surprising Origins of the Wii Virtual Console Super Mario Bros. ROM

lol Nintendo are a bunch of pirates themselves, I wonder how many other Roms they've downloaded from the Internet and sold them at the ridiculous eshop prices.

Can't wait to pay a fee to transfer all my 3ds virtual console games (I have about 30) to my new Switch!

The story is certainly amusing, but doesn't really delegitimize nintendo's stance on emulation. This guy managed to take a funny story and turn into a nauseating lecture.

Even if this is true, the ROM still belongs to Nintendo and they can do as they wish with it.

Interesting.

Even if this story checks out, it's pretty far fetched to suggest that Nintendo 'relied' upon the emulation community for the ROM. I'm pretty sure they'd have been able to dig out a copy of the ROM had they needed to.

@Dakt I was thinking the same thing, But I think the point he's arguing is that Nintendo was (accidentally) relying on a pirate's emulation which is something they've condoned. As well as the fact that in certain scenarios, emulation can be helpful for the video game community. The point wasn't really made apparent until the last of the video.

Of course, ^This entails that all pirates (should) use common sense and decency in piracy, as to not infringe on a company's earnings. Summary: Not all pirates bad??

The problem for those than don't get it, is that nintendo doesn't want to use anything from outside, and instead do it themselves (like how Super Metroid was going to be in Metroid prime, but because the snes emulator was from someone else found on the internet, they disagreed)

In this case, it seems they didn't found out or didn't care, but should prove contradictory to their previous standing regarding this issue.

Nintendo can't blame me for ripping music from ROMs anymore.

This is hilarious.

"But- but- but------"

Nope.

Nintendo can sell us their IP in any state, form, or function. Makes no difference.

The ROM content being identical bit is vague to the point of being misleading. It is very easy to find perfect dumps of NES games. The VC ROM is basically 100% likely to be a perfect copy. So obviously it was downloaded because I can find an identical copy online 🙄. It'd be one thing if it was a known bad dump of the game, but there was either no attempt to discern this or the ROM is perfect and leaving this out makes everything seem more nefarious.

The presence of a header is odd and would have given me pause if the ROM content part wasn't so sketchy. Maybe Nintendo came to the same conclusion and the iNES author and decided to use an existing format instead of coming up with their own. This is something that needs more research, not a funny story turned lecture like @Chozo said.

The people trying to vilify Nintendo over this are mostly going to be the usual piracy defenders. I'm not some anti-piracy zealot, but I'm also a pragmatic person who understands basic creative ownership law.

Let's take this example: we lost beloved musician Prince last year, and like Nintendo Prince was notorious for protecting the rights for distribution of his music.

Let's imagine that his label couldn't find the master recording for "When Doves Cry" but managed to find a high quality rip on-line.

Is it no longer his song? Does he lose the right to charge for his creative work?

If so, can you explain how and why so, and why it should be any different for Nintendo?

Well, crud.

What the video fails to acknowledge is that every VC game is an emulation. The person who emulated the game translates the source code, but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo owns the IP. Therefore it's their prerogative to do with it - and charge for it - as they wish.

Its like a painter giving out photo copies of there painting. There a reason for a Master version, wether that's in games, film or music.

I don't see the problem of them using ROMS of their own games... the only "problem" is if somebody really messed with the ROM and they didn't notice it. If it['s just the ROM from the cartridge there's no problem.

If it's not a poop ROM, there's no real problem in it.

@ThomasBW84 I don't get what all the fuss is about?
It's Nintendo's property, they're not violating any laws when they use a ROM from a game they own (not 'own' like a customers 'owns' a copy and the license to play it, but actually own).

I'm not really against piracy either, but I'm astonished how some people here see that as a justification for themselves to download ROMs... Nintendo can do whatever they want with their property, that doesn't mean we have the right to do the same.

Either way Nintendo still owns the game what's the big deal?

Nintendo is within their rights to sell a ROM of their own game, even if someone else dumped it from an NES cart.

Who cares? Nintendo can download its ROMs off the internet whenever and however they can, because they own them. I don't see the controversy.

Two birds with one stone: get the ROM for the Virtual Console development, then shut down the site distributing it. Win-win for Nintendo.

@Grawlog Eurogamer seems to be on a tirade. First all the Switch hate now an accusation piece. Nintendo must have come down hard for the leaks.

Let's keep it real what's it matter?Nintendo owns the IP lol the people that made the game playable on the internet don't own the IP.so there is a difference

Well, technically Nintendo is only pirating their own games (or games they have a license to distribute). Not sure if that still counts as piracy.

(though I am reminded of one of Pat the Punk's "ebay scumbag seller of the weak" being someone literally selling ROMs individually (not even like 2000-era pirates selling ROM CDs). I guess his viewers shut that guy down within hours after he posted.
The difference from that guy, is that of course Nintendo is paying for legal rights to sell ROMs individually.

If they want to stop people from pirating older games then they need to provide a way to legally purchase these older games. I would love to see a sevice like steam that I can download to my computer and run. Then legally browse and purchase roms and manage/update the roms. Then we can run our legally purchased roms on any device or emulator we own. This seems like the best solution to me, as I won't have to rebuy the game everytime a new system comes out and the company still makes a profit from selling the game. Plus they won't have to spend time and money to develop an emulator for each new system. Just provide proper documentation about the hardware and let others do the work.

So the hypothesis putting Nintendo's digital piracy warfare in an ironic light is based on data accessed by means common in digital piracy. That's some ironyception going on here. XD

Keyword: sometimes

oh my god that Nintendo emulation FAQ is so hilariously bad and unprofessional

"hurts Nintendo's goodwill"

"It's that simple and not open to debate"

It's like they paid someone from the comments here to write that

It may be true. However, Nintendo owns SMB, which means they also own the SMB ROM file and any copy of it, regardless of who made the copy. At least that's how I see it.

@Grawlog Without wishing to sound like a conspiracy theorist, Eurogamer do appear to have had the knives out for Nintendo ever since Friday's presentation. There's this piece; an article about Apple raising the prices in their store and irrelevantly focusing on a potential price increase for Mario Run (rather than, say, everything on the store); a preview of Splatoon 2 which starts from the position that it's not a real sequel, before describing the completely new and overhauled content; and it was they who broke the "story" about the fact that the Switch grip doesn't charge the j-cons, as if it were a fundamental flaw.

Switch is not beyond criticism, but the way Eurogamer has approached their coverage comes across as petty and starts from a negative place by default.

At least, that's my interpretation.

Sigh... this isn't new, people.

Companies like Taito have used the iNES header format in their classic collections well before the Wii VC was even conceived. iNES isn't a licensed format. It's open source, and anyone (even the the copyright holders) can use it.

We simply don't have enough evidence that Nintendo ripped a Rom from the internet. Rom dumps back in the day had so much variation because the hardware used in copiers wasn't as precise as say, the Retron 5 today. (And the emulators used there are a whole different licensing issue.)

@Yalaa Yes, Nintendo are pirates for (allegedly) downloading their own games. That they made. And own.

Someone should check all the other virtual console games, at least on Wii. If they all have an iNES header, the most likely explanation is that Nintendo, or their contractors, copied the .nes file system to run their own official emulator on Wii, because obviously that would save a lot of time/money. Why spend time engineering a complex solution to your problem when one already exists for free on the internet? Believe it or not, this is really common in software development.

@SmaMan This is exactly what I'm saying. Thank you.

@dsparil Everyone has their own standard of when a nauseating lecture is warranted. Nintendo copying something that someone copied from them doesn't quite reach that level for me. But it is funny that in a way that they've done something they tell me not to do.

So people are firing at Nintendo for downloading their OWN IP from the internet to sell it? An IP that most likely was pirated from Nintendo in the first place?? Wow, why is this an issue?

Piracy? What nonsense! If you told me that the used somebody elses code in thier emulators that violayed some kind of creative commons copyright, sure, that's ethically interesting.

This? The only thing interesting about this story is that it highlights the gaming industry, and Japan in particular, has been notoriously bad at preserving their code and assets. A lot of it is just gone. Now, there are concerted efforts to find and preserve old content, as well as navigate how modern games with online modes and such are to be preserved for posterity.

I guess what you're trying to make an irony, that the devices that are used for piracy were instrumental in allowing Nintendo to revisit thier own code from the past, but I feel that's more akin to like "OMG! Nintendo writes their code in Microsoft Visual Studio on Sony monitors!" than anything really scandolous or hypocritical.

Emulation and ROM dumping is vital to preserve Videogame history. We wouldn't have access to 1/10 of the NES library if weren't for "pirates".

@chardir
exactly. what is the story here?

Stealing your rightful property from a thief. I love it.

If Nintendo did indeed use a downloaded ROM from the Internet, couldn't you argue that the uploader actually has intellectual property rights over the header data?

Isn't this old news? I remember reading about this at least a year ago.

Regardless of the moral issues, the idea that someone just ripped a rom off the internet and sold it, even if it's their file, it's just unprofessional and I feel jipped for buying it. Unless it's free I think I'm done with vc games.
Actually, an exception would be something like if it's like gcn which is near impossible to emulate, so i'd at least be impressed by their emulator and that'd be worth a few bucks.

...And? It's Nintendo IP's, and they can do whatever they want with it.

At most, @Spiders is right on the spot - the japanese companies never worried about a future with digital distribution until it was right on top of them. At worst, Nintendo decided to be lazy and maximize profit while minimizing costs.

@Yalaa actually it wouldn't be illegal for them to do this when they own the game. I know an author who found a pirated ebook of a trilogy and he turned it into his own ebook to sell.
Of course the likelihood of Nintendo doing this is very low.

@Petraplexity @jsa emulators and ripping your own ROMs still isn't quite as clear cut as that. But of course you can't actually play any ROMs on an emulator as that makes it not a back up anymore.

Nintendo owns it. Stupid story.

@yomanation except that the SNES emulator seemed to be open source, so they could use it just fine without being thieves

And I know about the ROM, but that's beyond the context, as the irony here is something official from nintendo using something they are against it.

Well, if nothing else this proves Nintendo isn't above taking a few shortcuts. If they did more of that maybe we'd have more than 2% of Nintendo's library on hand on the Virtual Console.

This is really not a big deal. If u need something thats already yours and have a more convenient way to acquire then, tough marbles to the haters. I look @ emulators as a way to play games from a bygone era that are no longer available any other way. If a 30 yr old game dev. doesn't make say Little Samson, or European Master system games available for purchase then, it's on them. I'm still gonna play it if I want too.

Don't be dumb. Nintendo had this code in their coffers; they just "borrowed" the iNES header format for convenience. Just look at DK complete edition. I doubt seriously they had developers working on hacking it in 2010 as some may suggest. No, they had this prototype game code floating around in their vault for 25+ years and decided it was time to release it.

Haha it's funny but hey it's their rom in the first place.
Modded wii, never heard of it 😉

Lmao, wow, people sure change their tunes really easily in defense of Nintendo. It used to be that people thought that VC was as close to 1:1 hardware emulation as possible, and that Nintendo had very high standards for what would be allowed. Now that we find out that no such standards ever existed, surprise, surprise, nary a soul brings up that old farce. Just a collection of hand waves giving waivers with an "oh well, Nintendo owns the copyright, no problems here..."

Issues like this is why I buy old games from GOG, and stopped buying from VC after the Wii. I only buy older games in this type of digital format if they fulfill the following criteria:

-DRM-free (includes no copy protection)
-Free extra DLC goodies related to the game with purchase
-Infinitely downloadable and reinstallable to anywhere, from anywhere that the purchased game installer has been relocated
-One world, one price
-Guaranteed refund if the game doesn't function properly, even after tech support

@rushiosan I think this is even more true for the Sega Saturn. Today, there are now two functioning emulators, and almost no game copies left. How else is someone supposed to experience the brilliance of golden oldies like Panzer Dragoon Saga? Sega lost the source code, the game will never get a remake.

The gaming industry has a horrible track record for archiving their own products. How ironic that those who are most derided and ridiculed may yet be among the saviors of gaming history, for helping to preserve it, and not giving in to the siren's song of planned obsolescence.

@jimi As much as I agree with everything you said, I'm afraid there's not much hope for backward compatibility since Nintendo has stated the Switch won't have backward combatibility with Wii U/3DS so probably no backward compatibility with Wii U VC as well.

Online ROMs LOOK better on our PCs than the blurry, darkened versions Nintendo dropped on the Wii and Wii U. If the Switch has a VC in some form, the oldies need a visual boost. Pixel perfect-y.

And they still have the balls to give us 1 fukn 30 year old game for only 1 month to play for the new nintendo subscribtion system.. Wow Just wow, cant you be a bit less greedy pls?

@jimi "Your example makes no sense.
When you had bought Goonies on VHS, you got a worse quality version than Goonies on DVD or Goonies on Blu-ray."

I have to think that the improvements to visual and audio fidelity is merely a bonus brought on by current technology, but not the reason to buy the DVD. The reason people buy the DVD of Goonies is because they don't use their VCR anymore (if it's even hooked up or around), and it's much more convenient, as it plays on current (at the time) hardware.

That's what people are paying for with Virtual Console titles, and HD remasters; convenience. Sure, you could pull out your old system if you've already bought the game and play it. Nobody's stopping you, but the convenience of sitting on your couch with your controller and operating system you use every day, and your used to, is worth the price. If everybody had to sit in front of their tvs with a 6 foot cord on standard def, 4:3, nobody would be playing those old games anymore, but extreme hobbyists, and that's no way to sell something that people still want.

@ruinez Lol, changes the whole value dynamic, doesn't it? "Here you go, have this random ROM we swiped off of the pirate bay, because we can't be bothered to use our own source code, assuming we hadn't tossed it out years ago and won't admit it... Now pay up."

@jsa - Uhm no...

If I write and publish a book, then you go to the library and make photocopies, that doesn't mean you get the rights to my published work.

@PlywoodStick - Yeah, all Nintendo did was create the property, write the code, publish and market the game, and file and maintain the copyright.

The guy on the website downloaded it from someone that did a ROM rip...so they did all the work and should get all the credit and profit, right?

@Action51 There's nothing wrong with Nintendo maintaining their property, that's not a point of contention. If anything, that's a distraction from the real issue here. Where's the original finished product of Nintendo's work that you're referencing, if that's not what they're using for VC?

I had assumed for years that they were using their own source code to create the closest to 1:1 emulation possible on non-native hardware. If that's not what they're doing, then they at least need to add in something more to make it a valuable proposition, following the example of companies like GOG.

As it stands, there's literally no significant difference in the source and quality of the product between playing a VC version of a game and using another type of emulation on a PC for home console games, or mobile with controller attachment for portable console games. There are many businesses that base their livelihoods on creating high quality products from high quality materials. I would have expected Nintendo to have their own high standards in the same vein, but apparently that isn't the case.

I thought I was getting a prime cut of sirloin code through VC, but it turns out all I was getting was a dressed up, reconstructed burger.

@Action51 I'm not sure you quite understand. To use your book analogy, if I made my own outer cover for that book which describes it (just as an iNES header data is added to a ROM to describe it) then I would own the copyright for the cover I made / header data I created, although not the book / ROM data itself.

@PlywoodStick yes it does it just changes the value by a lot... Thats probably not the only rom game.. It just shows how greedy + LAZY they are + charge money for their lazzines and cheapness..

@jimi
To be fair, Nintendo evaluated emulator performance per release on the VC. Castlevania III, for example is not using the exact same code as Balloon Fight. I'm not sure about the NES Classic NERD developed emulator, and if that will be used for the Switch going forward, but otherwise you're pretty spot on.
Wii VC RGB OUT to a CRT TV passes the Punch-Out lag test... for me anyway, who got past Super Macho Man maybe once in my life.

@ruinez
Changes the value how?
You're talking about Nintendo making or buying a ROM burner and a cartridge vs. downloading the results of the exact same process some else - who cannot legally profit by doing so - has already done.
That's just busywork, negligible cost, and sending someone to Akihabara. That cost difference spread over millions of downloads is a fraction of a cent.

Get real.

@Luna_110
It's funny - the more I thought about it the more I thought how much more of an interesting story that is. I remember there being an interview with someone on an 8-4 play podcast (I think) that was a big collector and now is involved in an effort to preserve games along with Internet Archive.
A story digging deeper into that would have been journalism. This is clickbait, from another site no less. Sigh.

@Spiders because they didnt want to put employees to make a rom instead they download it for free...

"lol Nintendo are a bunch of pirates themselves, I wonder how many other Roms they've downloaded from the Internet and sold them at the ridiculous eshop prices"

If this is true, then it is yet another epic fail for Nintendo. They are so lazy that they just get the roms from the internet, so they don't have to make them themselfes!

@DankPeezy
Well, no.
You can't play a game just because you want to, at any cost. It's not a given. Your will and desire should not overrule copyrights, ownerships, creative and commercial practices.