
The reaction to Nintendo Switch since its presentation has been mixed, it's fair to say. In terms of metrics such as 'Likes' on YouTube and vibes among my own acquaintances, family and friends there's been a positive response. Yet to browse some specialist sites and similar channels on YouTube (or even comments sections on Nintendo videos or Tweets) can tell a different story, with videos and articles on 'everything wrong with Switch' bouncing around. It's hard to distinguish between concerns shared by a majority, and those yelled by a vocal minority.
When it comes to the reality of broad public perception around Switch, widely-held opinions are likely somewhere in the middle between 'everything is awesome' and 'Nintendo is Nintendoomed'. On a personal level I've been frustrated by some of the videos and articles exclusively espousing the latter perspective, ranting about the trend to colleagues in our chat room. There are genuine issues with Nintendo's early presentation of the Switch, pricing and perhaps with the confirmed launch window games, but there have also been positives and there are people excited about it. When some commentators with a lot of influence go solely on the negative with little balance to their arguments, I can't help but feel irritated.

When it comes to the launch library, my opinion is "it's a game or two short, but it's not bad". Some people must have very short memories, because there have been previous console launches that have been truly dire, from Nintendo and - I have to say - also its rivals. Volume doesn't always equal quality, either, as the 3DS line-up was stacked with games that largely under-performed. The Switch has The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild as its tentpole release, and some other interesting games of different types; when you add 'March' and 'Spring' into your thinking, there are some solid games there. One significant missed opportunity is the lack of a concept pack-in, an argument I made in my 1-2-Switch first impressions article.
I'm not going entirely off topic there, though, as it brings me to what I believe is an undeniable problem with the system. I think a lot of the teeth-gnashing around the Switch has been amplified (and perhaps triggered) by a core problem, which is the fault of Nintendo and some third-parties - pricing. The Nintendo Switch is expensive, and I want to consider why it's considered to be rather pricey not only by some vocal critics, but inevitably also some quieter individuals interested in the system that are nevertheless hesitant about the cost.

Now, in the great Nintendo playbook of console releases, all of the pricing, accessories and strategies are right there in Chapter One: How to Launch a Console. Nintendo is a company that does not sell hardware at a loss, and considers its content to have sufficient prestige to command premium prices. I remember when the Wii launched, and though the system was a bargain compared to its rivals - because it was no doubt pretty cheap for Nintendo to manufacture - it was expensive to build up a collection. Sketchy games fell into bargain buckets, sure, but first-party titles were steep. Accessories, too, were tough to acquire if being careful with disposable income - until Wii Play came around I would scavenge controllers from my brother, as Remotes were quite expensive in the early days. As for Wii Fit, that board cost a decent chunk of change too.
I recall it being expensive for the first year or two, but then the initial virality of the system faded and its sales dropped to more sensible levels; games and accessories gradually slid down in price or appeared in bundles, and the market softened to make it more affordable. Then Wii U came, and I remember cringing at the initial cost, appeased by the fact my old Wii Remotes would at least work out of the gate.
The point is that systems are expensive at launch, and accessories can be too. Yet Nintendo, in sticking so rigidly to its playbook, has made a key error; it's behaving like it's 2006. Back then the Wii sold out as fast as stock arrived, add in the skyrocketing momentum of DS and Nintendo was top of the tree - it could charge premium prices and people would pay them, because it was a hot brand.
By the time 3DS came that had changed, and a disastrous post-launch sales window led to a dramatic price cut just months into its life. Again, Wii U was also expensive, but when it flopped there was no 3DS-style rescue, so it kept bombing. With that history in mind, Nintendo should have seen the hubbub about its pricing coming from a mile away.

When it comes to the numbers, across the board the systems and accessories are right at the top-end of what seems sensible in terms of pricing. When the recommended US price of $299.99 was given in the Presentation it was certainly an 'oh no' moment for me, because that would always be an issue when many had expected $249.99. Then came the interest in the fact that the Joy-Con Grip in the box wasn't the one that also works as a charger, but that it'd be an extra accessory.
Prices for Joy-Cons and the Pro Controller then emerged - about $80 for a pack with 'left and right' controllers, or around $50 for a single side, rather like buying a Wii Remote 'back in the day'. In the UK some of the prices feel particularly brutal, such as £60 for a Pro Controller (£65 at some retailers), while games have also been a bit of a hot topic. Games some expected to be budget titles at launch are hitting the $60 mark, while the brief sight of games at £60 on UK retail sites sent fans in the country into a bit of a meltdown, albeit retailers are competing and now backing off to around the £50 mark. In the UK this is part of a broader trend of some imported and online goods starting to cost more as a result of the pound's value, what some are calling the 'Brexit tax'. I'm not going to get into that in detail, but suffice to say things are getting more expensive than we're accustomed to in the UK, and the Switch prices are right up there.
A problem is that when something like 1-2-Switch is $49.99, on top of all the potential extra costs, many people need to then be picky and make choices on what they buy. In going right at the top-end of feasible pricing Nintendo and early third-parties are also gambling on early adopters to lump the costs, and often that is what happens. Consoles, as I've said, are always expensive to start off.
This is all conventional, by the book stuff from these companies, with Nintendo leading the way. The problem? The playbook is arguably out-of-date, based on market realities a decade old. The technology and entertainment industries are now dominated by a more-ish consumerism in which we can get so much for relatively little money. So much has slid down in price, driven by streaming in the likes of TV and music industries, that to be asked to stump up can be a shock, unless the brand happens to be Apple. If there's even a whiff of a product being a step or two short of meeting stringent and high expectations, along with having a premium price, the internet will make the point vociferously. Stepping outside of Nintendo remember No Man's Sky on PS4, a game that failed to deliver on some promises and expectations. If it had been a $20 game I suspect more would have shrugged off the disappointment, but it was priced and marketed as a retail game; vocal critics dragged out every conceivable criticism as a result.

With Switch, some of the criticisms and concerns are absolutely valid, but the whole pricing angle adds volume to that noise, amplifying it. For those that want a single game and perhaps an extra controller at launch the price is going beyond $400, so questions are asked. Is it good value? Is this device worthy of that sort of investment?
Nintendo and some third-parties have failed to step back and consider the consumer angle at launch, which as I've said is pretty much the norm. The difference now is social media, so early adopters or those turned off from being day one buyers voice their displeasure at the perception of being fleeced. It becomes a narrative.
It's clear that Nintendo's decision makers in these areas, sadly, either can't escape their bubble or choose not to. When you get the likes of Reggie Fils-Aime focusing on the financial perspective with the lack of pack-in games, you see timidity and strict internal policies at work. On paper the pricing is no doubt absolutely sensible - take manufacturing cost, the extremely clever technology in Joy-Cons, all of the baseline numbers, and you likely arrive at a $299.99 end-user price. Yet that inflexibility is the problem. The entertainment industry is now driven by subsidised hardware and services designed to drive user numbers. With a userbase comes support and solidity, and profits follow. The aggressive bundling and pricing of the newer 'slim' PS4 and Xbox One S models speak to this, and this is a world of cheap tablets and a number of devices and services at affordable prices, as driven by companies like Amazon and Google.
Whether you agree with the race downwards in prices or not, that's the market Nintendo is in. That's where it has to compete. Yet it's tackling the launch like it would in years gone by, with little regard for current realities. In a New Year's Resolutions article I hoped for a bold Nintendo that would be ambitious with the Switch, from pricing and bundles to producing plenty of stock. After a few years with some notable mistakes, I wanted the company to look at its impressive cash-rich resources and think, "let's go for it". Follow the aggressive tactics of other entertainment companies and draw in people on the fence, make Switch unmissable.
What we have instead, I think, is the standard Nintendo. Stock quickly became an issue in markets like the US with pre-orders selling out, pricing and bundles are a problem in terms of public perception, and the company is trying to charge at cost with a premium sheen.
I hope, as a Nintendo fan, that it will all ultimately pay off. If the launch sell-outs (which happen as standard with Nintendo hardware, whether it's successful long-term or not) lead to a strong sense of momentum, driven by releases like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2 into the summer, then great. More surprises are inevitably going to be revealed, so if the system gets to the Holiday season on a high and then has a great festive period with the likes of Super Mario Odyssey, even better. After the successful rescue of 3DS but the failure of Wii U, I suspect the vast majority reading these pages treasure the presence of Nintendo in the industry and want it to succeed with Switch.
Right now, though, it's hard to call. As I said at the top, discerning broad public opinion is tough, as positive metrics are offset by legitimate concerns and the somewhat hysterical expression of those worries in some quarters. It's difficult to figure out whether Switch will be in a good place after 1-2 months on the market, or whether it'll endure a 3DS / Wii U-style fall in post-launch momentum. If that slump comes, it's also uncertain whether Nintendo will take the necessary steps to save the situation or not.
I'm hoping for the best, personally, while being aware that the worst is a possibility. It's a pity, though - in sticking to its old rules Nintendo has banked on its prestige and brand power with premium pricing. What that's achieved is a backlash, and it feels like an own goal that was entirely unnecessary.
Comments 377
Lower Da Prices!
weather we all like it or not there are a lot of good and a lot of bad but its what we see in it and what the public can make of it but as it stands there is still a lot of things we want to know.
Fantastic article. This has pretty much voiced everything I've been thinking since the presentation.
Switch need a price cut after several months from first launching. For now, I will buy the game first, wait for cheap bundle with White or Blue color and then buy the Switch immediately.
A Wii Remote and Nunchuck set carried a pretty steep price back in the day around these parts as well.
420kr Wiimote plus 240kr Nunchuck made for a 760kr controller ($110)! By comparison, a GameCube controller or N64 controller used to cost 350kr.
Didn't know where to say, so I'll say it here, but...
http://yachtclubgames.com/2017/01/switch-at-pax/
Shovel Knight in Switch before April!
Now to read this article...
I will probably get Bomberman and 1,2 switch but a lower price would help the decision.. even though I will most probably pay the high launch price for them along with zelda
Wonderful article, Thomas. I initially was happy with the price when it was announced, but when I had to factor in the additional accessories and games, that price ballooned ridiculously. I would like to see Nintendo have a strong opening, but I worry the pieces are not there. Even I can't get behind 1-2-Switch, and I have bought almost every other gimmick out there.
The switch to me is a Wii U 2.0. You can take it with you and play it off of the TV but you could do the same with the Wii U with some limitations. They still have some type of motion controls, which isn't a bad thing. 1-2 switch looks okay but I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it. The price of the pro controller is absurd. The 3rd party games aren't there yet. Nintendo fans been calling for a Metroid games since the Wii and still no sign of it. Zelda is great, but everyone wants a new hard hitting Metroid game. Now that would be a console seller.
Breath of the Wild Amiibos sold out on nintendo Store UK immediately. . . . .
I bought my Gamecube in 2002 for £129?
15 years later a new much higher tech console for £279 is pro-rata correct for me.
The Switch is much higher Tech than PS4 or Bone ( all that crammed into that tiny , portable , oh-so-usable form factor ).
Also - remember - if the console is launched too cheap - everyone will complain later down the line when no price drop comes. . .
Nintendo have done the right thing. . .
The PS4 is a really decent system with a good breadth of content and a steady stream of rpgs/jrpgs (makes me happy). To pick up a 500GB PS4 Slim bundled with Uncharted and an extra controller and with PS+ subscription, it would cost me just under $400 with taxes... and I'll have a compelling library of budget titles to choose from waiting for me. I'll also be able to play Blurays, DVDs and stream content using a variety of multimedia apps. I can also upgrade storage on the cheap. PS+ = free games every month, not a trial period.
To buy a Switch, a game, an extra set of Joy-Cons and then buy a Micro SD card to bring the system to comparable storage levels, I'd have to shell out over $700. Not including an online subscription for the system. No Bluray or DVD playback, no Netflix or other multimedia streaming. The option for external HDD storage is disabled and may not happen.
Portability? How about a 'NEW' 3DS XL and a VITA (for which my PS+ subscription gives me free games every month.
Talk about a really hard sell.
@AlternateButtons I agree 💯. Some people only see the 💵 And don't think it though.
Forget about the launch library and look at the first year. This thing is going to be awesome.
@thanos316 you know e3 is a thing right? I doubt they have shown all of their cards.
Besides everything you mentioned there is the paid online subscription now that adds even more cost. I was very excited for the reveal, but the huge expense has actually driven me to pick up a PS4 bundle with a few cheap, but excellent games (~$300 total). I'll get Zelda for my Wii U and hope for a bundle or price cut sometime next year.
@Zoriam Hab Da Cake!!
@cfgk24 There is interesting and cool tech behind the controller options, but I certainly wouldn't say it's higher tech than the competition. They are different and have different strengths.
@Tsusasi those systems can't run the games this thing can without serious down porting.
I love the look of the Switch and many of the games excite me. I'm a die hard and I was likely to buy the Switch at some point regardless of public opinion.
But I'm going to put my Dad hat on here. If my son wanted this, I'd have to strongly consider this compared to other systems. I'm Canadian so its $450 with taxes out of the box. Then we would need a game or two and it's now nearing $600. That is a lot of money to spend when there are other options out there. I could buy him a 2DS and about 4 games for roughly $250 Canadian. I could also buy an Xbox 1 S with Minecraft and it would be about $300. Add in the fact you may want a pro-controller or a charging dock for the Joycon controllers and suddenly I'm struggling to justify spending $700 at launch for a system when so many other options exist. This is gonna be a struggle for parents to justify. I think young adults and die hards will snap this up in no time but I'm not sure how the broad public will view these prices. As a Dad, I'm not keen on investing in a system this expensive.
@Tsusasi well how much was the Xbox one and PS4 at launch?
Disappointed, but not surprised. Money was always more important than consumers. Iwata used to say they needed to get back to "Nintendo-like" profits. He later defined that as $1 billion USD. The irony of this definition of course is Nintendo only made that much profit for the first 5 years of the Wii.
Considering a new 3ds xl is 200 and the Switch has way more bells and whistles, including a dock that transfers data to a tv, I think the price is very reasonable.
@faint
i do know about E3 and what I was saying is that they show games that they showed when revealing the Wii U. They have the apple motto with the smiling faces and the different colors in their ads and on their box art. Nintendo needs to know that they are other players in the game except for Sony and Microsoft.
You nailed it here: " I wanted the company to look at its impressive cash-rich resources and think, "let's go for it". Follow the aggressive tactics of other entertainment companies and draw in people on the fence, make Switch unmissable.
What we have instead, I think, is the standard Nintendo. "
I strongly doubt that this Nintendo could save itself...
Even the more optimistics cannot hide the fact that the launch did not globally produce that WOW that was needed...
The price of the system seems fine, seeing as you're getting the most powerful handheld ever that also doubles as a console and technically comes with two controllers, AKA the JoyCons, but some accessories like the dock could be a lot cheaper.
Like others are saying, the price is fine. The main issue is the small number of big games during its launch window. I was thinking about picking it up at launch but recently decided not to since I won't play it much when I'm done with Zelda.
I'll be picking it up when I get back home for summer break. By that time I'll have more time to play it and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and other titles will be available.
1-2 Switch just screams pack-in. Asking $50 for that game is just asinine to me. If it was the pack-in that it should have been, the price wouldn't look so bad.
We as the fans need to speak with our wallets and tell them these prices are absurd and unacceptable. I will not buy the switch until it's price drops. Is Nintendo blind to the competition i can and just might opt to buy a ps4 with a game and still have money left over to buy Zelda on wii u. Nintendo will desperately drop the price because they are stuck with the switch for5 years and need to sell their software all 5 games that they will develop In switch lifecycle anyway.
I mean come on guys. Out of the box you get a home console machine. On top of that it turns into a portable. Home console games on the go! Detachable joy-con controllers with more tech than I can remember in them, and there isn't one but two controllers so no need to buy another for two player play! And again there is the dock which isn't just a dock. There's tech in it too. 300 is reasonable. A game packed in would have been great, but its not an extreme stretch in price. Its just Nintendo is seen as so inferior there is no reason their brand new home console should be 300 and it has great potential.
Excellent article. I am getting a Switch come Day-1, however... What might have very well been something I'd have gotten for each of my (4) kids (all have their own rooms and tvs and personal tastes) and myself has turned into a 1-unit purchase which is likely going to be simply for myself to test out until Summer (Splatoon 2 releases then) or the holiday season when Mario releases to determine if it will truly be worth the additional expenditure for the kids. My kids and I still avidly play our 3DS systems and Wii U and other vintage Nintendo systems and handhelds, but the Switch makes me pause as I need to know it will be a worthwhile investment to shell out what will equate to $1200 USD before games are even factored in. I already have plenty of titles to be interested in but my kids are far more finicky. None were interested in 1,2 Switch (a game that might've been good for them to play with friends) and many of the other early offering don't hold their appeal. They want Splatoon 2 and Mario. They said they were fine with Fire Emblem Warriors on their 3DS systems and they already have Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U to play together, so this makes me think twice now. And don't get me started on the system's extra accessories...
I find it pretty funny people comparing the Switch with a PS4. "Oh, i can buy a PS4 with a last year game and that and that and pay less than the Switch" Well, no sh&t, it's a 3 yo system, that actually launched at $400, if it was not cheaper now it would have died.
The Switch's launch price is just right, there will be some bundles during the Holidays, with 1-2-Switch, BotW, or something, and the same price, but right now, it's launching, get over the price people, technology costs money.
I'm very broken, ohh yeah
(an that's before buying the switch mind you xD)
@faint
That Switch/PS4/Xbone argument really only works in the Switches favor for people who place a high value on the portability. If you are a home console gamer, currently the PS4/Xbone are priced cheaper than the Switch, are more powerful, and have a better selection of games.
Different people think different things are fair, so I won't weigh in on the price point except to say that it is disappointing that the converted US price would be $256. So Nintendo does seem to be gouging the US. I couldn't find Japanese accessory pricing, but my guess is those are marked up here too.
So take your X! or PS4 outside - impossible ? That`s the power of Switch. Just understand this.
I'll probably get the switch next year. Nothing currently announced has me excited.
In Canada, the Switch + one game will probably be something like 520 dollars. Unless you want to just buy the system and stare at the menus. This issue could've probably been fixed by having a pack-in game.
Anyone who thinks 12 switch should have been a pack in is also wrong that game shouldn't have even been developed. Waste of time and resources.
I plan to get a Switch, but I don't approve of how Nintendo's handling the console. The only two games I plan to buy for the system this year (as of now) are Splatoon 2 and Breath of the Wild, and I can't justify a $300 purchase with versions of those games on Wii U, and the rest of the lineup either needs more information (ARMS) or a lower price point. Most importantly, I don't understand why there is no $200 Switch bundle with just Joy-Cons and the Switch tablet, especially when the Dock is being sold separately for $90. The portability of the system is a HUGE selling factor, and a lower price point would have been perfect.
I was hoping for a lower price point, but can accept the £280 launch price. However, the price of the accessories such as pro controller and joy-cons is ridiculous. Also, after having the 3DS as my main go to system over the past few years the price of Switch games is a little steep. I usually pay around £30 for a new 3DS game but have preordered Zelda for £50. I won't have many games for the Switch at these prices.
What surprises me the most is people acting like they'll beat Zelda in a week and have nothing to play. At least for me, I'll bet its going to be a month since I work in the week and get home late.
Well, every one knows their own budget and circunstances.
Zelda, Mario, FE:W and some third parties like Sonic, Disagea and Skyrim will keep me busy this year.
The price is amazing for a handheld WiiU...but woefully expensive for a WiiU home console. I think many critics are still trying to crow bar the Switch in to a pre determined pigeon hole, whereas the reality is, it is creating a new pigeon hole and one that no matter how much in to games they are...there is no way of knowing because it's a new proposition. And god forbid a youtuber saying they don't know.
@Tsusasi I wasn't thinking about that. You almost convinced me to Switch my purchase over to PS4! (Seriously though, even if they are not "competing" with Sony and Microsoft, they need to modernize, and fast, if they want the Switch to sell well!) I have seen NOTHING new with the Switch that will cause non-Nintendo fans to buy. (Besides the portability, of course, but most games on the Switch are multi-platform.)
im planning to buy the Switch after launch, i like some ideas, i dislike some like the mobile one. not a fan of the paid online service, all the controllers are expansive as hell too. i only do it, so i can play Nintendo games and exclusive third parties for the switch, the others i can already get on XBONE, PC or PS4.
Spot on article. I'm still planning to get a Switch, but Nintendo has largely disappointed me in their presentation.
Playing it safe doesn't cut it anymore. They could've gone all in, cutting the price to 250, having a pack-in title, announcing awesome Virtual Console and a lucrative paid online service. People would rush to buy the console. The profits would've come later with a larger install base and consequently more games sold.
Darn it, Nintendo. I'm simply sad my favourite company is screwing up that much.
As a business, does it make sense to start with a lower price and lose a bunch of money out of the gate or should they start with higher prices and lower them if things go south like they did with the 3ds? I think the latter approach is probably more sensible. A lot of Nintendo fans like me will pick up the system at launch no matter what. If need be, they can lower the price before the first holiday season.
If you look at it objectively, the Switch has much more good that bad, but I feel like the opinions of you at Nintendo Life are being influenced by some idiotic Youtubers.
Two issues. Value for money and Mario Kart 8 deluxe.
A Switch with a game and a pro controller is easily affordable for me, but it is not good value. And the Deluxe Mario Kart is a very poor release for the Switch in its early days because most gamers will own a copy and the feeling of being ripped off by Nintendo will not help their situation.
Nintendo's plan is to satisfy all the fans of Zelda who have been waiting two years, they will buy the console first, than a slow trickle of sales as new games are released and the big campaign will come at Christmas with a Mario bundle and offers.
@Luna_110
I'm sill stuck in the Water Temple. 😅
We only expected 249.99 because of all the rumors, doesn't mean it was right. I have no problem with the price of the system. It's what Nintendo deems to be fair value. I do however have problems with some games and accessories.
The prices are fine people, so shut up with all the doom and gloom! The freakin' system isn't even out yet. Nintendolife themselves just a few articles before this posted a video highlighting the 'bad things' about the Switch. Heaven forbid we have to shell out a little bit of cash for a nice toy in 2017 where the self-entitled reign supreme!
I really enjoyed a lot about the Switch reveal (MK8 on the go) but agree that Nintendo priced it at the top of the comfort zone.
The Joy-Cons are packed with tech and the $80 is reasonable but I'm going to wait to see if 2 is really needed & used (still feeling the Sega CD & 32X burn).
Where I think they dropped the ball is the lack of info on online, not showing the OS & nothing on virtual console. If they would of announced GC games coming to the e shop, people would of been so psyched. Right now it's a lot of unknowns and faith for that much $$$.
With that said, they've got my money & looking forward to Day 1. Nintendo don't fail me now!
A good pack in game would have really helped take the edge off the systems price. No matter what you are always going to have angry you-tubers screaming abuse from their mums basement. They are not really the type of people I would take life advice from though.
I can live with the console price - the pricing of software and accessories is what has kept me from pre-ordering. Especially the accessories: building a halfway workable collection of Wii U accessories was excessively expensive, and honestly a little confusing (fun fact: the full Wii U controller compatibility chart was the fourth language on the Rosetta Stone). I'm not ready to slap down similar money to get even less.
Knowing how inflexible Nintendo is with software pricing, I just don't know whether I have the will to constantly price watch to get games at something approaching the £30 I'm comfortable with paying for games. £50 to £60 isn't just competing with other game pricing, or nights out or entertainment. It's competing with the train fare to go and see friends and family for the weekend, for instance. So it's come to this Nintendo: you've made me feel old af.
The launch game is also out on Wii U at the same time, and that has a 2nd screen.
I feel the Ps Vita could be a salvation of sorts for the Switch , with its death There's an audience that will be looking for that steady supply of jrpgs on the go and publishers who are after a new device to release on, if disgea 5 brings in that audience then that will bode well for more support to come, a monster hunter or two Wouldn't harm either.
Until you realize that you are buying both a home system and a portable system at the same time. The $299.99 price us a bit steep, but not unreasonable. All of the tech in the Switch(except for the IR camera thing on the bottom of the right joycon) are either standard or revolutionary(even if by a small degree). Imagine in 2006 imagining what the 2017 Switch would be like? It's incredible! I do get that it is 2017 and not 2006, but the Switch should not(and probably will not) be brushed off or put to the side like the WiiU was. It still has plenty going for it. I just can't wait to see what Nintendo has in store for us
Sadly at $470 AU for just the system with nothing else its just too much. I can get a standard PS4 cheaper with a game or a PS4 pro for $90 more with a game. Will wait for the price drop if that even happens.
@Spoony_Tech Agreed. Another reason to hate rumormongering.
I don't see whats so bad about the pricing considering that you are essentially getting a portable and a console in one plus the tech within the system itself is pretty advanced.
https://mynintendonews.com/2017/01/16/syrenne-mcnulty-a-nintendo-switch-developer-shares-further-details/
According to this dev Nintendo has the Switch set up in such a way that price cuts are possible while maintaining profitability.
I share some of the same thoughts as the author in that I can't help but get irritated seeing youtubers and naysayers in general latch on to any bit of negativity with little to balance out their arguments.
To put forums in to perspective. A 200 page Neogaf thread might only comprise of about 40 posters living in a clique. Yet they are so drowning in their self importance that in the face of a business targeting 5 million new customers...they can't see their irrelevance.
@GamePerson19 Totally agree with you. I love my Wii U but it did feel like a toy at times. I mean paint the game pad green & everyone would think I've got a leap frog. The Switch feels very different from that.
@ThomasBW84 http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-uk-cuts-price-for-mario-kart-8-deluxe-other-switch-games/
Is this what you are referring to kind of as in what you want even if the Switch itself isn't discounted? In any case, glad to see that more people will be able to buy a Switch and its games more easily :+).
I think "doomed" is an over reaction, however Nintendo has thrown all it's console eggs into one basket by merging the handheld line, and if they have another failure they may end up a game developer like Sega.
I learned my lesson with the Wii U, I will wait to see if it fails before I buy. Of course, if everybody does that, it will fail. That however is not my concern.
the more and more I read these articles,I feel tempted to buy..but also there's alot of stress with the prices..the console price is understanding..but the game prices and accessories are where it's on the pricey end.
March can't come fast enough..only time will tell..and more information.
@Nintendofan83 The marketing does seem to be aimed at 20-30 somethings. There are no kids in the Adverts ( only big - kids like me). Sure - I would buy my kid a 2ds or 3ds loads of games for those and great prices. . . Me? I'm buying myself a Switch for me, myself and I alone ( ok - I'm getting my wife one too ).
First off, great article Tom! I like how you presented a fairly balanced and calm view on the situation, without resorting to the narrative you've mentioned in the article. However...
I'm starting to get a bit annoyed by all this "it's too expensive" talk. While I of course agree that the Switch is not cheap, I never expected it to be in the first place. I mean, come on, it's a new piece of tech/gadget/game-thingie! Stuff like that is always expensive. Why is this even a topic of discussion? I'm really starting to feel that a lot of the "it's too expensive" talk is actually thinly veiled "I don't want to spend money" complaints... I know that's a bit unfair of me to say (since, again, I too realize that it is expensive) But by golly I'm really getting annoyed by it. Mostly since I feel that a lot of the "too expensive" talk is all rather baseless and no real argument is built for it. It's all "because" and "it should be cheaper" without any additional foundation for those assertions. I mean, for gosh's sake, people are already expecting price cuts not even a year into the darn thing's life time... Really?
And all this is not helped by the echo-chamber effect I'm seeing. It seems that people are just reinforcing each other's view, just like with the rumours. See the pattern here? If enough people keep saying it, it becomes its own, baseless reality.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Just needed to vent a bit. I personnally think it's not cheap either, but I believe it will be worth it.
The console price was expected to come in at 250-300 US dollars. I think the speculation of 250 was just a consideration of how aggressive Nintendo might try to be at building a user base up quickly. The console at 300 is not cheap, but not unfair and not unexpected. It's the accessories that could put people off. It's debatable whether the accessories are priced too high or not(my opinion is they're too high). The dock is most certainly priced too high. The problem is if Nintendo gives the impression that the Switch products are too high. It doesn't matter how much tech is in the controllers if people don't want to spend that kind of money for controllers. I've seen criticism of the accessory pricing on various sites and among possible buyers, and I do think it is a real issue to people rather than just typical internet complaining.
I thinks the main problem is Nintendo's insistence of launching mod generation consoles. If they launched besides the other consoles, the current price wouldn't have been an issue. Launching mid gen creates a situation that Nintendo cannot compete value wise against Sony and Microsoft
The Switch is looking like the Vita to me. I am not buying it at launch, and will wait at least a year to snag one because I don't appreciate having to foot the bill....again.....for storage space on the system. Storage space is the ENTIRE reason I just finally broke down and got a vita last month. I didn't appreciate the price of memory cards for Vita, and I don't appreciate them for the Switch. People will say the memory is pretty cheap for the Switch, but the truth is, no it isn't. Sure, it is a lot easier to get a 64 gb card for switch than vita, but that card is a lot less useful on a Switch than the vita's was.
So ultimately, Nintendo is going to price out the non hardcore people interested in their system. They are showing Sony levels of hubris, and that seldom ends well. I will pick up the games I feel will go extinct before I get a switch, and other than that, just like I don't have a ps4 yet, I will get one before I get a switch.
@faint
"well how much was the Xbox one and PS4 at launch?"
Its not about comparing launch prices, its about how much value vs the price it has now compared tobthe competition.
I'm ok with $299 for the system. It's the peripherals that I'm frustrated with. I guess I'll just do without any extra controllers which means I won't buy Mario Kart. Wasn't it Reggie that said an extra dock would be available and competitively priced?
@diwdiws the other two have been out for years. With that logic the wiiu had more value than they did when they came out.
People seem o forget that the PS4 and Xbox One launched at >£350 and they sold like hotcakes
@Dakt so the wiiu was a better value when than the PS4 or Xbox when they released?
You skipping this one @JaxonH ? I skipped over the article looking for your comment figuring you would be blaming it all on me. I'm not even sure I need to read it w/ that title, and besides, I already told you $300 was fine, it's the slim launch line-up that's the issue. Oh well, guess I'll go read it anyway.
@diwdiws They wouldn't have done that if the Wii U wasn't a dismal failure and died years before it should have.
@legendwaker ...'and there isn't one but two controllers so no need to buy another for two player play! '
You do if you want to play Arms.
"When some commentators with a lot of influence go solely on the negative with little balance to their arguments, I can't help but feel irritated."
Maybe you should have reread that sentence before putting the word "Blunder" in the title @ThomasBW84
"Pricing has become the narrative about the Switch" might have irritated you less when you read it.
Bloody he'll this article is a wast of time and a brain headache.Nintendo never said anything about price of Switch at $250 ect.That's rumors mill and media driving it and thirsty.And that means you nintendo life.Gamers casual or hardcore don't need this messy crap.Nintendo needs to show £280 is worth the price.And it most certainly is for a home portable hybrid.Xbox one controllers are £60 with charging kit and last 8+.The 2nd gen PS4 is £50 with bad 5 hour battery life ect.The 2 Joycon's are as good as vive motion ones or oculus move witch are £180+ for 2. £74 For 2 Joycon's which are far superior in teck ect.But as always it's stuiped people on online sites who do anything to destroy nintendo because of there Hate,And it's media who are to blame to. I'm bloody sick of it. I looked at gamers young and old at treehouse event's from Japan and U.S and london,and podcasts on YouTube done after the events.20 hour's in total.All I could see was happy happy people enjoyin themselves and the for vast majority I heard from both hardcore media ect that the Switch was a blast.For once can we just enjoy are moments without you nintendo life making a meal out of it just for views
@faint during the launch? Value wise, yes and no. Wiiu was cheaper and had more games during the launch of the Xbone and PS4 but the public already percieved the WiiU as a floundering console at the time so it has a percieved lesser value. You cant really compare that to the current situation where Switch is launching against successful competitors.
I know I've said this before but I'll say it again in lieu of the spirit of the article. Like Thomas said, Nintendo kinda botched pricing of the Switch. $300 instead of $250 isn't ideal but it works. Up north a bit in Canada and the Switch is $400. Games in general up here are more pricey than in the States but $400 is ludicrous for most of the consumers that Nintendo is trying to target and everyone else that is on the fence about the Switch. It's very disheartening and I hope Nintendo rectifies the price before they turn off too many people, in Canada and the rest of the world
@KirbyTheVampire yeah that may be. But regardless of the reason why, the problem of mid gen launch still haunts them. They need to find a way to sync their releases with the competitors.
I don't get why they feel they don't have to compete with other consoles. On PS4, I can get Bloodborne or Witcher 3 for $20 during a sale, which happens on nearly a monthly basis. Then I check the eshop and see Captain Toad for like $47.50 when the rare sale happens. I also got a bunch of gold points from digital purchases which...I can use to save 30% on one 25-year-old game of Nintendo's choosing?
Plus PS+ gives as many as 6 games per month if you have all their consoles. The discussion around Nintendo's service is that maybe you'll get one NES or SNES game that you borrow for a month and lose? Are they not paying attention or do they not care? The presentation last week was a great chance to show that Nintendo was giving a good value along with a good product. With no pack-in titles, why not include some virtual console items? Give up some copies of Super Mario World or something to buy yourself some much needed good will.
What grinds my gears the most is that the Joy-Con grip bundled with the system isn't the chargeable variant. Nintendo, you could've given us at least that.
The price in the UK is much higher even after the drop in the pound.
Clearly incorrect to call it a "Brexit tax". Modern journalism I guess. Narratives and slogans are nicer than facts.
Great article!
Those leakers didn't help, mis-managing public expectations with their inaccurately low pricing predictions.
What Nintendo needs is a European or American CEO, with a far less conservative mindset who is willing to take more risks. (But that's not going to happen.)
@Dezzy As I mentioned in a previous Comments, the 279.99 U.K. price is a combination of Brexit (the pound is now worth around US$1.25 whereas before Brexit it was about US$1.50) PLUS 20% VAT.
In the US, sales tax (their equivalent of VAT) is added AFTER the MSRP of US$299.99. This sales tax varies by state (and potentially city).
For example, in New York City it's 8.875% so the Switch costs US$325.54.
In New Hampshire it's zero so the Switch costs US$299.99. (That state raises taxes via other means such as property, car registration, tourist attractions and hard liquor).
Here's a link on this if you'd like to learn more...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States
I'm getting tired of the words 'entitled', 'cheap' etc being tossed at people who are disappointed in the prices for the console and peripherals.
Not eveyone can drop $400+, especially when they aren't sure of so many things.
There are so many sanctimonious posts basically calling people who have concerns or are disappointed over the pricing brats. Some go so far as to call others stupid.
I was reading another thread where someone was arguing that another poster had wasted his money because he had a baklog of games! Jeebus.
This place just aint fun no more.
@Luna_110 I actually sold my PS4 today, kinda bummed but I wasn't playing it anymore - just didn't have the time. And I wanted to get the Switch. Zelda will keep me very busy - probably take me a couple of years to finish. And I want that Mario game!
@Tsusasi you don't need extra joycons(you do get 2 fully seperate joycons that can be used as fully fledge controler. unless you have a family that wants to play.What makes me laugh is If you buy xbox one or PS4 you only get one controller. £50 for 5 hour ps4 which has stupid touch pad and dozy light.Xbox one costs £60.2 Joycon's cost £74 and have the same teck is that of vive controler or oculus move costing £180+.Your not forced to buy pro controler. The Switch is a two 2in1 home console and portable hybrid. PS4/xbox is only I device.So how in he'll can you say it's dear. Zelda is worth the price.Best place shop is amazon £10 cheaper.Stop tallking rubbish
@diwdiws my point is this is an acceptable price for launching hardware.
@k8sMum
I assume a lot of these people treat Nintendo like a religion and just assume everyone can shell out 300+ dollars on superfluous entertainment devices. Either that or they're just young kids who have video games and systems bought for them and no knowledge of the value of money, cost of living, the importance of saving, etc
I don't mind paying the amount Nintendo has asked for. It's just that I have no reason to spend that much in the Switch's current state.
Super Mario Odyssey will help, but I imagine I'd need a little bit more to really be persuaded, which means I probably won't be getting the Switch for it's first year on the market. Considering how much I tend to like Nintendo, I just can't imagine how the mainstream market will react.
I will say though, that the controller prices are bogus. I think the same thing of the other consoles' controllers.
@Tsusasi I think your math is wonky:
Switch = $300
extra controller= $80
new Zelda game = $60
is $440. Are you spending $260 on a micro SD card? If you don't go for the latest and greatest, can get 64GB for $20, or 128 GB for $40, 200 GB for $80, or well I do see 256GB for $200, but the price per value is obviously not in that item. Memory gets cheaper over time, and Nintendo tends to compress games well, so you shouldn't need that level of storage, especially at the beginning. We're talking the costs of ~2 player entry level gaming, here. It is pricey, but not nearly as inflated as you make the costs out to be.
Plus, with Switch controllers you have the capability for 2 players per control, so it's 2-4 players as opposed to PS4's 2 controllers= 2 players. Or you could potentially skip the extra joycon set for a time if needed, the only main reason for it now would be either large multi (bomberman) or Arms.
I will pay for a quality product no matter how much it costs. My parents raised me to think cheap was better, yadda yadda yadda, but my experience with costly versions has always been positive, whereas my peers have always been about cheaper versions and I've seen things turn out badly for them. Or maybe this is just my excuse for turning out spoiled. Who knowzzzz~
Anyway, onto my point. A friend and I were talking about Switch' pricing, we both thought it wasn't a big deal. But then my friend literally mentioned that Switch is cheaper than New 3DS. And I checked out some examples online. It might be because of Brexit, it might not. But truth of the matter is Switch has been priced at around the same range as New 3DS. In spite of all it can do/is capable of. I think I get where Nintendo was going with this...
I just want the Pro Controller to be available for purchase.
"A problem is that when something like 1-2-Switch is $49.99, on top of all the potential extra costs"
Ok, I understand that game should have been a pack-in, but what is that last part meant to mean for a game like this, that doesn't actually need anything else other than what you'd get in the Switch unit?
@edgedino thats quite some mindless rambling you've got there
@EXP how much did you pay for your phone or television? Did you get them brand new when they first hit the market?
@faint yes it is an acceptable launch price IF it launched alongside the competition. People look for value against other products hence the complaints.
Dear Thomas,
Can you arrange some sort of deal with the internet whereby you write all the articles from here on?
It genuinely saddens me that the clear-headedness, perspective, and balance of your editorials seems almost entirely confined to... well, your editorials.
Over much of the wider internet, it seems like people try to make their opinions deliberately more UNbalanced and incendiary as time goes on... Maybe it pulls in views or subscribers, but it feels people are more interested in developing a battlecry than a considered argument.
As for the price, I think you're pretty on the money. I can forgive the machine being a bit pricier than many were hoping (I thought £250 seemed ideal - £200 would have been unrealistic as this clearly isn't in the same feild as the original Wii). But when EVERYTHING is a notch more expensive, it gets pretty offputting pretty fast. £60 for a game seemed absurd, especially for those of us still stuck in the days where 40 was home console RRP and 30 was portable. I know this is technically both, but I was hoping that wouldn't mean adding them together (yes, 70, I know).
Thankfully things seems to be coming down now, and I hope that continues, but it was a bit of a shock at first and stripped a lot of the wind from my sails; I was so ready to swoop in on the purchase - no questions asked - but having to consider all the incremental price increases makes me consider how much I really need the thing in question. Which is the exact opposite of what unbridled hype achieves.
As a company on the back foot, but with a lot of anticipation coming up the event, it's disappointing to see that it's lost much of momentum.
@Dezzy: It would be dishonest to write an article featuring the pricing of the system in the U.K. without mentioning how the fall in the pound attributed to the Brexit vote has effected it. The increase in the price of goods is a wider phenomenon of which this is a part, and is well documented. Often, companies are raising their prices more than the corresponding fall in the pound would warrant. I believe Apple are doing this with the App Store. Whether this to protect against any future dips, or merely to try and squeeze a little more from the consumer is unknown, but when this is only happening to the UK and no other regions, it seems understandable that people believe the price hike is attributable to the vote, and is therefore labelled 'Brexit tax' (of course, not literally a tax, but definitely Brexit related).
Thomas merely mentioned that this phenomenon and left it at that. I don't believe that shows him being bent to any narrative.
Nintendo products have always been sold higher in the U.K. than a straight conversion from USD would justify. Now that the gulf between the currencies is higher than any product launch in a long time, the UK has got hit even harder as a result. Touching on this, and on the reasons why is to be expected, and I don't think qualifies as any sort of modern journalistic spin.
@diwdiws new console tech is acceptable regardless. This will play and do things the others won't and they will have and do things this won't. It's still a new piece of tech. When the Scorpio comes out (assuming they charge 300) it will be worth it for the launch technology.
@Dakt my point is this is an acceptable price for a new launch
Superb article.
I'm still getting the Switch day 1 but even I think the price in Canada is stupid. Thank god I have Amazon Prime and get 20% off games but I will probably have no games at launch since I can't afford both the console and a game.
Is true, prices are high when you consider Xbox S and PS4 Slim can be found at $250. Nintendo is indeed again cashing on its brand power without noticing that its brand is not what it use to be. Also, people please stop buying virtual console games. If you keep paying premium for the same games in every console iteration Nintendo will never put a dedicated account system I we fans will have to keep buying the same games forever. Lets as fans and consumer send a message to Nintendo that if they don't let us transfer or have our already paid games on Switch we will not support its Virtual Console. We should start either a petition or a movement about this.
I have the Switch pre-order but now I fear it will not sell and Nintendo do an Ambassador on early adopters. I think I will cancel it.
I think, the saddest thing is seeing something as stupid as videogames being turned into some kind of class warfare, with people attacking each other because they are willing/they are not willing to spend money on technology.
I mean, I thought watching people pretending they are milking cows on 1-2-Switch was the saddest thing of the week, but this tops it...
@Syrek24
Or it may represent consumers who have stuck with Nintendo thru thick and thin and are upset at the handling of the WiiU fiasco. How many games took full advantage of that controller? Perhaps they are worried that all the tech packed into the joycons will amount to nothing more than counting ice cubes and marbles or milking imaginary cows.
.
It's called an opinion. You state yours as facts. Doesn't make them anything more than your opinion.
The console price is fine. Getting Zelda at launch should be more than enough for now. Might get another game but on the fence for now. The joy cons are two controllers on their own so don't need an extra set.
But hey people want to over react. The only negative to me is not including 1,2. Switch with the system
@Dakt I think the problem resides in that Nintendo is really stubborn when it comes to its products and price. They never put their games in a sale the only time you see that is when the Nintendo Selects version comes out which is years later. Meanwhile PS4 and Xbox you just wait one or two months and you find the game at a cheaper price.
@Dakt
That's about 20% retention for a expensive mobile game that has a 4% retention rate as the norm... not bad 🙂
I'll state my opinions...$300 is not that bad considering it's a console and a portable...buy both separate, and the total will be way over $300. As far as the accessories go, they'll go down in price within a year or so, as soon as other companies make cheaper versions. If the price is high, and no one purchases it, nintendo will lower the price (although they never usually do for anything they make...unless it's 3-4 years later). As far as the launch games go, yeah, more is sometimes not that great, and most systems release with one good game and the rest being garbage...look at the PS2 when it released...most of the launch titles had horrible sound, almost no music or sound, and are now very cheap to find in stores or online, because they were garbage at the time. 3DS launched horrible...only 2 games here at launch and the store was 4-6 months later being added onto the system...but the price went down and it began selling...apparently nintendo didn't care about the Wii U so much, as if that price actually lowered to $200, it could have actually sold a little more, but the lack of 'telling' people about it, also made it fail. The Switch won't see strong sales until the holiday...unless Mario Odyssey gets delayed into 2018, which knowing nintendo, it will. 2018 will show the system's strengths and if it will be a hit or not. They could sell out at launch, but how many of those systems will be sold online for high prices or traded in months later...and as the prices in the retail launch games...they'll go down within a few months (not Zelda, but the others will). 1, 2 Switch will become the Wii Play of the Wii era...it will become a $10 or less game in the used section of stores. I guess an easy way to state my opinion is this...if you think it's too high in price and the games are too high in price...DON'T PURCHASE IT AND WAIT INSTEAD!!!! The Holidays will come then, the price will be cut with a nice bundle for that time, pick up the console then and be happier!!!!
@Dakt I totally agree with you as much as it pains me because I am a super fan but Nintendo seems to be living in the past with the same strategies like for example they are again counting on Mario to push them throughout the holiday season and that didn't help the Wii U at all when they release Mario 3D World for it at Christmas. I hope I am wrong but I think I will just wait and see. I am Wii U and 3DS early adopter and even though I played a lot both consoles I still feel a little salty about both releases.
@Jessica286 That's nintendo...in their own little world and wanting as much money as they possibly can...which shows what they really care about, money, not the players or fans...if they truly cared about the players and fans then they would have tried better with the Wii U and some of their other franchises would have been brought back to life. Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft only want the money, they could truly care less about the fans...they want the money, just like Retail Stores!
@Dakt the wiiu had many issues unrelated to cost
@faint Ps4 and Xbox One launch prices are irrelevant when the switch is being shoved in mid-gen, they are the direct competition to the switch with better performing, better libraried systems right now.
I want a switch, especially with the fire emblem news yesterday, but I doubt Joe public will jump in as fast as I.
32GB storage is terrible. Battery life is terrible. Launch games are generally terrible. Ported wii u mario kart is terrible. Console price + any add ons is terrible.
Having said all of that, Im bearish on the switch at launch but bullish on it at christmas time with a bundled mario game and more games on the market.
I would have preferred a $400 price tag but with the most advanced tech available. At $300, there is bound to be a cutback somewhere. A smart phone costs from $600 to $800. $300 is more than reasonable for a piece of tech that operates like a tablet with REAL gaming power. Not simple app store games, but real games. Let's be realistic though, a lot of people complain about wanting super hi tech processors but also want to pay a low price. Essentially many want a $1000 top of the line PC, but to purchase it at $250? c'mon lets be realistic. I think the switch is more than priced right.
@Dakt
I was going off your numbers actually. Nintendo's mobile preference is fine for now. Little by little more IP's will be introduce to diversify the revenue stream... At least that is my opinion of course.
Instead of going on a rant rampage, this guy explains my thought and feelings very thoroughly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A31sXNX2Ws&t=914s
What I like about his vid is that he also suggests what Nintendo could do to improve in order to safe the situation. It's just too bad that Nintendo probably won't listen. It's a company too stuck in it's ways and to slow to react.
@Syrek24 The Wii u cost £250/300 the Wii cost £180/200.And people think Switch for £279.99 with Custom built Nvidia GFORCE Gcard new Architecture new API new tools ect.Amazing joycon teck,amazing 6.2inch screen ect as said in treehouse events .No instalation of your games on hard drive and don't have to be connected to Internet in order to install them.
Will you even need an extra pair of Joy Cons until Arms comes out? I guess Bomberman and Mario Kart, but for me I'm holding off until then.
@JLPick Attempting to maximize revenue is not being in one's own little world; it's what multi-billion yen corporations that are answerable to shareholders do.
Nintendo is actually doing something clever here, as where we previously had one console per household, this opens up the opportunity for multiple purchases in the same household, just like each family has their own iPhone or Samsung, etc. While I'm excited about the switch, my pocket book is definitely gonna take a hit. Dang it. This is definitely putting me in the hate/love it area. Hopefully it'll be worth the price!
@bolt05 I don't agree sorry. I think the only downside to the Switch as of now is the price of the accessories and the mystery surrounding the online infrastructure I can't help but feel that Nintendo will screw us over again with steep Virtual Console prices and no transfer system. Plus the app thing and the unknown price for online doesn't help either.
It's alot of little things, I have wrong with the Switch. Actually, it's not even the console at all, I LOVE the Switch. Everything about it seems really well put together. But aside from the console itself, it's most everything else which muddies things up. And i think the biggest culprit is the marketing. Everyone loved the straight forward marking that was the reveal trailer. But at the press event, things seemed to be all over the place. I still think they can fix this, but many (but not ALL) youtubers and news sites are making things MUCH worse. Nintendo needs to make a strong marketing statement, and then stick with it. "Home console gaming- on the go and on the TV". It would be even cooler if they tried to emphasize these huge world that they were making, or adding to the Switch, then say that you can buy a tiny console to play these BIG AAA games. Examples of these are BotW, Super Mario Odyssey, Skyrim, and Xenoblade 2
@Dakt
Oh you're right. My apologies I read just 20 million not 20 times...
@bolt05 they are not irrelevant when it comes to the price of new tech. If you really want to get down to brass tax... I have had to buy two consoles just about every Nintendo generation. I don't have to do that anymore. It's 200 hundred less.
@BinaryFragger yep is basically the price of accessories and big ? about online that makes things look bad.
@Dakt this is a common practice (see xbox one). They do it until r and d is covered.
@Dakt Do you really think the price will drop for Switch? I mean the Wii U didn't.
@Jessica286 I worry about the VC (whether there will be any transfers of games we already own) and paid online too. I'm not sure why anyone would think 32GB is ok for any modern device this day in age though, its ludicrously small. You just know they are understating the battery life too, it won't perform as well 1-2 yrs down the line either, it will just get worse.
If you're happy with the launch games thats cool, but I think they absolutely suck with the exception of zelda.
@GrailUK You could also apply that to Youtubers and Youtube commentors as well
@faint I understand your point RE: new technology, but I still believe that's irrelevant. The success of the switch depends upon its ability to out sell the competition and gain a foothold in the market (an install base).
The tech may be new, but who cares about new tech if it is outperformed by 3-4 yr older tech thats much much cheaper...
That's why Consoles should launch close to each other to avoid getting undercut by natural discounts
@bolt05 Is cool I respect your opinion but I just don't have any problem with that since I don't tend to play longer handheld sections so 2.5 hours of battery life is more than enough for me. About the games, I don't care for quantity I prefer quality and Zelda BoTW is a system seller for me because I just can't stand how the performance of the Wii U version is looking. And as for the space, I buy everything physical and the Wii U 32 gb were more than enough since I don't like that much indie titles. Thats why online and price of accessories is what really bothers me because one is shady practice and the other is just too damn high.
People seem to be forgetting the Switch is cheaper at launch than the PS4 and XB1. It's not some four year old console; it's a brand new system! It's also cheaper than a PS4 Pro and the upcoming Xbox Scorpio. Joycons are two controllers in one. Wiimotes were $40 each, and Joycons are $80 for a pair. sounds reasonable to me. Nintendo is not a charity.
@Dakt I recall that comment; enough of it anyway to know that it's out there.
@Dakt they are only being repeated if we have all the info. Pretty sure we don't.
I'm actually really excited about the Switch. It looks great. I love the portability feature. The beauty is you can add as much or as little as you want. Will it succeed? Who knows. If you want it, go for it. If not, just wait. Just enjoy what gaming is all about - fun.
Where Nintendo grew the stones to charge $49.99 for 1, 2 Switch is beyond me. It's also extending to other titles as well, I though Bomberman was going to be a $20 eshop title but nope, $49.99 retail release. Seems like Nintendo launching with few games gives them and the third parties the ability to charge way too much for their titles.
@StarDust4Ever true is not a charity but they do rely on fans way too much while also screwing them with Virtual Console stuff and other things. We as fans has the right to complain, money ain't grow on trees.
@Dakt thats cool but I don't think I will be able to wait more than one year. Lol!! I mean launch is just Zelda but the entire year looks really cool.
@Jessica286 Yeah, I appreciate the conversation.
I will also only have short handheld sessions in my daily commute, but teenagers and kids will want to play all day long. I also like Zelda BOTW on switch for the same reason, wii u looks the inferior version in every way.
I also prefer, to exclusivity, physical games. But I want virtual console room for the inevitable gamecube and wii games I will buy, plus I think it would be naive to assume there wont be patches to download or DLC for games and 32gb will not go very far.
Im crying because I want a pro controller but its too expensive on day one with switch+zelda+a case+screen protector sticker. Im holding a small glimmer of hope that other bluetooth controllers will work but doubt it.
I am with you, Im getting it day 1. But I have to feel that playing devil's advocate, the average teenager, young adult, family man/woman wont want to pay for this switch thing with a handful of games that costs a lot more than PS4. Come Christmas time I think it could look better, I just think the launch will not set the world on fire and I can see why for all reasons previously stated.
Long-term i'm hopeful but still a little haunted by the wii u and similarities with this launch. I bought the wii u on the promise of zelda with an inventory on my gamepad and nintendo burned me, hard.
Ok....have to agree in that Nintendo is certainly not going agressive and I wish they were........but look at the ps4 and xb1. M$ took a real hit with all the bowback about kinnect being firced and the threat off drm only gaming.......they launched poorly and $ony had a great launch......but both the ps2/ps3 launches were rough and bad and expensive and truly backwards compat and dvd/brd helped save their bacon.
So most launches are rough and prices are high. Ps4 399 and xb1 499 no games no second controllers.
I have spent about $600-$700 on most launches......plus lord what I dont get is people easily drop more money than this oj their mobile gear and think nothing of it.
I expected a fast sellout, constant stock shortages and every game Nintendo publishes to be late or delayed....lol. I also,think the entire year is tuning time for xmas were I expect both Mario and Pokemon to be launched alongside a mk8dc bundle and it will outsell everything around.
@bolt05 man I wanted a pro controller too but $70? DAMN!!
@JLPick Meanwhile, our lord and savior Sony is a perfect Jesus company who can do no wrong. Look, I'm not defending Nintendo on some of their pricing decisions. But let's not act like they only care about money. Same with Microsoft. Even Sony is guilty of Shady things. It's business, they do annoying things, but it's necessary to keep the company afloat. As long as the consumer gains something in return, then it's a necessary evil.
@Dakt Yep! PS4 and XBONE launch prices are long irrelevant. They are competing with more power, more games, and lower prices in the Switch marketplace. This is all that matters.
@Jessica286 Try $99 Australian
I hate to say it but there is no compelling reason to buy a switch. I Actually want Nintendo to go 3rd party now. Can you imagine how much better the games would be on ps4
I think $269.99 would have been a more reasonable price.
Switch lacks value and games. It's a win win can't go wrong.
@marko Haha yeah, I would buy a ps4 if it had nintendo games. The screen shot comparison of Dragon quest heroes the other day looked dire to me.
I think the price of the console itself is fair. I also believe the price for the accessories are fair - this seems like fairly advanced controller technology, and you really don't need more than the pack-in controllers to play singleplayer (Zelda) or multiplayer (over the internett or local 2-player). But I think the games are too expansive. I'm sure Zelda is worth it, but not so sure about the rest - they really should be 10-20 percent cheaper.
I think the pricing is fine. DO I wish it had a pack-in game, sure. It's not a deal breaker.
@faint their price at launch isn't an issue here-they were competing against each other . The switch is competing against them now at their current price. I don't think it's expensive compared to an iPad pro for instance but 1000s of consumers will look at what they are getting for 280 pounds in the uk and look at a PS4 for example with uncharted for nearly 100 pounds cheaper. I want this to succeed but unlesss a price drop happens to Make it competitive then it won't. The negative reaction- me included- since release is not something I ever thought was going to happen but it's Nintendo doing what they normally do. The moment when they started showing off 1 2 switch I shuddered- it's like they think the Wii audience is going to come back. The super Mario run launch was equally negative due to stupid decisions- always online put off millions of potential consumers. They needed to throw this out so hard that we all looked at it and thought wow at that price I need one of those in my life.
Come Holiday season the the Switch needs to come bundled with either Splatoon or Mario Kart and also have 1,2 Switch preinstalled for $300. Or another bundle with just 1,2 Switch plus a Pro controller or another Joy Con set for $300
The Switch is fine in price (way out of my range, especially when games, etc. are thrown in, but it's understandable). Still wishing the price for the N3DS would come down, especially if they're going to produce more N3DS exclusive games (which I suspect they are, though I could be wrong).
At $399.99 in Canada, the Switch is more expensive then PS4 or Xbone. I'm thinking Nintendo is really going to struggle with this system here... Not to mention charging $74.99 for retail games...
I REALLY want to be excited for the Switch but I just can't. I think Zelda look's amazing but that is just one game.
I don't care whatsoever about gaming on the go and the accessories prices are ridiculous.
@elmadin thank you, my mind was wandering at the time and i did want to type something.
@QuickSilver88 Thank you $400 PS4 at launch, $500 XB1 at launch, $300 Switch at launch, $400 PS4 Pro at launch, XB Scorpio launch price TBD but likely more than Switch. And I'm not gonna even mention 7th gen pricing. $600 PS3 versus $250 Wii was insane. I did eventually get a $300 PS3 Slim years later though, right before Move launched.
@bolt05 @darthstuey No Switch is a 9th gen console and will be competing with $400 PS4 Pro and TBA XB Scorpio, which are both more than $300.
Good article. But I think you're giving the launch games a pass. Zelda is a WiiU game. If it was just on Switch, it would be a killer app.
And Nintendo has to show us why we are paying for this tech. They failed to do so with the gamepad. Gimmicky games won't do it.
Nothing wrong with the pricing. Given the feature set of the system, I expected it to cost more. All of the controllers have a fair amount of tech stuffed inside (joycons and procon). I don't use the touchpad on my ps4 controller, but I don't see articles demanding they be cheaper.
People gladly shelled out for a ps4/xbone (before launch even) or for both a ps4 and a vita to do what the switch does seamlessly out of the box. Or what the wiiu could only do 30 feet away. As I stated on another article 1 2 Switch is a terrible pack in because it is multiplayer only. Plus most launch systems don't come with a game. There is nothing wrong with the current pricing: just another case of the Nintendo double standard. It is OK for the twins to charge for online. It is OK for the twins (and now their mid life upgrades, screw you MS and Sony) to be 400-500usd. It is OK for the twins to have 60usd controllers and elite controllers for much more than that. It is OK to buy two systems from Sony to play home console games on the go. It is OK for Sony to release an accessory (PlayStation VR) with a small game lineup that costs several hundred dollars AFTER you buy the ps4. But don't let Nintendo do anything at a reasonable value. All of a sudden gaming is sooo expensive.
If I you are expecting a race to the bottom why isn't Sony charging a lower price for the Pro? If the issue is competing with cheap games why isn't every new fifa a little cheaper than the one last year? It is one thing to wait because you can't afford launch prices or there are no games you want to play. I bought my ps4 and xbone last year because the games weren't there (still aren't for the xbone). However, to expect or demand a double standard just because you are cheap and unwilling to wait means perhaps you need a new hobby. Or maybe Nintendo isn't for you anymore. Move on. If Sony/MS bring you joy play them.
I for one, will be playing Zelda and several other games come March 3rd.
@marko
If Nintendo goes third party it will be the downfall of the video game industry. I was a huge SAGA fan as a kid, and now that they are only a third party developer they can't take any risks anymore when developing games. SAGA quality of work has gone down and there mostly stuck making Sonic games. Nintendo would have the same fate, the industry will lose creativity and we will end up with low quality and yearly releases of Mario games.
@Syrek24 Thank you. Compared to other system launch prices, Switch is cheap.
@Ryu_Niiyama
Your post is the damn truth!
One of the big problems for the Wii-U was the lack of third party support. It's clear that the third parties are still timid about investing in a Nintendo console because first party titles tend to suck up the money while third party titles sell much worse than on completing platforms. This is why Nintendo never gets AAA titles and I see the SAME trend happening on switch.
Because the console is so expensive most gamers will likely focus on Zelda. It's worth the $60. Games like Bomberman R won't sell well at all. When it's time for another major releases, not that there are many, Nintendo will inevitably have a competing first party title launch.
The pricing and release strategy all but assures that third parties will NOT bring AAA titles to Switch, will abandon it early, or will release only shovelware. Nintendo learned NOTHING from Wii-U.
Nice article.
There are a lot of people on bandwagons especially when it comes to negative posts or replies about Nintendo. It doesn't bother me because we are only speaking about a game company producing entertainment. I don't embrace entertainment or pick it up to the point where I would imitate it. In my mind "I know to leave entertainment right where it is". This isn't life or death to me, it's just fantasy. So imo it would be pretty silly to defend a perishable object as if life depended on it. I just play games for fun.
As far as negativity and slandering people for playing on a platform of their choosing, in my experience, it's only on the internet gaming sites ( gamefaqs is one). But never in public. When I go to GameStop for example, we speak about games no matter the platform and it's all peaceful. Nobody is threatening or name calling. All this name calling against the players and the developers and saying things like "Nintendoom Sonypony Xbots" is all internet talk by people who are johnny dangerous behind a keyboard starting Efights in one way or another. Even the people who pass by another's comment and want to be the grammar police and history geeks, they are always going to be there. But I don't even feed into it or reply back no matter what the topic or comment is.
I know we all have different opinions. But if you choose not to feed into the goofy things people say then you will have nothing to worry about. Because people will say what they say anyway..
I will just say, they went full Nintendo, and you never go full Nintendo (in this times).
There is an article at Kotaku right now with some questions asked about the Switch and while most of the no comment answers came from the VC questions, the questions they did answer really left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Before the Wii U I'd never ever admit or even accept that Nintendo where behind the times (in terms of what they offer to the gaming scene) but now, man I'd be hard pressed to justify half of their choices. It seems like they take one step foward and then toss a dice to decide how many backwards they will take.
Wow so much negativity lol, well back to playing games on my 3ds while I wait for the Switch
@AirElephant I don't agree with this. Over the years, several third party games have sold well on Nintendo consoles. Monster Hunter, for instance. The main problem is the work it takes to make games for Nintendo platforms. If you make a game for the PS4 or Xbox One, it's fairly easy to port to the other one. And thus you have covered 75 percent plus of the market. If you basically have to make the game again to cover the last 25 percent, it may not be worth it - that's resources better spent on creating a new game for 75 percent of the market. With the Switch beinh easy to port/make games for, I don't think this will be a problem.
All they had to do is add in a pack in game, add in a permanent free game with the multiplayer sub., and lower the prices a tad, and all this anxiety could be avoided.
But being stubborn is Nintendo's thing. My way or the highway.
Seriously people?
The Switch price is fine, this isn't just another console. It's a portable gaming system that can play games with graphics comparable to the PS4. Any arguments about price immediately become invalid because this system is unique.
@faint again the price is acceptable if you are looking at the switch in a vacuum or you place a high ptemium on portability but when you compare it to other consoles which has more power, games and are much cheaper then you will find it unacceptable.
I want the Switch so bad, but at the same time, the pricing is off-putting to me. Like some users already said, it's 450 smackeroo's in Canada and to me, that's a pretty hefty price to pay. I'll just wait for a bundle before I make the plunge.
The Switch will have the 3rd cheapest console launch of all time, when adjusted for inflation.
I really wanted Nintendo to go for it and take a loss on each Switch, but then Kimishima had to be all practical and announce it ahead of time that they would not take a loss. He's probably right, and I was prepared for the $300 just fine, but most people just catch wind of this briefly and all they see is "maybe $250" one day and "$300 with no game" the next.
I'm all in with preorders myself, but I can't help but imagine this at $250 with a pack-in.
All the accessories could be the same price really that would still be the sweet spot at which many would simply buy it and ask questions later. As it is now, people are asking questions right away and hey, look at those accessory prices!
As a side note, Nintendo pricing mistake or not, the people who kickstarted that $250 rumor without any real knowledge probably cost Nintendo millions of dollars upfront and may have harmed the platform forever. Thanks so much.
Here's the part that encourages me. I recently watched a simple video of someone just playing BotW on a Switch in portable mode. Nice close up, nothing else. The thing is amazing as a portable and up until recently I haven't really cared too much about that mode. I know others have the reverse where they haven't really cared much about TV play.
My point is, I think once people experience all the parts that make up what the Switch is in person there is going to be much more comfort with that price.
I like the price if it was cheap then thats the perception I would have of the system everything I've seen so far it looks to be a premium system not a plastic kids toy like their other systems most recently being the Wii U there is nothing sleek about Wii U's tablet controller its got the bulky look of a kids toy , the negative comments are just what the Internet seems to be , a place where people go to voice and spread all their negativity. The sad part is it would not matter what or how the Switch was being released there would still be the same negative people saying the same negative things the thing is you got to make up your own mind and not pay attention to negative comments . Honestly I think the Nintendo Switch is the sexist console to hit the market definitely the sexist console ever from Nintendo and you got Sony and xbot fanboys jealous that their consoles are no where near the sleekness of NINTENDO'S SWITCH and it has some killer software coming it's way I'm looking very forward to getting my hands on mine launch day.
@diwdiws Yeah, I hear you on that, but it's not a universal thing. To me, the other platforms offer very little. I had a PS1, a PS2 and a PS3. The PS4 has very little for my family with a 7 and 11-year-old and I'm not going to only play by myself after dark. Same with XB1.
The Switch already offers a better library in that context and by the end of the year it destroys the competition.
Also, it has a screen and a battery for portability (as you mentioned) but it's not just that. It also offers some different physical experiences and especially a way to play local multiplayer on the go. Little to no set up and 2, 3, 8 people can be playing a game together... pretty much anywhere with no wires. The competition has nothing in this category.
For some, it lacks a bunch of games you can get on the PS4 and XB1 but for the early adopting type interested in the Switch they likely already bought a PS4 or XB1 years ago. If they didn't bite on PSVR or PS4 Pro, here's a nice way to try something new.
So anyway, I can see it as a poor value to some a great value to others. Not so surprising.
I have no problem with the $299 for the console, but knowing 1-2 switch and bomberman costs $50 each, is really suck!
The cost of innovation outside of graphics.
I want the switch to succeed very much. I love portables, and was very sad at the fate of the ps vita. The pricing is bad and the catalog for the first year looks a little slim. Nevertheless, I have mine preordered and have loved the big n for the last 30 years. I am rooting for them.
With a global sellout on pre-orders, incredibly strong word of mouth, to the point my mother even knew about it when I called her over the weekend, and one of the most powerful brands in gaming launching with the Switch, I believe Nintendo correctly appraised the market. As a father and a gamer, $299.99 is an incredible price for the Switch, comparing it to the 199.99 of the New 3DS, the 399.99 of the PS4, and the 299.99 of the One S. The fact of the matter is, Nintendo has a competitive cost with a strong line up of single, and local multi-player games. Furthermore, I have a separate device, a 4K player for my movies, and a smart TV for streaming apps. The average household already has a dedicated media playe4, what they're looking for is a compelling gaming device, and Nintendo is handing them an intriguing, accessible piece of premium hardware.
@Tiredman
I just bought a 64GB card that I could use on the Switch for $14, so it's funny that your biggest gripe is storage costs yet you buy a Vita and will get a PS4; both of which are the worst systems for storage costs/options.
@Syrek24 You represent all that is wrong with Nintendo fandom.
You are an apologist of the highest order. Unfortunately your attitude likely represents Nintendo's attitude toward their own fans. So, someone who is genuinely upset with how Nintendo incompetently bungled the Wii U and had hope that they would make a good faith effort is and entitled brat?
This is a Nintendo fan site. If this is the reaction to the Switch here, imagine how most regular people and gamers feel about it. Hint: not as optimistic as you.
@SharkAttackU If you're actually upset over a video game console not being successful, I would say yes, you are indeed.
At least the Wii U had a very good lineup with third party games that utilize, not all to the full extent, its features/ Batman Arkham Asylum comes to mind, as well as ZombiU. I don't see that in the Switch so it makes me think two things happened:
1) Nintendo didn't give them much time to tinker around with the system.
2) It is hard to program these special features on their games.
@KirbyTheVampire Truly birds of a feather...
How dare a fan of a game company be upset in the slightest if a console from said company doesn't meet their expectations.
Do you know how business works? Like, at all?
Not caring about your customers is a very efficient way to go out of business.
I expect a price cut on the Switch and some of its accessories before the end of this calendar year.
@SharkAttackU Disappointment is reasonable, but still being legitimately upset about it after it's been clear the Wii U was DOA for years is a bit much. Perhaps I'm taking it a bit too literally, though.
I don't find the price to be particularly expensive, I think it's exactly where it should be. But I do think the accessories are expensive, but keep in mind they're all optional. The pro controller is $70, extra joycons are $50 apiece or $80 for a pair, and additional docks are $90. They are expensive but no one is obligated to buy any of them since the console comes with everything you need to use it. I have gotten the sense Nintendo has a very strong sense of pride - almost arrogance - that they think (or know, rather) their brand is worth a premium price and thus will do whatever they want without regard of fitting in and being modern. And this goes not just for their games but just their overall thought process and business structure. It's a very Apple thing of them to do. Apple also feels their products are worth a premium and people pay it.
Again though, $300 for the system is not terrible and I preordered mine. If $300 is too much for the system and not enough games interest you, then wait. There will be more games down the road to justify the price and I'm sure eventually there will be systems with packed-in games or a price reduction.
@KirbyTheVampire It is reasonable, and I'm glad you see that, but the Switch exists within the context of the Wii Us failure. We can't pretend that it didn't happen.
Taken within the context that new, meaningful Wii U development ceased a year ago at a minimum, why wasn't more shown at the presentation? Zelda had to be there, obviously. Arms, Splatoon 2 and Xeno 2 look good and enticing, but Mario Kart is a port. Odyssey is 8 months away from launch. There's, what? 25 games in the first 9 months in total? Many are niche titles. It's a bit of a letdown. There were no real surprises. No dormant franchises resurrected. Online is still shrouded in mystery just 45 days away. Tech crammed in for apparently just to bloat the price....
http://kotaku.com/36-years-of-console-prices-adjusted-for-inflation-1485353267
I wrote a much more disparaging post than this, but I mean....just sayin' bubs
I think it's fair to get upset about marketing, but upset about pricing? Can't afford new tech, you don't get it. I can't wait to get a used Switch in a couple years, with a few games bundled. jk I can wait eh relf
As an early adopter I have always paid more for my tech and then kick myself a few months later when prices inevitably drop and deals get better. I preordered my switch from Game UK back in November and along with the pro controller, Zelda, bomberman, a case and a screen protector I'm looking at spending just over £500. This is obviously quite steep but you know what I'm really excited to be one of the first to get my hands on one and having that extra buzz makes it totally worth it. I think throughout the year this machine will build momentum and by Christmas (I refuse to use the vague holiday season term) it will be a must have system and be a much more competitive price. I'm paying the premium for getting it first and I'm okay with that.
Price is a big factor for people. A PS4 with 2 games can be had for 40% less than the Switch launches for without a game. People will say it's a new console, you can't expect it to be cheap, but people are looking at how you can get a more powerful console with a bigger library for a lot less money. £80 is 2 brand new games you could be getting with that PS4 instead.
I also don't see how anyone can defend that launch line up. Zelda looks amazing but will be on Wii U, and that's the only thing on day 1 that's not shovelware. If you're happy paying £330 to play the game instead of just spending £40 to get it on the console you already own then good for you, it's your money, but don't expect many to agree it's worth it.
These two points alone are HUGE downers for many people. People will hold off, wait for a price drop, wait for a bigger library, and suddenly the Switch is in the same situation as Wii U.
@SharkAttackU The presentation could have been better for sure, and some of the accessories are overpriced. I think that the price for the system itself is fine, seeing as it's the most powerful handheld ever seen, plus it doubles as a console and technically comes with two controllers. If you compare the price to the New 3DS/New 3DS XL, it's really not that bad for what you're getting. Everything about this will be better than the 3DS from a handheld perspective, save for it being slightly less portable and convenient to carry around. (Plus the lack of a clamshell design, which is always nice on a handheld)
We can't really judge the software lineup yet, cause more titles are being announced in the weeks up until launch and at E3. Personally, I'm really excited about it, because I didn't own a Wii U, so all the ports are brand new games for me, and will be for a lot of people, seeing as only 13 million bought the Wii U. Also, there's still time for dormant franchises to come back. Reggie said something about Metroid that sounded pretty positive in regards to it being on the Switch, but who knows. Guess we'll have to see how the first year's software lineup looks after E3.
@Peach64
I understand what you're saying, and I understand what other people are saying.
But I think if other consoles were so appealing to a person they probably already own them. I know I do, because I'm a gamer and those consoles have been on market for years. Besides, it may get you an extra game but it doesn't get you a console and handheld in one. Now that may not appeal to everyone, and I do understand that, but there's 75 million people who bought a handheld this generation so I'm willing to bet there's quite a few people it will appeal to. There are billions of people in the world and not everyone wants the same thing.
As for the launch lineup, it's only not impressive to Wii U owners. To anyone else Zelda is a system seller. But I think it's been well-established that yes the launch lineup is weak. I don't think anyone's defending it, I think people are just explaining why that's not enough to stop them from buying. A lot of people wait several years for a good library to build up, but what people are saying is that yes they acknowledge the launch line up is lacking, but nonetheless there are enough games coming in the very near future (this year in fact) to make a person say: why should I wait if I know I'm going to want one before the year is over.
It's going to be a long generation and just the fact we're seeing a main entry Fire Emblem and main series Shin Megami Tensei is enough to indicate to me that this console is going to offer far more than Wii U ever did. I take encouragement from some of Reggie's comments as well. I'm not getting my hopes up quite yet but I'm leaning towards thinking we might see a Metroid announced by the end of this year, and a Monster Hunter (a new one, built for consoles) is looking almost certain.
Here in Norway some retailers have gone completely mad with the price of the Switch console!
They are asking a 3899 NOK price. That comes down to over 400 dollars!! Nuts!
Since there is no region lock any longer, I can import it from the US, including 25% import fee + toll fee for around 3300 NOK!!
No idea what is going on with Nintendo and pricing here in Europe /facepalm
I think the reason so many people are complaining is because the Switch was supposedly going to show a Nintendo that had learned its lessons with the Wii U and wasn't going to make the same mistakes.
Instead it's another sparse launch line up with poor third party support and an overpriced console with weaker hardware compared to the other consoles. It's very easy to see the Switch going the same way as the Wii U at this point.
I should just say, I don't necessary agree entirely with the above viewpoint and I've had my preorder in since they went live but I do think this is what the majority are complaining about. In particular given the dearth of releases for the Wii U last year it's baffling as to why there were so few games ready for the Switch. The whole point of unifying the console and mobile dev teams was so more games could be made for just one platform and so far it seems to have made little difference!
@BulkSlash
That I can understand, but it is region free and I just read today (from the mouth of Reggie) that games are now tied to accounts, so I think there is good reason to believe that Nintendo is actually listening and changing for the better.
I think the "weaker hardware" argument isn't valid. It's a portable console so it has all the reason in the world to be weaker. If they could make the power of the PS4 as a portable and sell it for the same exact price as PS4 then I would have to start questioning why the PS4 isn't cheaper than it is. The opposite side of that coin is that it's the most powerful hardware on the market for a portable gaming system. So there's two ways of looking at it.
But the lunch line up is definitely sparse, and I could be totally wrong on this- time will tell- but my guess is that rather than dumping a pile of games all at once, theyre making sure we don't have any droughts. Wii U went 9 months before getting the next major 1st party release (Pikmin 3), yet Switch will have 8 1st party titles released in that same time frame. 3D Mario, Zelda, Xenoblade, Splatoon, Mario Kart... all these games took years to arrive on Wii U.
I see third-party support I just don't see the big AAA. And I kinda knew that was gonna be the case. There's just not enough people that buy those games. In the end though I think Nintendo did their part in making a system they can port to, so now it's on third-party developers to bring their games. We need to show them that we want them and are willing to pay for them. Before I had no reason to buy a port on Wii U, but with Switch's portability I'll gladly buy any that come to the system. But at the end of the day the system needs games, not any one particular type of game. As long as there are no droughts there is no issue.
@Jeronan
So, what one member here on NintendoLife does is they have me buy for them and I ship to their forwarder service in Miami, FL, who then forwards the package to Costa Rica. They usually stockpile a whole bunch of purchases and then have me send it all at once to mitigate shipping cost. And the exonerate the package from import fees. Maybe something to consider (not from me, just saying... have someone buy from BestBuy at 20% off GCU discount, or Prime discount, then send a bunch at once and exonerate)
It shouldn't have to be this way. It's Nintendo Europe who is screwing up with pricing!
The XBoxOne and PS4 were priced correctly according to valuta.
Hell, even the other Nintendo consoles were priced correctly right form the start!
So how Nintendo is screwing up with pricing of the Switch over here beats me?!
I now saw that some shops have finally adjusted the price to 3599 NOK! That is still too high a conversion rate.
I could buy the WiiU Premium edition bundle at launch here for 3299 NOK. /shrug
That's what I don't like about subjective criticism and when anyone on the internet can make a video about something they have no idea about. Instead of pointing out ALL the cons and pros, most of those YouTubers (and articles) focus solely on the cons. I don't know if it's some conspiracy of sort (probably from anti-Nintendo group, if such one exist) or people are just prejudical (which is not surprisig at all). All the fairly unfair hate Nintendo is getting seems to attract people more than serious articles and videos with factual information. That's probably the reason so many people love to poke fun at Nintendo (well... make fun of, precisely) and without any factual information call the Switch a "gaming phablet" which is so far from truth as much as it can be.
But it is also true, that most people I talked to about Switch, thought it was a cool idea and interestingly looking "hybrid", but that was as far as they interest got (and most of them still think it's a handheld). They wouldn't buy it and they would rather buy new games for PS4/XBOX or the consoles. And what's the worst is the fact I can't provide them with much information, because honestly there's not that many and most of the upcoming games are titles that have strong fanbase and arent widely as popular as in Japan or within Nintendo's fans (the only game most people I spoke to ever heard about was Mario and Pokemon Go which ironically wasn't even made by Nintendo, but Niantic).
I think the lack of information, weak launch titles, overpriced games (tax/vat is not Nintendo's fault though) and no bundle yet are the main issue and thus the reason why there is so many negative videos and articles around (that's why I love NL, they always make articles that tell us not only the good points, but also the bad ones thus being rather objective than subjective). Not to mention all the accessories that are pretty costly too. Switch was supposed to be something we never seen before, a whole new gaming experience. So far it didn't reach that goal yet and was more disappointing than exciting.
But we still got a lot of time ahead before the Switch's official launch and whole year for the Switch (and all upcoming games) to settle down. This year will definitely tell the future of the Switch, be it success or another sad failure.
@KirbyTheVampire
I agree with almost everything you say here. And, to clarify, I really like the Switch. I will probably wait to buy for a number of personal and gaming reasons. I will be getting BotW for my Wii U. I knew that well before the presentation.
My larger point was to the comment above and to the shameful reactions toward honest, well founded criticism of the Switch and Nintendo in general.
I am living in Mexico, here I've seen prices on preorders go up to 500 USD for the console alone, 70 USD for the cheapest and most pointless switch games nobody will buy (1,2,Switch), and accessories around the same price. If limited editions of Zelda will even arrive here, I don't want to imagine the price... Oh I almost forgot, 4 or 5 new amiibo to pay for on that same day.
Based on what we've seen, we'd need at the very least the charging joycon grip and maybe the pro controller... probably waiting for extra joycons and wheels in game bundles is a much better idea than buying them at launch day.
Needless to say, if those prices are confirmed, this may very well be the little extra push I needed to tip me over the fence of retiring as a Nintendo gamer... at least from the coming games, I could still play and collect classic Nintendo games.
Pricing matters. As a nintendo fan I will, sooner or later, invest into the switch. I dont want to miss out on zelda and fire emblem switch and many other first party titles. Like the author said, when things are expensive one needs to be picky. Certain games which I might have bought at launch I may buy later when the price has dropped significantly or not all. I can live with that since I am primarily interested in first party nintendo titles but third parties might face some difficulties
Their brand is only worth something to the faithful fans, which these days are in smaller number than ever and are the ones who ensure that a console or game will hit the top 10 of whichever country's charts in the first week or two, but then disappear shortly after when the rest of the world fails to follow suit. This isn't the ps4, where positive word of mouth hid the fact that there were no worthwhile exclusive games for the first 18 months. This feels in many ways like 2012 all over again, and I know a few people are buying the Switch's best launch title on a 5-year-old console as it's apparently the same game for £20 less.
The question asked, or rather, implied, should be "do you want a cool console that's also a handheld?".
But with these prices, it comes across as "are you a true Nintendo fan?".
And when a console is expensive even for Nintendo fans, well... yikes.
This webpage just says it all:
http://www.ign.com/wikis/wii-u/Wii_U_Launch_Games_(US)
R.I.P. Nintendo Switch. /sigh
Seriously, they sure will sell a lot of consoles at launch by impulse buyers and Zelda fans, but after the first month and when reality kicks in that there are no other games available, the sales for Switch will drop faster than the WiiU.
Say bye bye to 3rd party support within the first 6 months, With some AAA 3rd party canceling development of their games for the Switch, when they see the console is not selling.
Like People say, it's the WiiU all over again, but 10 times worse!
Like People say, the WiiU at least had a proper launch lineup of games!!
And then the outrageous screw up in pricing here in Europe to make matters even worse. /shrug
I have no idea what is going on at Nintendo. It seems once again they are focusing on Japan only, with all kinds of incentives (like People able to choose joy-con color combinations on the order website, etc). They also seem to get more games at launch, not available elsewhere.
Just the fact that they purposefully delay Super Mario Odyssey until december, just to have something in that month to boost holiday sales, while it's finished and should have been a launch title...shows the desperation at Nintendo at the moment.
@StarDust4Ever no its only competing with what us available right now. Right now a ps4 is cheaper and a pro is comparable because they have a bundle representing better value.
Im buying a switch... BUT i wanted the switch to succeed mainstream. I still want it to succeed.
But on January 12th i saw a very bad launch video. Anyone who cant see the overwhelming negativity is stuck on planet nintendo. Down here on earth a game drought in the first 6 months killed the last nintendo console.
Seeing as this is a semi-portable home console it has some value. That does not make want to spend $400 before tax and before games. This is no replacement for my 3DS and I'm not certain it is enough of a step up from the Wii U to justify the price. Especially with online not fully priced or detailed and I think that is part of the problem here. We don't know the online cost which is a factor that has to added to the console price for months/years or exactly what we get for this cost as it is only semi-detailed at best.
I might get one someday but we'll see I suppose.
Until I see VR and their waggle controllers for a cheaper pricepoint, I feel the Switch is priced correctly. Cheapos want things for cheap, but new hardware doesnt fall under that category.
PSVR - $400
Two brand new PSMove controllers - $100
PS4 required for PSVR - $250+
Total: $750
Google Daydream headset with single controller - $80
Phone needed to play Daydream - $600+ or a 2-year contract.
Total: $680
Switch - $300
Extra joycon set that is not required - $80
A brand new Zelda game - $60
Total: $440
@BertoFlyingFox That is the most ridiculous excuse of a comparison I have yet seen!
How in earth can you compare VR peripherals with a console?
VR Technology is very expensive and at it's infancy still.
If you want to compare Apples with Apples, then compare with XBoxOne and PS4!
The fact that I can right now buy a PS4 Pro + game bundle for the same price as the Nintendo Switch without a game. That says enough about how out of touch Nintendo still is and hasn't learned a single lesson of the WiiU!
Still as arrogant as ever! Living in their Kingdom of denial.
The WiiU had a huge game lineup at launch, with some serious major titles!
The WiiU Premium edition + game bundle I could buy here in Europe at launch for less than I can now pre-order the Nintendo Switch for without a game!
If you don't see anything wrong with that picture, you are clearly living in denial, just like Nintendo is. /sigh
While the initial prices are fair in a sense, they can get pretty high especially in countries with high sales taxes (24% VAT in my country), so I understand the comparison to already established cheaper alternatives.
I'm excites to see how people will react after it's been released and review start coming in. The Holiday sales are when we truly start seeing the actual demand with the general population.
@BertoFlyingFox
A $600 phone that can make calls and texts, surf the net, connect to Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, youtube as well basically be a complete computing experience in the palm of your hand.
All things Nintendo just confirmed the Switch can't do. Yikes.
People will cry about anything, that's the real narrative here. The dang thing sold out of pre-orders in 3 days, cry moar
I want a shiny new Nintendo portable but I also love 3D and want a d-pad so... I have to get a New 3DS XL instead I guess
My biggest beef is that Nintendo have basically starved both the 3DS and the Wii U of high profile titles over the past year and a half. Despite the 3DS's sales, it is library doesn't have much depth and non-existent western support...The Switch launch is piss poor. The only thing new Nintendo have is 1 2 Switch? No release date for the ARMS game that actually makes good use of the Joy-Cons. The only title outside of the March 3 date is Mario Kart 8 DX for full price? In fact, a lot of third parties don't even have release dates. Apart from the prices of the controllers, why am I'm buying the Switch? When are the games coming out that the Switch can play? For the Switch to consist of Wii U ports and games that use ton of assets from Wii U games (Splatoon 2 is some str8 up BS) the whole launch year looks lazy as hell from Nintendo.
There are some pricing issues especially on some of the launch games which don't look like full retail games. More than that is the library clearly isn't there for it to be launching yet with most of it's games being ports of older games, some even hide this by putting a 2 on it. At this point Nintendo are a bit lucky that Zelda took around 18 months longer to finish than originally planned (or was that partly deliberate?) otherwise what games would it have until Mario comes out? A 3 year old port of Mario Kart, a port of Splatoon dressed as a sequel, a 1 year old port of the then 6 year old Skyrim and many ports of games that already exist on other consoles.
Few consoles have many games or great games at launch but Nintendo is going into this having failed with the Wii U, with games been few and far between and expensive controller options. At this moment the Switch could go either way and pre order's seem to be strong, though a quick look on eBay suggest not all are for personal use. I hope it succeeds as my earliest gaming memories are all Nintendo
I can only speak for the UK, but pricing the Switch higher than PS4/XB1 here is, to put frankly, a gargantuan mistake. It will flop here at this price. I could understand if it was as or more powerful, but it isn't and those consoles have been out years already. Yes I know it's portable and has Joycons with lots of tech. But the simple fact is that here, in the U.K., that means nothing. I would argue that is the case for most other gamers in most other countries too, regardless of what vocal people in comments sections are saying. Let's get real. The Wii did well because it was £180. £100 cheaper than the Switch.
If the high price here was isolated and as a result of Brexit then fair enough, but it seems to be the case with EUR/USD/AUS prices too, so that's not it.
Let's not even get into how there is no way the Switch will be able to cater for the DS/Game Boy market, that they have held for almost 3 decades, at this price. Their biggest and most profitable market. A new dedicated handheld from Nintendo on the way? That would go against their message on the Switch. There is no way parents will be spending this money on a portable for their young children.
Nintendo have banked on portability and being able to realistically feel milking cow games over raw power and games that people truly want (outside the Nintendo first party bubble, and they even struggle in their own bubble). They will most definitely not lead the sales race with this strategy, so now the question is can they carve out a significant enough niche as a second console for most gamers? At this price point I can't see that happening.
I got the Wii U day one. I'm not getting this day one. I have literally spent hundreds of pounds a year on 3DS/Wii U over the last few years. At the moment I won't be doing that with Switch. I still don't have the desire to get a PS4 (yet), so I think I'll be pumping my money into a NES/SNES with Everdrive carts for my Sony PVM, to enjoy Nintendo games when they were in their heyday and top of the roost. Because most of these games will never come out on VC.
Switch will be Nintendo's last home console, and they will be going software only. I feel it in my bones. That will be a sad, but necessary day.
Sorry for the long post!
1-2 switch is 34.99 on Amazon uk
Furthermore, we don't know how Nintendo is even going to handle the Virtual Console. We know so little and Nintendo is charging out the wahooooo.
@jimi
You're really, really reaching dude. Nobody can take your complaints seriously when you're going out of your way to make a list as big possible (not an unbiased, balanced view of pros and cons, but a slanted view with one intention- spin things as bad as possible).
1 Fair point
2 smartphone does not mean mobile data. All smartphones connect to wireless same as any console would
3 paid online is industry norm
4 don't even know what a digipad is, doubt it's that important
5 fair point if that's true, but do people actually browse the web with a console anyways?
6 no Miiverse? It has social integration just like all other consoles
7 controller is $70, only $5-10 more than Xbox One
8 weak hardware? What did you expect, a full mobile PS4 for same price? It's the most powerful handheld device to date
9 terrible design? Touchscreen only usable out of dock? No **** what did you expect to use the touchscreen while docked????
10 No... extra docks are $90, which is high yes
11 And a GC adapter will solve that, besides only a small number of games needed it, so why don't we wait and actually see if we get GC VC before complaining about not getting it, hmmm?
12 PS4 isn't BC but I guess it's only bad when it's Nintendo eh? and BC would mean keeping same old dated architecture,
13 Controller compatibility, not one other console is compatible with past controllers, yet another double standard
14 Literally no games- maybe you don't know what literal means because I'm pretty sure I've got about 20 of them pre-ordered right now
15 since when is better rumble a gimmick? would you prefer a console that went back to the Stone Age and had absolutely no technology improvements whatsoever?
16 Gimmick game, agreed. But why are you complaining about it when you as a consumer can just choose to not buy it! Hey there's a novel concept
17 double listing, see point 14
18 I see plenty 3rd party, just not AAA (though there is some). But the only thing that matters is that there are good games and no droughts. A console should be judged on what it offers, not panned for what it doesn't offer
19 32gb. Fair point. At least it doesn't require proprietary memory
20 this is a worthless, speculative insult
21 no target audience? How about the 75 million people who bought a handheld this generation, for starters
22 innacurate touchscreen? So I take it you've bought one and used it for a month and can make these assertions?
23 agreed the launch lineup is weak
24 1 port and 1 gimmick til end of year? Zelda, 1-2 Switch, Mario Kart, Splatoon, Xenoblade, new IP (Arms), Fire Emblem Warriors, Mario Odyssey, and that's just the first party.
25 system is region free, wth?
26 $300 is a normal launch price, and far better than a weak SD 3DS for only $100 less, and you get a console and handheld in one ($500 if you bought Wii U + 3DS)
27 not as portable as 3DS- at least it's portable at all! It's a full console not a pocket calculator
28 Or, trade in your Wii U copy of MK8- there's your discount, you don't see Last of Us Remastered discounted to PS3 owners, no, but that doesn't seem to matter to your one-sided viewpoint
29 Splatoon 2 downgraded experience? Now you're just being ignorant
30 it's 2.5 - 6 hrs vs launch 3DS with 3 - 5 and is powering full console games
31 3 hrs to charge is not unreasonable, seriously wth
32 no streetpass, you're really reaching if you have to list something like this to try to make it seem like a bad console
33 controllers can't be used while charging, ok fair point.
Now I could just as easily make a list that long of all the positives there are to the system and all the benefits there are to the system, all the improvements there are... It all boils down to what agenda you're pushing. Not only are you focusing only on the negatives and ignoring all the positives but you're over exaggerating and over blowing those negatives and reaching to find as many as you can, because you want to make it look bad.
@GravyThief
What I feel in my bones is that the system will at the very least exceed 3DS, and that this will be the start of a long future in hybrid consoles. Part of your problem is chalking up every single game or as wanting nothing but power, wanting nothing but AAA. There are 8 billion people in this world and not everyone wants the same thing. And there's roughly 75,000,000 people who bought a Nintendo platform this generation, so that's a pretty big bubble. I don't know about the UK but from what I've gathered it's an insignificant market for Nintendo anyways. Here in the US, The Switch is priced right on par with the other consoles. Granted it doesn't come with a bundled game but it does come with hybrid functionality which in my opinion is worth far more than a bundled game is worth.
@rjejr
I think I've made my thoughts on the matter clear. I love it. I wish there were more launch games and I think a bundled game would have gone a long ways, but overall it's a slick system for just $300. And oh, Reggie says games are now tied to accounts... rejoice!
shut up and Zelda!
@JaxonH you are correct about the UK for Nintendo. It's an insignificant market for them. I think it will fail here massively, but if it does well in the rest of EUR and the US it will matter little in the grand scheme of things.
And I really hope that is the case. I love Nintendo, both games and consoles, but their strategy with Switch leaves me perplexed. Both them and you think the hybrid strategy will pay off on its own, and I hope it does, I just do not see it. The concept and hardware look great, I love it, it's the price I cannot fathom.
We will know more about its success this time next year, when it's had a year and Xmas under its belt. I hope I'm eating my words by then.
Great article @ThomasBW84. A really good fair summary of the situation.
The price isn't going to kill it but it's a touch high. The software lineup is currently a bit weak. Some games and accessories are priced too high. There's a lack of clarity on Virtual Console, what the (now paid) online service will offer, how Digital Accounts will work etc.
Rather than a Nintendo aware of its mistakes and its place in the market coming out fighting it's a bit too much like the same old Nintendo. There's time to put it right but this article is spot on.
No-one in their right mind would buy a console at launch when the only worthwhile game is also available on the previous console.
If you're intent on wasting money give the difference to charity.
I'm bored of this "complain about every aspect of the Nintendo Switch" game, I think instead I'll just buy the system and enjoy all the games. People seem to think they can dictate to companies how much they charge for their product but that's is not how it works. They showcase their wares and then its up to the consumer whether they buy or not. Don't get me wrong if everyone boycotts the switch the prices probably will drop but then again it might just force Nintendo out of the console market and then we will be left with less choice, less innovation and we will be forced to buy inferior games with no quality control. Your call guys. How about we support the one company who is genuinely trying to go down a different path?
@Franklin
It's an investment, not a 10 day rental. You buy it at launch investing for the five years coming. And if you know you're going to buy it anyways because you like the system, like the controllers, like the portability, and there's enough games coming to make it worthwhile... then what sense is there in waiting.
@electrolite77
See, now that's a fair assessment. I think people could learn from you on how to voice certain concerns without going on a crusade against the console.
There's been a flood of discussion about the shortcomings, but I'm ready to start talking about what there is to be excited. About all the positives.
@GravyThief
Ya Idk about U.K., can't speak on that, but here it seems reasonably priced. Certainly not low, but not unreasonable either. It's about what you would expect from a console of this magnitude capable of portable play. Of course after a year or so passes by, and that first price drop hits and the Switch is $249.99 that's when the system is really gonna hit its stride I think.
But just looking at it from a personal perspective, this is the console I have always wanted. The prospect of busting out Mario Kart at work and having 2 controllers built in the system is divine. Next time my job sends me out of town for training I can bring this baby with me to the hotel instead of 3DS and Vita. I've always had a thing for handhelds... just the thought of a full console Zelda, Skyrim, Xenoblade, Mario, Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, etc on a handheld makes me ecstatic.
I don't get people saying, "oh but other consoles had very few launch games!" Really, that's your defense? I don't care about other consoles, I care about this one.
The Wii U was a disaster. Its launch wasn't great and Nintendo have starved us of proper and numerous games for the past 2 years. What on Earth have they been doing in that time? Nintendo need to launch the Switch all guns blazing. They have 1 really great game and that is a Wii U game that we've been deprived of for some considerable time so that it could launch with the Switch.
The next really big game isn't until Christmas and let's face it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Super Mario Odyssey is a 2018 game. 3rd party support isn't great. There's a lot of Japanese developers but most of them aren't giving us their AAA games. Where are the Western developers? We haven't seen a FPS. Maybe they'll get announced later and Nintendo don't want to blow their load all in one go.
Nintendo not choosing to compete price-wise may well be to their disadvantage in the modern market but not remotely the sin vocal fans are incriminating them. While this article's point that "the times they are a-changing" is sound, it won't hurt to look back nonetheless: http://kotaku.com/36-years-of-console-prices-adjusted-for-inflation-1485353267
While people aren't at fault for some of the factors that lowered their wallet flexibility (years like 2006 obviously happened before other memorable years like 2008), we can only choose to go by that price or not; we aren't in a position to call a company out on not selling at a loss or not cutting costs (Nintendo once cut them enough that we got Virtual Boy's famously rad... or rather, infamously RED palette). There is zero guarantee that any single one of us would pick a different strategy if actually standing up there in the shoes of Kimishima & Co - couch consulting is always the home of no-brainers. AFAIK Reggie also said that Switch's price was established with future room for price cuts in mind - which is bound to happen years down the road just like PS4 had to do it despite its 50-something million sales and despite full compatibility with anything its beefed-up pro incarnation can offer.
The age of the console and everyone and their dog seemingly having one by now is where the $250 bundles stem from - rather than just the raw power inflation which doesn't seem to have helped XBone nearly as much and just the library which even the less successful PS3 had bursting at the seams after a similar while (and mind you, PS4 continued the trend of embracing all kinds of games regardless of graphics, so a whole lot of its library, much to the complaints of graphic worshippers, is visually simpler indie titles not requiring half the power). In this light, discussing Switch pricing in terms of raw power is dishonest - Switch doesn't need PS4 hardware (hybrid form factor means that putting all that stuff into it could be actually detrimental - the derisively so-called "tablet" already has a cooler fan inside as it is), it needs a comfortable power margin and development conditions to afford low porting cost multiplatforms with largely unabridged content (content, not aesthetical textures and polygons) as well as original titles not requiring the developers to jump through many hoops. That's what PS4 mainly addressed after PS3 and that's part of we know Switch addressed after Wii U. Switch also offers different play modes in one (including the practically unheard-of local two gamepad multiplayer on the go and the obvious independence on Gaikai and 4G in its portability) and seems to have a lot less to require big RAM for, including the lack of a BD drive to manage. What drives its price is the custom technology to keep up enough and the complex tech behind the gameplay potential.
And that potential addresses things it makes sense to charge for in 2017 because Switch ironically allows many gamers a chance to... play expansive home console games. More often than once a week/month/quarter, that is. On a dedicated gaming platform instead of much less specified and thus more whimsical OSes like Android or Windows. Without the ordeal of action control tied to ghostly "buttons" on the touch screen and without the Bluetooth periphery that will cost a sweet penny in itself and gladly join the feast on the device's already challenged battery (phones' 6+ hours is true for calls, facebooks and pics, folks). With fewer-to-none compromises taken to cram home console/PC games on mobile hardware. And with more perks and gimmicks in gaming than any home or portable device can offer on its own. Not interested in any of that? Fair enough. But we might as well quit baseless talks about Nintendo making "something nobody but hardcore Mario fanboys would need at that price".
I think if there were more great launch games it would give the vocal haters more fuel. '' OMG, if I get the switch on launch day with Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Skyrim, Monster Hunter, Bomberman. a charging dock I don't really need, an extra pair of joycons I don't really need straight away, a pro controller that I've got to have but don't need, a charging grip, not essential, a case, extra power adapter, 2TB micro sd card when it comes out etc etc it would be mega expensive '' Nintendo is doomed !!! Should go the way of Sega and just make games because I'm a fanboy / girl and so want to play your games but won't buy any rival hardware no matter how good it is.
Great editorial @ThomasBW84 a fair reflection on the pro's and con's because there are pro's and con's, so much so that after the presentation I went from 1000% getting this to '' I think I may cancel my pre order on Monday ''
I haven't cancelled it, i'm really looking forward to it. Yes I was shocked at the price and lack of pack in game but on reflection I think it's fair, but could have done with 1-2 Switch packed in. To be fair launch prices for PS4 and XBone were way higher and also didn't have a great launch line up and were bulked out with remasters from last gen and had expensive games and accessories. I do think though that the games are overpriced for Switch, even accounting for a small premium for it being cartridge ( not cheap disc ) A title like Zelda can just about get away with it and feel more worth the premium price but when less premium / developed games are the same price or slightly lower than a game that costs a fortune to develop like BOTW i cannot justify or afford to pick them up at launch no matter how much I want Bomberman, I can't afford it day one and I won't pay it which leads to the age old '' They only buy Nintendo games'' argument and 3rd parties abandon ship. But i'm realistic, I don't expect to be able to pick up a launch day console that can do what the Switch does and still be able to afford all the games and accessories that go with it. Ok I need a game to go with it but I can choose and the console has everything else I need to provide a two player experience and charge my joycons day one.
Rumour mongers who build up price and spec expectations to unrealistic levels for whatever ulterior motives. Keyboard warriors and fanboys who feel the need to post their objections and opinions over and over again on every post on every site imaginable and cannot comprehend any opinions or choices outside of their own. Nintendo, who can please and frustrate in equal measure. I think they are starting to listen and change things but at their own pace. Hope they can up their pace a little but also not change too much, I like Nintendo being a little different than the same old same old.
Tough times for Nintendo, games get bigger, development costs and development time increase, even AAA games are discounted weeks after release, day one dlc, season passes etc to claw back costs. More reason to respect them valuing their ip's so much although I think they could show this more by using them a little better than they have lately (federation farce etc ) and be a little more flexible with pricing for older games but it's worrying in an increasingly entitled throwaway culture that Nintendo have no control over.
Anyway I've waffled too much, i'm getting it day one and can't wait and will put up with the pro's and con's of my decision.
Yes, there's no doubt about it, this baby is expensive. However, if you look at all console launches they are historically just as expensive as the Switch's own (especially when you look at the costs of extra controllers, launch titles, other). The selling point here is the home and portable use, and while some may argue that this has been done to some degree already, it hasn't been done with the weight of Nintendo's first party franchises and special collaborations, Nvidia's expertise and backing in this space, the possibility of decent-to-good third party support through ease of programming, and nor have they ever been packed into such a sexy form factor with such bleeding edge tech inside (no, not necessarily the chipset).
I get that people are upset about it in one way or another; the initial outlay is staggering if you want the 'full' set-up, some of the titles have been priced way beyond what gamers perceive as 'good value for money', the impending on-line services come with an extra charge and the UK is in a financial pickle due to..... What some would deem 'politics'.
Looking ahead, there are bound to be Black Friday Bunduru, their own deals including a Zelda or Mario game at Xmas, and the third party stuff will always come down in price quicker than the first (poor, poor Bomberman).
So yes, a bit of foresight could have been exercised when it comes to tempering reactions, but I do also believe that the rampant rumour machine has done a fair bit of damage when expectations were set. People were expecting this to be at least $50/£30 cheaper than it is, and the price of the accessories may have well as been the proverbial flaming turd on the doorstep.
@JaxonH
Because it'll be much cheaper when the worthwhile games have arrived (Christmas).
I don't know what to make of Switch. It doesn't excite me. I'm not into playing games on a tablet. Nintendo are going after a new generation again.
It's time for me and Nintendo to part company. I love Nintendo games but the games I love are not being made anymore. Nintendo stopped making the games I love when Hiroshi Yamauchi retired. That Nintendo is long dead. The Nintendo I love was the greatest video games company ever.
That said, Switch can still be a success. Games can save it and nothing else. Nintendo games. Switch has freed Nintendo to make more games, so who knows.
Launch line up is fine zelda is all you need. I am disappointed there's no wiiu special edition of botw because that's the reason I bought wiiu. I'm getting wiiu zelda and switch in November December ready for Mario and probably get zelda switch then also
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Fils-Aime said that spacing out first party releases is their exact intention in avoiding the downsides of Wii U's release calendar. They're consciously not banking on launch window sales which really haven't helped them with either of the 8th gen entries, preferring to try and ensure a steadier stream of big releases instead. Game starvation sucks but no game company is any more obliged to fix it for the gamer at the cost of a rush hour launch during a spring month than the gamer is obliged to unzip the wallet for them at the first call. And launching with a killer app from the IP some people name their kids after is not quite an abysmal feat anyway. Its version being cheaper on a previous console simultaneously shouldn't be a bigger deal breaker for the general launch window than it was for the flock of PS3 remasters in PS4's first year.
I came in expecting $350 for the device, with a bit more graphical power than we saw. For me, the system pricing was fair. I even understand the controller pricing, given that the pro controller has motion and the joy cons are something of a swiss army knife of gaming tech. But the dock seems overpriced, and I can easily see competition creeping in from third parties on that front. Some of the games also. Bomberman for $50? Well....My 3DS version was $5-$10, I think? It needs to be more than repackaged graphics and online multiplayer for that price IMO.
On the other hand, $60 feels fair for Arms/BotW/other AAA titles.
@Mart1ndo
Ya, if the games they're releasing like Zelda, Splatoon, that open Mario, Fire Emblem, etc aren't the types of games you like, what more is there to say. I think their games have only gotten better, and if they show a Metroid this e3 I'm gonna do a backflip. Pikmin and Monster Hunter are pretty much a given.
But yeah if you look at all those games and you think no, these games do not interest me, then yeah there's really no reason to play on Nintendo consoles.
@Franklin
It may be cheaper by Christmas, either via price drop or bundled game (no guarantee though) but even if it is it'll only be by $50. The games won't really drop in price much, not first party anyways. To me, I'd rather get it and play it a year in advance than
save $50have a chance at saving $50@GiooiG
Are you in the US?
Gamer's Club Unlocked membership at BestBuy is $30 for 2 years. You get 20% off all new games and amiibo. And not just for 2 weeks after release like Amazon Prime (and for 1/4 the cost and membership is twice as long for that price).
Bomberman R becomes $39.99
Zelda BotW Special Edition becomes $79.99
Redout, Binding of Isaac and Puyo Puyo become $31.99
And right now on BestBuy.com there's a $25 Off $100 Purchase if you use VISA Checkout. I grouped my purchases into groups just barely totalling $100 to get that discount as many times as possible. All my accessories and stuff too. 20% Off + 25% Off (if you group a perfect $100 purchase) means getting all this stuff for basically half price. Not the system (hardware doesn't qualify for 20% and Switch sold out before the VISA offer) but everything else has been pretty much half price (especially once you factor in reward points which is another 2% back, and 6% if using their CC but obviously that doesn't apply for the VISA Checkout)
@Franklin good for you if it does. Where I live, the national currency has as many odds to collapse even more by that time, nullifying any price cuts. XD
@JaxonH
Time will tell, I think the launch could be catastrophic enough for the drop in price to be much bigger than that.
@Franklin
Oh there is no way it would drop more than that. $250 is the lowest we will ever see this console this entire generation. 3DS is still hammering it out at $200, and they're not going to price their brand-new console that also doubles as a portable in the same price bracket as a 3DS.
We may see $50 by end of year, I'll concede that, but anything more just isn't gonna happen
problem is whilst the system isn't at a bad price the fact it doesn't come with a game and most people probably want a pad etc as pointed out this immediately increases the cost massively.
I'm clinging on to my day 1 preorder for now but it all seems very expensive and lacking right now. Bomberman for £50? really? street fighter 2 will probably be £50 as well. there just isn't any killer hook for me right now. Mario will be amazing but that's not out till Christmas. I may hold out till then but I honestly cant see switch being the new Wii. Nintendo have lost it, this may well be there last console release.
@sharkattacku We're clearly talking about gaming here, not the other things devices can do. And even then, you're paying $240 more for those features....which sounds right for the tech.
Furthermore, if you're making calls anywhere that usually requires a carrier with a dataplan...adding even more to the $680 figure. Let's also forget you're locked into that by contract for 24 months....
A phone is a phone and a switch is a tablet console. Things are different. Yikes.
@rjejr Not really, the argument is that Nintendo's made a blunder in pricing strategy. The article also highlights positives and expresses hope that, ultimately, Switch will succeed. It's possible to criticise something but not say Nintendoomed.
@Mart1ndo I think I'm agreement with you. My disposable income at present is being spent on retro Nintendo hardware and software rather than their new upcoming console. I'm uncertain about Zelda being openworld (but definitely buying it), Star Fox 0 was poo (IMO), no F Zero, no Metroid, I'm unsure about the new direction of Fire Emblem (though can't blame them given Awakening was a massive sales success), they seem allergic to officially release an English translation of Mother 3. Splatoon isn't really my thing (but can't knock it), I don't get Tomadachi/Miitopia, and they have an unhealthy obsession with card mechanics in games and rock, paper, scissors.
I think you're right that the Nintendo we love has died. We should probably move on and stop being grumpy old men on these sites! 😀
Removed - inappropriate language
@JaxonH
The 3DS didn't need such a price drop as the 2DS is far cheaper than that.
Also just found a 3DS online for $140.
Time will tell.
I think the pricing of the Switch package itself is entirely justified. It's a new piece of technology, so when it launches it will have a premium price at first. PS4 was $400 at launch and Xbox One was $500, both didn't have a pack-in game, so there is already a considerable price difference there. And consumers had to put down extra money to play anything on those systems at launch.
The fact Nintendo fans expect a pack-in game with the purchase of a new generation console is due to Nintendo's own practises with their last two consoles, because Sony and Microsoft haven't done this, as far as I know.
People can argue the Xbox One S and Playstation 4 Slim are now cheaper than Switch, but those are revised versions, which always come down the line of a console lifespan when the production costs come down through mass production and more efficiency by optimalization of the production proces. Regarding that Nintendo finds itself in a weird position by launching new hardware halfway the other company's console generation. Doesn't mean Switch isn't worth the money.
I agree the price of additional accessories seems steep, but none are needed to play Switch out of the box. The Pro Controller has the same functionality as when you put the Joy-Cons in the Grip, the Charging Grip is convenient, but the Joy-Cons can be charged when placed on Switch (and since the batteries of the Joy-Cons last about 20 hours, that would give you enough playtime before having to charge). An extra dock removes the hassle of taking the dock from for example the living room to the bedroom if you want to play there, but you can still do that if 90 bucks grinds your gears. Or you can play in portable mode.
Extra controllers have always been a pricey business, but considering you get 2 controllers with the system, there is no immediate need to buy more to enjoy multiplayer. Paying $80 for extra controllers with the same functionality as full fledged Wii Remotes and then some, I think it's worth it. Particularly for party games you would want 2 extra controllers. 3 extra controllers on other systems would amount to somewhere between €150 and €165 here in the Netherlands and that's when checking on budget gamesites. Maybe people don't regard them as full fledges controllers, because they are so small, but that is a bad argument.
I think it is all a matter of perspective.
Edit: And it is really too bad for Brits their currency is taking a hit, so products will be more expensive than they're used to...
There's a couple of things I find amusing...
For one, the comparison to PS4. As a PS4 owner, I can tell you right now that you can't get a PS4 any cheaper than a Switch, so that argument needs to stop right now. Second of all, you lot are comparing PS4 several YEARS after launch to a system that hasn't even launched yet. How is that remotely fair? The PS4 has been out long enough to enjoy a decent library of games and a few price drops.
Another thing I find amusing is that people are complaining about the price at all! It launches about the same price as the Wii U and is both a handheld and a console in one. The price seems completely justified. I guess all the people complaining must have somehow been involved in the making of the Switch and magically know how much it costs to build one.
@JaxonH
I'm in UK but I do shop around. BOTW is £10 cheaper some places already, some other prices have dropped and I expect some more cuts before release. I won't be paying rrp but saying that i'm happy with say BOTW and snipperclips or Bomberman (multiplayer / variety ) for a while. Pointless getting lots of games and having a backlog day one of a consoles life. BOTW will keep me busy for a long time but I could do with at least one other game for variety, other people to play or multiplayer fun and i'm afraid 1-2 switch isn't it lol.
Thanks.
"Nintendo finds itself in a weird position by launching new hardware halfway the other company's console generation. Doesn't mean Switch isn't worth the money."
You're right @Snader, but dedicated gamers like comparison at the extreme level. And you know what? Switch is noticeably less powerful, has a ridiculous internal 32GB memory, people doubts it will get the big IPs and if they get any, will look far worse, and with that panorama, it's far expensive!
OK, the system is a portable and has Wii-like controllers, but many gamers may have not care about these features, because we are in an era that friends meet on the PlayStation to play games instead of meeting into the park.
EDIT: I can't see a great launch for the Switch. Even lots of fans who bought the WiiU aren't interested in getting the Switch at launch. This can become the biggest flop of Nintendo ever. The only solution I can see is to release an Switch Home Edition for 150$.
it does seem a lot of the usual day one launch Nintendo fans are not interested in the switch (yet) and that's all down to whats available at launch. the fact that Zelda will be on wii u means theres little incentive to get a switch at launch. Im not convinced they'll sell out at launch. USA yeh probably, japan yes. rest of the world no.
@tanasten
Your perspective is skewed by the fansite bubble. And the vocal minority perpetually dissatisfied are all you see.
There are 2 million Switches launching for March and it sold out in 24 hrs. Most normal people and normal gamers don't think like fansites gamers who obsess about every nitpicky detail.
Just sit back, relax and watch. I think all these people acting like this console is going to tank are gonna be in for a shock.
@jeronan Says my comparison is ridiculous....compares a brand new system releasing in 2017 to gaming consoles that released in 2013. Yup....sure sounds legit. /sarcasm
"How in earth can you compare VR peripherals with a console?"
I'm comparing tech. PSMove controllers have weaker versions of almost all the same tech found in the joycons . Besides that, PSVR released 4 months ago....a much better (and newer) product to compare to Switch than consoles that released 3+ years ago or their mid-gen upgrades.
You can't get a PS4Pro and whatever this vague "game bundle" is for less than a Switch. On this very real Earth, unless it's super used and accidentally fell off a truck, PS4Pro costs $400, $100 more than Switch.
@tanasten "OK, the system is a portable and has Wii-like controllers, but many gamers may have not care about these features, because we are in an era that friends meet on the PlayStation to play games instead of meeting into the park."
Than maybe Nintendo is not the company and the Switch not the system for you or them. For each their own.
"Switch is noticeably less powerful, has a ridiculous internal 32GB memory, people doubts it will get the big IPs and if they get any, will look far worse, and with that panorama, it's far expensive!"
I haven't seen yet that Switch is noticeably less powerful. It runs Zelda Breath of the Wild on 900p on 30fps, like many games on Xbox One, so I find that comparable. Also Mario Kart on 1080p on 60fps. And these are just the first games for it.
Because Switch uses SD-card like Game Cards for their games with high read/write-speeds games don't need to be partially installed on the system itself to runs smoothly, like when playing from optimal media, so you don't need a 500GB or 1TB harddrive.
Unfortunately I can't ease peoples doubt if 3rd party support will or won't come to Switch. I think it all depends on how big the install base will be. If it sells like hotcakes, big IP's will come to Switch, because the market would be to big to ignore. But if they come, they won't look "far worse". We have to wait for real benchmark results, but Switch is more powerful than Wii U by quite a degree and the Wii U was more powerful than PS3 and Xbox360, but was too different from those systems to easily ports games from them. My guess is the Switch is not much weaker than Xbox One. Besides many titles on PS4 en Xbox One already ran on PS3 and Xbox360, only had a graphical overhaul on current gen, so I don't expect Switch having much trouble, considering mayor engines, like Unreal 4 and Unity, are already on board.
@Onion
"Second of all, you lot are comparing PS4 several YEARS after launch to a system that hasn't even launched yet. How is that remotely fair?"
Because that's what's going to be next to Switch in shops competing for people's money. Tough break but that's the risk with launching mid-gen.
Did anyone really expect a sub $299 price point before the fake leak of $249? C'mon. A console with a screen...you had to know it would be in the Wii U retail range, and frankly, I'm relieved that it did not hit PS4 or XBone launch prices, which would have been a major misstep.
The joycons' price should not be a surprise. First $80 is for TWO controllers, that's $40 each. As POD noted above, Motion+ Wiimotes retailed for $40 each and you needed a $20 nunchuk for some games.
Yes, the pro controller price is disappointing, but it it not needed. Big N included a controller grip so you can have a more traditional controller for one player games.
Yes, marketing 1,2 Switch at $50 seems silly. Not interested in that game in the least and if you're not, skip it. You'll probably be playing Zelda BotW for the next several months anyway.
Some of the accessory pricing seems inflated. I suspect this is just an attempt to offset offering the console for a sub $350 price.
"Nintendo is a company that does not sell hardware at a loss, and considers its content to have sufficient prestige to command premium prices." Sad but true. Now check ios top grossing charts...You see Mario Run anywhere? Nintendo once again overestimated the value and prestige of her content. I'm very sad to see big N repeating the same mistake again in Switch.
@electrolite77
It's an unfortunate fact, and eventually they'll need to bundle a game or drop the price $50 to level the playing field. But they can afford a year of sales at full price first. Had it launched same time, it could have gone longer.
But I think what people are saying, is that that doesn't necessarily make it too expensive, it just makes it a harder sell to anyone who's choosing between the two. Which won't be very many people I don't think. Most will either already own another console, or just aren't interested in other consoles, or just want the handheld aspect.
@Megas
Not sure where you were going with that post, but I wanted to congratulate you on finishing it ☺
Make it 299$ bundled with zelda or mario odyssey... Its going to sell a lot more than wanting 299$ for the ocnsole only...
@JaxonH
I think you're fair to some of the cons so I don't want to be harsh. I did disagree with you that the Switch won't hit lower than $250 this gen. The current exchange rate puts it at $256 so the current price is more about profit than cost. They could have easily launched at $250, so it's very likely they'll hit sub-200 at some point.
Also, while it's unlikely that Zelda/Mario will receive big price drops, I fully expect to be able to pick up games like Bomberman and arms for less than $20 in a year. Usually launch games that aren't AAA tank pretty hard. I loaded up on many third parties like Zombi U $10, Assassins Creed $15, Batman $15 for the Wii U.
If I'm honest I was likely to wait anyway for lower prices. Mainly because I want to see how Nintendo's online plans, account system plans, and third party plans come together. But I'll gladly take the savings of waiting a year.
@dimi "Now check ios top grossing charts...You see Mario Run anywhere?"
Super Mario Run is, according to App Annie, 10th on the Free Games Chart and 48th in the most grossing chart. So: yes! I see it!
@TheMisterManGuy I included Sony and Microsoft in my discussion. I hate Microsoft completely (due to the issues I've had with the 360 and their horrible customer service relations), but I love Nintendo and Sony...both of which I always get their consoles. But, all three only care about money, just like every other company and thing in the world. The fact is, is that everything is too expensive. Controllers don't need to cost the same amount as a brand new game, which is why it takes some people a long time before they get 2 controllers for a system...it's outrageous. Playstation VR...too expensive for my taste...Wii Balance Boards...too expensive...the Wii Zapper (actually all of nintendo's zapper guns since the NES)...not that expensive, but only have 1-3 games that use it. As for Microsoft...Kinect...expensive, but that's Microsoft who are hogs with online items on computers too. What I was also saying, is that the Switch is not that expensive when you think of getting a console and a portable.
Why do we need this charging JoyCon grip? The JoyCons have 20 hours battery charge and will charge when attached to the side of the Switch. So again why do people need a charging grip?! Plus if most peeps play solo on a ProController the JoyCons will be charging anyway.
My guess would be the infra red tracking camera is the same basic tech as in the WiiMotes but now wth better tracking software. This will be used for Wii compatibility when they're ready to announce it.
@cleveland124
Well sure, my response was more in response to dude saying anyone buying a Switch day one is a moron (I'm paraphrasing here). Trying to explain that for alot of people, potentially saving $50 on the hardware isn't worth waiting a year to enjoy. You can still wait on 3rd party games if you want to save money that way. Of course not everyone is going to feel that way but I do.
@Megas
You had me at crude oil 😉
Also the fact that preorders are filling up rather quickly for the 2 million available units in March is telling me the pricing of the Switch unit itself is fine. And this is not for a launch going into the holiday season, this is for a launch in March! Usually one of the quietest times in the year regarding gaming.
I think the reason that Nintendo is still throwing so much support behind the 3DS this year is that they know the Switch will take some time to ramp up. The initial cost will ensure that only die-hard fans and high end consumers are willing to pony up in the first 12-18 months. Which is OK. I think they have a long horizon for the Switch and thus they do not need to explode out of the gate. PS3 really struggled early on to the point where people were saying that Sony was doomed. However, it ended up selling over 80 million units.
My prediction is that there will be a price cut for holiday 2018 and that is when the Switch will really start to take off.
The problem with controllers these days is that they have so much technology packed into them that they are almost like computers themselves. They are not cheap to produce.
@BertoFlyingFox
Here in Europe I can. The Nintendo Switch is outrageously priced compared to the US! The price difference between the Switch and PS4 Pro here in Norway is only 10 bucks! I am not kidding.
@Jeronan Here In Australia, the price difference between switch and ps4 pro is $90, except the ps4 pro comes with 3 AAA games!
@JLPick Yeah man, lets not forget the whole RROD issue! I tossed my 360 in the bin when it happened and swore never to buy an MS console again.
@Syrek24
No, what it comes down to for me is remembering that this is a gaming console being discussed, not a life or death issue. I don't see the world in black and white, but make an attempt to understand different sides of an issue.
You, miss, are a bit thin skinned and judgemental.
Excellent article and I agree 100%. I'm seeing more and more negative press now that the initial excitement has worn off and that negativity leaves its mark with potential buyers. Price, is absoloutely the only reason I won't be picking up a Switch at launch and I was overwhelmingly pleased with everything else in the presentation. The Joycons? Love 'em, The games? Really appealling. The price? Not even close. It's a real shame, so I'm praying for a price drop on the console, accessories and games before Christmas.
I really haven't thought that $300 is too high at all; it's actually a bit cheaper than I expected. I will say that the accessories threw me for a loop. $80 for a controller, or a dock? Maybe it's fair, but it just felt a bit much.
@faint The PS4 - a console STILL more powerful that the Switch and with MASSIVE 3rd party support, was available at launch through Amazon as a bundle with one game, and a one year subscription to PS+ (Including free games every month - not trials) for $499. Add a game for $60 and you're still far cheaper than a comparable package for the Switch. $560 vs over $700.
Oh wait! It isn't even remotely comparable! Because you haven't paid for a subscription yet, the PS4 also gives you DVD and Bluray playback AND streaming services like Netflix AND you can upgrade you HDD easily yourself on the cheap. So while I'm not a SONY fanboy, nor do I yet own a PS4, your argument - while pithy - is invalid.
And one more lesson we all should have learned by now: Don't hold your breath for a price drop, but those not adopting on Day One should be able to take advantage on some better console/accessory/game(s) bundles offered at $299 by Big N and/or Retailers by Black Friday 2017 if not earlier (e.g., Spla2n release),
@ThomasBW84 "but not say Nintendoomed."
When you say "blunders" in the title, you don't need to also say "Nintendoomed", that would be redundant.
Do you read all the comments on here every day? For every nice positive Nintendo fan there seems to be a dozen trolls. I'm a negative person, I see all the mistakes Nintneod makes and call them on it, but even I'm having a hard time stomaching all of the person to person name calling and put downs on here. And you just handed the angry mob pitchforks and torches with this title.
The Bronx is already burning, no need to fan the flames.
@JaxonH I can't believe you replied to all 33 of that guys points, you're crazy. But in a good way.
Hadn't read about the accounts but Reggie seems to be speaking the truth these past few days. Like he threw up his arms and said - "Know what, I'm sick of towing the company line, I'm just going to start telling it like it is." Nice change of pace.
@JaxonH
I didn't say that. I am interested in BOTW but I can play it on Wii u. I also interested in the new Mario game and Pikmin 4. I want Waverace, F Zero and Metroid. I've no interest in Splatoon
I know Nintendo are still capable of greatness but their strategy has changed. If F Zero appears on Switch I'll bite.
@blinder2 The notion that most people won't need and extra set of Joy-Cons is silly... and if you think about what you are positing, a bit sad as that means they don't have many friends or family. But I digress a little. And by the way... it's just one system that you can take with you... and the more I think about it, the less I'm thinking that I will be doing that. It's not really super portable. I can pick up my 3DS and throw it in my pocket or jacket or just palm it if I'm going for a walk... especially in the summer.
You just can't do that with the Switch. And seriously.... I just outlined that the PS4 with all of the trimmings is still less... AND provides DVD and Bluray playback AND has streaming services AND you can swap out a larger HDD for MUCH cheaper than adding memory to the Switch (which is capped at 512 right now due to the tech not being there). But it's still far less than the Switch. And even at launch it was cheaper to get all of this AND a PS+ subscription, which throws free games at you every month.
So I really don't see what your argument is at all. The PS4 has massive support and great games, including some of the best rpgs/jrpgs out there. I don't own one yet, but in doing my research and looking at what I'm getting with a Switch purchase, I'm leaning towards selling my preorder and getting a PS4. I'll get my Switch when the price drops or there's an enticing bundle and wait for the hardware shakedown period and all of the coming firmware updates.
I have seen several commentators complaining that the lower value of the pound sterling has caused the cost of the Switch to be too high in the UK. I am sorry, but that is not Nintendo's fault. I know this is a situation that UK consumers are not used to, but it is a fact of life everywhere else outside of the US. I live in Canada and when our dollar is low the cost of all imported goods go up. That is economic reality. Five years ago we were paying the same price for games as US consumers. Right now we are paying 20-25% more because our dollar is low. I subscribe to a UK magazine (Retrogamer) and renewing it this year cost me less because the pound is lower. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose in the currency game. If you thought that Nintendo would slash their price in the UK to keep the price the same even though the pound is worth less then I guess you can say hello to the reality of floating currencies in a world where everything is pegged against the US dollar.
System = Too much
Online = Too much
Accessories = Too Much
Several of the games = Too Much
The hype from the die hards = Too Much
I don't want Switch to fail, but I want it to be like the 3DS. Until the price comes down, I want it to sit on shelves. It should be $250, controller prices have to come down, and 12Switch and/or Arms should be pack ins.
But who knows, maybe the Wii crowd will come back from their phones and free/$1 games to pay exhobrerent prices with the Switch...... BWAHAHAHHAAHAHA.
Almost no one wants motion controls anymore. Yet that's what we got. Only a handful of people want VR, the other current fad, but at least you can get VR porn with that.
@DeltaPeng I am comparing apples to apples, not trying to go for the cheapest set up. The PS4 has a 500GB HDD. If you want comparable storage (and you will, trust me - games, updates for games, system files, OS, firmware updates, apps when they start to appear, files for inline services, etc etc etc... it will fill up fast) you have to pay around $300 beyond the system price. And you need to think about what you are saying. Latest and greatest? When it comes to memory, you don't mess around... reliability (so you don't lose everything) and especially speed (for performance) are key. There are probably minimum requirements for the cards below which performance will be effected... or may not play at all. An even if I add two more controllers, the PS4 bundle I highlighted is STILL less expensive, includes optical media playback, streaming services, user swappable HDD (upgrade for far less than card memory) and online services that include actually free games every month).
@3MonthBeef LOL don't remind me; I am depressed enough today as is.
I guess I just don't get it.
I paid 600 dollars for my Google Nexus phone last year. Sure it has a bit more functionality than just gaming, but considering it can do very little more than your average Tracphone in terms of that 'extra' functionality, it is a bit steep.
But when it comes to it's function as a game system: there isn't a lot there. Most games ask me to pay more than a physical box game on Switch in the long run to progress (games like Pokemon Shuffle, Puzzle and Dragons) or are just one-trick ponies with a steep ad-removal price (Dan the Man, Burrito Bison). The games, in short, are terrible and are barely worth the time it takes to be 'free' to play.
The Switch, meanwhile, is launching with a new Zelda that runs better than my Wii U, has a better version of one of my favorite games (Mario Kart 8), and is going to have a lot of great games in it's immediate future. (Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem Warriors, a brand new Fire Emblem later next year).
And it's 300 dollars. Everything you need to play those games is $300. Half the price of my phone that can't play anything even -remotely- close to the kind of game I can play on the Switch. And the games are standard pricing as every other game coming out right now.
Yeah there's a lot of 'accessories' you can buy, like a Pro Controller that serves no necessity or additional purpose over the two Joy Cons that come bundled in. And additional packs of joycons are super pricey. Granted when you compare them to a PS4 controller (60 dollars at gamestop, 65 if you want a color. 5 dollars for a color?), then compare the tech within (motion, HD rumble, and an IR that can measure distance vs. .. a big, colored light that annoys me because it reflects off my TV screen) then the price makes a lot more sense.
I'm not saying everything's amazing, and I totally get why everyone would want things to be cheaper. Who doesn't want anything to be cheaper and/or free? But that isn't the reality of business, and certainly not when it comes to technology.
And honestly, all the Switch bashing on this and literally ever other site really has me down. It's been a poopoocadoodlydoo past couple of years, and I really needed Switch hype to help boost my spirits. Instead it's just been a parade of venom.
Why are you people still complaining about the first year lineup? Like I keep saying over and over, we don't know the whole lineup. Nintendo will reveal smaller games to us in the coming weeks and then bring out their big guns at E3. Please, please, please stop talking about the first year lineup being weak when it's not even close to the full lineup.
@XCWarrior
Now hold up. There's a difference between mandatory motion controls replacing normal dual analog, and simply having motion as another tool in the belt to use when appropriate. Games like Pikmin and Arms kinda depend on it (Pikmin sucks with normal controls) and Arms looks the same way.
I'm ecstatic we can use the Joycon to aim Link's crossbow in Zelda. That's how it should be. Enhance the games and make them better, more immersive and more enjoyable. And I don't know anyone who's against that. This is advanced, mature motion, integrated when it fits and where it fits, not cheap IR forced for every game.
As for the Wii crowd, it's not that far fetched. I don't think alot of them will ever come back but I DO see alot of non-avid gamers who might buy in. People who have owned consoles in the past but maybe not since Wii or PS3. All it takes is seeing Zelda and a sexy console for someone to say hey, I want that.
Normal gamers probably see
Price: going rate, same as always
Games- same as always
Accessories- don't need em, but I can afford an extra $10 more than usual for a spare controller if needed
Online- same as everyone else, can't get around paying for it
Hype- (that's up to each individual, if a person likes it and is excited, who's to say that's "wrong")
In the end, who cares if these people or those people are buying one or aren't gonna buy one. Let Nintendo worry about that. MY concern is simple- new Nintendo games incoming on new system with console games portable. Sold.
@BiasedSonyFan A) I'm not a SONY fan, B) I don't even own a PS4, but that doesn't mean that I ignore common sense and facts, C) your arguments are those of a Nintendo Fanboy and ignore facts and reality, D) I got the prices from Amazon and it includes enough memory to make the comparison even... but that fact that you don't believe you'll need more than 32GB of storage leads me to believe I shouldn't even be debating with you. Breath of the Wild alone - after accounting for storage reserved for systems functions and files - takes up about 40% of the remaining storage space. And that's before any updates, DLC, etc. You are living in a fantasy world.
@faint I can't argue with someone who actually believes - in spite of facts and reality - that systems ports would actually be worse on the PS4... a system more powerful that the Switch. I can't even believe you just said that.
@DrRandle You have to pay to play Mario Kart online, if you have more than one friend that you want to play Mario Kart with locally, that's an extra $80 you HAVE to spend. The game itself is $60, Zelda is $60, we don't know the price of the online service, but an educated guess would be at least $10 a month or $60 if you pay for the whole year.
So if you want to get the most out of Mario Kart and actually play with friends, you're going to be in it for $300 for the system, $60 for the game, $80 for extra controllers, $60 for online gaming. So, $500. Plus another $60 for Zelda. $560.
And you can only play games. Period.
Unless you want to play by yourself or one other person.
So it comes down to preference and budget I guess.
Just sayin'.
It's just stupid that the Switch is 299 Dollars in the US, yet here in Europe I'm supposed to pay 329 Euros, which amounts to about 350 US Dollars. :/ Also, stock is sold out everywhere, and even though I've pre-ordered it in several stores, none can give a definitive assurance that they'll be able to deliver come launch day.
They'd better get a mainline Pokémon game out ASAP, whether it be Stars, a remake of older titles like Diamond/Pearl, or an entirely new endeavor, just get it out there. They must have a ton of 1st party games coming out anyway, they haven't been working on 3DS/Wii U titles at all for a long time (save for Zelda)... I just have no clue why they won't just announce as much as possible, even if they're a ways off yet - this is no time to hold back.
@legendwaker THANK YOU! Finally someone who's talking with some sense!
I'll agree with @DrRandle here. The Switch is the cheapest of all 3 gaming systems, and also under any phone worth its while these days. And while people complain about the price at launch, they've already forgotten the prices for the PS4 and XBone at launch too...
The price never bothered me. The games that are coming out never bothered me. The specs do not bother me.The haters bother me. They do not seem to get that it is a handheld/hybrid. They want to claim Xbox or Sony is better. I usually have all 3 consoles. If the games I wanted is on a another console it is not an issue, but this cycle I did not buy an Xbox. Sony's and Microsoft's game seem the same. They just have great specs because of that the games take longer to make and cost more.( of course you can get them on sale.) I just didn't feel the need to buy an Xbox. I'm not making videos or talking smack about Xbox specs or say that the games are better or worse. There are not many exclusives. This generation got way nasty. The haters are starting again. Sure you can talk about What Nintendo Switch should have but don't be unreasonable about the prices. Do not say the specs suck. Do not say the games suck. I may prefer Nintendo but I always put games first. If there is a good game and I want it, I'm going to get it regardless of console. I think the Switch will do awesome. It is in a different market than Microsoft and Sony.
All of this concern about price underscores the point that console life cycles need to be longer. On the one hand, people like having new tech. Its exciting. On the other hand, it sucks to have to shell out lots of money every 5-6 years to get a new machine and a whole new set of controllers and then have to endure the drought of games for your shiny new toy while developers get up to speed. With mid-life updates (N3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox Scorpion etc) platform holders should be able to give a performance boost that extends the life of the system and allows for better games without forcing consumers to do a full reboot. You have to shell out for a new system, but all of your existing software and controllers will still work with it so it is not as painful. I hope Switch will get 10 years of support from Nintendo and there will be no successor until the machine is 7-8 years old.
@rjejr I see comments that tag me, I don't always have time to browse all the way through.
We just don't agree on the headline thing, but that's fine, I appreciate opinions and feedback. The fact is I think the Nintendo Switch pricing is an error, a blunder or whatever, and a week of thinking about it hasn't changed that opinion. I hope ultimately it's not a problem, as I say in the article, but a 3DS-style backtrack and price drop later in the year wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, or perhaps the same price but with a major must-have game included in the box.
As it stands my fear isn't Nintendo selling out at launch, it'll do that - Wii U and 3DS sold a few million units apiece at launch. It's what happens in late April onwards that's the unknown. My fingers are crossed though; as I said in the article, hoping for the best but aware that the worst could happen.
@NintendoFan4Lyf I'm sorry, but this is not the case. :/
You'll have to buy it again... But you can now buy the campaigns as stand alone for less money, if you want to play only one of them on the Switch.
What they are upgrading is the normal version. Now that there's standalones, the normal version will be upgraded to the "every campaigns" version.
It's the exact same thing, it's only to avoid some confusions about the standalone versions that's coming out.
@Louie06 @legendwaker Seconded. Some people see a cheap, cop-out tablet and I see some genuine, worthwhile tech.
@AlternateButtons Hi, I really think that you ar eseeing it more than for what it is. A 3 year old processor, a regular screen, mediocre battery and a shameful 32 gb internal memory, making the "tablet" part of the console regular at best in terms of cost of production (same story with the Wii U gamepad that everyone liked to brag on how expensive it wa sfor nintendo and it had again components that couldnt be cheapear), the grip is a piece of plastic and the dock also (plastic with usb ports and tv out), so the "most expensive components" would be the joycons but compared to what they sell in standalone (where a great profit is also made) they ar enot that expensive either... so yes nintendo has plenty of room to lower this console price, the price might be right for a launch console but it is no way competitive in the actual market and thats a key poing on the Wii success too.. it wasnt just the motion controls it was the price.. so in retail Nintendo wont have that appeal.. so I disagree with you, the price is not right and when you look at the games its a total turn off for everyone planning on getting it too..
@tanasten
You're not allowed to have a negative opinion about the Switch, hater!
(Sarcasm)
No paid online!!! I dont care if Nintendo onlien services were bad ( and dont even think that way) at least they were free and in the end thats what matters!!
@Iggy-Koopa @legendwaker I really can't stand these "consumers" nowadays. Everyone wants a say so in the pricing of these consoles. The PlayStation 4 is the first non-Nintendo console that I've owned, and I really don't enjoy it. I don't play my Wii U as much as I used, because I'm always at work! My nephew got an X-Box One for Christmas and that is one console that SUCKS!! I welcome being able to take my Switch to work with me so that I can play games on the go! $300 is FINE FOR ME! It comes with TWO controllers!! People annoy the hell out of me to think they deserve more than that for $300. Remember those other consoles makers prices are many times higher, and if you got an extra controller in the bundle, YOURE DEFINITELY NOT GETTING A GAME!
@LegendOfPokemon Thank you for understanding where I was coming from. I don't even own a PS4, but after doing my own research I've almost convinced myself to pull the trigger on one... especially since I'm a big jrpg fan and love the Persona/Shin Megami Tensei games.
The Switch will be a niche product and coveted by Nintendo fans for the foreseeable future, imho... unless Nintendo corrects it's pricing or offers compelling bundles and corrects their value proposition. They could very well end up with another Gamecube (I think it will do better than the Wii U) situation, which I don't believe will be able to carry them to another system. I don't think it's too late for them to out things out and maybe throw out some surprises at E3, but it's not an ideal launch (or launch window) and they've already lost momentum and investor's confidence (and the market has spoken as a result).
@Anti-Matter So you're going to buy a game first but wait for the system's price to come down later? Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm torn on the Switch.
On the positives:
$300 as a price point of entry really is very reasonable.
I really like the portable/home console concept, and have already enjoyed it first-hand for years with the Playstation Vita/Playstation TV, which has provided true home console experiences on the go by delivering games available for PS3/PS4. But Vita is starting to show signs of its age, so something to step in and take its place would be ideal.
Seeing 3rd party game ports like Disgaea 5 and Skyrim is promising. If porting older games is on the table...hey Nintendo, get Bethesda to port Fallout 3 and New Vegas to the Switch (or make it known this is happening), I will buy a Switch immediately, no questions asked. A solid drawing program early in the launch cycle would also be enough to push me into a purchase.
While it won't be available on release, the new Mario game looks fun.
On the negatives:
...You know what, there's already enough negativity here. So I'll just say I have concerns which I hope Nintendo will address. Preferably quickly, before I go spend my tax return cash on something else in the coming months.
@ThatNyteDaez Wow, in the US, the "New" 3DS is $100 cheaper then the Switch.
I Feel like the price for the core system is okay, not great. 1 2 switch should be a pack in game, or at least some game, any game. The accessories all feel 5-15 dollars too expensive. The games like Bomberman should be 20 dollars. Everything is just a little too expensive right now for my tastes, but not by a lot. I feel like they increased the prices of the Switches hardware and accessories to makeup for costs from the bombing Wii U.
Another that annoys me is that people keep comparing Nintendo's new online subscription to PS Plus and X-Box live. I'm going to be honest, I pay for PS-Plus and those "free games" a month are so lame most times, I don't bother to download them! Let's not talk about how the I constantly have to delete games to make more space! That's annoying as hell! I don't even take advantage of the online play! I don't care about paying for the service, because it's something I want to do, but truthfully I prefer local multiplayer! I want to play games with people I KNOW! Not being able to stream Netflix and such is not a problem. I mean every other device we all have has all those apps on it!
Not packing in a game is basically setting the retail price 50$ higher. Nobody will buy a console without at least one game so the basic outlay will be a minimum of 350$.
@ThomasBW84 I'm not excited about the price, but I think it's the least of their mistakes, it's just the easiest and most concrete thing so it's easy to focus on. The price probably would have been ok had they announced it back in early November when everybody was in full blown shopping mode, I think most people were thinking $299 back then, it was only later on that $250 became the expected price. The dock was always going to be daft at $90, still can't wrap my head around that one. The poorly thought out PSTV was going for about $90 and that streamed PS4 games and played some Vita games and a few other apps. The dock just sits there doing nothing for $90, that's to much. Even at $50 it would be too much but psychologically $49 is way better than $89. The Joycon at $80 aren't really that bad, just not good. Just like $299 isn't bad, it just isn't good, there's a difference.
The event was a disaster. Bad translators, too much focus on 1 2 Switch and ARMS, not enough focus on anything new, b/c there wasn't really anything new. Nintneod had that great hipster trailer back in Oct, showing off Skyrim, Splatoon, FIFA, MK8, Zelda and Mario Odyssey. That was all in 2:38. Then they announced a live event months in advance, so people expected great things. But all we got were the same games we already knew about in the trailer, and ARMS and 1 2 Switch. The price was fine, if Zelda or MK8D or Spla2oon or Mario Odyssey had been packed in. The problem w/ not packing in a game is that everybody talks about no packed in game, regardless of the game or the price.
And Kimishimi told us the Switch was delayed to March from holiday b/c they wanted a proper game line-up, but all they gave were ports. Zelda is a Wii U port. Spring, summer, holiday, games are coming, but not at launch.
So yeah, a lot to be disappointed about. Including the price if you were a Wii U owner and thought Nintnedo owed you something. Apparnetly they dont think theyowe anybody anythingand priced Switch what they think it's worth.
But really, how was Switch going to be less than $299? New 3DS XL is $199, that's basically 6 year old tech, w/ a sad low resolution screen, no TV out, and 1 player. So take that $199 New 3DS XL, replace the weak chipset w/ Nvidia X1, add TV out, replace the screen w/ 720p multitouch, and make the controls come off the side for 2 player tabletop gaming. How is that new system not worth $100 more than a New 3DS XL? Wii U is $299 and you can't take the Gamepad more than 8' from the TV and it has the same bad battery life and a low res screen. How can Switch cost less than Wii U when it's better hardware all around? It's Wii U 2 done right. It was never going to be less than $299 unless you think it's worse hardware than Wii U and only slightly better than New 3DS XL.
Of course we both know Wii U should have been $199 a year ago and New 3DS XL $149 a year ago, but they aren't. Nnntedo charges $199 for 6 year old tech New 3DS XL and $299 for 4 year old tech Wii U. How can Switch be less than $299 from Nintendo knowing how they price their hardware? Nvidia chips, 720p screen, 2 Rumble HD Wiimotes. $299 Switch isn't the problem, everything else Nintendo does is.
Quite honestly rinse and repeat when it comes to switch. Those trailers who exactly are they marketing too. Is it casual gamers or is it Wii U owners. In my honest opinion I have been an on and off again gamer for 30 years and I draw the line at the Wii U when it comes to Nintendo anyway. The Switch to me looks like a slightly improved Wii u in terms of graphics and power. I by no means am a graphics junky but from what I've seen so far when they show MK8 comparisons and Splatoon comparisons are so minimal to me. I feel that nintendo really isn't giving me a reason to want to upgrade and furthermore seeing the division among nintendo sites makes me wonder how are they going to get other gaming communities interested in this. Over priced hardware and peripherals that will run about 500 to 600 by the time you get the console and accessories with no games still. No thanks I have invested enough in Wii- U and the Switch honestly the only positive thing going for is portability but then again only 2.5 hour to 3 hour battery life. Well it was nice while it lasted goodbye Nintendo at least for this generation. I will not be making the Switch.
Last night my wife and I were laughing at how lame the switch looks and their pricing of it. I too think it will have a shorter life span than the Wii - U. I'm also calling it that they will sell a little under the Wii - U. When you factor in some Wii-U owners that will upgrade as well as 3DS owners.
@dkxcalibur
Yup. I did it also for 3DS (My first original video games ever) and Wii U. Switch will be same also. Because in my country, if I order specific games too late, probably my local seller can't find anymore. Note, i'm Indonesian people. In my country, still less people want to buy original things. A lot of peoples in my country like pirated stuffs, jailbroken gadgets, etc. Extreme cheapskater.
@JaxonH The motion controls, which I don't want anymore despite really enjoying the Wii, are causing the joy cons to cost a lot more. I don't want to milk a cow, or put ice cubs in my joy con. I just want to hit buttons anymore. I'm too tired anymore after a work day to mess with motion controls, so those things are jacking up the price of the console and don't appeal to me.
If you feel like people are going to come back, great. We disagree. No way to know until probably about May.
I got a brand new gaming PC for Black Friday. I don't have to pay for online. So no, it's not like everyone else.
Sounds like you have a good job, or at least don't care about saving money, so you can afford the prices. Great. Not everyone can and some of us have to wait for sales to buy things. Your situation is not like everyone else's.
"MY concern is simple- new Nintendo games incoming on new system with console games portable. Sold." - You were going to buy a Switch no matter what. I've been a dedicated Nintendo fan since the NES, but I also stopped looking at them with blind love. Nintendo makes mistakes. This past gen, they made a lot. I'm going to wait to see if they have fixed some of the mistakes before I consider buying a Switch.
But for ME PERSONALLY, I need the following: System $250. No online pay to play. Trophy system. Monster Hunter. Clear signs they will get 3rd party support so we aren't waiting for the next Nintendo game every 6-8 weeks. Motion controls used only in a few games.
So I need to wait it out. You don't. Great. But the costs for the system, what this article is about, in my mind are way too high for a lot of it. 1 2 Switch will be $15-20 by December, so will Arms. That's my prediction.
@XCWarrior
Dude, I'm about as hardcore as gamers come and will not be playing a new Star Fox, Pikmin or Metroid unless there is a motion controlled option to play them. I'm not goin' back and I refuse to believe I'm among an endangered species. I will love Breath of the Wild, but I will regret the fact that I can't swing a sword or power it up like I did in Skyward Sword. He's hoping we get that option back in a future Switch made Zelda.
@rjejr
I agree that people are making too much of a deal on the price. The price of the console is right (eventhough I believe it should include a pack-in, but whatever).
Any price lower than $299 would begin to cannibalize the 3DS and that ain't a smart business move at this stage. If Switch loses momentum or 3DS sales begin to fall drastically, Ninty canoffer Switch packages without the charging dock and sell it for $199 (maybe with a pack in game). There is no need to worry about this thing being a hit. It has safeguards already built into its package.
PlayStation VR is a £350 peripheral in the UK and it's flying off the shelves. All retailers were sold out in December. So I think there will be amble people out there who will be prepared to pay £280 for Switch.
Inevitably the Switch price will fall (or at least I hope it as Nintendo stubbornly kept the Wii-U price high throughout its life) and then more people will purchase when they perceive higher value and are tempted by the availability of more games.
P.S. For those who think the $90 hub is expensive think of it this way, it includes the AC adapter ($30) and a high quality HDMI cable ($10) so the hub itself is $50 and is by no means an essential item so I' not quite sure why so many people are getting so emotional about it. I had to pay BMW £150 for an iPhone Snap-In adapter and whilst expensive the connivence it provided to me over 3 years meant it was worth every penny.
The price of the console is exactly where I expected it, actually I wouldn't have been surprised if it was £300 instead of £280. I also didn't expect to get the switch grip included so to me that's a plus.
I'm pretty sure it cost me a similar amount for the 3ds when that launched, though I did get mine imported from the US because region-locking.
The accessories cost a ridiculous amount though and certain games should be cheaper, which I think they will be soon enough.
@Turbo857 I want Star Fox 64 controls and a new story, not another remake. I enjoyed Star Fox Zero, but I've only beaten the game 1 time. That is literally about 150-200 less times than I beat SF64. Pikmin is a good game for motion controls.... pass on Metroid. I did enjoy Skyward Sword sword fighting to a point - except for the fact all bosses were too easy because you were limited on your attack options, so they had to be too.
I do like your idea about when Switch stops selling, they should remove the Dock, and I say remove the detachable joycons, and just make a Switch portable for like $150.
Although honestly I just expect a succesor to 3DS which actually has backwards comptability. Don't get me started on how Switch lacks that so a bunch of suckers are going to be buying Super Mario Bros for, what, the 10th time at full price?
@Turbo857 "Switch packages without the charging dock and sell it for $199 (maybe with a pack in game)"
That's almost certain to happen, at least in Japan, at some point, they don't really care about home console games. SwitchBoy will almost certainly happen as well, Switch is too big and expensive for kids, need something to replace the $79 2DS. Not now, but eventually.
I'm fine with $300. But $50 for 12 Switch and Bomberman is absurd. Both should be budget priced. $70 for a pro controller is absurd. $30 for a charging grip is absurd since it's not bundled
@XCWarrior
Do what you want. I never said you should buy one. But the advanced rumble will do far more than the 1-2 Switch mini games. Those are tech demos to demonstrate what it can do. Practically speaking that tech will mean better rumble and more immersive experience. For all games. And a wider range of tools for developers so that games can be enhanced (like Zelda or Pikmin or Arms). And tbh I don't really care if more casual players buy one or not. I think people spend more time talking about whether a system is going to be popular or not than they do actually talking about games. So whether you're right, I'm right, what does it matter.
I got a gaming PC too. And I haven't paid for online on any console since my subs expired. Didn't stop me from playing on PS4 or X1, and it won't stop me from playing Switch. There's only 2 games I'd play online all generation anyways, and one of them will have free online this summer.
It's not so much blind love as it is having priorities in order. Ya, the paying for online sucks, but how much will it actually affect me? Little to none. No more than any other console. Yes I'd like to see trophies, but far be it from me to skip a game I want to play because it doesn't have record keeping for arbitrary achievements. But you're right, I was always sold, but that's because first and foremost I value fun games and I see a good many Nintendo games coming I want to play. And I think its great to be able to play them anywhere, like at work. All the other stuff is just noise in comparison.
Wasn't trying to challenge you, or make you angry (you seem a little edgy). Just having a discussion
@Tsusasi
You have to pay to play Mario Kart online - Comperable, though unfortunate, to having to play any game online on PS4 and XBOX One. No win for Nintendo, sure, but certainly not different.
if you have more than one friend that you want to play Mario Kart with locally, that's an extra $80 you HAVE to spend. - How would you have to pay an extra 80? Use two Joycons that came in the box. Also of note: you would have to buy a second controller on any other system, too.
The game itself is $60, Zelda is $60, we don't know the price of the online service, but an educated guess would be at least $10 a month or $60 if you pay for the whole year. - Educated guess places it at more than TWICE what you pay for Gold and Plus? That doesn't sound right; it'll probably be 60 per year, at most.
So if you want to get the most out of Mario Kart and actually play with friends, you're going to be in it for $300 for the system, $60 for the game, $80 for extra controllers, $60 for online gaming. So, $500. Plus another $60 for Zelda. $560.
Now you're factoring in multiple games, which is a moot point, they cost the same as competitor games. Let's use the PS4 with your exact example: 399 for the base, now inferior model, another 65 for the controller for your friend, 60 for your game, and 60 for your online: Now you're at 585. Sounds like you're getting a good deal on switch; it has a more expensive (unnecessary in this example) controller.)
And you can only play games. Period. - what else do you want your video game console to do? Make skype calls? Play blu-rays even though it has no disc slot? Netflix and those won't be there at launch, sure, but they're coming. How much more did you expect it to do?
@JaxonH Fair enough.
And yeah, I know I'm edgy. I work for a newspaper. We have to use social media so I see everything constantly. In other words, our TV is tuned to 1 thing and its the same thing social media is buzzing about. I want him to go away...
I predict after the initial sales burst its NOT going to do well at all as its way to expensive for what it is and needs to be bought with a game or 2 plus other stuff thats just to much money to outlay by the AVERAGE consumer for a tablet console.
Nintendo really needs to work on supply issues been waiting for 2 months to buy a nes classic mini.
If people can't buy a switch when they decide they want one then that will be enough for them to spend their money elsewhere.
You. Cannot. Use. Two. Joy-Con. Controllers. To. Play. With. More. Than. One. Friend.
One friend and you = Included controllers. More than one friend and you = Additional controllers @ $80.
I said $10 a month or $60 if you pay for the whole year... that is exactly what it costs for a Live Subscription.
There is a PS4 bundle right now on Amazon (inferior... wow dude. Reeeeeeeeeeeach) with Uncharted AND an extra controller. The system, a game and an extra controller (Stay with me here - we are now at 2 controllers) brand freakin' new for $318. And even without the bundle, the system goes for $299. I don't know where you got $399. Now add $50 for the sub (free games dude), and hell... let's throw in another game at $60 and two more controllers @ $60 (they've been going for less lately, but I'll give you this)... and I now have a system that has DVD and Bluray, Netflix and other streaming apps, gives me free games with my sub, four controllers, two games and a 500GB HDD. I'm at $548 right now and already have more going for me/better value proposition.
Anther controller is unnecessary? Only if you have no friends or family that game.
I only mention the multiple games because you used those as selling points and examples of what you would purchase, so not a mute point.
They said that they are evaluating Netflix and external HDD. They have made no guarantees and if they do bring on board streaming apps, chances are it will be locked behind the online sub pay wall (like Microsoft used to do with live) and probably from your damn phone.
And yes... we live in a world where tech does and should do more.
For both the Dreamcast and the Gamecube, not having DVD was a factor in their demise. While that may not carry the same weight today, families and people on a budget have limited funds and space for systems and electronics in general. Why would you make a dedicated box that removes all other entertainment functions and then try to compete for that $ and space?
And honestly, I could replace that $60 game with 3 really great discounted games, as the system has a decent selection of triple A titles that are now budget ranged.
I'm not saying that the Switch isn't interesting and doesn't have some cool tech. I'm not saying that the idea of quasi-portable gaming on a home system (we have to think differently about what we call 'portable' for that to stick) isn't a cool notion, what I'm saying is that it's all over-valued and unlike a company like SONY that has other products and divisions it can fall back on, Nintendo might not even be ABLE to take a loss on the system, although they are the only company that refuses to. But even if they could and did, if they didn't also lower the price of peripherals and price games like 1-2 Switch more realistically (or just freakin' pack it in), they wouldn't get the attach rate they'd need.
@rjejr
I dunno. I personally never wanna see a smaller Switch. Smaller Switch means smaller or no Joy-Cons = fracturing the install base while limiting the hardware capabilities of the console. The 2DS was for kids but you can't fit that thing in a pocket so I don't think shrinking the screen size of the Switch is a smart business move. Selling a Switch, as is, without a charging dock or a price drop here in there should be sufficient enough to move units when necessary without drastically altering the current hardware design imo.
@Louie06
"I really can't stand these "consumers" nowadays. Everyone wants a say so in the pricing of these consoles".
And they're right. There's no need for the inverted commas on consumers. That's what people are and they are entitled (proper use of the word) to an opinion and to their own take on what constitutes value. Consumer goods companies need consumers more than consumers need consumer goods.
@electrolite77 okay... well continue playing on your other devices and disregard the Switch you beautiful consumer you.
@XCWarrior
"they should remove the Dock, and I say remove the detachable joycons, and just make a Switch portable for like $150."
Nah, a Switch portable without Joycons is no longer a Switch. You can remove the dock to make it cheaper (later on) and still retain the console's integrity.
"Although honestly I just expect a succesor to 3DS which actually has backwards comptability. Don't get me started on how Switch lacks that so a bunch of suckers are going to be buying Super Mario Bros for, what, the 10th time at full price?"
Like it or not, Switch is the 3DS successor (it's just not being advertised as that atm). But I agree that digital purchases of retro games (up to the Wii at least) should be transferable for free. If I have to buy Punch-Out and Super Punch Out yet again, I'm going to go crazy!
@JaxonH
Thanks man. I'm definitely not on a crusade agains Switch. I want it to do well. Against all logic I'm thinking of keeping my pre-order at the minute. But like you I can see that Nintendo aren't perfect and are running risk of a few mistakes. I've also always been really interested in the business side of the industry since I got my first 8-bit computer back in 1988.
The focus on the positives will come. There's a steady ticking over of announcements. Soon people will have that lovely looking hardware in their hands. And because they need it to succeed I do believe Nintendo will get that software flow coming.
@Louie06
?????
@electrolite77
Ya, I'm thinking once people take it out the box and feel it in their hands, and see Zelda running on that screen, and pop the Joycons off and play with a new controller setup (the GamePad has run its course) there's gonna be alot of hype.
I know I'm excited to play this thing
I really don't get all the negativity around the Switch. Well, I do because certain people just want to see it fail but there are some simple facts that people are just ignoring. Nintendo relies on its gaming business. Sony and Microsoft don't. Nintendo may have good income but it will never compete against 2 giants who have much bigger businesses. Sony have music contracts, record labels, TV's, etc. Nintendo can't compete with that level of financial input!!
So it's not going to try to. Switch is aimed at casual gamers. If that upsets the hardcore then so what? Nintendo isn't asking them to like or buy its products. Would I really be bothered about playing GTA on a Nintendo machine? No, not really.
Do I want to play MARIO, Zelda, Mario Kart, Splatoon, FIFA at home and be able to carry on even when I leave the house? Hell yes!
Why do you think Nintendo delivered the reveal at a time to suit Japan and the US? Because they know Switch has a better chance there than in Europe although judging by Amazon, Game, Tesco to name a few, it isn't going to struggle as much as some people think or indeed want it to.
I agree that it is over priced but not so much so that it would put me off because I want to play something different.
PS4 had stormed this generation but look at the so called triple A games- Remakes, remasters, re hashes. And Switch is going to have plenty of that too.
Not too many complained about PSVR's price point and having owned the system, and sold it, its novel but it's just a showpiece that , like Vita, will slowly disappear from view. You talk about a lack of support for Switch but Sony are hardly even supporting their own VR system!!
Switch will probably have VR at some point but more akin to the Galaxy set up. Simple, accessible and noble of this falling over twenty million sodding wires.
If people want to write the Switch off already, let them. But why keep moaning about it. Look, you either buy it or you don't.
Mines ordered along with BOTW, 1-2 Switch, MARIO Kart 8 deluxe and I can't wait to start switching!
The moaners? Maybe it's time you just switched off.
I totally disagree. Just let nintebdo be nintendo. The tru proble is us, people who do not work for the conpany but think that know what is better for nintendo and what should be their selling strategy. And you are getuing it totally wrong. What you express is the strategy that YOU want nintendo yo fallow.
I mean come on... 120 bucks for a limited edition zelda game?? That is just absurd, but people have bought it, and its already sold out. Therefore stop complaining about prices. As long as thete ate nintendo fanboys, nintendo will continue to exist. Nintendo will never teully have financial problems. If they ever feel the pressure of going bankrupt all thty have to do is releas etheir games in other sistems, and then they will became super rich again.
You keep o talki about how we qant nintendo to perform well financially, but that is bs. If you want nintendo to perfotm well financially then you should want nintendo to release their games o other platforms, because at the end that is what is financially better for nintendo.
But no, the swicth cost more than what you would like to pay an you blame nintendo for it. And you assume that because it is to much for you, then it qill be to much for most of the people and theredore your final conclusion is that the switch wont sell enough to get true third party support, making the switxh become the wii u 2.
But dude... sirously... Do you own a wii u?? Because the wii u has been an awesome console. Yeah... it might not have many games, but man, when I was a kid I did not have more than 20 games for any of my consoles. And having 20 games seemed more than enough. The replay value of the wii u games is breath taking.
I have played splatoon at least 1 hour per day since it came out and I still not bored of playing it. When I feel i nees something different I play MK8, and when i want something trully comoetitve and fun I play smash. Those 3 games alone would have been more than enough for me when I was a kid. Add zeldas, bayonetas, marios, mario maker, dk... and you actually have an awesome catalog. The only need for third party support is so that non diehard nintendo fans are willing to pay for the sistem...I mean... how many of you who bought the wii u will still buy the switch on day 1 even if you do not know for sure if it will end up having true third party support?? Probably most of you.
We will get splatoon and mk in the first months, aside from a zelda that looks like it will be mind breaking. Those 3 games alone arw more than enough for the first year.
Your problem is that you keep complaining about price... but good games last for a very long time, and playing games that are fun and last long means not having to waste money in new games. Those 3 games can give you fun until the end of the year and make you save money that you would use on other games.
So no. The fun you will have with the switch is not expensive, it is actually cheap. Ps4 and X-one might have many games and many third party support, but people who own them en up buying at least one new game per month because they get bored of all the other games they have. I still have not got bored of splatoon, smash, and mk. So sorry man, but the switch first year is amazing. I mean the only thibg missing are a new smash and a new metroid, and i am sure we will eventually get them.
So sorry man, but if paying 330 bucks for having the opportunity to play zelda, mk, splatoon and mario in the first year seems expensive to you, then you should ask yourself what is more worth your money. Never before has an awesome launch been so exiting and cheap.
And if the swith fails financially because it was 50 bucks above the "expected price" then it simply means that the market does not deserve such an awesome sistem (same as what hapoened with the wii u).
What really killed the wi u were not sales or third party support, it was nintendo by deciding to move on to their next sistem.
And the same will happen to the switch. If it is ever killed, it will be because nintendo has decided that they want to move to a new sistem, not because of sales.
The problem is not pricing - it's that people who own multiple consoles (or another console) does not want to spend additional funds on another console given options. For someone who will only have one console, these prices are inline with other prices for XB/PS. You guys criticize Big N for joycon prices but for most games a pair of joycons can be shared by two players so u get two player gaming out of the box. The price for 1/2 Switch is inline with similar pricing for Nintendo Land @ retail. Bomberman is a whole new game with voice acting and online play (free until Fall) so you get value there. Plus it uses one joycon per player (under previous generations of consoles, a game like bomberman would require a controller purchase (50$) so the true cost of multiplayer play went up) - u guys complaining are upset at having other hardware for other systems which makes the purchase decision more difficult money wise. I stopped supporting multiple consoles long ago and feel great about the switch. With my Wii U trade, the switch is costing me $105 bucks. Add a joycon package (80), and three games ($140) and I'm at $325 with the ability for 4 players to play bomberman and a party game like 1/2 switch. What you guys need to do is sell your other consoles so your price can come down.
@legendwaker Right there, that's exactly it. Plus, if the Switch was, say, $250, that would put a "needed" price cut on the New 3ds (which has a huge amount of popularity still, ahem, Pokemon)
I don't get the railing on the price. $300 is too much, but $250 was the sweet spot? GTFO
I was expecting 2 SKUs again (like with Wii U) and was fully prepared to buy the more expensive one, which I guess would've been $300 anyway. For those $300, you get the Switch, the $80 Joy Con (essentially two controllers), the $90 dock, and the completely optional Joy Con Grip.
Seeing as it's already more expensive than I would have liked and hoped—so I'm immediately going slightly higher than I'd want to here—I now think it should be £250 with a bundled digital game (Zelda would be so ideal, and it's the only real system seller available at launch anyway).
Also, I think the games are overpriced in general, and the standalone peripherals definitely are (Joy-Cons, dock, Pro Controller, etc.)
PS. I absolutely wouldn't bundle 1-2 Switch as the only game in the box with the system as I feel it totally paints the wrong kind of picture of what this system is all about. It would be fine if it were in there alongside a proper deep game, like Breath of the Wild, or if it were a $20 eShop title or something like that.
I'd like to join @ThomasBW84 regarding Nintendo being more ambitious. Another example for this is the news of the Switch not supporting streaming games (at least not rightaway).
Nintendo already made a big mistake during the Wii U's lifetime by alienating most active youtubers with their strict licensing model and I think apart from the terrible naming and non-existent marketing, this was the single biggest reason for the Wii U's commercial failure.
Nintendo probably never realised the impact of that decision. I think you can't underestimate the value of let's plays (even though I hate them personally) and livestreams nowadays. It's free advertisement for the system because millions and millions of people watch these games and this creates way more attention for the games as well.
What made it even worse was the lack of out-of-the-box support for streaming from the Wii U. PC, PS4 and XB1 all support streaming games, so it's no surprise that they are doing so well (well maybe not the XB1). So anyone who wanted to stream games from his Wii U had to buy a capture card and those are pretty expensive.
Sure, an ambitious streamer will buy a capture card anyway, but for everyone else, streaming via software is suffice. Those people are streaming (PC, PS4 and XB1 games) just because they can, and that adds more attention for the games they play, so more people start talking about these games, which leads to more people buying them.
I think after all this time, Nintendo still don't understand how the internet works, especially how it amplifies people's impressions of anything (good and bad).
Not only didn't Nintendo change its stance on Youtube licensing, they also didn't incorporate direct streaming into the Switch (for now). As @ThomasBW84 already said, it's not 2006 anymore and Nintendo have to acknowledge this. Otherwise, together with the pricing and all the other things that can be criticized, I think the Switch will become the next commercial failure.
@JaxonH
I was hoping there would be some tour thing to let people play it but I guess that's something that if it happens will be closer to the big Holiday sales season.
Certainly strikes me that every single review, write-up, video etc. discussing the Switch has said only positive things about the design, build quality and of course the screen.
@electrolite77
Same. The Vita screen was absolutely gorgeous, and I've heard at least 2 different people make comparisons to it. If that's true, it's going to make for one beautiful gaming experience.
I used to (and still do) play certain games on Vita instead of PS4 simply because of how beautiful it looked. Only sucked because the graphics were so much less impressive. With Switch that won't be an issue. I mean, no it won't be quite as good as PS4 but it'll be reasonable close, unlike Vita which was still a very considerable gap below PS3. Maybe between PS2 and PS3 if I had to estimate.
I know Wii U wasn't really noticeable more powerful than PS3, but you could see it with some of the 1st party games (it had a crap CPU but much better GPU so CPU-intensive AAA ports didn't really play to the system's strengths). But there was a small jump. With Switch we see Mario Kart go from 720p to 1080p, and Zelda (which is much more graphically intense) jump to 900 (think it has better graphical detail though too).
Combined, it's a decent push above 7th gen power. Not on par with say, an Xbox One, but given the system is portable I'd say that's pretty astounding to even be anywhere near that level of power. And that's really exciting to me. I'm not a graphics whoremonger (I play 3DS games still, even retro) but it is exciting seeing a system that powerful on a handheld screen. It's like Switch is the Vita I always wanted (real console graphics, no proprietary memory, full suite of buttons so games don't have to map to the touch screen) but with Nintendo games on it and cool as heck detachable controllers.
I know alot of people have kinda brushed off Skyrim but, I can't tell you how excited I am to see that game (the Special Edition at that) on a handheld screen similar in quality to Vita. I honestly think I'd buy Switch just for that. And, well, Zelda and Fire Emblem and Mario. And even though it's a port, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Having that game on the go, running on par with Wii U version in handheld mode, with 2 controllers at the ready any time... it's a gamer's dream come true. I've already told all my coworkers we're having Mario Kart tourneys in the back office come March 😁
I don't know, as long as I'm getting a PS4 Slim with a game for 249€, it's gonna be pretty hard to justify the Switch alone for 329€. The lineup isn't anywhere near impressive for a year one buy and the nickel and diming from Nintendo leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It's too expensive to be portable. I wouldnt dare take it outside.
@bolt05 I didn't have the red ring...I had problems with the system crashing in other ways. My first one began erasing games downloaded, then the save data...the second one kept on asking for a password every time I would turn it on...eventually it blocked my whole account and I couldn't do anything on it...the third one did the erasing again and the last one that I had, was doing the whole account thing again. When I called Microsoft for all of these problems, they basically told me to start a whole new account and buy the downloads again...hmm...good customer service there.
With nintendo and sony, I never (knock on wood there) had any bad customer service from neither, and they would always fix the problems that I did occur! That's kind of why I always choose nintendo and sony...plus, those two at least keep their IP's going onto each of their systems, and they both have great IP's. Microsoft (the original X-box) had a lot of games that I did enjoy, so did the 360, but the IP's were dumped after each system (Blinx The Time Sweeper, Project Gotham Racing, Rallisport Challenge, Tork Prehistoric Punk, Whacked, Kung Fu Chaos, Viva Piñata, Grabbed By The Ghoulies and so much more). I still have my original X-box...basically for Blinx, Tork and Toe Jam And Earl 3, but I'll never re-purchase a 360, and I'm hesitant on owning an Xbox One for the same things happening to me on that one.
The premise of the article is great, and I like some of the points, but it also contradicts itself in too many places. It's ultimately making the case that the pricing of the console ecosystem is causing rejection by consumers and supports that case by rightly pointing out that US pre-orders sold out lightening fast. True, the early adopters and scalpers may not indicate a long term sutained sales trend, but it's hard to argue a consumer perception problem based on price if machines are, so far, selling faster than they can allocate inventory. If sales slow, they can adjust their pricing down, like they did on 3DS (which succeeded) and didn't do with WiiU (which did not succeed.) Why would you lower your prices if people are buying the quantity you're selling rapidly at the current price?
In tech most items are sold premium at launch and ratcheted down over time. In gaming, that's inevitable outside Nintendo, but applied still to 3DS.
I've said in other posts, the tech in the console isn't cheap. Including R&D, distribution, and marketing expenses I'm guessing they are selling at a loss on the console package, therefore subsidizing it. But they're using inflated accessories prices to close that gap. The console itself is certainly not overpriced at the moment. It's not cheap, but it's almost certainly a lost.
Backlash to accessory prices is justified, though I don't suspect that's their intended long-term pricing for accessories. Just early gouging to close the loss gap on the console. Not consumer friendly, so some backlash from that might be a blunder.
The remaining argument comparing tech hardware to Netflix and subsidized hardware even less consumer friendly. There are no free rides. If someone is subsidizing your hardware, such as cell carriers, it's because you're already giving them more value than the product they're subsidizing anyway. And it's unfair to compare it to "subsidized" XBox and PS, where their launch prices were %25 higher than Switch to begin with and their reduced prices after sales stabilized are par.
Software pricing seems to be in the $40-60 range, placing software at the high end par with competitors, and certainly a requirement to bring any major 3rd party onboard, and at the low end priced the same as the 3DS which isn't exactly suffering a price perception problem. Certain individual games are priced horribly such as 1, 2, Switch, but that harms the game, not the console.
If the Switch hardware can not support a price that, for the hardware, is a reasonable price, and lower than competitors, then the argument comes down to the idea that the Nintendo brand is now seen as a brand that makes cheap novelty toys and not real tech items, or that the Switch is just not a desirable tech item, which are two very different arguments than one of price.
@Priceless_Spork It's $50 more than 3DS launch which didn't sell that well, so you're probably right in thinking so. On the other hand back then most people didn't carry $800 phones in their pants. The idea of value for that might have changed since then.
@LegendOfPokemon $200 for a Switch where the Wii U wasn't never drop that low or 3do being that same price? Nintendo will never be making money with that price.
@Tsusasi From this point it's like comparing Desktop Computers to Laptops. The more portable system is going to be more expensive, less powerful, with less memory space (and more expensive to improve these specs) to include the more energy efficient and smaller tech. Not exactly a fair comparison if trying to match or make comparable specs.
The question now is, how much is the portable factor worth? That can't be given a definitive $ value, so it's up to consumers to vote with their wallets.
That said, your statements make it sound like Nintendo Switch will be $700 out the gate (or that that is the price needed to get a 'good' value with it), and I disagree with that. You don't need comparable levels of memory, especially not at launch. Maybe a year or three from now, in which time memory will likely have gotten a fair deal cheaper. You can make do with Switch + Breath of the wild for $360, and that's a decent starting price for a new console and great game, and can get a fair amount of fun from that. Or if two players and ARMS, $420, which is more expensive and I agree that some peripherals could stand to be cheaper, but again that's 52~60% of your claimed $700, with the only difference being that you're buying uber pricey memory which you wouldn't even be able to use as there's not that many Switch games out to warrant that level of memory usage.
Summary, your scenario isn't feasible to the average gamer, who'd pay closer to around $360, $420, or $480 (pre-tax) as opposed to $700. If it's too pricey or the portability has less value to you, could always wait for a bundle or a price drop.
The issue i see is that people see the Switch as an underpowered, overpriced console, rather than an adequately priced, overpowered handheld.
Adequately priced ? Over here (Germany), the PS Vita still costs 300€. With a 32GB memory card (not included, mandatory) which also costs 100€, the switch at launch will be 70€ less.
Basically, for a Vita without games, you get the Switch, one retail game and an eShop card.
I really don't see the price issue here.
The games however...
Lets say that 50 bucks for a game is average and reasonable.
Its neither cheap nor overpriced (compared to the 70-80 bucks on other systems).
And then you have titles like 1 2 Switch. This is not fullprice retail material. This game screams pack in demo.
Or Bomberman. I LOVE that they are bringing a new Super Bomberman after all these years, but the full price tag did put my hype on hold.
It just doesn't feel like full price title and would much better fit into the middle price range (20-30) of digital games.
As for peripherals. That controllers, especially those with an abundance on tech in them, are getting ridiculously pricey is nothing new. So it doesn't shock me that both a set of JoyCons and the new ProController are set around 70 bucks.
That said, its down to build quality.
I, for instance, would never again buy an Xbox controller for that money, since these things have a tendency to break after roughly a year, while Nintendos gadgets are usually built like a brick.
Verdict: Ridiculously expensive, nut nothing new nor Nintendos fault.
@DeltaPeng You clearly don't understand my point (or you're ignoring it) and you're locked into this burn cycle where only your reality and definition of a Nintendo gamer holds any weight, so I honestly have to pass on any more discussion after this. I even built the comparison base on what games you said you'd being buying and playing and extrapolated out from there. Whether you buy it at launch or later, more storage will be needed for most gamers and it's far more expensive than a HDD. And going forward, Nintendo is going to push digital even harder. Many will find they prefer he convenience of digital over physical. Storage will fill quickly.
I really can't see the problem here.
Save $50-$120 more to buy whatever you want. For kids, that may seem like a bunch, but it just means they won't get it at launch. For adults, you looser can wait another month or so, assuming you have a job. In which case you probably shouldn't be spending money on video games anyway.
I think all the pricing has added to the message that this is not the time to buy a switch. Get Zelda on WiiU and wait for the switch to be ready to use after it gets out of Beta.
@rjejr @ThomasBW84 Just following through your conversation now, but I'm just not seeing where $300 can be called a blunder, and especially rjejr's statement that in November that would have been fine but in January it isn't. The value of tech items or perception of them hasn't changed in the past 2 months, and nobody sets a new product price based on if it's the Holidays or not. Accessories aside, that's a different peice of the conversation, but on the console itself, $300 is almost certainly below cost for this kit. The only thing that changed since November is internet fans kept hearing $250, 250 from a bunch of news sites repeating what rumor mongers were saying. If that set internet fan expectations poorly for avid readers, that's not Nintendo's fault, and I doubt that stigma reaches the bulk of their market which lies beyond internet forums and rumor sites.
@BiasedSonyFan
Excellent breakdown! Though I tire of hearing, relating to Nintendo, the "casual gaming market" and the "tablet/phone market" as potential Nintendo markets. Truly "casual gaming" is inherently the tablet/phone market. Anyone dropping $200+ on a console isn't very casual about it. They may not be rage-filled angsty teenage 1337 gamerz, but they're not exactly casual either. That's the one place Nintendo pricing, such as 1,2,Switch falls out of favor with their own market. In the Wii/DS era that crowd DID buy Nintendo products because they did not yet have phones/tablets. But now that phones/tablets are commodities, that group really doesn't have an interest in Nintedo, which is part of their current conundrum. They're not fit for the AAA Western gaming market, and their old "casual" market truly no longer exists as a realistic potential customer for dedicated hardware. It does box them into a corner where they're clearly trying to court more AAA Western gamers with the Switch as the "second console market" to close that gap. While not trying to compete directly with PS/XB. It's awkward in some spots.
@Einherjar Spot on on many fronts. Especially the idea that "it's expensive for an under-powered console v.s. appropriate for an overpowered handheld." I very strongly suspect it's ONLY the avid Western internet oriented gamers (trapped in the social echo chamber) that see it as an "underpowered console." The rest of the public has no pre-set notion of what a console should be, and the mobility will be a feature for many. "Gamerz" see it as something to sit forever in its dock doing what a PS4 does, but doing it less well and for the same price. Joe public that's not already well vested (or envious of) PS and XBox will look and say "ooohh THAT video game player is portable! I can't believe it's the same price as those VCR-ones! Pffft, Sony's as antiquated as their TVs..."
Also right there with you on XBox. I love the ergonomics. Best ergonomic controller I've ever owned. But they're built so bad. The plastic creaks after a month, the sticks start squeaking in 6 months, and they stop tracking in a year. Granted I lost a Gamepad stick but that was after some severe Bayonetta and Splatoon abuse...
@NEStalgia The irony is see in all of this:
What are the most heavily critiqued things about both, the PS4 and Xbone ? "They can't even run in 1080p ! They can't even render 60 FPS ! Why are they now going for 4k when they cant even get a stable framerate" etc.
Here you have a system that does exactly that: Improve resolution and framerate and...its wrong, because it doesn't have "teh shiny grafx" on top of it all for a price less than 300 bucks, portable, home console plus cheap but fully featured peripherals...
You could argue that its the usual Nintendo stigma of "No matter what they do, it will be wrong".
I, too, think its not the best idea to fall that far behind in tech...then again, they don't, not on a handheld level. There currently is no competition on that market that can match that power and fidelity. The docking station should be treated as a gloryfied TV-Out (You know, like the PSP once had).
Nintendo does not compete against the PS4, Xbone and their successors, they are simply filling a gap elsewhere. Sony isn't keen on entering the handheld market again, Microsoft never cared to begin with and now Nintendo is filling that "high end handheld" gap, and eliminating one of their recent problems:
"Is it going to be a 3DS or WiiU game ? Where should i buy it on ? Why does the 3DS VC not have those games ? Why are they delaying Smash WiiU for Smash 3DS ?"
Now its one system for both, handheld and TV audiences. No more decisions, no more delays etc.
It IS de facto quite a leap forward, just not on the home console front. And people should stop treating it as such.
@Einherjar Definitely! The "no matter what Nintendo does is wrong" concept is in full force. I think part of that perception issue is because they're always on off-cycles. Since the other two seem to collude for shared releases (or spy on each other constantly to make sure one doesn't do something the other doesn't) Nintendo launches on off-years more times than not. The good is they do their own thing, intend to do their own thing, and don't intend to compete directly with the other two. The bad is, people familiar with the other two end up comparing it to whatever rumored or known future hardware the other company will have is, and comparing the pricing to the several years past prior launch. With this one Nintendo made sure to do something entirely different than the other two, and they're still being compared. I really doubt Nintendo sees Sony/Microsoft as their primary comeptition, and the customers of those two as their primary market. Inside Nintendo I'm pretty sure they see their competitors as Apple, Google, Parker Brothers (Mattel), and various other consumer entertainment providers and mobile tech providers more than the PC twins. Everyone seems to forget that Japan is Nintendo's primary market. XBox has a worse perception in Japan than WiiU does in the UK. Why would they try to compete for that? And Sony's audience is almost as loyal as Nintendo's, no point trying to siphon their customers.
I'd love for NL to have an article parsing social perception in Japan. Through Western eyes, particularly from "gamerz" "I don't care about mobile it's just a docked console and it's underpowered", they seem to miss the fact that there's already two consoles aimed at them. Nobody's going to sell a third, even Valve spun in circles trying, this is a console for everyone that ISN'T in that group, or wants this in ADDITION to that.
Messaging, as always, is probably the real blunder from Nintendo here. I wince in agony every time I hear them say "it's a home console that you can take with you", "the new home conosole from Nintendo" - it's Nintendo itself that's launching half the confusion by vocally trying to insist it's not a handheld but a console, when your statements are spot on, as a handheld it's a bleeding edge powerhouse, as a console it's underpowered. They're highlighting it for the use case it's least impressive with.
But that's their dilemma, not truly a blunder. They're exiting the home console market officially with the Switch, but they don't want to admit publically (and to investors) they're exiting the home console market. They rightly fear investor perception that their market potential is devalued with the exit from a large market segment. So they do all they can do, try to spin that it really IS a home console rather than a portable to not risk that image, even if it creates a consumer perception problem they'll have to backpedal from later. There's also the almost certain liklihood that in a few years a Switch Mini or Switch Go will come out in a smaller screened pocketable format that will still be a Switch on the inside, but be more portable as a true handheld. They probably don't want to muddy the waters before that happens. But they're painted into a fairly confusing dilemma. They have to run the business like it's a Zelda puzzle. Slide this box here, to pull that switch there, to open the door on that end, to be able to jump across the top to the exit over there. They can't stay in home coonsoles, but have to pretend they haven't left home consoles, while promoting their domination of the handhelds space and pretending it's not really a handheld, while trying to sell to Western AAAs they lost, and still catering to what the Japan market wants, while selling that as what everyone once. They have no choice but to be all things to all people right now. They painted themselves in that corner with their successful but short sighted Wii/DS era, but in reality they've been out of the home console market since the end of GameCube. Wii was not a home console. It was an "other" box for a different market, but it very clearly left the "gaming console" market behind in favor of seeking greener pastures and did not try to be one (short of a few bones thrown at fans.) WiiU realized that error and tried to recapture the gamer market, but after 7 years out of touch with that market, the result was difficult to watch. It ended up being a console for the remaining GCN/N64 fans, and a good one at that, but appealed little to anyone outside that group. WiiU was kind of GCN2, as though it came right after and there was no Wii. A good console on its own, but out of step with much of the market. Switch abandons the home console aspect entirely (though they keep saying that's what it is) and instead makes the case that we no longer NEED consoles at all, tech has caught up that your handheld can do most of what the console can anyway.
And that's a very good argument. And an accurate argument. I just hope Nintendo starts to realize what their own argument is soon enough and stops presenting it in such a derpy way. The hardware's a big win. But they could learn a lot from Apple (much as I dislike Apple) on how to present your intended use case.
@NEStalgia I, too, have been skeptical about Nintendos "Low Key" approach for one simple reason:
Games are becoming ridiculously expensive to make. So multiple versions for vastly different systems are pretty much out of the picture by now.
Having a low tech system would mean that ports wont be coming to a Nintendo system.
On the other hand, there is no handheld competition, and the 3DS has been very lively throughout. On paper, this means: Lower production costs, double the audience (handheld and home) less limitations (Filesize on handhelds, Switch Cards seem to be pretty big and flash memory tech is expanding quicker than optical media, therefore technically open ended file sizes).
Bottom line: The support seems to be there (if that stays that way is another can of worms).
So even on dev sides, there seems to be interest in low tech, handheld gaming, which should lead to a more or less steady stream of software this time.
And, as you said, brand loyalty plays a big role as well.
I mean, objectively, look at the PS4. During most of its time, the system was a barren wasteland. The exclusive software was mediocre, the library was filled with PS3 remakes and still, the system sold like crazy.
Directly competing with Sony is a suicide mission. And Microsoft got to taste that thrice in a row now.
Nintendo stopped competing with both the moment they released the Wii. A console, technically stuck in the PS2 / Xbox Era, while competitors took it one step further.
Same with the WiiU. To catch up, Nintendo would have had to skip a Gen, which they didn't.
Now, they stuck with that tech again and are now two Gens behind (again, purely tech wise).
To still think that they are trying to compete on that market is ridiculous. The WiiU was proof that Nintendo lost on that sector, while the 3DS stood tall against the Vita.
It was proof that Nintendos strengths lay in the handheld sector and that catching up to consoles two gens ahead would be impossible, especially after the WiiUs financial disaster.
You could say that the Switch is some sort of safety net after this. Not overstating with tech (keeping production costs low), playing out their strengths on the handheld sector while not entirely alienating home console players.
And if you look at Japan, handhelds are where its at. There is a reason games like Monster Hunter (and several others) all came to handhelds, even though they would have worked WAY better on consoles.
That Nintendos marketing department is one of the worst in the business is nothing new sadly.
And it almost seems that two separate teams are working on one promo piece.
The highlights are always "pick your game up and take it with you" or "true multiplayer on the go" and yet, as you pointed out, they are marketing it as a console...
"The 3DS is here to stay" shuns away people who think its a handheld. The lack of power shuns away those who thought its a home console.
Nintendo messed up big time on that end in my opinion.
A clear message, that its a cold cut for the WiiU, but a graceful end for the 3DS would have been much more elegant.
"If you just adopted a N3DS, you will still get your millage out of it, but Switch is where it will be from now on".
Funnel your ENTIRE audience to that device, hit it big time, support it till your fingers bleed, make money off of it and then join the game as a competitor again next round.
@Einherjar The downside of the "portable first" idea is of course, handhelds aren't very popular in the west. On the other hand, if you're a monopoly, it doesn't need to be popular compared to everything else to be a big success, either. Nintendo has this weird position as the underdog who happens to be a domineering monopoly.
LOL, people talk about Nintendo fans being willing to justify anything Nintendo does, but that kind of zealotry pales in comparison to the abuse Sony fans are willing to put up with (and thank them for it!) I got my PS4 launch day....and then...nothing. Even the WiiU was played non-stop for the first year. Not so much for PS4. That was just pathetic. Unending third party games that were coming to PS3 anyway. And somehow Sony is the "best" - mostly proving two things. Sony fans are loyal, to a point, because they know sooner or later Sony will deliver a worthwhile experience (it took Sony over 2 years to deliver the Standby feature that was promised 6 months before launch...) and most importantly Sony fans buy Sony not just because of the games but simply because they believe they're buying superior hardware. PS4, while a nice system, is fairly crummy hardware as an upgrade from PS3...but people believe the marketing numbers and "more teraflops" sells. BUT it only sells to a particular audience. And Sony has that audience locked up. No use vying for them. (Until Scorpio of course, but Nintendo would be sunk making a super powerhouse console. Frankly, XBox may be sunk if they do what the marking wants to pretend they're doing.)
I still think the Wii is the most disastrous misstep they could have taken. Financial success aside, the long term effect has been catastrophic for them. They jumped to the wrong conclusions from the N64. Nintendo always develops hardware from the time the previous gen releases. GCN was in development from the time of N64 launch, so it was built assuming that would succeed. Wii was built from the time of GCN launch, taking the lessons of N64 and early GCN to believe that they'd lost the console market (rather than realize why they struggled at that time.) The result was the Wii, to capture an all new market. Which they did. But it turned out not to be a sustainable market. Iwata's vaunted blue ocean strategy was a lake in a desert. And as you say, they couldn't recover after missing a whole generation. (the longest gen around.) But realistically they really haven't been in the home console market since GCN. They tried with WiiU, but tried with all the wrong directions.
MOSTLY though I think what looks like odd missteps here with WiiU and maybe Switch isn't really a misstep. They're bound, almost completely to Japan. And Japan has such wildly different gaming habits, now, than the west, they've been trying to make consoles that will make Japan want to buy a console, and it still hasn't been working. They're happy with 3DS. Switch is kind of an on-paper theory console. On paper it solves every single problem Nintendo has. The two markets, leveraging their handheld dominance, sidestepping their irrelevance in home consoles....on paper, it's perfect. Convincing westerners they need an expensive dedicated gaming box, but it doesn't have to be tremendously powerful, and you have to pay more for mobility even if you won't use it is still a huuuge hurdle though. I suspect in Japan this thing will be worshipped. And I suspect, ultimately, that's all Nintendo cares about. It's a predictable market for them. The harder sell, here, may make it a very niche console, but no more niche than 3DS which is "healthy. " The best case is they can bring "gamers" on board as a second console for mobility that would have felt 3DS was too kiddy, in addition to the existing handheld base. Sure, it shrinks their market from two consoles, but it also shrinks their expenses....expanding their handheld market somewhat and dropping their console costs internally might be more profitable (and certainly more affordable for us consumers that tend to buy both! )
Nintendo's overarching problem is they have a long series of blunders in the past. And every time they try to move forward they have this legacy problem of trying to patch the backup of past problems. PS3, PS4 co-existed with new content for PS3, yet it didn't canibalize PS4. 3DS somehow manages to. But they don't want to ignore their handheld users because that's all they have, and they're utterly terrified to lose the budget/kids base that fueled the 3DS in the west. The translation on 3DS is "3DS is the kids choice for games, so we need to keep it, as we know they won't be getting Switches yet."
@NEStalgia I think the "Underdog monopoly" describes their position pretty good. They scratch an itch nobody is really aware of. Its just..."different".
"I got my PS4 launch day....and then...nothing. Even the WiiU was played non-stop for the first year."
Almost exactly the same here, just that i didn't get mine on launch day and still only had the niche titles it got it for (Koei's Warriors series).
And i would actually agree that, no matter how bad a PlayStation's lineup is, sooner or later it WILL deliver at least something worthwhile. Although with the PS4 and its price, its still hardly justifiable.
That Nintendo is hard-locked to Japan can also be seen with the 3DS. Many of its features, like street pass are borderline useless on many western territories because we simply lack the population density.
Should the Switch sell like the 3DS in western regions, its already a major step up from the WiiU. And this time around, i don't think the system will be sold at a loss, so its much more viable to keep around than the WiiU even with not quite overwhelming sales.
The development of Smash Bros 4 showed that the two platform model isn't paying off for them if they want to support both at the same time. Development was severely delayed, the workforce was worn down to the breaking point and many people became picky what version to get.
Not having to focus on two platforms while still delivering the same experience to two crowds is a major improvement, both in development time and cost.
Yup, Nintendos image is pretty torn up at this point. Absolutely agree that the 3DS and WiiU had a parasitic relationship with each other, though i wouldn't want to put my finger on which system leeched off of which.
Another major improvement in terms of PR would be to get their head out of their butt and listen to user feedback.
Their biggest issues during 2016 have been localisation hands down. Plenty of censorship, unusual amounts of regional changes, not realizing the potential of their IPs (Do i really need to mention Metroid and F-Zero here ?), butchering follow ups to running IPs (An Animal Crossing Mario Party when Mario Party was run dry as a dessert and a follow up to Paper Mario Sticker Star, the most ill-received outing of the series), not fulfilling customer demands for a more streamlined account system for safety reasons and so on and so forth.
The list of things Nintendo messed up royally by simply not listening to feedback is pretty long. And much of it isn't even entitled whining but pretty basic stuff.
Take the censorship for instance. I simply LOVE their new approach to parental control. Hand down one of the best innovations on that sector (And yes, i do find it extremely important). Why not regulate it that way ? A parent can switch "Kids friendly mode" on and off from their phone, and ONLY from their phone. That way, you'd still keep the kind friendly image but also don't alienate other customers.
Nintendo likes to forget that most of their audience matured with them and, lo and behold, wants to be treated like adults.
And taking the "Japanese quirkiness" out of quirky Japanese games is not the best idea, if that attracts your main audience...
Bottom line: Much to improve on the sidelines, fingers crossed.
Someone estimates the price to be £200 with no hard evidence to back it up, yet everyone believes it and get their hopes up anyway... then when the price turns out to be £280 they get angry at Nintendo, even though a couple of months earlier they would have been happy with anything under £300.
Seems like another case of people stupidly getting carried away with rumours to me.
@Einherjar The idea of being locked to Japan is a double edged katana. On one hand it's their central problem. Most of the decisions that come out of Nintendo are rooted in "this is what Japan wants" and the "oddness" of Japanese interests and perceptions of tech make everything Nintendo seem completely out of step with the world. On the other hand it's that oddness that makes Nintendo desirable to begin with. They certainly wouldn't win anyone over with superior technology and hardware design, and we don't need yet another studio making the same kinds of games as everyone else. How to balance the need for making a Japanese console for Japan along with what everyone else in the world expects, while not losing everything that makes Nintendo...Nintendo has got to be the worst balancing act possible in this business. And there's no question that the need to "be Japanese" is 90% of why everything Nintendo does is met with question marks on any English language website. It doesn't make sense here, but makes sense there, not just the hardware designs or software catalog, but how they announce things, and the spin they give it.
On paper, NoA, NoE etc. were supposed to exist explicitly to solve that problem, but Japanese companies being Japanese companies, tend to assume their subdivisions are incompitent and therefore need only follow exacting orders from HQ (despite that HQ's utter lack of understanding of that market were the reasons for founding the satellites to begin with.) It's not just gaming....working with ANY Japanese company goes like that. Panasonic, Nikon, Hitachi, it's always the same except the VERY westernized firms like Sony and Toyota.
It's almost like you can't watch the Switch release and say "how is this announcement as a console announcement." You have to say "how is this announcement as a Japanese corporate product announcement" because without that filter it looks worse than it is. So much we see as weird about Nintendo is actually normal for a company in Japan.
I think the immediate goal is to see it sell like 3DS, but obviously they're cutting off their console market with this, so it, realistically, needs to sell much more than 3DS. When 3DS launched and through it's first few years, they had Wii and DS income, and then early launch WiiU. Now they will have only Switch, and at the start, 3DS. That's a big downgrade in total market share if they don't move a lot more Switches than 3DS's. That's where my biggest reservations come in. The fact that they're starting with 2 mil instead of 15 mil units tells me this time they have their realistic expectations in check. Iwata's early predictions of WiiU selling 20 mil in the first year or two were just absurd and reflected zero market understanding within the company. Nobody but their board room actually thought that was reality.
The point about not supporting two systems, though, more than "it's a home console and handheld 2-in-1" is really not the main purpose of Switch. Not having two separate consoles to support/buy is really the main purpose. Nintendo's two markets weren't independently sustainable anymore, and merging them was essential internally. They just have to sell the idea that this benefits customers. For many customers it doesn't. For some of us that buy both Nintendo handheld/consoles it does. So they sell the "it's a console you can take with you" angle. Which is true. But still feels sloppy from a marketing angle.
Early after launch, 3DS cannibalized WiiU badly. The droughts were due to doubling down on 3DS after it's stumble out of the gates and abandoning WiiU while they bailed out the 3DS. By the time they got back to the WiiU, she'd already sunk rudder first and no amount of bailing would float her again. This also goes back to "who in their right mind launches two consoles within a year and a half of each other??" They launched a new console before they even stablized the launch of the previous one. That was a big blow to WiiU. I still believe that WiiU was an accidental console. I think they were really working on the Switch, but bad communication and mismanagement between the console and handheld hardware divisions along with tech expenses at the time delayed it significantly. Meanwhile HD gaming caught on long before the expected it to (Miyamoto has said this directly) (in fairness to them, they had no way to anticipate a government subsidized and mandated transition to HD demanded by media lobbyists in the US rapidly advancing the timetable for HD adoption, while Sony not only knew in advance as a TV maker, but was one of said lobbyists as a media company. MS was also caught off guard.) As a result, Wii fizzled faster than they expected, they fell behind faster than they expected, and Switch delays (or impossibility at the time) meant they needed a new stop-gap HD console fast. The fact that they shipped the WiiU without even having it's OS in place relegating most of the features to a 1.5GB day 1 firmware patch means they threw that whole thing together practically as they sent it out the door. Remember when it was demoed and it was a tablet like gamepad, flat like an iPad (or, you know, a Switch...) with portable style 3DS circle pads? I think THAT Gamepad was really the original Switch prototype. Then was rapidly converted into a stand alone console sort-of-Switch-like-but-not as they went. The bad presentation the mixed messaging, the general state of confusion, even Miyamoto's comment last week about "WiiU was a necessary step to get to Switch" seems to echo that. I'm thinking the internal conversation was "Wii is fading in sales fast, we need to get the new Switch out soon, how much longer does your team need?" "Well we can't even get the components running right, AMD says the bin we need is still premium, and we can't even get the motion control specs from the home console dept...if we built it now it would cost at least $600, maybe more." "Ok, we need a console now....how long do you need if you take what you have and make it a traditional console and just stream the video to the display rather than putting the console inside the controller?" "Might be able to turn it around in 10-15 months." They could have salvaged that off the back of the Wii brand, but the final nail was them abandoning it to float the 3DS's faltered launch. You can save one struggling console. You can't save two at once. No other company has ever even tried.
AFTER that, WiiU was cannibalizing 3DS. It wasn't a very viable system, but they had to float it as viable. 3DS was their real console, WiiU just got some crumbs thrown at it, but what it got was good, and there's clearly been a push to then monetize that content on their real platform (that couldn't really run it.) Weird era. Some of the very best Nintendo games have come out in this time, but all in such a lackluster way.
@Snader thats better than nothing mate! Still for the biggest franchise in gaming history expectations were higher.
@Einherjar Broke up my response so it's a little bit less of a text wall. I'll keep the semi-ot part in this half.
Regarding the localization issues, I think people made too big a deal out of most of it, or at least viewed it from the wrong angle (remember that Japan filter? )
Sure online net fans watching what is in the Japanese version monitor the checklist of localization differences, but that's such a small niche of the ultra-hardcore Nintendo fans. The broader market where they make most of their money doesn't even know there ARE differences between versions. It affected nerdrage here, but I don't think it affected them in any measurable business sense. Moreover despite the range, there's reasonable reasons for some of it too. TMS particularly, is such a very Japanese game, and aside from anything else, much of the changed content doesn't even make sense in the west without familiarity to the content (at least they spent money to localize something so Japanese, and made it so it made sense enough to pass off to a western audience, unlike Capcom and Great Ace Atty. "Oh it's just too Japanese so westerners can't understand it, we won't release it.") FE censoring was unnoticable unless you were specifically looking for Japan features you didn't get. I do find its removal silly considering the entirety of Fates is pretty fan service-y even without it. But I think the big thing for Nintendo is the ESRB & European equivalent. They have a set family image, and they hold that as an important brand asset. Thus they try to get the majority of their games and franchises associated with T-or-under ratings (using US ESRB.) They're likely to modify content they feel will net them an M rating. Heck it was kind of a company negative when Twilight Princess was rated T. They certainly didn't intend to go for that rating for Zelda. So I think fans that are used to certain content get upset that it's not there without considering the possibility of an M or T rating on a game that Nintendo is explicitly targeting an E or T rating. That rating is much more a priority than fan complaints overall.
The AC board game...that was all out tone deafness like the 1, 2, Switch presentation leading the show. Yeah...can't overstate the blunder there. Color Splash is actually a fantastic game BUT I do hate the card/sticker battle system, and have no idea why they stuck to that after it was so poorly received. "No, our idea is right, the PLAYERS are wrong!" I expect that from EA, not Nintendo. I don't need Paper Mario to be a full RPG, their reasoning of not having 2 RPG series is sound (especially in light of knowledge that with Switch, M&L and PM would be on the same hardware.) but the sticker/card thing is just filled with unsolvable problems. They were stubborn there.
That said, I'm pretty sure Nintendo listens very much to fan feedback. Fan feedback from Japanese fans. Western fans are just wrong and don't understand (can't they just please understand?)
The comments about Nintendo forgetting their audience is interesting though. Who IS Nintendo's audience, and Switches? Their own uncertainty of that is part of their confusion. And different people in Nintendo believe different things. Miyamoto thinks it's kids. He, of course, isn't really wrong, after all we were those kids and he hooked us on his games for life...if they want customers for life after we all die off, they need to start addicting current kids the same way they hooked us. If we didn't get hooked as kids we wouldn't be buying Switch and discussing it for months (years) before launch on fan sites as adults. So he does still need to target the current kids the same as he targeted us. Others in the company believe it's the original fans, us, who they need to treat to nostalgia and adult experiences. But, then, in Japan, adult entertainment (I mean entertainment for adults, not adult...anyway...), seems to always be child-like as a norm. Yet others in the company think it's their vast new audience acquired during the Wii/DS era that's almost exclusive of the other two. It's average people who are not tech literate mostly, who like simple activities and cheap amusements. Thus we get the 1, 2, Switch trailer leading the entire console presentation. Why not Nintendogs 3 while they're at it? That could be their lead-in to an announcement of Dark Souls coming to Switch....
Part of the problem is NONE of these groups are their audience. The Wii group moved on long ago. It's the fad crowd. They did it because everybody was doing it, then moved on. The older gamers largely moved to Sony back when they were teens (or PC) and stayed there. The kids are fixated on $.99 games on tablets.
Meaning their market isn't an actual specified market, but an attempt at shaving off the various niches from the ends of ALL of the above markets. Which means they have to spread their product and messaging across an extremely broad base to appeal to almost polar opposite demographics at the same time. Which will only lead to continued confused messaging. All while trying not to lose the core fans which currently sustain their day to day operations.
@NEStalgia "little bit less of a text wall"...
We...might need to talk about your definition of that again
The balance between "being Japanese" and "targeting the western market" has broken many developers backs. Prime example: Capcom.
Lost Planet: Dead after westernized part 3
Resident Evil: Tore the fanbase apart after going for a more western style shooter experience
Devil May Cry: Laughing stock of the core fanbase after western dev takes over.
Many Japanese devs really seem to forget that its their "uniqueness" that is making them appealing and ultimately stick out of the brown, focus group tested western mass.
So in a way, you could argue that keeping that "we do our own thing" mentality can turn out to be a good thing. It certainly is a double edged sword indeed.
In regards to cutting out the console market:
Technically, achieving a similar install base and sales as the 3DS is "enough" for now.
Think of it. The WiiU actively lost them money and didn't make it back through software sales due to the low install base.
Cutting that out ironically increases income.
The 3DS still has afterglow and bleeds into sales, while the Switch "could" make a profit. Overall, not a big loss but not a gold mine two well running systems could be.
I say the short term goal is to make back what the WiiU lost, which should be easily achieved if nothing majorly fails.
The WiiU being an "accidental console" could actually be true, seeing how close the core concept is to the Switch. Many even thought that the WiiU gamepad would be its own entity and not just a streaming device. Pretty much a "Switch prototype" so to speak. Yeah, i'd buy that story.
Well, i respectfully disagree on the whole censorship part, but lets not open up that can of worms again, although i do understand your angle.
As for Color Splash: Exactly my issue with it.
I get the "Back to classic Mario roots" setting. As dull as it may be, it can work out. My issue was (having only played Sticker Star): There was absolutely no gameplay. None. Nothing you did (especially combat) had any consequence in the long run.
And frankly, that coming from "Gameplay and fun first, everything else second" Nintendo felt really really shallow.
To follow that up with another round of nothing AND making it the WiiUs swansong was, at least in my opinion, terrible but very telling.
It is true that Nintendos audience especially is very fluctuating.
But there is no denying that there is a core demographic that has been ignored for quite some time.
There is a reason why people ask for a new Metroid or F-Zero at every opportunity they get.
Its the fine line of "Brand loyal core gamers of old" who are both not turned off by Nintendos rather kids friendly IPs but also relish their more demanding series'.
You know, the folks the "Raspberry Pi in NES clothing" was marketed at.
These folks are out there, but are being shunned away by "Yet another Mario Party".
Its those IPs that keep Nintendos old systems relevant even today and delivering this "core experience" from time to time could have made newer system more attractive as well to an audience here to stay and that doesnt fluctuate from generation to generation.
@Einherjar haha, I already tripped the spam filter once....
Yeah, the era of "westernizing" Japanese IPs was really gutting through the whole Japanese gaming industry. Lost a lot of good devs and franchises in that time. Just as westerners will never understand, say, the TRPG genre very well, Japanese devs will never understand the Hollywood-clone genre very well. Everything is just based on different starting points, and painting it brown won't make it Hollywood. (The aping of film is just gross in much of the gaming scene now that even film is pretty much played out and irrelevant.)
Technically WiiU turned a very modest profit due to the attach rate of software to the limited install base. However, in terms of operating expenses, yeah, at worst it can really be considered break-even or a net loss. I can see how dropping it can be a net gain...but, we can't forget the shrinking effect on their market presence and retail footprint with less hardware around (ok, WiiU had minimal footprint most places, so I guess that's not so bad....)
But don't forget the radical scaling down. From the time the WiiU launched, they had the WiiU and 3DS struggling, but still had the DS's mammoth profit engine running behind the scenes. That's been gone for a while, leaving them with only the struggling pair. Mario Run certainly isn't churning profits. Pokemon is, but I hope they don't push that too hard and burn it out Guitar Hero style.
Censorship: No matter the opinions of it's good, bad or indifference, I'm pretty sure the business justifications for it are the fixation on the actual rating, and a determination that the rating affects their reach to their targeted market on a game. Not saying a given game should or shouldn't be M rated, but I can at least respect the decisions if they're all in service of a corporate policy to achieve a particular target rating from an external board. I don't think it would have killed them to make Fates, for example M rated, but if their people ran the numbers and demos and determined "we need to reach x numbers within a market between ages y and z" it's an understandable target.
Color Splash. It's love hate. Mostly love though. Sticker Star was an abomination on so many fronts. Color Splash, if you haven't played it, I can say the level design is far more interesting and far more imaginative and the dialog is very complete and entertaining. There are many toads, but toads that are very much individuals with their own personalities (that could easily have been non-toad characters.) Use of the world, running stories/characters within a chapter, etc....the actual world and level setup is way, way better than Sticker Star and reaches a sort of balance between it and the RPG feel. The need to return to old places often and character changes etc comes from the RPG side. It's nicely put together. "stages" can be seen more as "locations" in an RPG sense (you might be revisiting characters there long after you finished the level for some item you need etc.) It's not fair to compare it to the gutted out travesty that was Sticker Star, it's a complete presentation. BUT that horrendous battle system.... so often battles just feel padded out and unfair. I have my full 99 card stack, but have no cards to use for a given battle. But really it's the reprise of the Thing stickers/cards that still breaks the game. They "fixed" it by having a toad tell you what Thing you need next, which in itself shows why the Things are broken. Just make it so I don't lose them if I try them, make it have "no effect" and it will work so much better. It's actually a very very good game, and really fits the personality of the WiiU. But it did fail to learn some important lessons I wish I had.
You're right about the ignored core, though. Maybe BotW is a showcase that they're changing that. I think fan perception gets bent a little by the events caused by WiiU's failure though. I strongly suspect Metroid was supposed to be on WiiU, and even more, I suspect it was supposed to launch along side Federation Force. A multiplayer game for the handheld as a side story to the real game on the console. But with the faltering of the WiiU and the internal decisions to quietly move it all to Switch, er, "NX", they pulled it (and I'm strongly betting it'll make an appearance at least as an announcement by year's end.) That made FF look twice as bad, and made that core group feel their desired games were simply not happening.
I watched that 2015 E3 fully expecting Metroid. The team, even Miyamoto had left hints that it was a thing prior. And then...nothing, just FF. It feels like they had it, and pulled it.
Though, personally I still hope for 2D Metroid and Zelda. Everyone loves Prime, but to me Metroid is always best 2D! 3DS was great in not forgetting the past genres. I hope Switch follows through on that idea.
I also still believe the end of the WiiU would have been different had Iwata still been alive. It seems like there were several forces in Nintendo pulling in different directions, and with Iwata and his cult of personality "out of the way" I think the other forces wasted no time in stopping his vision for the WiiU's future and replacing it with their own.
@CaPPa I would like to know how you got that for $14. Hope you bought the right kind, because everywhere I look, 64 gb cards are basically 3x or more that price.
@CaPPa Nm, confused myself there for a sec. My gripe is this, on ps4 and xbox, you get 500 gig hdd's, and for many people that isn't enough. The goal is to not have to redownload games over and over and over again. Zelda alone is 13 gb big, and Nintendo is pretty good about not going insane with file sizes. When Battlefield, CoD, and other games from developers who don't hold back, show up, you will learn that 64gb is nothing, and you will get frustrated trying to juggle which games to delete. You have to take into account that not everybody has great internet connection, so a 15+ gb download is a very annoying prospect to think you may have to do it multiple times.
@NEStalgia Sorry for the slightly late reply.
Regarding their footprint: Keep in mind that "Ninetndo exiting to console market / abandoning their 2 platform model" Is quite a huge happening.
Its basically the first time since 1989 (Release of the GameBoy) that they aren't set up with two active platforms at the same time (Let's face it, the 3DS is running on half speed at the moment)
So the smaller footprint could very well be set off by said happeing, causing enough word of mouth PR on the sidelines.
Plus, i reckon that there are quite a lot of people out there who were put off by the notion of having to decide which platform to get and basically gambling on which one will be the more successful one which are now back on board. We have to wait and see. But i have my doubts that this will be a huge negative impact overall.
It cuts a loss and focuses on their strengths. On paper, a really good move.
Color Splash is still a game i will avoid. For me, its simply not worth the money since i know in advance that there will be nothing for me to enjoy. Im the "mechanics" guy, and if those aren't fun, i'll pass, no matter how good the rest of the game might be.
Its like a Burger. It can be the best gosh darn Burger in the world, but if you despise pickles and there in there, the whole thing is spoiled.
Breath of the Wild definitely seems to target the more "grown up" RPG players out there. Its venture into Open World territory shows that they tried to capture the popularity of Bethesda's flagship titles, the Witcher etc.
Im personally still skeptical simply because im pretty burned out when it comes to open world games, and titles like MGSV showed that it can even ruin a game if it can't support an open world with more than chores, but i'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
As for Metroid...do we still not know what Retro is working on ?
I lost track of that completely, but if there still is no word out on it, it might be a good sign that the project was scrapped and moved to the Switch. Lets hope for the best.
If you ask me, axing the WiiU abruptly was, as harsh as it may sound, a good decision. I can't recall that a console has even been abandoned AND stopped production before the successor was out before, so i assume that everyone over at Nintendo was pretty glad to get rid of that thing sooner rather than later.
And as much fun as i had with it, good riddance.
It was a lead weight on a runners leg. With it out of the way, maybe we can expect more creative freedom from Nintendo instead of playing it super safe for the profit (Again, AC-Mario Party, Colo Splash and Co. Replicas of existing format for the sake of not having to put effort into something original).
With that dagger out of their backs, work should continue a little easier. Lets just hope it pays off for consumers as well.
@Einherjar NP, I have a habit of forgetting replies for weeks...
Single platform: That's a transition that must be terrifying at Nintendo. Having a portfolio of two products is a good safety net. One falters, rely on the other. They've been doing that forever. Re-positioning the company to sink or swim based on, ultimately, the success of a single SKU is as high risk as you can get. OTOH, the costs of supporting both have become so high and manpower intensive that it wasn't really sustainable to run two platforms either. And one can argue they never wanted to run two platforms from the start, tech limitations simply mandated that they did. Still a scary time inside Nintendo I'm sure. They'll need to diversify. I don't think QoL is going to be it Mobile, maybe. Theme parks, movies, merchandising...maybe. They need something to be an alternate form of revenue. They've acknowledge the instability of the entertainment market many times, so they know the risk.
Color Splash: LOL great analogy! I can get that. The mechanics....technically there's nothing really different about the mechanics than with M&L, and I love the M&L series (going back to the RPG origins of Seven Stars) but the limited array of cards/stickers as a method of battle. The situation I find myself in is, cards are too expensive, so when I have good cards (big shoes, mushrooms, enemy cards, POW, etc, I tend to hang onto them and not use them. That ends up leaving me maybe 30 slots by mid-game for actual playable cards. A few shoes, a few spring shoes, a few iron boots, a few line jumps, a few double hammers....uh oh, out of space, I didn't even buy hammers yet! then you get to actual battles and start using 3-5 cards in a battle, and you expend your 30 usable cards in the first 6 battles of the level and spend the rest avoiding the remaining battles.
And yet...some of the levels are the most absolute fun in the world including a surprising retro remix level (no spoilers.) Shame it's wrapped in such an arguably terrible battle system, because the rest of the game is possibly one of the best Nintendo games in many years. IMO the good is good enough to put up with the bad, so long as you keep a walkthrough handy for the pointlessly frustrating parts. IF you're a fan of Nintendo bathing itself in its own tropes.
The best and worst I can say about it is, I really wish the battle system were more fun because I really want to play through it again.
Open World: Yeah, I hear you on being burned out on sandboxes. It's too easy for it to become a simple time suck of errands and chores. I already have that: It's called real life. Xenoblade is the worst kind of chore-world, and MGSV, I did play Zero, just lacked appeal to me even though it should have been cool. I wonder how "adult" the open world genre is or if it's more of a time suck for tweens? And, yet, Zelda, though Aonuma admitted at least some subconcious Skyrim influence, they've really roped me in with saying that it's real inspiration is Zelda 1. I really see that in the design (Aonuma also said that for the first half of development Miyamoto was personally very involved still before moving to more managerial roles) Zelda 1 (and the weird Zelda that was 2, but especially 1) remains the outlier in the franchise where it was literally an open world game, where you get plopped down, told to figure it out, and you wander the entire overworld looking for secrets and dungeons, and can enter most in any order (not if you don't have the raft for some, etc.) It was easy to get in over your head in that game ,and I spent half my time just wandering the overworld setting fire to every bush I found (little arsonist Link....) hoping to find a stairwell. A return to what Zelda was before ALttP set the tone of "progressive order of upgrades to get the next thing" that has been closely followed ever since is pretty exciting. We won't talk about Links Adventure.... That'd be a fun RPG expansion pack for BotW though!
We've received no official word about what Retro is doing. There was a rumor that it was a new IP and not Metroid. But only a rumor. And even if they're working on a new IP, they've been working on "something" since before DKTF released. If they were doing Metroid WiiU that's already been done and archived for a year or two and probably took months to port to Switch at most. Though it's always possible a new Metroid will come from Sakamoto's team instead of Retro. Team Ninja is what made Other M so...."other" not NST. I think it's almost guaranteed that one way or anther there's a Metroid. Prime or not, I don't know. But if nothing else they're in the business of selling their IPs these days, and they need to dust off all the IPs to keep them relevant.
WiiU: It still was a bad faith move for 12M of their core market, so time will tell if it was a good move or not. I don't see them doing that to Switch so it shouldn't be a repeat of 32x, Saturn, Dreamcast, that's for sure. Though I think they still have way more warehouse inventory of WiiU's than they'd like, so ceased production may not mean low inventory for a while. Other consoles deplete the warehouse while still in production They're up to, what 13M sold of the original 15M batch (that they thought they'd sell through in a year....) Good luck selling the other 2M. They have as many WiiU's sitting around as March batch Switches!
I do think the WiiU was inappropriately damaged by events out of its control. Iwata prematurely announcing NX to preemptively fend off speculation about Nintendo exiting hardware while announcing mobile, was wise, but it caused the already negative WiiU buzz to cascade into a tailspin. That led to the awkward E3 cycle where reggie sat down and told us we were in a "transition" year to NX. Then 2 weeks later Iwata died and Nintendo went silent while the company span in circles leaderless and playing power games, and when they finally reappeared tepidly basically said they were ending WiiU for NX which will be announced at E3...but the delays caused by the leaderless period (I presume) pushed NX back to now, and made WiiU look even more dysfunctional than it should have been. I do think, for all his good and bad points, the WiiU was inextricably tied to Iwata's life, and he was the one really acting as it's steward in the company. Think about it, we didn't know but a year before the "transition" E3 is when he first started going downhill and that's when the WiiU really started becoming vaporware, and the moment he was gone the WiiU pretty much ended. I do think if he were healthy during the WiiU's run it may not have been a success, but it would have been managed in a more successful way. His illness became WiiU's illness as well (though he WAS also running Switch behind the scenes as well. This is still an Iwata-era console after all.)
But, yes, WiiU led us to too many cash cows and safe calls. TMS#FE and XBCX, Bayonetta, and Devil's Third being the outliers. Though keep in mind BotW and Odyssey were both really to be WiiU games. As well as the likely Metroid. But the quick cash cows because they were needed were getting old. I do hope they don't abandon 2D platformers though. No company does what Nintendo does for 2D platformers.
@NEStalgia Yup, i think that was the reason Nintendo tried to spread out in seemingly "nonsensical" directions like that: To secure revenue when they might end up with another WiiU on their hands. Like we discussed, the WiiUs neckbreaker simply was the inability to support it and the 3DS at the same time, at the same quality with the limited revenue the WiiU generated (arguably the system whos software was more expensive to create too).
With that backup plan, the money drainer out of the way, a more streamlined business model overall, its now all down to cold, hard PR and delivery, delivery, delivery.
What can't be made up in power compared to the competition (a.e. missing out on ports of the "new and hot" games) must be made up in quality content in, truth be told, larger quantities.
Should be no issue considering they have experience feeding two systems simultaneously.
Color Splash:
I see in it the same issue i saw back in FF VIII:
Consumable attacks simply aren't a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. In FF VIII, you needed you best spells to bolster your stats. Using them got you through the battle at hand easier, but crippled you in the long run.
With Sticker Star (And from what you're saying, Color Splash as well) it was all down to: "Is that a battle worth fighting ? Do i really need to use these attacks or should i keep them for a relevant encounter ?"
If you ask me, a what i like to call "Zelda Item System" (a.e. Every item has its worth, there is no loot fest) with a basic MP system would have gone a long way here.
Award the player with a new Sticker for solving a puzzle and use them with, i don't know, "Glue Points" ?
Its similar to the Badge system, would keep the overall motive and yet, would clean up the micro management tedium.
What i truly miss about the original Paper Mario is the sense of progression. I usually dumped my Level Ups solely into Badge Points so i could play around with the different abilities. Every slot made way for a new synergy of abilities. In Sticker Star, attacks felt obsolete the moment if found a new one of the series. And sure, i could spend hours converting them to more powerful ones on these flower patches...or i could just ignore it, throw them at "trash mobs" and make room for the next badge of stickers i find in the next room.
Nothing about this process was even slightly satisfying and never delivered a sense of progression other than uncovering a new dot on the world map.
And Xenoblade being "the worst kind of chore world" ?
Huh, interesting, it would have been one of my go-to examples for a job well done in that regard
Xenoblade wasn't really "open world" as it was "linear but obscenely huge". And it was the very first game that really triggered that sense of exploration in me, though that's pretty much a personal thing i guess.
It could have done with a more streamlined sub-quest indicator (a bulletin board for instance) but its subquests were so inconsequential, its hardly noticeable if you missed some.
But each location was "handcrafted" or at least not just one lump of terrain with a few hills in between, so there was something to be seen pretty much everywhere.
Then again, like i said, its not truly open world, so the comparison is kinda lacking.
The WiiU sequel however...where do i start ?
Lets just put it that way: Xenoblade Chronicles is without a doubt among my top 3 JRPGs of all time.
Xenoblade Chronicles X ? I didn't even bother to play it long enough to get a mecha in it...
And yes, one of the core reasons was its god awfull open world balancing (Meat Gates are NOT Level Design folks) and its abysmal quest design (No recommended levels, no region indication and being hard locked into completing them is a design flaw that couldn't be more amateurish).
As for Zelda, im one of the very few people who actually got turned off by the notion that Zelda 1 was its inspiration. I loved Zelda for what it has become, not what it was in its first iteration.
It was the philosophy of handing you tools and letting you find out what they opened up that drew me into the series.
Blindly wandering about, trying to find stuff i can do is exactly why i cant stand Open World titles anymore.
So yeah, i was really skeptical about BotW. But like i said, i give it the benefit of the doubt because it DOES look promising.
The early NX reveal sure did a lot of damage. Both to the WiiU (Why should i buy one when the next system is at the doorstep ?) and the companies reputation as a whole for one of the worst information drip-feeding / radio silence acts in the industry.
Lets hope it was worth the gamble at the end.
Good mention of 2D platformers there though, i discussed that with a buddy lately. For a company, whos main claim to fame are superb 2D platformers, releasing a system WITHOUT A FREAKIN D-PAD is one heck of a stupid move...
I truly hope someone over at Nintendo realizes that and sells individual Left JoyCons with a D-Pad instead of buttons.
Lets face it, the JoyCon multiplayer is a neat idea, but a novelty at best for most players.
And yes, id be willing to shell out full price for a JoyCon with a D-Pad. Take notice Nintendo...please...
@Einherjar The one thing I'm afraid Nintendo will still undersetimate going into this is that even though they already learned HD content takes tons more time, money, and manpower, they need to make the jump that they need 3DS levels of content generation, but the cost and time to create each game will be way more than it was on 3DS, as well as for 3rd parties. With WiiU out of the way can they have the staff and time to crank out Switch games in HD at the pace and quantity of 3DS without resorting to Animal Crossing: The Board Game again? The launch window seems reasonable. A big game or two every month or two + third parties. IF they can keep up the momentum, they'll be ok.
Color Splash: Yeah, I'm very much in agreement that consumable attacks are problematic and just not fun. OTOH is there any RPG game that doesn't have consumable attacks disguised in some way? Ok, Xenoblade.... Other than that. Most RPGs have a magic points system. SMT/Persona/TMS has you expending your MP for attacks. Worse MP costing attacks are the ONLY attacks worth using in most battles. Same with BD and FF. FE has fixed space movements AND spell book limitations and weapon breakage (before Fates). Even Pokemon has PP, plus disposable consumable item/moves. Resource management of having only limited attacks is a stable of RPGs. I think it's just about HOW confined sticker star and maybe FF7 can be. 100 cards....that limits how well you can prepare yourself without an easy way to regenerate.
Hmm the Zelda system could have merit, though Zelda (short of II) isn't an RPG. Then again neither is Paper Mario now. Both are adventure, so it could fit. The only problem with Zelda is it leads to a very scripted gameplay. You will use this item in this place in this manner to advance. Thing cards/stickers play that role, but making them consumable defeats the experimentation from Zelda. All other battles are just obstacles to move forward. I do find in the second half of the game that I tend to enjoy battles less as they get larger and more difficult and consume more cards and every time I get caught by ANOTHER battle I think "oh, come ON!" M&L definitely is more satisfying to fight through, I admit. Yet color splash has that vibrant world that, much as I love M&L, PM nails better. Intelligent Systems, you would think, could come up with a much better battle system considering they're the keepers of one of the most complicated RPG battle systems around....
Progression is the one thing with Color Splash that is improved over Sticker Star. Not via the battle system, but via level gimmicks that work. Uncovering a new dot on the map isn't just a new generic level to run in. Most new dots are a unique place, often with unique characters, gimmicks and situations, and getting to locale X tends to change something in the map (or require revisiting a former place.) So most map dots are indeed memorable unique, living places (not all of them are "levels" in any traditional sense). In a sense, the level gimmicks and places are enough sense of progression that having to do battles is annoying purely because it takes you out of that progression through the environment. For all the battle system failings, everything that was wrong with the world itself in Sticker Star was fixed in spades in Color Splash. It just has that darn battle system in the way. Each new dot is a journey to the unexpected (and often absurd) after the first few levels.
Xenoblade: Yeah I really meant the side quests, not the main game when I mentioned the chore world. The side quests "fetch me 50 of these, kill 75 of those" were just tedious, poorly presented, and generally worth ignoring. XBCX, you know, I haven't played it yet. I have it, I downloaded the install files over a year ago. And I never got around to playing it. Fair chance I won't get to it before Switch comes out (preordered XBC2 anyway though ) I've heard so much mixed reports from people about XBCX. Some people really had the time of their lives with that game. Yet all the issues you mentioned here are things that makes me very offput by it since the beginning. The quest thing...eugh.
Zelda: I'm of mixed minds in some ways. My true favorite game of all time was ALttP and the addictive progress in it. (I think ALBW replaced it as my favorite, delivering basically the same game, but modernized and more streamlined) Yet, I can't deny being oddly hooked by the original in its day and the free adventure aspect of discovery got replaced by the checklist of using game logic to determine what you're supposed to do next. I like both. And I suspect it's not as open ended as we tend to think it is. Aonuma's been doing "new zelda" since it's second iteration, Ocaraina, so it would be hard for him NOT to include that kind of logic to it. Technically raft,lantern, hammer, etc...the original wasn't TRULY open ended either. It just made you figure out how to use what you got and what you can do with it vs. guiding you in a narrow path. Even ALttP was more open ended than Ocarina and it's successors that were very very linear, originally, due to N64's limitations. We haven't had a true overworld since ALttP (and ALbW). TP came closest by far, but even that was fairly "go here, now here, now here, and there's only one right way to get there."
NX reveal: Yep....that was...it's hard to blame Nintendo as bad as it was. They couldn't NOT announce NX with the odd and sudden mobile announcement. We know how the press was (and always does) hound Nintendo and twist disaster from every move. Announcing it was a must. And yet, it was guaranteed to devastate WiiU that was already struggling and a "joke." More communication from Nintendo after that, and firm WiiU statements would have gone a long way, instead they stayed quiet. Of course we didn't know then what we know now that Iwata was ultimately in pretty bad shape shortly after that (and thus why he wasn't planning on attending E3, etc.) That was all secret at the time. It makes sense in hindsight, and it wasn't truly their fault, though better communication rather than silence would have gone a long way. But Japanese companies in any industry are known for their silence on anything. (though the awkward "transition" E3 is what really doomed it. And that was a self inflicted wound. They weren't ready. Talking about a "transition to NX" as your lead-in to "hey buy our stuff this year" was just flat out stupid, and presenting it as this decline for an already dead console sure painted that image, yet according to Aonuma the firm cut for BoTW even going to Switch wasn't made until almost a full year AFTER that. Again, though, they were running kind of leaderless...so it's hard to point fingers at what happened too. They handled it all badly, but it's difficult to say they should have handled it better. Apple didn't handle Steve Jobs' death that much better...
LOL, yeah the lack of D-Pad really stunned me on the platformer front. HOWEVER, I also consider that though their claim is "2D platformers" the motion in said modern platformers is really analog. Try playing DKTF with the D-pad. It just doesn't handle well, it's built around the stick. So I don't think the lack of D-Pad is actually a detriment to modern 2D platformers, just VC retro ones. I too would prefer a Joycon with a D-pad, not for platformers, but for menus, actually, I use the d-pad a lot. And the 2 player novelty, I definitely agree. But for platformers, the stick, these days is definitely ideal. Even platformers are better with analog controls.
I might be a bad example though. Even on the NES and SNES I always played Mario, DK, and other platformers with the NES advantage/SNES Adv. pro. Sticks just work for platformers to me. Worth noting the Mario 3 arcade cabinet used a full size stick as well. So did the Metroid cabinet (Yes, those were briefly a thing, and I've played both )
"Take notice Nintendo...please..."
Notice me, Regpai!
@NEStalgia Well, they learned this gen that well made Remake still turn in a reasonable profit, both on 3DS and WiiU (Looking at you, Zelda) so i guess expecting a few of those as gap fillers here and there is reasonable.
Cost effective, easy to make and with the huge added benefit of "First time on the big screen / a handheld !" which is not to be underestimated.
Dare i say a visually touched up Kid Icarus Uprising and the likes ?
Define "consumable attacks" i guess. If you want to be exact, everything with a non-self-regenerative resource pool would fall into that category. Funny thing: THAT was what turned me away from earlier Tales games, before they ditched that in favor of a (in my opinion) much more enjoyable stamina system.
The difference here being:
Does replenishing your resources mean visiting ANY Inn or using ONE type of item or physically backtracking to a specific location to farm said resource ?
I take the former over the latter any day of the week really...
My best guess why they kept the Sticker Star groundwork:
It simply wasn't worth it anymore. The WiiU was dead in the water and as beloved as Paper Mario is, you would need a phenomenal game to just reach expectations set by the first two titles. And doing that for a dying system...just take what you have, throw the towel and call it a day.
Xenoblade Chronicles X:
It was one of the biggest disappointments in my gaming career. Keep in mind though: personal opinion
It was the sequel to one of my favorite games, it had freakin mechas in it for christs sake !
And yet, not only did i not warm up to it, i downright hated playing it.
Without spoiling too much:
It focuses on its open world and its hex based map. These tiles may have certain "goals" attached to them. Either something hidden, or one of these resource nodes and what not.
The problem was: The balancing was all over the place. In one hex you fight appropriate enemies, one tile to the right, they are 50+Lvls above you.
"Just avoid them then". Fair enough...but clearing these tile "goals" awards you with map clear percentage, which in turn are requirements for some subquests. Instead of encouraging you to go explore to your hearts content, you constantly simply find locations where you can't go to. And did i mention that many of these resource nodes are guarded by the aforementioned "Meat Shields" ? Despite the open world, key locations are often only reachable via small roads. The entire map tile is populated by trash mobs...besides the critters sitting in front of these paths, basically acting as a character level gate.
As for side missions. They came in several flavors. The basic ones are what you found in Chronicles as well. Most basic MMO stuff. Affinity Missions on the other hand are a different beast.
Those are basically mini story missions with other playable characters.
My gripe with them can best be described with an actual example:
These missions often come with a level requirement to unlock them. And i think its fair to assume that those are the "recommended levels" and gauge your overall progress in the game somewhat.
I accepted a mission which lead me to a building inside the main town which lead to a boss fight. Tough but manageable. And then the pain began.
The quest wasn't over. I got a new party member and they promptly dictated that we go to "location X" to test out their new weapon on "Monster Y"....where again ? Never heard of....of sh*it...
Turned out, my target location was the farthest away continent of the map, the one ive never been to before, ergo: No mech to fly over, no way point to fast travel to.
That meant: Swimming for 20 minutes. Boring but managea...did i mention that the see is filled to the brim with aggro mobs several lvl above what the recommended lvl of the mission was ?
Half an hour later i arrived...only to find that the mal tile i landed on (and was supposed to be in) was populated with 50+ lvls above me enemies...and among a herd of aggros...my dinky target enemy.
Again, the balancing was all over the place and it sucked every little bit of fun out of it. Maybe i played wrong. Maybe i missed some crucial, integral part...i certainly didn't suck at the battle system per se...
It was just an overall miserable experience...and quite heartbreaking to be honest.
Add to this the generally lackluster story and characters (To be fair, Xenoblade set the bar incredibly high and its hard to reach that with an open world game with a faceless, mute protagonist, so ill give it a pass on this one)
I think their biggest problem after the sudden NX reveal (which was most certainly to appease the WiiU critics that no, they did not have to deal with that system for much longer) was the absolute radio silence afterwards.
I mean, in retrospect, the first real facts we heard about the system as a whole came in pretty much just now, 3 months before release (The first reveal trailer didn't highlight specifics and as we know now, the game footage was mostly doctored too). It just came off as incredibly unprofessional, albeit necessary in retrospect.
"Stick Vs. Pad"...i feel this is evolving into a fighting game discussion here
But sure, ultimately, its just about "getting used to it". And as long as the Switch doesn't use the Sticks the Wii Classic Controller had (those were awfully long) its "OK"-ish.
Is still prefer a D-Pad nonetheless.
We will see. I have to hold that thing in hand first to determine just how good / bad it is.
Roughly a month to go and we know more
@Tiredman
If you're planning on going all digital it might be an issue, but retail won't be any problem. On PS4/XBO retail is as big a problem as digital due to the mandatory installs, more so on PS4 as there's no additional storage options.
Nintendo's approach is better because if you buy retail then the storage isn't important. If you buy digital then you can add the storage you need. SD cards are always dropping in price and hopefully at some point they'll let you use an external HDD when docked so you could just transfer the games you want to take with you on the go rather than redownload them.
@CaPPa I am not a digital person. But on my wii u, for instance, I have digital Shovel Knight and a copy of Pikmin 3, I think it was that I got before Club Nintendo went poof. Also got a few nes, gameboy advance, and snes games. When Xenoblade Chronicles X came out, I had to make room for the files you required, and that were optional to make the game run better, and that was a huge pain. Nintendo has to get with the times, and the longer they wait, they more customers they won't draw in, and the more customers they will lose.
Edit
I also forgot, I now have a code for Shantae Half Genie Hero, and I have 0 space on the console. I never bought an external for the system, and I am not going to start now.
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