Nintendo Issues Statement On Side Quest Changes In Bravely Second

Here we go again....

I think that the original game should be respected as is without patronising western players according to 'feedback' they did not produce.

So, how about making it so your decisions have impact, just without the characters making it overly dramatic, so you don't think you chose the wrong decision? Not everything is always flowers and sunshine...

Sigh...

I think this is a great decision on SquareEnix's part, especially as it's due to feedback from the target audience and not from higher-ups that usually have a disconnect with what players want. I, for one, appreciate that more positive vibe of the side quests endings because regardless of what choice I made, it's always with the pure intent of doing what I feel is right. The whole vibe of the entire party reflects that (they are off trying to save the world after all) so it makes sense that they feel justified in their decision, especially as the game presents both sides of the story with great arguments for their ideals and you're given time to ponder. Imagine having being forced to make a choice and then regret it every time regardless of how you truly feel? I'd hate to have a game I'm enjoying suddenly twist it around and make me feel negative vibes. Great work SquareEnix!

Pathetic

@ninjanna I also agree that it is a legitimate problem and it is good they tried to solve it (changes are not bad in principle). But just like with the tomahawk class, I think the chose the completely wrong way to go about solving it.

Japanese players again.

I think they are into the story lines a lot more than we are, I could do with a lot less words in these sort of games and more game play.

What could be said in two speech bubbles here, take 20 for the Japanese.

Here come all the purity arguments, that the original must forever be maintained, regardless of demographics,markets, or feedback received. Polygon literally had an article on this in regards to Monster Hunter and received not a peep, but this will surely enrage everyone.

Works for me. It's essentially a patch. Imagine if game companies got bad feedback for something and didn't fix it?

So would everyone prefer game companies leave games exactly as they are released from now on? No more patching, no more bug fixing, cause that would change how the game originally came out?

And remember folks, its a video game RPG. You've played through this same story line about 100 times before. I say that as a huge RPG fan, but we all know we get the same rehashed storyline over and over agin.

@Zekrom025 No kidding.

It seems that choosing a side is pretty pointless (in both regions). I wonder why they bothered letting you pick?

why the hell is Nintendo being forced to explain an change made by Square Enix in their own game?

Did I read the same thing as everyone else as the statement suggests that then endings haven't actually changed but how the characters react to their choices.

"When the game was released in Japan, EACH side quest would end with the team LAMENTING the decision they made, REGARDLESS of the player's decision. This was intended to help players empathise with the characters' situation, but overwhelming feedback from players indicated that they felt an unsatisfying DISCONNECT between their intentions and the characters' reactions"

Sounds like the decision was based on reducing the melodramatic anime angst happening regardless of the player choice in every side-mission and not the actual result.

@abe_hikura Bravely Second (I believe) in the west is Published by Nintendo, not Square.

They got feedback, they changed something, and it all seems extremely inconsequential, to be honest. Will be fun to watch people once again get mad about this for no real reason, though.

This is actually a good response.

It could be argued they went the wrong way about it but this is not some situation where you can just scream about some censorship boogeyman.

They tried to improve the side quests based on player feedback. Of course half the Internet is going to do the ol "Nintendo doesn't think westerns can handle this kind of thing" nonsense.

Now the costume changes are silly I think we can agree on that.

@RainbowGazelle IIRC choosing a side dictates what new class you get.

Party sure you can eventually get the other class in the later parts of the game though.

@Warruz but it clearly states Square made the choice, It feels to me square has "let" Nintendo take this one to distance it's self from the whole thing. Which seems to of worked as people here are blaming Nintendo for the change.

So basically Nintendo is protecting us from feeling bad.

For christ's sake...

@abe_hikura Im not disagreeing, just giving some info on why that might be the case.

Good thing people did not overreact to this news and assume it was censorship by Nintendo before getting the entire story behind the changes. Wait... huh.

Dear Nintendo, if you want to know what the fans think, POLL THEM. Stop butchering your games for complete non-reasons. Not a single thing you've changed in the last few years has benefited you or made you more favourable with the audience. Maybe removing the bikini from the 13 year old being the single exception.
I'll be avoiding undue regret by not buying this.

@Dezzy Did you not read that this was a change made by Square Enix and Silicon Studio and not a change made by Nintendo, that and was after getting feedback from the Japanese audience aka the fans? If not I recommend re-reading the story.

This response justifies.

Censorship is one thing- but it's being taken far too literally if people start rallying against improvements.

The class change? Not cool. But this? This is improving the game, and having heard their reasoning I see nothing wrong with what they've done.

Far be it from me to protest improvements based on feedback.

@Dezzy
The change is made by SE, with feedback from japanese players.
If there is someone to blame, it is SE, not Nintendo -they are just the publisher.

@Dezzy @whodatninja Nintendo didn't do this. Square Enix did.

Pure PR statement.

Before, your actions had consequences and now they don't.
If that's what you want in an RPG, good for you. It's not what I want.

Apologists can swallow whatever load they're given and smile. I'm skipping this one - which seems to be an increasingly common trend with games on Nintendo consoles.

@Dezzy
So we let the "fans" decide instead of the developers? JUST NO.

For those who did not read the article and instead just the comments and/or just to post a comment without reading the article based on an assumption, to summarize the article.

Square Enix and Silicon Studio made the changes to the side quests after receiving negative feedback from fans in Japan. This change has nothing to do with Nintendo outside of them being the publisher in Western countries.

Thank you,

@Splatburst

That's exactly what they're claiming they DID do here. Let the Japanese audience decide. I'm just saying let the western audience decide on controversial issues too. We seem to routinely get treated as volatile children by some Japanese devs.

@Dezzy
"Treated like volatile children"

Well, the fanbase sure acts that way much of the time. Jus sayin- if it has webbed feet, feathers and quacks...

I think having bad endings as an option could be okey, as in being able to turn them off would be better than removing them entirely. Then again, I guess it can't be helped now, unless Nintendo/Square Enix patch in the bad endings.

Either way we will see :+).

They changed something that was implemented terribly and that players hated. Would you rather they have left it alone so you could complain about how terribly they were implemented and how you wish it was done differently?

...don't answer that. Knowing this community, I already know the answer.

So it was a dev choice based upon feedback...where have I seen this before? Oh yeah Mass Effect 3. Given the RAGE that resulted from the ending of a game I can see why devs are more hesitant to put in bad endings to side quests...especially if the way to get the good ending is a bit obtuse. Because with social media voices are louder than ever. No form of media exists in a vacuum but now people can really take content creators to task over it. Glad they listened to existing players (instead of the people who don't have the game but weigh in on it.)

Not really bothered by this. I may import Second to have the ability to take a look, but this has not really altered my decision to buy the game. Just preordered the SE. Not really understanding the complaints. This isn't the first time a game has been altered or improved for a worldwide release. It often works in our favor.

@Luna_110

Maybe. Although they're not necessarily telling the truth and there's reason to think that at least some of this is coming from Nintendo.
So if you compare the various releases of Dragon Quest 8, it's ONLY in the Nintendo version that they censored Jessica's bikini. That clearly points to it being Nintendo's doing.
Obviously that doesn't necessarily guarantee it's their doing in every case and every game. But it does suggest they do have a hand in at least some of this.

@JaxonH

All fanbases act like volatile children. Especially when you use the selection bias that the media operates with.

Undue regret ?
Geeze...

@Wexter And just a quick look at gaming history will show you, that this might not be the smartest move.
Just compare western RPGs to eastern ones.

While most eastern RPGS (or JRPGS) tend to follow a strict, linear narrative with set characters and a fixed plot, western RPGs almost always had a player driven plot progression.
Meaning, that player actions could influence the flow of the story, for better or for worse.

Thats the irony here, they implemented a feature not all that popular in the east, and removed it in western version where this sort f thing is actually rather popular.

@Ryu_Niiyama The anger about Mass Effect 3s endings is a completely different story.
It wasnt about the endings themselves, it was that whatever you did over the course of 3 games, none of that affected the ending.
And thats basically what has been advertised.

With that, every prior decision felt meaningless in the end and thats what caused the rage. It was basically the opposite, people got angry because there were less options the story could have endet instead of too many.

@Dezzy
The developers decided base on the EARLY feedback. It's the developers' CALL to ignore it or to make changes out if it. The way I read your response is they should poll the Western fans on a game that has yet to be released? How would they do it? How could they reach all the potential customers' feedback? No way I'd want the vocal minority in the internet decide for the devs.

@Warruz thank you anyways

@Dezzy You're fishing for reasons to be mad at Nintendo. I don't know what's been changed in DQ VIII, but Jessica's bikini outfits were always sleazy and seriously detracted from her character. I felt that way back when I first played that game when it launched on PS2 and still feel that way today.

@Splatburst Easy, make it optional if youre in doubt.

@DatFunkySmell What exactly does an outfit have to do with a characters personality ?

@Einherjar I'm going to respectfully disagree with you there. I was on the bioware boards during that whole mess and while some people where upset about their choices boiling down to three endings the majority that I saw were miffed about the content of the endings themselves. Many people felt that they were heavy handed and outright didn't make sense from a narrative perspective (and given the loss of writers during the games development it wasn't surprising) and that is why the Extended ending which only fleshed out the original ending scenes was grudgingly accepted. So I stand by my ME3 comparison. Personally I had bigger problems with the game series as a whole but that is a whole different conversation.

It's good to know that these changes weren't censorship this time, and that it's instead improvements after fan feedback.

In this case, I still prefer the Japanese version. I like having lots of choices in games, even if some choices have big consequences.

@Einherjar I was just taking a potshot at the people reacting to something without reading the article and giving Nintendo hate over something they did not implement. This was a purely SE and Silicon Studio decision.

From what I could gather from the article was that the Japanese fans were not upset about the outcome more the fact that no matter what they did the player characters reacted in a way that broke immersion. It is like if you played Skyrim and after doing the Imperial/Stormcloak story line and at the end the Dragonborn would go on a monologue about how he backed the wrong side rather than being assured that even if it has negatives he feels like he made the right choice in the end (which is normally how player thinks when doing one of those choose a side story lines). I think that is where the main criticism is of the original Japanese side-quests.

@DatFunkySmell

You've pretty much perfectly summed up what this whole thing comes down to: "It's fine when they remove stuff if I happen to dislike it."
The age of mind-numbing narcissism.

Wasn't this the same excuse for Sticker Star having no story? Why do Japanese players have so much say in how western versions of games turn out?

@Einherjar
Not really. If you're making a product that is for everyone, you can't include something "optional" that is inappropriate to some and not take a blame when these contents are accessed by them accidentally or purposely.

@Einherjar By making a character who is portrayed as strong and intelligent instead by viewed as pounds of flesh. Pretty simple stuff. If you were dressed as a clown, I would take you less serious in social encounters.

It's getting ridiculous. So many people seem to have different expectations of games, surely the best idea would be to take players through a set of options before you've started (or have it on the console itself)? The options could be "Sex & Nudity", "Violence & Gore", "Scary Scenes", "Swearing" and, er, "Bad Endings"... That way, everyone could get what they want without affecting others. We could even have bikinis.

And @DatFunkySmell - I'm sure @Dezzy isn't fishing for reasons to be mad at Nintendo. I'm genuinely bothered by what has been done to the 3DS version of Dragon Quest VIII - not because I'm desperate to see a bikini, but because the censorship ruins the design. This is art, literally visual art, and changing outfits does take something away from it.

@Splatburst

Well granted, they could be being completely honest and it's a genuine improvement. Their explanation just sounds incredibly weird to me.
And given that they've made so many other changes to this game that blatantly have nothing to do with actual improvements, but are more about extremely sanitizing their content so nothing remotely controversial remains, I'm going to remain skeptical it's well intentioned.

If all of this was genuinely about a concern for the players, rather than just vacuous media politics of drilling everything down to a kind of lowest common denominator of potential controversy (which is what I think it probably is), they really just should include both options in their games to keep everyone happy.

@JaxonH Heh! I agree with the "volatile children" statement. Sometimes, I feel there's much hypocrisy in the fanbase. From what I gather from @dezzy's response, you're saying that you hate the fact that other people's opinion should change the way the game has been packaged and released in the west, yet you yourself, without having played the game yet (I presume?), are quick to disregard it based on what people have opined on the internet? If that's the case, it's such a crying shame as Bravely Second is more than just side quests decisions. It's a rich tapestry of a game with fresh visuals, a banging soundtrack and a colourful cast of characters with humour and pop culture references thrown in for those in the know. I love it! And in regards to the side quests choices, even though the final outcome is presented with a more positive vibe, it's the delivery and execution that shines. Despite your choices, you still have to ponder within yourself the consequences of your actions and the two characters that are trying to get you on their side delivery their point of view brilliantly!

*** SPOILER ALERT ***
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I still feel really bad when I had to take out the Jackal for his thief asterisk as the way he delivered his final words really pierced my heart! (T_T)

@Ryu_Niiyama
"Many people felt that they were heavy handed and outright didn't make sense from a narrative perspective"

Thats the thing though. Players craftet the overarching narrative by their actions over the course of 3 games. Any fixed ending would feel out of place here, let alone one that was rushed due to staff loss.

From the people ive spoken too, it was the same deal as with the tired "it was all a dream" trope.
An unsatisfying ending, that makes everything before it completely pointless storywise.

Having a fixed array of multiple choice endings in a series that was specifically marketed as and famous for its layered story approach was bound to draw criticism.

@Wexter Yeah, i get where youre comming from.
But to be perfectly honest, seeing the recent localisation flukes, i can understand people getting a little miffed about hearing that stuff.
Also, i can see many people interpreting it as a major double standard.

While Fire Emblem was completely rewritten for the west although it was perfectly fine for japan, while this gets explicitly changed to cater towards the opinion of the japanese audience.

@DatFunkySmell If you see someone wearing a bikini as "pounds of flesh" instead of focusing on their character, well, i guess the issue is with you then.
I for instance dont judge a person based on what they are wearing and instead, do that by their actions alone.
And comparing a clown costume to a bikini is speaking volumes about you to be honest.

@Splatburst You cant make a product for everyone. Thats flat out impossible. People these days get offended by air conditioning ! If its not branching paths, they will find something else to get offendet by.
Its the wrong approach to designing your product in general. Youll just end up with a completely sterile product.

@MetalKingShield Yeah, it takes away the destruction of a great character. And it's obviously culture clash. As seen with other Japanese media, woman, homosexuality, or minorities are rarely treated with any form of dignity. Making the only playable female relegated to simply fan service is sleazy. Unless Angelo got matching banana hammocks. What was changed in DQ anyways, exactly?

@Einherjar I understand too. It may be because I help moderate an anime forum so I tend to respond back with snark more often than not when I see people going on about something without reading the OP post.

Granted the thing is FE: Fates was Nintendo this is Square Enix so the way they deal with things is different so I do not see it as a double standard more just two companies dealing with something differently. Nintendo while being allowed to tweak stuff like costumes I think let Square Enix be the people in charge of what gets altered for the story like they are doing with Atlus for TMS#FE and SMT IV.

@Piersen I have read about that class change but from what I gather, it was only a class title change (and a more parodied direction of the voice acting) but the fundamental abilities and design of the class stayed the same?

One thing I am disappointed about is finding out that the more, what they deemed, "risqué" costume designs from the original have been removed from the art book. Gotta go and pick up the Japanese version now so I can see all the original concepts. (^^)

@DatFunkySmell

No it's not a culture clash. You're doing exactly what's wrong with this whole thing.
You keep generalizing your own preference as if it's somehow representative of the whole audience or western culture. It's not. This is just narcissism. Plain and simple.
Plenty of people in the west have no problems with bikinis and don't see it as undignified or demeaning (given that they are something that women quite often choose to wear themselves). Especially when it's just 1 of many optional outfits! You made it sound like it was her only outfit and you couldn't avoid it.

I fail to see how the removal of story options from a game can be seen as an improvement.

Ironically, the Japanese gamers get to experience the different outcomes in the sidequests, tears streaming down their faces, bottom lips quivering as they experience such high levels of undue regret.

But we get to avoid this clearly upsetting content. I can already see the suicide rates dropping!

@DatFunkySmell - The changes I know of are: Jessica's Magic Bikini (now has a sarong), the Bunny Outfit (now it isn't high on the leg), an act of cruelty by a certain character in one of the story scenes, plus an act of self-violence in another story scene.

I'm not being rude, but I honestly do think if you see a woman in a bikini and see her as "pounds of flesh", "sleazy" or lacking "dignity" etc, it really does say more about the way you think than what is actually in front of you.

This sounds incredibly reasonable to me. They're just changing some dialog pieces or something so that the characters handle the situation better, right? Perfectly legit.

@edhe Pretty sure you still get a choice, but instead of bad endings for both choices, they're "good" endings now, right? Am I missing something here?

@DatFunkySmell "As seen with other Japanese media, woman, homosexuality, or minorities are rarely treated with any form of dignity" Are you kidding me ? Citation needed !

Ever played the persona series (P4: Keiji) ? Catherine (waitress Erika) ? Danganronpa (nurse Tsumiki) ? Nier (Emil and Kaine) ? Glory if Heracles (Leucos) ? GrimGrimoire (Lillet) ?

I could go on for quite some time here.

"to improve the gaming experience" Really. These changes are silly and an insult.

@Einherjar That's ridiculous. What happened to coherent design? Are you really telling me that's its smart or even okay to design a character one way (serious) but have the characters visual design not match or even contradict that design? No. It's not. It's really stupid and when Jessica's strongest armor in the game is the Divine Bustier with her skirt that's shorter than her ass and her thigh highs and cleavage exposed torso combined with obligatory female "puff puff" attack, there's not even a shred of a character I should respect on display. It doesn't help that she is the only woman in the game with a slight ability to actually make a difference in their world.

@ninjanna

I realise that sounds like hypocrisy but it's a false equivalence when you're talking about optional content. If something is optional in a game, people who both like and dislike that thing can still be kept happy.
If you remove it, you're only keeping the people who dislike it happy. Or to be more accurate, you're only keeping the people who dislike that thing so much that they're completely intolerant of other people's disagreement happy. It's not an optimum solution to anything.
The optimum solution is to make anything controversial optional, with a clear indication of how to avoid it if you like.

@Pikachupwnage I agree on your opinion on unnecessary visual changes on most parts BUT I have to say that some changes actually improved the overall design, regardless of what the original intention was.

I adore the female Summoner costume with the extra feathers on the chest and the extra "layer" of clothing under the corset for the female Merchant class is a good design choice as it balances out the whole outfit nicely since the gloves and petticoats are black.

I would like to suggest that people should experience with their own eyes (PLAY THIS GAME NOW!!!) and base your decision on how you feel about it rather than make assumptions on Nintendo/SquareEnix trying to baby us.

And in regards to overly sexy costumes... it's virtual cleavage people. If you wanna see some extra skin, Google is you friend. I can assure you some fans will probably do their own lascivious versions of their favourite characters in various states of undress with even MORE skin on show than that extra bit of missing flesh colour from her belly top. (^_~)

@Einherjar What about the opposite end of the spectrum. I decided to distance myself from this stuff at a young age because I saw this trend and didn't want to be a part of it growing up so forgive me if I don't know of the rare Japanese game that doesn't treat woman as pure sex objects.

I don't understand the concept that a designers intent is law. When they are selling you a product and also claiming it to be art its the consumers job to be doubly critical.

@DatFunkySmell You sir, have a massive issue with your own sexuality it seems.
You are the only one here degrading a woman based on her outfit alone !
If you can only take a person "seriously" if they are dressed the way you like it, you have serious issues. Im sorry to say it this bluntly.

How about you start judging a person based on their merit instead of their attire alone ?
Whats next ? Skin color ? Believe ?

"forgive me if I don't know of the rare Japanese " Youre winding like an eel here and seriously grasping at straws.
Persona 4 alone is one of the most popular JRPGs around, with a remake, 4 spin offs and an anime series.
Atlus is no "nishe" comapny, stop findin excuses for your objectifying views on people.

You impersonate this "trend" you wanted to distance yourself from. You are the definition of a person jusging a book by its cover. What youre saying is, that a woman may not dress the way she likes if she doesnt uphold your standards. That she is less worth of a person if she choses to wear less clothing.
To be frank, thats utterly disgusting.

@Dezzy Agreed! It does suck when your "choice" turns out not to really be a choice.

But whatever your initial thoughts on what is on the net, I think you should still give Bravely Second a go (maybe not now as your dislike is still quite strong and it might instill some bias in your experience) as despite the side quests, the overall delivery of the story is a wonderful experience. Truly wonderful. You'll laugh, cry and laugh some more and really fall in love with your small team of heroes and their idiosyncrasies. Bravely Second is more than just kinky costumes and irrelevant side quests.

FOR THE GRAVY!!!

In regards to this issue, I can see this as both a positive and a negative. It's a positive if you view games as a product or service as the consumer is getting an overall more enjoyable experience. However, if you were to view this as an artistic statement, it's worse off because any conceptual ideas that the writers were trying to get across have been disgarded. It really depends on your slant. But, then were left with the reality that no perspective can change. The game WAS changed to make it a more satisfying PRODUCT. So was this ever really art to begin with?

@ninjanna

Right, and I probably would if it was a massive game for me.
I'll still be buying Fire Emblem despite their very bizarre interpretation of what "localizing" meant with that game.
I do try and keep my criticisms in proportion but Bravely Second for me was one of those games that was just on the line between interested/not interested. So this just nudged it slightly to the wrong side of that line, that's all.

@Einherjar She's not a woman but a creation of a man designed to look like one. It speaks to the designer when they ship a product like that. Jessica didn't dress herself. Daddy Toriyama did. Why? Why does Yangus have a tough, yet silly appearance to match his design. Why is Angelo dashing? Why does the hero dress simply and practically? Because that's what the artist wants us to take away from their character. So I ask again, why is Jessica's most powerful armor, the Divine Bustier?

@ninjanna
I do take issue with changing the costumes and Indian class, most definitely, but this is fine.

Of course taking things into perspective of the overall picture, I've accepted these changes and moved on. It is what it is I guess.

@edhe LOL! Whether that was sarcasm or not, I have to give you a high five for that comment sir!

@Einherjar
Then let the devs and publishers do what they think it's appropriate for their target audience. They can't please everybody but they know it'll serve them better if they choose to omit some of the inappropriate features in their games than deal with a controversy later.

@Dezzy Keep it on your "maybe" list for now. It certainly has made an impact on my gaming sessions (^_~)

And yes! YES! FIRE EMBLEM! OH MY DAYS! YES!!!

@DatFunkySmell Whats your take on Bayonettas design then ? Id love to hear that.

Why is it an issue how a fictional woman is dressed then ? Thats the entire point here, its fictional. Its a fantasy universe where our rules of society dont apply.
You, and you alone chose to apply them to these characters.

What if the artists intend was to say exactly that: No matter what a person dresses like, its their doing that counts, not what they look like ? What if this universes society doesnt care if a woman wears nothing more than a bikini, and its the most mundane, natural thing in their world ?

You chose to get offended by it by applying your worldview onto fictional characters that encorporate specific stereotypical designs the artist used for decades now to destinguish between certain sets of characteristics.

Take the "dashing" Angelo for example. Its Trunks from DBZ. Female fanservice, handsome, chivalrous, "chic magnet".
Or Chrono Triggers Luca, the "Bulma" stereotype.

Toriyama is known for this.

@Splatburst You realize that this already is controversial, right ? Also, what is "inappropriate" about bad decisions ? Inappropriate for whom ?

Here we go again, Bravely will be the best selling FF spin off now.

@Splatburst

The logic of what you're saying essentially leads to "we'll change our games based on whoever shouts the loudest". It's such a disastrous approach because it assumes that the people in the media, who have the biggest megaphones, are representative of the general audience. If you keep doing that for too long, when it's not factually correct, sooner or later it just blows up in your face. Let's call it "doing a Trump".

@BaffleBlend The intention was good, noone can't say this is not true.
I personnally would have liked it if they just towned down the melodramatic reaction. Something like "let's face the "bad" consequences but not forget about why we did it". (something in the middle of what was the case in japanese, and what we have here like gray with black and white).

At the end, I will still the game (if I ever find it since all the 2016 3DS RPGs are non-existent in my region, how reat is this)

@Einherjar
Then there's your answer. They'd rather deal with this petty controversy which they think they can handle than deal with another controversy plus a bad review and reputation on the game if they won't adjust/fix it base on earlier feedback.

This change seems more a result of actual player feedback. This is not in the same realm of the recent censorship in regard to costume changes.

@Einherjar I normally try to stay out of female costume arguments (because its painful as a woman to watch guys bicker over what a woman can and can't wear even digital women) but media doesn't exist in a vacuum.

No matter how fantastical the setting any thing created by human thought has some influence of the culture the creator belongs to (which includes the culture of their sex). Even if the person that creates a form of media is totally devoid of motive or agency (which isn't possible) they are producing a product for mass consumption; meaning it will in some way conform to a higher consensus of culture (hence costume editing in the west or even market in general such as for the senran kagura series). Even if that consensus of culture as a whole is considered niche.

Also how the media is consumed is due to culture and is not in a vacuum. Heterosexual Male gaze and slut shaming is real, looking for representation in media is a thing and no amount of attempting to present a viewpoint that is blind to these things will change that. Also media is consumed by various age groups. I doubt that a 15 year old hetrosexual male will usually look at a scantily clad woman in real life or on a video game and think she is exercising her prerogative to dress however she wants. Yet an adult male might have a different viewpoint. Just as an adolescent female or adult female would have a different viewpoint. It is like bikini armor in video games...there is no logical reason for it and if its just fantasy why isn't it equally represented? If the clothing choice doesn't matter then why put her in those clothes at all? Or why not have the inverse? I'm sure heterosexual women would like to see some scantily clad guys every now and then.

Point is anything created by human hands has some sense of agency or motive to it.. ignoring that doesn't make it less true. Neither does it lessen its potential impact on those that consume it. Please note I'm not really speaking for or against clothing changes. I just feel it should be equal if you are going to do it and that purpose (who it is aimed at) of it shouldn't be ignored.

@Ryu_Niiyama Thank you for this. I am not a woman. I also don't think you have to be a woman to understand the human issue at play here. I have sisters and nieces that I think about and my biggest concern for them is that they accept a world created for them, where they aren't given the full breadth of choices that I enjoy as a male because the media and culture that we consume only gives them one side of life with little to no alternative.

@Yorumi Sadly, it seems to be really difficult to properly research or evaluate the quest changes without getting into plot-ruining spoilertown (I'd love to be proven wrong about this), which in itself makes this a pretty vicious change.

I don't exactly know the details myself, so what I have to say is worthless without confirmation, but it looks to me that the bad endings served a distinct purpose in the context of the main character's journey of personal growth and maturation.

@Yorumi because the western version is releasing like a year later, the developers had the opportunity to revise parts o the game that as originally not appreciated by players in Japan. Because nintendohas been recieving a ton of bad press for thee types of things lately, they tried to get in front of the bull to let the public know that this was a square and silicon decision and not a localization one.

@Ryu_Niiyama You see, this is where i cant follow your viewpoints.
You say that "slut shaming" is a thing and yet, you get offended by a fictional woman in a bikini.
How is hiding this stuff from any and all media in any way helping to normalise it in the grander scale of things ?

How is this attire ever going to be "normal" when its regarded as a taboo ? How is "wanting for people to judge a woman by her merits" achieved by only focusing your attention on her attire and looks in the first place ?

Also "Person of X age will see Y that way" is a grossly generalised assumption.
You see, im a european, youre from the US.
Over here, our "Jugendschutz", the government body analyzing media for inapropriate content for minors, has teh exact opposite view of yours.
Over here, sexually loaded content is a far far lesser issue than, say, violence, gore, brutality etc.
In the US, its mostly the opposite. You cringed because Kratos of "God of War" could have sex, we cringed because the devs developed a sug engine for guts and gore.

My point is: Most people i know that protest against "wrong female depiction in media / sexualization of females in media" are also the ones explicitly focusing on these characteristics and giving them power in the first place.

How is the viewpoint of "a woman in a bikini cant be taken seriously" in any way, shape or form not "slut shaming" or demeaning ?

This whole "Its a taboo and may not be shown, because it might send the wrong signals" mentality is chastising creative freedom.
You said it yourself, it could be the case that the artist had no particularly message in mind at all.
So why project one onto it and make it a problem in the first place ?

Also, talking about equal representation: There are plenty of scantly clad male characters around, that get equally objectified. Not to say that the general "bulky (space) marine" trope is a good representation of the average male either.
Male characters, especially in, say, JRPGs have two very common roles: The skinny, insecure and ditzy pervert or the arrogant, violent, brash and loud mouthed aggressor. And no body bats an eye when they are wearing nothing else but a leather strap for armor or that their character type isnt unlike a gorilla.

Do you view men differently because of that ? Does a randomly picked character represent the average male you know in both attire and character ?
And keep in mind that its the same guy designing the "scantly clad lady" who does the "feeble minded idiot perve" having the same gender he does.

If fictional game characters are loaded with meaningfull messages, why does this character trope exist ? Why would anyone portray their main hero as an utter nob when its all about "male power fantasy" ?

@DatFunkySmell - Look at it another way: why shouldn't a man create a sexy (female) character? To imply there's something wrong with that is sexual discrimination and far, far worse than the act of him creating the character in the first place. You ask why Jessica's outfits are sexy? Because she is sexy. That's her character. Like when an enemy tries to engage her in a "Battle of the Puff-Puffs" and she wins. Dragon Quest without the freedom to have this light-hearted sexiness is a series somewhat diminished.

"When the game was released in Japan, each side quest would end with the team lamenting the decision they made, regardless of the player's decision."

This was a strange design choice to begin with, but changing it is quite lamentable too.
I wonder if the decision really was by Square Enix and Silicon Studio, and if Nintendo had any say on the matter? People seem to be always blaming Nintendo for censorship.

I find it interesting that Nintendo is placing this change squarely at Square's feet. People are often quick to blame Nintendo, especially NoA, when changes are made, because they've changed some things in their own games, but it sounds like in Bravely Second's case it was Square, not Nintendo. I wonder if it was also Square that changed the Tomahawk class, and changed a few of the outfits.

@TrueWiiMaster I don't think it's who's to blame, but why the change. It seems it's more of a hang up on presentation to the West from Japanese devs in general, then any just one company deciding it. Of course Nintendo will get scrutinized here; it's a Nintendo fansite visited by mature adults. Any little thing that comes up that seemingly payronizes us is going to raise an eyebrow. But maybe we're not the majority we think we are, and those companies really do have the data on why making these changes is better in the long run. Just saying.

Besides, I think in this case, they didn't like how the inital fanbase responded to what they presented, and wanted to change it. Whether it needed to be changed in the West remains to be seen, but that's another issue to tackle.

@Einherjar - Absolutely superb post. I really do think people are projecting their own politics and insecurities onto this sort of thing.

@Moshugan - Well, Square-Enix certainly seems to be worse than Nintendo of Japan. Treehouse is bad too, but NoJ does not generally censor. Bravely Default didn't seem all that full-blooded to me, didn't really have the courage of its convictions. The outfit changes were a slap in the face, especially the Bravo Bikini. I knew there would be loads changed with Bravely Second - that, combined with the fact I'm not all that keen on the series anyway, made it an easy game to skip. Doesn't bode well for Dragon Quest XI though, even on PS4.

@argh4430
I agree, but there are many people who do want to place blame, and are especially quick to go after Nintendo. As it turns out, Nintendo wasn't responsible for the changes in Bravely Second, and so isn't deserving of any scrutiny that comes from its changes.

@TrueWiiMaster I think the crux here lies in the fact, that Nintendo gave this statement, not Square.
Thats probably why most people draw the connection to Nintendo here, based on their recent censorship mishaps.

I'm currently playing Bravely Second and I think the localisation is pretty good.

Thoses quest are stupid anyway.

Because the choice you make isn't about the story, it's about the Asterisk ( an item that give you acces to new classes ) you want to unlock.

Basically you choose a side then get to fight the OTHER guy and take his asterisk. And because thoses are Asterisk of the previous game you already know which one you prefere.
So in order to get the asterisk of a guy you have to side AGAINST him (it feels so wrong).

So whatever the narrative outcome, it's a messed up system anyway.

I'm glad at least the character are fine with the choice you make. if on top of it all I had to listen to the characters whining about how bad the choice I didn't really made was, it would have make the whole thing far worse.

So I'm okay with this localization.

I haven't played the game but I've read that in the original you have to basically play the same side quest over four times to get the good endings for each side(where you get the Asterisk/job class of the side you choose against) of the asterisk sidequest. Whereas this way you get the real conclusion for each side of the sidequest straight away.

I think it's up in the air, on one hand its cut content on the other it removes a grind for the actual ending of the sidequest. Cutting monotonous reptition can improve the game experience especially if the choice the first time through is only regretful regardless of which side you choose.

I haven't properly read this but from reading the subtitle of the article I'm like "WTF NINTENDO?!" But the fact that it was done for the fans...I'm clearly not up to date on the matter...

There are some fantastic discussions here and I'm just happy we can share our thoughts, even they are so different from each other, with each other.

@Einherjar I could print your comment out and tape it on my wall hahaha. But it is also true that we, human, can't help ourselves to relate to things we experience. And most of us tend to follow because not everyone is a strong thinker.

That is where the problem lies. All the controversy, all the unnecessary rumors and controversies are originated from it. People think so different, but they also like to group with others to share and form a similar thought. It is impossible to satisfy everyone or every group of people with one thing.

As for this case you and @Ryu_Niiyama are discussing about, the thing is, I don't think any of you are wrong. Because it really is not a black and white issue. Both of you represent a group of people that have great intentions. I personally don't understand why people are all worked up when they see game characters in bunny suits or bikini. There are so many ways to say this... As an artist, I like to draw my characters in swim suits because I think they look great in them. Their bodies to me are the work of art. If I can have an opportunity to show off how great their bodies are, you bet I will do that. Not to mention it is way much easier to draw lol.
But from the game company's view, apparently most of the time is fanservice. So it sometimes really is not the developers' fault. If there's a demand, there will be a supply. Asking developers to stop what they are doing is like trying to stop boiling water from boiling by putting a lid on it - if you really want to stop that you probably should turn off the stove instead. However, that is a long way to go, and may I say, a rather impossible goal to achieve. Because... there always will be people pushing their own fantasy(or someone may say pervert) thoughts on fictional characters.

As an American, I believe that Americans simply want what the Japanese have, but disregard what the Japanese actually think. From this feedback, my understand would be that if given the choice, the Japanese would accept the changes in the first place. So, why can't the Americans? Because they believe it's censorship, and censorship is always bad? Perish the thought!

@Kokusho Hahaha I played the Japanese version before last summer and couldn't remember much about this game. But now reading your comment I find some of my memories back. I was a little upset at that time that I had to fight the one I actually want to side with just because I wanted their jobs...

@dr_lugae

By original you mean the japanese version of Bravely Second or Bravely Default ?

I'm not yet to the part where you get to redo thoses quests. but from what I've seen until now there nothing interesting past the choice. No real consequences, so I don't really now if they actually remove something but if they did it looks like it wasn't worth the time anyway...

@RGnsd
I know right ? It doesn't make any sense.

So now I'm not invested at all in thoses quests. I'm like "yeah this dude is cool and he's totally right to think that way. Buuuuuuut I want his Asterisk so I'm gonna screw him in the end ! oh well..."

@Splatburst but if they left it in they'd be hit with they don't listen fans. see like i said ages ago they can't win. they listen to fans and change it's whaaa they changed it, they don't and leave it as it is whaaaa they never listen to feedback.

This is exactly the kind of deranged thinking that led to the disastrous Sykes-Picot Agreement. Everyone is saying they're not going to buy games from companies that cave to pressure from Nintendo like this.

@Li_Bae more square enix if you read.

So I've been fine with most of the localization changes, but this one kind of bugs me. On the one hand I'm glad they're listening to player feedback. However, this is going from "We don't want to offend anyone" to "We don't want to make anyone feel bad." Every choice has consequences and not every choice has an easy or correct answer. In short, I'd rather feel something than nothing at all.

I really need to play thru the first one fast before this comes out. Darn my inability stick with any one game for a long period of time.

From what I know, the problem wasn't so much the change itself, but that they made the plot of the game make no sense by removing events which should happen, and allude to them at a later point. It's almost as if in Majora's Mask you reached the end of the Final Day while running around town, and instead of the moon crushing Termina you saw Majora's Wrath dying and the game ended.

@Einherjar Did you even read the article?! The players' decisions never had any real impact in either version. The decisions made only affected how the sub-quests themselves turned out, and it was never a choice between a "good" or "bad" ending, as every ending has mixed results. The only thing they changed was whether your party members acted pessimistically (Japanese version) or optimistically (Western version) to those mixed results.

@Yorumi Who said anything about removing emotion? They just changed it from negative emotions to positive emotions. Accepting that you did your best to help despite non-optimal results is also a form of emotional maturation, you know.

@Ryu_Niiyama

Yes, they should have more scantily clad men in games! That's a far better solution that having fewer scantily clad women.
Although people often just ignore it when they do. So people need to get better at recognising this.
When the FF15 demo came out, loads of people were making a stink about the fact that the female character had a lot of cleavage.
No-one who complained about that even seemed to notice the fact that the main muscly guy wasn't even wearing a proper shirt. People just ignore this stuff because they've been conditioned to see one side of it more.

@Yorumi @BulbasaurusRex I've heard it takes it much farther then that and there's actually only one outcome regardless of your choices during side quests, if that isn't an example of terrible self-censorship I don't know what is. It's an RPG for pete's sake I buy them for their compelling stories and branching storylines depending on my choices in-game, and this pretty much hurts a very important aspect of roleplaying games.

Having played through Bravely Second.

I don't really see the point for the change, but at the same time I don't really see much reason to complain about it.

@Dezzy - So right. People genuinely believe in concepts like "the male gaze" (and that it's a bad thing). It truly is no less than brainwashing.

I can actually see the reasoning behind this. I'd be really annoyed if every decision I made had the characters regretting. It would start to get you down thinking you're always choosing the wrong side (without realising it happens regardless of choice). All they need is an option to see those in the New Game + as an added incentive.

My response to the rage about localization issues is always the same. If you want to pass on a great game simply because they changed some minor detail of it, then that is your loss. The rest of us will play and enjoy the game.

Interesting. If that's the case, I hope they release an update for the Japanese version. I know there are side quests in games I've played that I didn't want to do for story reasons, I can't imagine a game where every side quest is like that.

@Yorumi The gist i got from various sources:
In the original, whenever you sided with a certain party on a particular issue, your party questioned their decision and ponders, if the other decision would have been the right one instead.

This supposedly lead to people feeling distanced from their characters, as it was ultimately the players decision and they felt the characters questioned their decision making by proxy.

That was changed to no matter what you pick, you get a sort of "everything is a-ok" response instead that doesnt question whether or not it was a good decision in the first place.

Sadly, the community is far less active on this game. With FireEmblem, you had more than enough comparison images between scripts and events. Bravely seems to have a vastly smaller audience and most criticism actually focuses on things like the horrible decision to change the native american costume for a stereotypical cowboy one, but keeping skill names like "shamanism".

Thats all nice and dandy Nintendo but what about the removal and censoring of ingame stuff though?

Did Japanese players complain about the outfits being too revealing so you changed them for the west?

Also SMT fans and JRPG fans in general are fine with having "unhappy endings" in stories so if you feel regretful for a decision we live with it. Heck many WRPGs have morality decisions that you don't agree with and leave you feeling bad when its over.

Don't baby us Nintendo.

@nintendomasterr Lets be fair here, SMT is an "unhappy story", not just the ending
These games are horribly depressing throughout and yet, extremely beloved. Because they break out from this happy-go-lucky fantasy trend.

They tackle modern issues like sexuality, believe, segregation etc. in a fresh setting.

@Ryu_Niiyama @Einherjar I understand what she is saying. It is an issue I worry about with my daughter. One day she will look at all the media around her and start to wonder if she is normal because she does not look like (and honestly will not be able to look like, cause photoshop, tape and makeup) the women on magazine covers, billboards, television, and everywhere else. It is that she will exist in a world that has stories such as this: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/26/living/si-cheryl-tiegs-ashley-graham-unhealthy-feat/index.html. Where a beautiful model that is "plus-sized", although only slightly above the American average for women, is shamed publicly for being an "unhealthy" weight. Nevermind, she is probably more fit than most of us, all that matters is the almighty waist size and weight.

And yes, video games are a power fantasy. As are television and movies. But I think the desire is to see more of reality reflected in media, where women (and men) of all body types and personalities are represented instead of the one now where the majority must look like Barbie and Ken (unless they are comic relief or the [insert undesirable trait here] friend). Power Fantasy is great, but it can and does effect people that already have body image issues.

@Yorumi Thats the thing here, the issue is just bad writing. Pondering each decision is as bad as making decision irrelevant because its just all fine and dandy.

The game gets praised for its "colorful cast" and yet, nothing is done with them in that regard.
If they are colorful, they are bound to have diverse opinions on the matter. Play with these characters in these decisions.

I only know Tiz and Edea from Default and those two had very destinct world views. Tiz was rather thoughtful, level headed all the while being driven by duty.
Edea on the other hand was extremely impulsive, "head through the wall" and energetic.

Tiz is the one who would ponder over his decisions, while Edea would be the one to go with the "good decision" because it is, well, the good decision, the knightly one.

Whatever it is, you can play these decisions out way better than making it all bad or all good. Diversity is the key here, and interestingly, its the first thing that gets cut in the name of diversity...

@Darknyht Like i said above, we here generally dont have these issues. People dont put so much emphasis in looks, body shape or clothing. Sure, there are always a handfull of people against it, myself included, but its really nothing to be afraid of.

I agree that things like "beauty standards" are absolute bollocks. The difference is, were talking about Real Life Vs. Fiction here.
And imo, first oriority should be to teach people the difference here. If your game / movie etc is based on real people, scenarios etc yes, represent your characters the way it is. There is no crowd of people exclusively thing or exclusively chubby. Mix it up. But for a magic weilding, monster fighting, world saving anime character, its really a non issue.

Okay, this explanation makes sense, so far as if you have a certain decision that aligns with a certain character's values, then they will be content with the outcome. However, the characters all have a different world view, so it doesn't make sense that they would all be absolutely satisfied with the same outcome. They're all going to have different opinions. Different actions/endings should have different responses from each character, not the same response from every character.

Like @Einherjar said, branching paths of this nature are more common in western RPG's, and they've been implemented with plenty of depth in many titles, dating back to at least the Baldur's Gate and Ultima series. The Japanese tend to be either more simplistic, or have different perspectives being shown based on the circumstances, rather than focus on branching paths. (With a few exceptions, like Shin Megami Tensei, but in those titles you usually end up killing everyone who disagrees with you.)

Sounds like Square Enix tried something a little different, and it fell a bit flat. And goofed the character reactions not once, but twice over.

@Yorumi XIII had some really questionable characters. Vanille for instance was downright appauling.
Though on the other hand, XIII also had one of my favorite FF characters ever and, imo, one of the best written ones: Sazh.

Its a really rocky road, with the stereotypical stoic square hero, or rather heroin Lightning. The godawfull "Hero" wannabe idiot brawler Snow. The incarnation of teenage angst, Hope. Whatever Vanille was supposed to be like and Fang / Sazh which are, imo, pretty well written and overall rather likable.

The story was your typical BS excuse to throw some nonsense words around and present CGI fireworks. Style over substance, it was definitly not a IV or VI.

Hooray, now every decision I make will be the right decision, just like in real life.

@Yorumi I would argue that's been going on since FF12.

Remember how they tried to convey a commoner's perspective of events greater than himself by making Vahn the main character? Oh, wait, maybe Ashe is the main character, since she's actually integrally involved in the main plot, and Vahn was just.... Oh, no, wait... Maybe Balthier and Fran are the main characters, they're among the actual Sky Pirates Vahn looks up to, and they become the leaders of a rebel group that... Oh wait, now here's Basch, who used to be a Captain in the Dalmascan military, and his boss turns out to be the final boss, so maybe it's like a story of Justice against them, so we're going to infiltrate the royal palace to... Wait, we somehow got out and we're heading towards the ocean bordering the desert power plants? Why the hell are we going all the way over there to...

Yeah, FF12 is all over the place. Personally, I think Balthier and Fran should have definitely been the main characters, and everyone else would just have their own motivations for joining a couple of rogues. Square Enix went downhill from Square and Enix as soon as they merged, with a few exceptions like The World Ends With You and Kingdom Hearts. (In other words, Tetsuya Nomura stuff...)

Is there a legit source of this? Official statement without even linking the source? this article seems very fishy to me. All other sites out there just link their source to this site.

@Einherjar Hope actually had a good reason for his teenage angst, though, because Snow was a douchebag idiot who got Hope's mother and other people killed with unrealistic tactics/ideas. But yeah, other than Sazh (who had the mildly racist depiction of afro hair as a chocobo nest) and Fang (who may have made for a more interesting main character, if not Sazh), the cast was terrible. Vanille in particular was basically a throwaway anime meme character who got lost after wandering outside of the "Mo-eh/Moe" genre.

@Einherjar I think that in a lot of ways we unfortunately have a very shallow and self-centered culture over here. Perhaps one day we will realize that the most valuable and admirable characteristics of a person are the ones that are not physical in nature.

As for the game, it sounds like how things have worked for years. Japan is essentially a giant beta test and if there are complaints or issues they fix it before a wider Western Release. If purists had their way, Dragon Quest I would have had a horrible user interface on the NES and Super Mario Bros 2 would have been essentially a DLC (ala Disk Drive System) release add-on to the original.

Will the Japanese version be changed in a future patch? If not, I'm not entirely convinced about the changes they made. Don't get me wrong, the changes seem justified in some sense (even though I don't agree with it), but if they made the changes for other regions, why not update it in Japan?

All in all, the changes made to this game (and the deluxe edition) have made me go from "curious" to "uninterested".

Couldn't they just, maybe, leave the BAD ENDs in, but make them exclusive to New Game Plus, if such a thing exists in Second? Hell, I'm playing through Drakengard 3 right now, and its DLC Prologue chapters can't be played until having seen Ending A.

@PlywoodStick I really dont think an afro is all that "racist" and i actually think the whole Frocobo thing was kinda cute ^^
I just love his character. Hes very believable and relatable.

His views on the whole situation are very natural. He first goes by what he learned from society / media, even though he learned first hand that it might not be true. On a personal note, his way of dealing with stress through witty jokes hits very close to home

As for hope, sure, he had plausible reasons for his hatred and disgust for Snows attitude. I mean, whats not to hate about that douchebag ? I just couldnt stand his "chameleon" acting. This constant "Im angry, im sad, im angry, im sad" combined with "im strong, im weak" etc was just annoying.
Imo, every kid his age would have just thrown a tantrum towards snow the instant they are in ears reach and dont wait for the porpper opportunity, pondering in the meantime. But thats just my opinion.

Vanille on the other hand, i just couldnt stand in any way, shape or form. Her obsession with touching people, this overly childish behavior and the forced "playful" attitude was tiresome.
And i never understood what Fang saw in her
There were plenty other, far nicer woman in the pond to fall for.

@Darknyht Good points and good comparisons.
I think the biggest crux here is the internet. People now have the ability to compare releases. I mean, thats how people found out about 50% of FE Fates script went missing during localisation.

If you dont know about it, well, you simply dont care. But people are way more passionate about their hobby and started using the web to dig for more background info.
As for this game, the biggest issue i see is, that bad writing was fixed with bad writing.
Instead of properly fixing what was wrong: Characters acting in unison to question the players decision (so basically their own), now you have characters reacting in unison questioning nothing at all.

No one thought: "Hey, how about we implement each characters unique personality into it, so they might not question the player, but maybe each others opinions on the matter"

Comparison to Default, as i havent played Second:
(minor spoilers) In the desert town, you have a sidequest where you basically axe the corrupt king.
In a choice scenario, both, letting him rule and getting rid of him would be bad decisions for the city, no matter what.
But you could have your party discuss this matter, half of them are more concerned about the political situation, others are more concerned about the popolus. Its not a complicated system.

As for society...sadly, im not seeing this anytime soon.
We live in a time, where people get offended by the most mundane stuff and knit a narrative about how opressed and weak they are.
People forgot to believe in their own strength. When the female body becomes an object of opression, you have already lost, as personality and character have lost their meaning.

@Einherjar I cannot really comment on the Default Series as I have never played them, but if they are anything like the improved characters of FF-III of DS fame then bland personalities is an overstatement. In general I think writing those kind of dialogues are harder than we think, or else there would be more give-and-takes like existed in the classic Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories.

But I think you hit the nail on the head that anything plus internet equals a vocal minority screaming bloody murder. The fact they changed it means that no matter what they did they would take some sort of grief over it.

popcorn anyone? Or... am I to late... >n>

@Darknyht Actually not at all. III had the issue that it had a set plot but no characters to work with, as the original version had a group of "faceless protagonists" very much like the first one.

While Defaults cast was stereotypical, they were all rather likable and unique. You had the duty driven, sheltered "world saver" who couldnt cope with social interaction, the "farm boy" who was very level headed and saw things very down to eath, the fugitive knight who couldnt stand the wrongdoing of her empire any longer and instead, fought for the people and the amnesiac deus ex know-it-all womanizer.

The whole dynamic was pretty well done actually, as all had good, believable views on both, personal and political issues. All packaged up in a "were trying to save the word, but politics get in the way" plot.

Thats why its so sad that they fall back onto such bad writing techniques to maskerade lacking foresight in terms of characterization in tough situations.

As for the Internet situation, im actually rather glad that people are able to voice their opinion nowadays because im generally not a fan of "shut up and eat whats on the plate" mentality.
The biggest problem is, that most devs are pretty distanced from their fanbase. Thats why this whole thing is quite an obscure case of listening to one audience but ignoring another key demographic. Its just weird overall.

The kicker here is most definitly the timing to other recent localisation flunks though. That fueled the fire in the worst possible way.

@DiscoStew
"As an American, I believe that Americans simply want what the Japanese have, but disregard what the Japanese actually think. From this feedback, my understand would be that if given the choice, the Japanese would accept the changes in the first place. So, why can't the Americans? Because they believe it's censorship, and censorship is always bad? Perish the thought!"

I pulled out all my upvotes in this article and gave them to you!

@Einherjar Let me try to rephrase what I said. I don't hate that people can have a voice, I hate that too many take a view of "my way or nothing else". One of the prime examples I can give is how in politics in this country the national dialogue has become a Left/Right, Black/White view and heaven help the poor person that tries to point out that not all issues can be reduced to a simplistic A/B choice. It becomes less about what is right for the country and more about what is right for our side to win.

I am sad to hear that Square was lazy. While their dialogue and story beats never have been the best (Spoony Bards and all), it at least made the world seem alive. From what you are describing it sounds very much like they dropped the ball.

@MetalKingShield It doesn't reflect in the story like all of the other characters and their special traits. It seems like its only there for the obligatory "woman is sexy" trope. We see Yangus' humanity be a significant part of his character throughout the game. The same with the hero's courage and Angelo's charisma. Yet, Jessica's Sex Appeal stat is just there for no reason other than she's female. Her actual character has nothing to do with that as she's quite hostile towards men coming on to her.

@MetalKingShield So they're still in there. People made it sound like they were completely removed. My reactions and use of phrases like "pounds of flesh" are just compounded because of my experiences with this stuff. Some in context sexiness is no problem, but in a fictional media where a person can be designed as anything in a writer or artists imagination and 4/5 times woman is sexy gets selected, it should be addressed.

@Dezzy All of her optional outfits are meant to show off her sexiness except the in canon clothes you meet her in that she keeps her her closet that has the weakest stats of anything she could equip. Whether its her Dancer's suit, Bunny Girl suit, Dangerous Bustier, Magic Bikini, or Divine Bustier,(am I missing any, its been years) all of those pieces of gear are incredibly important if you actually want to have a strong party or beat the secret end boss.

@zool ZOOL was a siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiik game

@MetalKingShield Sorry for the long list of replies, my day was full of other stuff. A man can absolutely create sexy women, my only problem with it is that too often its the only option or in Jessica's case is shoehorned in when her character in dialogue and cutscenes makes no reference to her sexiness accept Angelo pretending to come on to her when you first meet him. Society in many ways is influenced by the art and media it creates and there are misogynist out there that view woman as having one role in society and this constant defaulting to sexy empowers that messed up way of thinking.

edit: If Jessica's personality ever hinted even once that sexy was a way you could describe her it wouldn't be as bad. I don't know if she was rewritten for the NA version of the game but the start of this issue for me was that her character doesn't match how she's visually portrayed in battle or her combat skills in general. It hurts her and makes her a bad character because she's inconsistent all because she had to be TNA for no real reason.

It's a little thing that wouldve made the game a fair bit more interesting if it was kept intact. I've done the first of these sidequests and considering how big an impact my decision had i felt that the characters reaction didn't quite reflect this at all.

@Einherjar Super heroes are supposed to be larger-than-life. I agree with you on that. In many ways I agree with everything you've said. My issues have never been with the use of sexuality or bikinis in games, media, or culture. My original intent before it was blown out of proportion was that by focusing on Jessica's sexiness outside of the narrative it damages her character because she's not as shallow as her combat armor and attacks would make her seem. That's not a good thing when it comes to character design because it makes her flawed(not in the relatable human way) when compared to the wonderfully realised characters such as Angelo and Yangus and even our stereotypical silent protagonist. Her fifth skill should have been Temper or Willpower and not Sex Appeal because like Angelo, Yangus, and the Hero, with charisma, humanity, and courage its the trait that most accurately describes her and actually fits the narrative. This is not a SJW thing was never intended to be. This was just a case of me pointing out bad character design in my second favorite game of all time and hoping they would do better.

edit: One last time I'm going to use my clown example as I think it was misinterpreted the first time. Let's pretend that Jessica skills weren't Whips, Staves, Knives, Fisticuffs, and Sex Appeal but were instead Whips, Staves, Knives, Fisticuffs, and Juggling. Every so often you would level up and Jessica could learn a new skill that incorporates her clown abilities. Also in the late game and even throughout the mid game, you discover various outfits that can be equipped that changes her default appearance to one that looks like a court jester and various harlequins.

Now with Jessica's clown aspects of her character replacing her sexy, put that into the game without ever referencing them in narrative or dialogue. Keep Jessica as serious and short-tempered as she always is and tell me this is not a stupid character we just created with throwaway skills for no reason. Yeah it would be silly to the player, and there is some value in that, but if its that easy to replace with some other skill set why not make it something meaningful like what Yangus has?

@Darknyht Same here in Germany politics wise. With the current crisis, youre either for or against it, there is no middle ground and both partys get shamed by the other.
As for their writing, well, like many pointed out already, you included, it was never their strong suit to begin with. And with more complex characters it shows that they fall flat when they have to utilize them properly.

@DatFunkySmell Im a bit short on time, so a quick reply to what ive read from your comment (no offense, will read it properly later ):
What you forget here, is that the saying "a womands body is their most potent weapon" doesnt come from thing air.

My favorite example character for this is MGS3s EVA.
On the outside, its Ms Tits on legs. Always showing her boobs, seduces every main male character etc.
If you analyze the story a bit, that woman bested the the biggest man in the global game of war.
She seduced Snake, BIG BOSS, the man of men. She played him like a damn fiddel.
She outsmarted ocelot the, by now, quadruple agent. She even bested the shadow organisation Major Zero built !
All because of her female assets !
Something very close to what actual female spies do, because it works.
So in essence, shes one of the smartest, most calculating characters in the entire series.

Jessica is something similar. Shes smart, strong but also a seductress. Again, something that is used in the real world too. There is nothing wrong about twisting some heads, it doesnt make you any less of a person. It just means that this person knows how to use their charme to benefit their cause.

I think the issue with all of these censorship controversies is that all of them seem to stem from a pointless change that people join sides over as if to gain the moral high ground for why they're right. I keep seeing people act like removing outfits and stuff is good because "that smut doesn't belong in my games!"/"it makes it more accessible!" while others want it to stay because "games are art and the original should be respected!"/"leave my games alone!". It all comes off as a cheap and shady way of getting free advertisement by changing what doesn't need to be changed instead of actually promoting a game to make more people aware of it. Even worse is that these announcements happen really close to the release dates and if you bought a special edition, you're either "supporting censorship" or letting some GameStop employee pawn it on ebay.
Just look at Fatal Frame V.
-decently niche game
-download only outside a limited edition that only Europe got
-not much marketing
-edited content isn't even usable until after multiple playthroughs besides the cutscene it's from
-the stuff that did stay was more questionable but totally ignored
And yet look at all the attention it got when people found out about some textures getting swapped!

Seeing as how many people in this comments section can't read an internet article properly I'm not surprised "Nintendo" ''dumbs down'' video game scripts in the first place.
I find the additional statue in the European and Japanese collectors edition being mysteriously removed in the North American collectors edition to be a more serious thing to get worked up over. This sounds like nothing more than a script change which is....you know....common in localizing anything.

Sounds like a load of flapping about nothing. You want to play games as they were originally presented in Japan? Learn Japanese then.

@DatFunkySmell - I've read all your replies and appreciate the thought you've put into them. I'm not going to disagree with your analysis - outside of the outfits and the "Sex Appeal" stat, I suppose there is not much else to suggest Jessica is an overly sexual character. However, I would say this - does there need to be? Sometimes it's very subtle. If you take Meena and Maya from DQ IV, it's clear that Maya is sexy, whereas Meena is more restrained, but that's something instinctively inferred rather than ever spelt-out.

Another thing is the Bunny Girls in the taverns. They are meant to be sexy in that particular role. I haven't played DQ VIII on 3DS yet, but I'm assuming their Bunny outfits are as censored as Jessica's. I forgot to mention Red's outfit is censored as well, and she is definitely sexual towards Yangus.

More than anything, ask yourself this - do you honestly think these things are being toned down for the sake of better writing? I'd say it's overwhelmingly more likely that they are being toned down in a global wave of prudishness. It is merely this that I object to, as it's an aspect of storytelling and tone that simply won't be possible in games from now on.

@MetalKingShield I'll have to see these changes for myself as I have no reference for what actually occured beyond the original version. Red was definitely flirtatious with Yangus but that's because it's implied that they were romantically involved before the game begins. Do you know if the 3DS version will still have voice acting? That's a huge selling point for me buying the game again.

Sounds fair enough. There's no branching path that's been lost and to always get a 'bad' lamenting outcome to a battle doesn't seem right for this game.