As I'm somewhat reliant on Nintendo success to put food on the table and amiibo on the shelf - the clue's in the site's name - I sometimes ponder and get genuinely concerned about the company. I think Nintendo will be 'fine', courtesy of its talented staff and billions of dollars in the bank, so my concern centres around its place in the dedicated gaming system markets. Nintendo will potentially make a lot of money from smart devices and, with the aforementioned resources at its disposal, can sustain itself and evolve as a business with such comfort that it can afford bumps along the road.
So, my thoughts centre around Nintendo as a game console manufacturer, including its portable products. The Nintendo NX could be the company's most important gaming platform ever, potentially, as it's coming off the back of Wii U struggles and the 3DS heroically achieving success somewhat against the odds, surrounded by tablets and smartphones. The survival and relative flourishing of the 3DS is to Nintendo's immense credit, but repeating the trick will be hugely challenging. A shrinking dedicated handheld market with a home console that has failed to succeed at a mainstream level - yeah, that puts a lot of pressure on the NX concept.
Part of my concern, though, is that Nintendo's lost some of its appeal, cool-factor or whatever you want to call it. By the time the GameCube rolled around the big N was losing the market that revolves around triple-A high-end big-budget experiences, and happily gave up that battle to brilliantly forge new audiences with the Wii and DS. The trouble is that after creating a new wave of gamers, Nintendo lost many of them in an unwinnable battle with smartphones and tablets. If touch-based and cheap gaming is the bread and butter for many, a number are happy to get their fix on a device they own and always have handy - their phone. Add to that the diminishing love for motion controls, and Nintendo has been in a tough spot.
The Wii U will likely hit about 12 million lifetime sales by the end of March 2016, which certainly brings a conclusion that a significant portion of those are dedicated Nintendo fans - ie those that want any and all Nintendo systems. The problem has been attracting broader audiences, and the Nintendo NX will need to appeal to existing Wii U and 3DS gamers, but also have a concept that - like the Wii and DS - grabs the mainstream by the hair and demands its attention.
We don't know what NX is yet - my money is still on a portable / home console hybrid, which is a fairly common view - but it'll need both a key unique selling point and enticing games. It'll need them early, too, as a slow start is a scenario not even worth contemplating at the moment, as retailer faith will need to be rewarded. Minds turn to Mario platformers, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing when looking at guaranteed hits - based on software sales in the past two generations - but I'm only just realising how vital an early Smash Bros. could be in drawing in gamers of various types.
This past weekend I went along to Rushdown Edinburgh's Armagedinburgh event in, yes, Edinburgh. Primarily a fighting game tournament, but also in this case with a range of fun established and new multiplayer games in a 'casual' area, it caught me out in terms of how well attended it was. It's a community that's clearly growing.
In any case, while games like Mario Kart 8, Rocket League and Nidhogg were going down well in the casual room, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was a starring attraction alongside Ultra Super Street Fighter IV and Mortal Kombat X in the main room. I've watched my share of Evo and Nintendo of America's official Smash Bros. comps online, but when at an event and seeing the competitive and enthusiast scene first-hand it struck me just how valuable Smash Bros. is to Nintendo.
Now, I've already blabbed in a previous article about competitive gaming being vital for Nintendo in the future, with the hope of a growing Smash Bros. scene and a stronger presences for games like Splatoon and more. Yet I'm only just getting out of my bubble of mediocre Smash Bros. skills - earning me some beatings online - to realise how important this game truly is. It's simple enough that I can teach my brother how to play off the cuff and we'll have fun fighting as Ryu vs Zero Suit Samus, yet advanced enough that it can be incredibly exciting to watch two competitive players duking it out. As seen at events like Armagedinburgh and similar-sized occasions, or in the sizeable halls of the main tournaments like Evo, it's blockbuster entertainment.
I'm rambling a little, but will get to the point. Nintendo could benefit significantly with a Smash Bros. experience as a lead title on its next hardware, even if it's an Ultimate Edition / Director's Cut offering. It's good enough for the Street Fighter series to have occasional stop-gaps, and an enhanced version of Smash Bros. Wii U on new hardware with NX-related features, all previous DLC on the disc and an extra mode or two could be key. Give it enough new content to tempt an upgrade, though without the unreasonable development demands of an all-new entry, and you have a strong early runner to accompany the hardware. Part of the Wii U's problem, and the 3DS come to think of it, was that both lacked titles to excite dedicated fans but also more platform-agnostic gamers.
Smash Bros., like Mario Kart, has the gimmick of combining familiar and recognisable mascots with winning gameplay. When you add in third-party iconic names like Pac-Man, Mega Man and Ryu, you establish a bit of a behemoth, and sales figures show that - over the last decade - Smash Bros. has been among Nintendo's strongest performers. It can reach across the lines to a broad audience, too, with the title being the 10th best selling retail game in the US (Wii U and 3DS sales combined) for the first six months of this year, solid sales a number of months after launch hype. It's one of those evergreen products.
I accept I'm setting myself up for a fall proposing an early remaster or ultimate edition for NX. It'd break the tradition of the series having one all-new game per system, while some would consider it a cheap move to flesh out the early NX library. My answer is, yep, there's no denying they would be valid arguments and perspectives.
Yet this sort of policy can be a vital weapon. Sony used The Last of Us Remastered to sell systems, Microsoft got sales for Halo: The Master Chief Collection; one was an excellent re-release with all DLC and nice visuals, one was a bit pants with notable online problems. Either way, it's a modern-day strategy, and plenty joke about the glut of remakes we've seen on PS4 and Xbox One. Joke we may, but they must be selling reasonably, and Nintendo has its own track record of going back a couple of generations for Wii U and 3DS library fillers. We're just talking about succumbing to a more rapid, timely turnaround to match circumstances.
Further considerations naturally revolve around series creator and lead Masahiro Sakurai. The creative force of the franchise seemed to be disenchanted immediately following the release of the Wii U version, yet has since expressed enjoyment in producing DLC and new fighters with a smaller team. Sakurai-san may want to move on to other projects once DLC is wrapped up - probably - by the end of this year, so perhaps would have to be a reduced-role consultant of another team working on an expanded edition. That seems like a potential sticking point, considering the degree of control and expertise that Sakurai-san has over the entire process.
With those hindrances it's perhaps fantasy to hope that the early days of Nintendo's next system will have a re-release and expansion of the current Super Smash Bros. Time isn't necessarily an issue (I still think late 2016 / early 2017 is the earliest we'll see NX), but there are a lot of ifs, buts and maybes.
Ultimately, I think Smash Bros. can be vital for Nintendo's hopes of an early, notable impact at the launch of its NX platform. The system itself needs to have a winning formula, there need to be a number of key releases to scratch the itches and win the attention of varied gamers from across the whole mainstream spectrum, and issues such as pricing need to be right.
Super Smash Bros. is a game with the potential to excite gamers that are both relaxed and hyper competitive, and all in between. It can be as big a draw as Mario platforming and Mario Kart in the coming generation, and perhaps convention and tradition should make way to capitalise on its potential. We can always have a 'New' entry years further down the line.
Comments 116
I don't think there's even a single doubt that Smash will be on NX, and it will be integral, and amazing. Nintendo seem content with the current ones for now, which is god because as am I and I won't stop playing them for a long time, so we might be kept waiting for a while. The possibilities they have though really are endless, I'd love to see what more 3rd party content they could bring on board, though of course nothing OTT or from EA, Ubisoft (except maybe Rayman) and the other scummy ones. And is it possible to be excited about it just for one character? I believe Splatoon and the Inklings have come a little too late for the latest Smash games, even as DLC, but they are certain to be in the next ones, and they will be probably the best new addition to Smash pretty much ever for me. Already excited!
Melee HD will sell the nx
Get Mario Kart on the front lines, and that should be fine. However, I think Nintendo should hold off on the Smash card until about a year into the NX's lifespan. Gotta build up the hype for something like that. Unless it's Melee HD.
I would have no problem with remasters to hold Nintendo fans over for new games, give us the Metroid Prime Trilogy and Zelda:TP & SS without motion controls.
Also, I hope that the NX will be hybrid as well. That would be the only acceptable reason to have another underpowered system.
I have to pose this question: If they DID do what this article proposed...would they add in the Ice Climbers? I doubt that hardware limitations would be a problem this time, so I have to wonder...
If Sakurai has anything to say than smash bros will never be a fully competitive game. He continuously expresses his dislike of competitive smash as it's some sort of 'tarnish' on his vision.
That being said I love competitive smash. It's REALLY interesting to watch. (except when DIddy Kong was the only ticket out). I have a small list of pipe dreams for the game that may never happen but heck, why not list 'em:
I wish heavy characters had enough power to make up for their lack of speed. It's interesting to see Bowser as a top competitor now but traditionally Dedede, Ganondorf, et al have never stood a chance.
My favorite levels were from the original smash brothers. Just enough interaction to make it more interesting than say "final Destination" but not so much that it turns into Stone Spire from Brawl where 9/10 times you die from environmental causes. Temple from melee was great because it was the shape/structure that made it so fun (and size).
Remove the impediments to competitive play - I actually think Wii U/3DS has done this but brawl was a joke. Putting in things like tripping JUST so people can't play it the way you demand. I found that childish but I'm very glad to see it improving.
Did someone actually think that Nintendo would not bring Super Smash Bros to the NX? They do one game per system so of course it will come out, just like there will be a Mario Kart, a Zelda and likely a Splatoon.
However there isn't any chance of it being an early release. Nintendo takes their time producing games and big hitters like Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart are not gonna be produced over night. So I wouldn't expect to see them for at least the first or maybe second year of the NX life cycle.
I don't think Smash will be that necessary for NX.
The DS, GB, GBC and GBA never had Smash and had fighting games that are of a hit and miss. Yet they sold HUGE and made a legacy.
What I think NX will be (and this has been heavily implied by Nintendo themselves) is a family of hardware devices that share the same architecture, OS, and software development tools. This will allow Nintendo to develop games across all their hardware simultaneously, which is very different from what is happening right now, where Nintendo can either choose to develop Wii U exclusives only or 3DS exclusives only. Rarely will you ever see a Nintendo game that is available on both the Wii U and 3DS.
Their is an exception though, and it just so happens to relate to this article. Just imagine Nintendo implementing their "Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS" solution for all of their future games and franchises, where they simultaneously develop two versions of the same game or game concept on two different devices and optimize each version for each device. Only this time, the process is much quicker and more streamlined thanks to the common architecture + OS + software development tools across the NX family of hardware.
If Nintendo plays their cards right, they could easily prevent software droughts and appeal more to third parties.
I just want Ganondorf to be SSS-tier next smash bros. Not too much to ask right?
@Artwark
Of course Smash Bros. isn't necessary for NX to succeed, but the franchise is very successful and can push a lot of hardware. The GB, GBC, GBA, and DS lines were not capable of handling a game as intense as Smash Bros, but the 3DS could, though with significant drawbacks when compared to the superior Wii U version.
Now imagine if Nintendo next handheld had the necessary processing power and resolution to play a HD Smash Bros game. That game would fly off of shelves and help push a whole lot of hardware in the process.
Smash Bros would be great on the NX, but perhaps not as a launch title. The Wii U version still feels very new and I'm still really enjoying it at the moment.
I'd prefer for Mario Kart to be a launch title. Perhaps they could have a few guest characters from other Nintendo franchises similar to the Mario Kart 8 DLC, which would help to advertise other Nintendo games at the same time.
I'll be happy if they add the Inklings into the next smash, and it would be even better if they added Callie and Marie.
I think an HD upgrade for launch day NX's would be amazing. With all the DLC being put out and the increasing audience of Competitive smash, having a game ready for launch of the new console could be a huge success for Nintendo. Of course, people would complain, but considering a number of other publishers have been getting away with re releasing games barely a year old, I think Nintendo should be able to do something similar.
You could probably write a marketing course on why a title like Zombi U was a poor choice for a release and/or pack in title for a Nintendo console. Or why releasing MK8 1.5 years into the console's life was way too late.
(But you could also speak volumes about some of the amazing gaming experiences on the Wii U.)
I like Tom's idea--the director's cut spin is creative enough given Big N's lack of such titles--but one thing knaws at me. It seems like when Nintendo tries to market to "professional gamers", it loses. It's like trying to court the uber popular kids when you have a plenty of friends who've got your back. As I have said (in some form or another before), IMHO, the real failure of the Wii U was not winning over hardcore gamers, but the failure to make families (young kids, and dads and moms who think gaming is fun) to move on from the Wii. These are the folks that have no need for an Xbox or a PS4 (too many mature titles). Turns out, they could keep buying Skylanders and Infinity for the Wii. No need to upgrade to the "Wii 2" **FACEPALM**
I'd find it hard to improve on smash as it is right now. (granted with the big tournament patch coming out). and I wouldn't even feel cheated if they just ported it over.
@westman98 that's what I'm thinking as well. No way a hybrid console will ever work in the real world due the different price/performance ratios for consoles and handhelds.
OT: I think a "director's cut" of MK8 is more likely. Or a SMG(2) o even a Metroid Prime Trilogy HD remaster can do the trick.
Even if the did make an enanched version of SSB4 i wouldn't buy it since i would just wait for a new Smash Bros.
Hopefully Nintendo have got there head on this time around, & have actual games in development already for NX, & of course speaking to 3rd parties. I agree about Smash Bros being a launch game, it could be like you said an Ultra Smash Bros with all DLC etc. This would work very well with many not owning a Wii U, they could also do the same with Zelda U.
Smash Bros. Match Three Edition. Boom, casuals back in and Sakurai doesn't even have to lift a wrist
I don't think Nintendo should jump on the HD Remaster train but instead focus on franchises/types of franchises that didn't come to Wii U, combine that with Wii U backwards compatibility and that would make a great lineup. Launch with Zelda, F-Zero and Animal Crossing, then bring out Metroid, 3D Mario, 2D Kirby, Fire Emblem, Wario Land, etc. In addition keep updating Splatoon, Mario Kart and Smash for Wii U with new content.
@AJ_Lethal
Thank you for agreeing. I am glad at least somebody other than me thinks the idea that a singular handheld/hybrid console is asinine and presents way too many problems, most of which are problems won't be able to solve very easily.
What I would like to see for NX are HD remasters of some 3DS games, specifically on the less handheld oriented games.
So many people doing in depth game speculations on a system we still know nothing about... I'm going to laugh so hard if Nintendo comes out of left field and the NX isn't a hybrid system, especially if the nature of the system is so different that these editorials are irrelevant. And fine, at the very least a Smash Bros on this system could only benefit it, but still, so many people are just assuming it's a hybrid system and running with that. For example, if like the Wii it's introducing a completely new control scheme... Well, a Smash at Wii's launch would've taken the focus away from the games that showed the tech's capabilities like Wii Sports, the system likely benefitted from an slayed launch (though I think it was a little too delayed). Granted, I think Nintendo needs to focus on reclaiming core gamers, the casual market clearly lost interest in them, so I'm not saying such a strategy is wise right now... I'm just think we should stop speculating what games a system should focus on when we don't know anything about the system yet. Unlike its competitors, Nintendo is very unpredictable with its hardware.
A directors cut for like 50 or 40 bucks? I'd buy that. Throw in like 5 or 8 new characters and stages as well, plus the dlc ones, and I would take it. Hey, maybe they could include the 3ds version stages too!
Sakurai-san has a lot of my respect for the way he explained his creative process in the development of the DLC for Smash Bros Wii U. I hope that whatever Nintendo does with the NX that he doesn't get shafted if he's moved to a less prominent role for the series. I think it needs him. Or at least needs his working ethics and seeming genius.
I had been saying this all along with the Wii U. They really should have had Mario Kart or Smash Bros ready as a launch title or soon after. The sidescrolling Mario platformers are good of course, but I just don't think they have the same kind of lasting impact that the other two do, it's not a system seller for most. The co-op action is a great advertisement too, that would help get those friends to buy their own system to play on.
@westman98
YES.
@westman98 I think this is spot on. Last gen the third parties didn't want to develop just for the Wii U, because the cost was too high to justify the expense. If the NX is multiple devices and one architecture, the appeal is much greater at a lower-power tier. So third party developers can spend eleventy million dollars making the next gen brownish "mature shooter" and release for three platforms (PC, PS4, and XB1), or they can do a smaller-scale project with good writing and art direction and release it on whatever number of NX platforms are out there, then port that to the big power consoles. The latter is cheaper development cost, larger number of gamers reached.
I suspect that even big studios are probably running up against the high money and time costs of developing these blockbuster titles, and might be keen to push out more focused projects where you don't necessarily need to sell millions upon million of copies to make money. Basically, I see the big studios trying out some of the indie space.
I think @ThomasBW84 's argument actually makes a lot of sense, since Sakurai already expressed his feeling that there isn't much to add to Smash Bros. anymore. So if he doesn't see the point in advancing the series, at least remaking it would be necessary.
Another thing about the NX, though:
Since Nintendo announced that it would merge its portable and home console developing platforms, most of us assume that the NX will be a hybrid device. I also assume that but I'm not sure if we just misunderstood them.
Anyway, if it's going to be a hybrid console, I imagine it like this (and I think it would sell a lot):
You have a home console unit, which is either sold with a portable unit that's much like a Wii U gamepad, only smaller, thinner and with a bigger screen, and also functions as a gamepad. The other option would be to buy the console without that portable unit, for a reduced price. But since that portable/gamepad would still be necessary for most games, you can either use the Wii U gamepad OR - and that could be a killer feature - you can use any tablet or smartphone as a controller (or as a portable Nintendo console). Nintendo could even produce a tablet/smartphone case (like other companies already have) that comes with the typical Nintendo buttons. With that - and a dedicated gaming app - you could use your smartphone/tablet for portable Nintendo gaming. Of course you would have to buy the games in the eshop and for those who don't want to buy the home console unit, there would be an option to buy the app, which serves as a platform/OS for portable Nintendo gaming.
I don't think this will happen, but including tablets and phones, which are already in the user's possession, could prove to be a key selling point (also because it makes the console cheaper).
@BLPs: So you got a crystal ball at home which can predict the future? What will the year 2030 be like?
@Artwark: That's because the handhelds always had a different target audience. We don't know if this will be the case for the next generation.
@bluedogrulez: Totally agree, I think that's the key point many people are missing. Why compete with PS4 gamers when you have potentially ~ 100 million Wii users who would need an incentive to sell their Wii and buy a Wii u instead? And I think they greatest mistake was actually marketing, because many Wii owners don't follow the news on tech and video gaming and therefore never found out that there is a successor.
@Grumblevolcano: Nobody said that they shouldn't do what you've written, but the remakes should accompany the main releases. Those two things aren't mutually exlusive.
Depending on continuing success of the current game and the release date of the NX, Splatoon might be another integral launch title for Nintendo.
I think Nintendo would do better with a HD remaster of Mario Kart 8 as an NX launch title rather than Smash Bros.
But seriously though... even if (yes, IF) there will be a Smash 5, it won't be coming out until 2020 or something...
@Sakura I would imagine so, considering it can appeal to a great amount of people and it has been very successful so far. Although that time Splatoon will most likely not utilize the drip feeding method with limited original content.
@BLPs I dunno, I'd say it's still rather early to say outright that the 'NX is not going to work.' What makes you think that? Not trying to be antagonistic by the way, just curious. Also, I didn't think you were an alcoholic, just a guy that enjoys a beverage; as I do myself. 😜
@AJ_Lethal I'm not saying you're wrong, since I'm also not sure if it will actually be a hybrid console. But I think you made an error in reasoning:
If it's a hybrid console, there will be no "different price/performance ratios", because it's a single hybrid platform. There can't be any differences anymore because for a difference you would need two platforms.
It means you buy it once but essentially you're getting two games, because you can play it at home or on the way. So I don't see why the pricing would be a problem. You pay only 50 or 60€ for two games instead of 90 or 100€. So this is a lot cheaper than buying them separately, like it is now. And don't forget that you also save the cost of buying two consoles, that's actually a lot (~200€) of money!
And regarding performance: Smartphones, Tablets and Convertibles already offer more performance than the Wii U has, so I don't really see the problem. You're forgetting that the 3DS (and the New 3DS, too) is - more or less - running on last-century hardware (dual-core with 266mhz, lol).
@earthboundlink
Thanks for agreeing.
I can just see the light bulb going off over TWs head.
What I want to know is, why didn't Nintendo use SSBU to sell the Wii U?
There was no holiday bundle for the release, we got MK8 instead. No bundle w/ the adaptor and an extra controller for 2 player. No "limited ed." Tournament bundle w/ game, adaptor and 4 controllers. No bundle w/ the fireball Mario amiibo even though SSBU is really the starting point for amiibo. No price drop to be more competitive w/ the other consoles. They hardly tried at all push the Wii U, even releasing the 3DS version months in advance. They were happy to sell the game, but not the system.
As for remasters, MK8 should have had one by now. The game launched w/o amiibo support or DLC. This past E3 would have been a great time to announce a Directors Cut w/ everything included out of the box, no downloads, w/ a picture of the amiibo on the box. Not a huge seller, just a nice addition for new Wii U owners. And a Pikmin 3 addition as well. Not quite a budget line, but a more bang for your buck line. NSMBU and Luigi levels for $60 could have rounded out the new line.
So what do I think the odds are Nintendo does something good for the NX launch?
Slim and none. How many people were waiting in line to buy tickets for a cruise on the Titanic 2? NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U. I'm not betting on catching lightning twice.
FYI Ouya was bought by Razor. Seems somehow relevant in light of some NX rumours.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/27/9046951/razer-buys-ouya-software-confirmation
@BLPs - Sonic?
@rjejr
Honestly, who would buy such a director's cut of MK8? I think no one would. Not only is it too early for that, I also don't see the market for that. Those people who like to have MK already have it.
But I also think that the Wii U would've been a greater success with MK, Smash and Splatoon as launch titles.
@shani Problems with the singular handheld-hybrid approach:
1) Will it use cartridges or discs (or both)?
2) What will the hardware specs be?
3) What will the price be?
Completely agree with both the fact that it draws in many types of gamers and the bit about the remaster. Honestly, by 2016 I'd probably be burnt out on Smash but a remaster with updated graphics and NX specific features (Ice Climbers cough) would grab my attention.
It definitely would flesh out the launch library. But this begs the question: will 3DS features like Smash Run and the branching path Classic Mode be in the game? Perhaps an option to choose between Classic Modes?
@BLPs:
@westman98: Now all of this is pure speculation, of course, but I'd say:
1) No cartridges, no discs (optical discs are unreliable and outdated). Only downloads! You could still buy a boxed retail copy with a download code, but ultimately, people should adapt to downloads-only. But if they fear a download-only business model, they could sell SD cards/proprietary flash memory. SD cards and USB sticks can already hold up to 128GB. But most games won't need that much space.
By the way, the 3DS already uses flash memory cards, those things aren't real cartridges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_game_card).
2) No one knows, but the specs of the main device should be better than the Wii U, of course. And the specs of the portable part should be on par with high-end smartphones/tablets (quadcore cpu, dedicated graphics card, maybe 4GB RAM?). But with an SSD! Or more precisely, with a faster and bigger flash memory than the Wii U has. I hate that the Wii U's menu is so slow and that loading sometimes takes really long.
3) I'd say 300€ would be fair. If you want to use your own tablet/phone, it's only 200€.
@shani - "Honestly, who would buy such a director's cut of MK8?"
Well by that reasoning, why are there copies of any game on the shelf at any retailer more than a month or 2 old? If people wanted a game they surely would have bought it w/ the first 2 months right, no game ever sells after 2 months? Or 3 months? Or 5 months? Last time I checked store shelves were still full of year old games. Not everybody buys day 1. 10mil Wii U, how many copies of the game sold, 2 mil? (I honestly have no idea, but 2 mil seems fair). So maybe another 8mil would be tempted now that they own a few amiibo to try out in the gsme.
" Not only is it too early for that"
Too early? The game came out last May, over a year. Many budget, direct cuts, and GOTY editions come out to mark the 1 year anniversary of games. Not on Nintendo consoles, but go check out the Sony line-up, more than a few over the years, 1 year after release. So basically this E3, after the 2nd DLC, would have been the perfect time.
@BLPs
Shouldn't you be getting back to the future marty mcfly? Lol but I agree. Everybody is saying they're doomed without even a hint at what the new console could possibly be. It's all based upon the wii u failure and "rumors", which is pretty much every other news story on here nowadays.
@rjejr: Yeah I know, but MK is special. It's not a game where people are unsure about buying it. You either want and buy it or you hate MK. So yeah, I don't think there is a market for a director's cut. Those who like playing MK (and already have a Wii U), have already bought it. Ask youself this question: How many people do you think have a Wii U and do NOT own MK8 already?
And just because Sony and other companies think one year is enough, it doesn't mean it is. They just try to milk their cash-cow. I think those Director's Cuts, GOTY etc are just a big thank you to all the people who bought the regular version just a year ago.
@DreamOn I know you're joking, but something along the lines of Super Puzzle Fighter would actually be awesome. Nintendo doesn't have a competitive puzzler like the Puyo series besides Dr. Mario, which only has so many nuances. A smash version of Puyo or Magical Drop could work wonders.
@westman98 Interesting idea. Would make for easy scaling too, so besides a downgrade in graphics, you would be able to have the same experience on the handheld and on the home console. Most engines and tools are scalable too nowadays, so if the NX architecture is developer-friendly then we might just see a completely different situation emerging for Nintendo...
I wish people would stop assuming things and thinking they can predict what Nintendo does. If anything, we've learned that Nintendo is very unpredictable.
@shani What I meant is that handhelds and consoles are constrained by a certain price/performance ratio: attempting to mix up both in a single device would pretty much result on a compromised price/performance ratio (you either end up with a really expensive (250+USD) handheld -which is pretty much suicide in this age- or you end up with an underpowered console -sure you can output to the TV, but it won't be at the level of the current consoles due processing and storage constraints-)
Bringing smartphones and tablets into a power argument is risible since those are replaced every single year becuase that market is very different from dedicated gaming systems hardware-wise.
@shani
1) If the platform support digital games only, then prepare for all major retailers to stop caring about the product. If GameStop and BestBuy can't get a small cut of the game's revenue (which only happens if the game is available physically), then why bother to support it. Nintendo has state that NX won't be a phone or tablet, so going digital only wouldn't work. Abandoning discs will result in a exodus of third party games that will make the Wii U's situation seem tame. Sure, creating a handheld/console hybrid will allow Nintendo to focus all their efforts on one single product, but they absolutely need third party support to survive.
2) If this product is less powerful than the PS4 and Xbox One, then negative public perception and the resulting lack of any support will kill the product on Day One. If the product is more powerful than the PS4 and Xbox One, but is also a singular handheld/console hybrid, then it will be WAY too expensive to succeed.
3) I'm American, so I use dollars. 300€ would imply $350, which would likely result in an underpowered product, assuming it wants to be a handheld/console hybrid. Also, I'm not sure having a smartphone or tablet will allow Nintendo to charge less for the product. Everyone has a smartphone and tablet, so does that mean everyone will only have to pay 200€ or $250? If so, Nintendo is definitely going to sell this product at a significant loss.
Of course, everything (or some of the things) you have stated could indeed to correct. We just don't know. I am just listing some issues with your propositions, that's all.
@TheRealThanos
I do think developers (especially the ones at Nintendo) should tweak their games, much like how Smash Bros 3DS and Wii U was done, so that the handheld and console versions of the game has some differences. The handheld and console experience should not be the "exact" same.
With that said, their will (and probably should) be some games that are the exact same across the handheld and the console, resolution aside of course.
The NX isnt dead. No one even knows what it is yet, so lets all chill da funk out. Until we know what the actual concept is, this is all a mute point. And as for Smash, If Sakurai isnt involved, I doubt it will meet our expectations. he doesnt want to work on Smash Bros any more. Let the man and the series take a break. Its one of my favorite games too, I have a settle it in smash! banner across my room, and an amiibo collection proudly displayed. But I can survive on the current iteration for much longer... I mean they havent even finished releasing the dlc yet and we are already talking about the next sequel?? Jeeze.
@shani @westman98 Here's how I've been thinking the hybrid would work:
The hardware specs will just be 2x Wii U w/ most of the innards moved to the Gamepad, as they go after the cost conscious consumer. Games will be sold on disc for the home portion, then DLd to the handheld part, which will probably be 480p and stereo sound. Even the biggest PS4 game down res'd to 480p and stereo would be relatively small. So it's basically a 3DS that attaches to the tv, or a Wii U for on the go. I think Nintendos big selling point will be 1 save point for both home and on the go. Also BC w/ the WiiU, b/c it will be a WiiU, just inside the Gamepad. Then they can sell the Gamepad separately for multiplayer, but that will be later, I'm still working out the deets. Also, the Gamepad will be shaped more square, like a 2DS, so we can play 2 screen on the go or at home. FYI that screen is just 1 screen, the software figures out how to divide it.
I also think they'll go after retro gamers w/ some type of PS+ program and that Rare 30 for $30 disc. Not sure how exactly, but VC games will be cheaper and more abundant.
AAA support isn't coming back, but the indies and toys to life crowd will love it. NX will be home to that space between free and 99c apps and $60 retail games. It should work.
Well the new system needs a name. Something ridiculous, like the Ultimate Nintendo Entertainment system. For me, they could release Smash, Kart, whatever at launch, I'd be very hesitant to purchase. The way they killed the N64, the cube, the Wii, and now Wii U, why would any of those previous customers trust them? They keep losing customers each generation, with the Wii being an exception. They need to earn trust at this point. I'm sorry, but I can only stomach so many platformers. Only so much Nintendo mascot themed games. Anyone saying they don't need EA, Ubisoft, or any of these 3rd parties is smoking something. No home console will survive without the yearly Madden, or NBA 2K, and even Assassins Creed at this point. And they need variety. What happened to Eternal Darkness? What happened to their rich back catalogue? They can't talk to Disney to give us Aladdin from back in the day? They can't talk to WWE and work out an online No Mercy? They can't come to an agreement with Microsoft about Goldeneye 64? Again, they have a ton of work to do.
@shani - "How many people do you think have a Wii U and do NOT own MK8 already?"
I already answered that, 8mil. Though I'm typing on my tablet so maybe that part was unreadble? Also many people who bought a Wii U for SSBU or Splatoon, and all the people who will be getting one this holiday for Skylanders amiibo edition. It's not just about 1 game. It's about marketing and advertising an entirely new line on retail shelves, MK8 is the marquee title but it needs the others as well, like NPC on Wii.
"think one year is enough, it doesn't mean it is. "
Considering how many games I've seen come out on Sony consoles after 1 year I'm guessing that's the right amount of time, if it weren't they would stop doing it. 1 year is long enough for DLC to be included but not so long that people are ready to moveat on to the next big thing. If they wait any longer for MK8 people who don't own it yet will just wait for MK9.
@rjejr
Sounds like the 3DS with a disk drive + HDMI box to play games on the TV...hmmm...interesting, to say the least...
@rjejr Mario Kart 8 has sold over 5 million. There's less than 10 million Wii Us out there. Well over 50% of Wii U owners bought the game. A GOTY edition of that game wouldn't have pushed the game much at all, especially considering Mario Kart 8 is an evergreen title.
@westman98 I agree, but for some games it will certainly be nice that you could pick up your handheld and continue where you left of when you were playing at home. A great concept for the holidays and so on.
@shani I don't think it will be a hybrid and I do indeed think that a lot of people are misinterpreting the little bit of info that has been given/leaked.
Mr. Iwata literally said that because of the new environment, the two (handheld and console) would be very much like brothers:
That sounds more like westman98's idea.
Here is the entire list of things we know about NX, along with some interesting theories on the what when and how.
https://nintendonx.wordpress.com/category/nintendo-quotes/
It is also where I got the quote from, although that interview with Mr. Iwata can also be found here on NLife and on just about every game and news site out there...
@rjejr How do you connect news of the Ouya's take over by Razer with Nintendo rumors? Because of the Android thing?
@TheRealThanos
Yeah I got my theory from that same quote. Thanks for posting it.
Unless something has dramatically changed from the time at which Iwata (RIP) made that statement to now, it appears NX will be a family of devices rather than just one single piece of hardware.
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U has not shifted Wii U sales in a significant way, specially when compared to previous entries. The only way Nintendo can be big again is releasing good hardware and good software again. It's that simple. NES, SNES and N64 were all amazing consoles. Nintendo 64 was not that popular because of the cartridges, and Gamecube was not that popular because PS2 games were so cheap and easy to hack. Nintendo has been making good hardware and software until recently. With the technically weak Wii they wowed people with the motion controls, they tried to double the success with the Wii U, but they disappointed almost everybody with its hardware and software.
In regards to the article, I fully agree. An "Ulitmate Edition" of Smash 4 that includes all of the DLC would be wise to have at the NX's launch or soon afterwards.
My reasoning for this is that Smash is a highly desirable game, but the next fully entry isn't set to release until around the end of the NX's lifespan, assuming it has the typical 5 year lifespan. For all we know, Smash 5 could be the NX's swansong and maybe even receive the Twilight Princess treatment. That's far too late, so a remaster of Smash 4 will give people something in the mean time.
@westman98 At first I thought it was going to be a hybrid too, with some kind of docking station to play at home, but after that exact quote from mr. Iwata I got around to your way of thinking, so I'm placing my bets on a scalable architecture now, until news arrives that shows me that I'm wrong...
I thought Smash Wii U was kinda disappointing, especially the 3DS version. I still enjoy the games but they felt WAY to similar to Brawl and I hope the next one changes things up a bit and brings better single player modes.
What's a Smash Bro?
@AJ_Lethal Are they? I don't really see it. Right now, the New 3DS costs 200€, while the Wii U costs little more, like 250-300€ (I bought mine on Amazon Warehouse Deals for 200€ more than a year ago). That's not a huge difference. And what is this "certain price/performance ratio" supposed to mean? I think they don't exist. Even if, then Nintendo would shake things up. Actually, you get way less performance for the price of the 3DS than you get for the price of the Wii U. So a hybrid console would actually increase such a price/performance ratio.
And you're also wrong about smartphones and tablets. First of all, not everyone buys a new model every year. Because it's totally unnecessary: Compare the Samsung Galaxy S4 or even the S3 (no fullHD) with the S6 and you won't find many differences that legitimate a buy.
Second of all, it doesn't matter if the models are replaced, because the platform stays the same. Every Android device (at least since Android 4) is basically capable of the same things, the only difference is how fast it is running.
So I really don't see you problem. Paying 250-300 for a device that replaces two other devices that right now cost you 450-500 combined isn't expensive at all. And why would the performance suffer because of this? I don't get it. 200-300 is a pretty usual price range for a Nintendo home console, so it shouldn't be a problem to reach a performance at PS4/Xbox One (both aren't that fast anyway) level in 2017. No need for compromises at all.
And you seem to forget that this wouldn't be a handheld for 250 but a hybrid for
I just came back from a regional Smash tournament that lasted for the entire weekend, and yes, the atmosphere is intoxicatingly fun. It always is, but far more so being through a serious event for it right there, in the flesh. And when you get lucky enough like me to have a regional scene with no fancy pants in it, the sense of bonding through healthy competition is very real, with both acquaintances or new people alike.
Basically what I'm getting at is that Smash Bros. is the epitome of the positive social gaming experience that Nintendo has been known to aim for, and if they play their cards right that's unlikely to change anytime soon.
@westman98
1) I don't see what digital games have to do with retailers? They would still get their cut. We don't have Bestbuy here in Europe, but Gamestop has a website were you can order things online. MMOGA even sells Wii U keys (to be activated in the eshop) and they are cheaper than buying the game on the eshop. Also, Steam is the best proof that digital games work pretty well. Holding on to discs would be an act of pure nostalgia and total nonsense. They're slow and not reliable in the long term. And Nintendo doesn't need third party support to survive, as they have "billions of dollars in the bank", to quote Tom's article.
2) Wrong, Nintendo consoles never were about computing power but about innovation. But I don't see why it shouldn't be on par with PS4 in 2017. The PS4 is outdated right now, in two years it will be from the stone age.
3) Why do you think it would be underpowered? 300/350 is a pretty usual price (right at launch: Wii, Wii U), but 200/250 is also not far fetched, it's what you pay for a Wii U right now and even more than the Wii costs after several years.
Of course they could charge less if you use your own tablet, because Nintendo would save the costs of the future gamepad/portable. A dedicated computing unit, an HD screen and a powerful battery would probably cost a lot, so maybe the discount would even be 150. But the official Nintendo gamepad/portable would be superior to any smartphone/tablet because of its design, being specially made for that purpose. So I for one would opt for the option with the Nintendo portable part instead of using my 4" phone (which is too small anyway).
Anyway, Nintendo - or namely, Iwata - always stated that software sells hardware, not the other way around. So it's pretty normal for Nintendo (and Sony and MS, too) to make a loss with their console. I'd say that's a given. They make their money through selling games.
I'm not even sure if it will come like I described it, it's just a possibility and could be totally wrong. Nintendo is always able to surprise us.
@TheRealThanos
Yep that's also my approach regarding NX speculation. Nothing is out there suggesting NX will be a singular handheld/console hybrid...Also, this image from Nintendo's Mobile Game Announcement Shareholders Meeting says a lot:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/img/23l.jpg
@rjejr Oh yeah, I overlooked that part with the sales figures. But your estimation was way off, actually. Just did a quick google search because I was sure they sold a lot more copies of MK8. What I found out is this: On October 31st 2014, already half of the Wii U owners owned MK8. Also, as of May 2015, MK8 already has sold 5 millions times and counting. So maybe we were both wrong: there are are still people wanting to buy MK (I thought there weren't anymore), but not as many as you thought and they are actually still buying that game.
These are the two sources I'm relating to:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/31/7133147/mario-kart-8-sales-wii-u-owners-attach-rate-half
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/05/mario_kart_8_passes_five_million_sales_and_eshop_download_numbers_continue_to_rise
Still I think the way Sony is approaching wouldn't work with Nintendo. It's just a completely different (and bigger) audience, not everyone is "dumb" enough (sorry for using that term) to be fooled by a GOTY or DC edition. And I think Nintendo's must-buy-titles like MK8 and Smash already sell themselves pretty good, they don't need more marketing.
Apart from that, your depiction of the NX would be imaginable. But I think the gamepad/portable screen would at least have to be 720p. AFAIK the Wii U gamepad already has 480p and the looks are improvable. Also, since the screen would have to be a lot bigger (the Wii U gamepad's screen is to small in my opinion), 720p would be the absolute minimum, rather it should be 1080p. We're talking about 2017, after all.
@TheRealThanos Yeah I know, as I stated above I'm not even sure it will be a hybrid. Everyone is assuming this because of the mutual developing platform for home and portable gaming, but it could be wrong. Nintendo never actually announced anything that definitely hints on a hybrid. Still, a hybrid console would totally make sense to me. Up to today, I never bought a 3DS although I'm heavily interested in it. But I just see it as inferior to my Wii U, so I don't buy it. A hybrid console could have a lot of benefits (like saving buying costs, carrying savegames over, integrating smartphones and tablets) if done right.
I really don't think an "upgraded" version is needed for SSB. Sure, an "ultimate edition" with a bunch of DLC included could be a great sell, but I think they should just continue supporting the Wii U version on the NX with continuous DLC. There's not as much of a need for a new version any longer when they could simply continue producing new content for the current one.
@MisterMan that's a single contestant aka the singular of Smash Bros...
@rjejr A "Directors cut" for MK8 would've only really worked if the 2nd DLC pack was the definite last DLC. I mean look at all those GotY editions, they have all the content even the Arkham games. But that isn't so clear cut, why would Nintendo be showing off Mario Kart 8 at Gamescom if no new content was coming and the last piece of content released over 3 months ago? I may be wrong but I think more content will be announced before August 6th.
@Grumblevolcano I hope so, I'm still waiting for a Double-Dash-DLC and I know at least one other person who does so, too. Also, an all-F-Zero-DLC would be awesome!
@shani
"And what is this "certain price/performance ratio" supposed to mean? I think they don't exist"
It does exist. It's basically "how much does cost to make/buy : how fast it is compared to it's competitors at the time of release". You want to keep it as low as possible.
"So a hybrid console would actually increase such a price/performance ratio."
You don't know what "ratio" means, do you?
"First of all, not everyone buys a new model every year."
You understimate how naive regular people are. Especially Apple/Samsung fans.
"Paying 250-300 for a device that replaces two other devices that right now cost you 450-500 combined isn't expensive at all."
'Jack of all trades, master of none', pal. I already explained the reasons.
@westman98
That pretty much kills the hybrid idea dead.
@shani Well, I don't know if "everyone" is assuming this. A hybrid device would be something that incorporates a handheld as well as a home console (obviously) and that is not at all what the info that we do have (and Mr. Iwata's comment) points to. It is the exact opposite of an architecture that makes a home console and handheld "like brothers". That would be more like mother and child, the latter being the handheld and the connecting device for the TV (docking station?) being the mother.
Nope, I'm sticking with the scalable architecture until more concrete evidence to the contrary arrives.
If it does, I'm a big enough man to acknowledge that I was wrong. But until then, that's the idea that I'm going for.
I could see a version of SSB that included all of the DLC, and maybe all of the levels from both the Wii U and 3DS games, coming to the NX. It wouldn't be a remake so much as a "Greatest Hits" kind of thing, and it wouldn't be unlike Nintendo's recent decision to do pretty much the same thing with Hyrule Warriors on the 3DS (actually, Hyrule Warriors Ultra on the NX would be pretty cool too).
Aside from such "Ultimate" versions, I'd much prefer if Nintendo looked further back for games to remake. I'm still rooting for Mario Sunshine HD.
And as for Animal Crossing, the only way it will come to the NX early is if it skips the Wii U, or comes to both as one game. If Animal Crossing U came out in the the next two years, as it would have to, it would be too soon to release a new Animal Crossing on the NX in its first year. That said, and as much as I'd love a new Animal Crossing on the Wii U, the idea of Animal Crossing being a launch game for the NX does sound pretty great.
@shani P.S. Don't let it being "inferior" to the Wii U hold you back. If you have the money, I can definitely recommend the 3DS to any avid gamer. There are many great games and some awesome conversions (such as Smash Bros or Street Fighter), that rival the console versions, albeit with lesser graphics. But honestly, after a few minutes of actually playing them you won't even notice anymore, so maybe you should try it out before forming a decisive opinion on skipping this awesome handheld.
I wasn't an early adopter either, but I'm truly glad that I did decide to buy one in the end. I'm sure a lot of other people on here are more than willing to share their positive experiences with the 3DS with you, which may help you make a decision that works for you. I would also be more than happy to answer any questions you might have about it.
kind of doubt the hybrid model for the NX, it would kind of be a "up yours" to those who have a New 3ds. But i think it will have solid connectivity with the New 3ds and tablets/phones with parts of home games being playable on them, I hope it will be backwards compatible with WiiU games and the gamepad but alternatively you could use the New 3ds screen instead.
Complete collections of Smash & MK8 would be a good idea for launch titles if they also have Zelda and Mario Galaxy 3 plus maybe some sort of collection bundle (say Modern Warfare 1, 2 & 3 + all DLC) as an exclusive
@TheRealThanos Actually I'm on the same page as you on this. I don't see any evidence for a hybrid device (yet), it's more wishful thinking.
@AJ_Lethal Ah so you meant the developing cost? I thought you were talking about the retail price.
But with that in mind, my point still stands: The 3DS's computing unit is more than 10 times slower than a two-year-old smartphone, so it actually has a really bad price/performance ratio. Now if Nintendo would develop a hybrid console with the computing power of a PS4 (or just below that), the ratio would vastly increase. And it would still not cost more since we're talking about outdated hardware.
And of course I understand the meaning of ratio (at least in english, in latin it would mean reason/rationality). Nevertheless, I don't see why Nintendo would be constrained to such a ratio, as I mentioned above they could just shake things up. But your point still doesn't make sense to me. Why would Nintendo need to compromise? No need to mix something up. You'd basically get a home console with the usual computing power as always (so no compromise here), but with the added ability to use it on the way (no here compromise either, since it would definitely have more performance than the 3DS). They bascially would'nt need to do more than insert last-gen smartphone tech into the Wii U gamepad and here you go. In 2017, this shouldn't be really expensive, so they could hold the current Wii U premium price of 300€.
I think the mistake you are making is, you're still viewing it either as an expensive handheld or underpowered home console. But it would be neither of those. It would be a hybrid. But a hybrid doesn't always mean that you have to compromise. It can actually mean an improvement of both things at the same time.
Yeah, regular people are naive. But I don't think there is a big overlap with Nintendo users. But even if so, it wouldn't matter. As I mentioned above, what makes the Android platform so powerful, is that it's universal in its own sense and that's something Google actually emphasized a lot. You can run every app on every Android device with Android 4 or higher and you won't notice any difference. So people can buy new smartphones and tablets all they want, it wouldn't affect their gaming experience.
And why would 250USD be too much for a handheld? The New 3DS XL is being sold for 190€ right now, so a few more euros/dollars wouldn't make a huge difference. And we're still talking about a console that replaces two other consoles. I would even pay 400€ for that.
@TheRealThanos
No I know, there are lots of 3DS games that I would like to enjoy. But I don't see me using that console much. And why would I? I can play on my Wii U on a large screen (projector) with HD graphics and huge levels/worlds. Also, looking down on the small screen for hours gives me neck pain (already experienced that with the Wii U gamepad).
I'm thinking about buying a used 3DS for a long time now, only because of the games that were exclusive to it. But I just fear the 3DS would rot in my room, without being used, and eventually I would sell it due to not using it.
But if Nintendo were to sell a device similar to the Supergameboy for the SNES, buying a 3DS would become a viable option. But instead i'm just hoping for a hybrid console, so I don't have to buy two consoles, which would feel redundant anyway.
@Grumblevolcano - Well if there is more DLC I agree w/ you. Unless the "new content" is just more amiibo skins, I don't think every amiibo is currently supported in that game. I wonder what MK8 would look like in 8 bit? If it is another "track pack' thats out soon they could have still announced an MK8 defintive edtion game for the holidays that included those tracks.
Maybe they'll let the new Skylanders amiibo DK kart work in MK8? Can't imagine Actitivison does those amiibo w/o a little quid pro quo. And I really like the DK kart, even the dark version. You now they haven't even shown Skylanders Racers on Wii and 3DS yet, may be there will be more of a cross over w/ those figures?
@TheRealThanos - And Bingo was his name-O
Super Smash Bro's X!
@shani That is just the point: the non-HD graphics don't matter once you start to play and enjoy the system. Unless you're a graphics whore of course...
The system has many great games in it's library, also some with very large worlds or stories (like Fire Emblem), and some of them even add to your Wii U experience (and the other way around) with interchangeable options between titles such as Monster Hunter and also Smash Bros and there are probably a few more.
But obviously it also depends on your taste in games, so like I said before: don't hesitate to ask me anything, or maybe go to a (second hand) game shop and try some games for yourself...
Graphics are no excuse to not buy this handheld. It's all about the gameplay and having fun. A handheld will most of the time not be on par with a home console graphics wise (although the Vita came close. But look where it ended up, so apparently that is not the most important thing then, right?) so you also shouldn't judge it based on graphics alone.
And obviously a handheld is easier to take with you if you go on a trip or something.
@rjejr and here I was thinking you had christened me Magnum...
But seriously, some more elaboration on the similarities would certainly interest me, so...
@shani
"I think the mistake you are making is, you're still viewing it either as an expensive handheld or underpowered home console. But it would be neither of those. It would be a hybrid. But a hybrid doesn't always mean that you have to compromise. It can actually mean an improvement of both things at the same time."
Because in the real world it is compromised. I don't deny the appeal of such device but in practical terms it has to sacrifice either price, performance or even size. And your dream device already exists: it's called the nVidia Shield. It's a damn fine piece of hardware, no doubt but it was too expensive (first at 350USD, then slashed to 299), it was bulky and with no exclusive games it didn't even put up a fight with the 3DS and even the Vita; in fact nVidia had to expand the lineup to stand a chance (Shield Tablet and Shield Android TV)
@TheRealThanos I usually don't care that much about graphics, so my thoughts about "inferiority" weren't so much targeted at the graphics, but the general gaming experience (I'd like to take Super Mario 3D Land/World's narrow levels as a good example, if you compare it with Mario Galaxy).
But thanks for offering your advice, I may come back at it, since there are some games that I'd like to play on it.
In the not so near past, I haven't been traveling that much (in the distant past, that was different), so I never was sure if I would really use the 3DS. But that could be about to change, I'm even thinking about buying a convertible to have Windows everywhere.
@AJ_Lethal Yeah I know, usually you have to make some compromises for this sort of thing. And they probably would have to do some for a hybrid console, too. But I could imagine they could manage to do it in a way that the compromises won't be that bad at all. Still this is all speculation/wishful thinking, of course.
Yeah the nvidia shield was actually quite interesting at the beginning, but if I remember correctly, battery life wasn't so good and also, it lacks interesting games for me (I got a gaming PC and a Wii U). Plus I think the design of the case is really terrible.
I sold my New Nintendo 3DS in anticipation of NX.
Me: "Please do not disappoint."
Nintendo: "Please Understand."
The first 6 months of the NX will be crucial for its long term success. The Wii U didn't have any big names at launch and it took a year for the first true AAA title (SMW3D) to come out. Then AAA titles slowly leaked out with months in between. The Wii U wasn't marketed well and it took almost 2 years after launch before we saw a roster of games like Mario Kart, Smash, 3D World etc. While I am sad that my Wii U will be skipped over for some key franchises, I hope they will be front and centre for the NX. If the NX came out at holiday 2016, I would hope by summer 2017 there would be a new Metroid, Zelda, Animal Crossing and Mario game. Nintendo has to have a mix of AAA games and solid third party titles for the first 6 months of launch. IF not, the NX will follow the Wii U and Nintendo will be the 3 little brother for good.
I love speculating dreaming about Nintendo's next console (or not?) effort but I think I'm done until the next tidbit of actual information or at least a solid rumor comes up.
As far as the eSports and competitive play angle goes Nintendo has an in and should leverage it for sure. Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Splatoon and even Mario Maker are poised for leveraging this already.
It's a significant reason my dream of super-interoperability between a new console and a new handheld sticks with me. It fits certain parts of Nintendo very well.
I agree that they very well may more or less port the existing Smash to NX, rather than make an entirely new one.
They're doing so much to maintain and extend longevity of the current title. It'd sure seem like a waste to make a whole new one from scratch. More characters, more stages, more enhancement.
@TheRealThanos - Basically I had to mention the Ouya story in relation to NX as I started this thread way back when, and update it whenever a new set top box releases. This was back before this site became so angry, it's actually 5 pages of disagreements and discussions rather than name calling.
https://www.nintendolife.com/forums/wii-u/amazon_fire_tv_new_wii_u_competition
If Nintendo is going the 3rd pillar cheap route w/ NX and it's Android based, and it plays Android games like Candy Crush, then NX may actually become more of a threat to set top boxes than any set top boxes have ever been a threat to Wii U. Nintendo has always been Wii U's biggest threat, w/ friends like Reggie who needs enemies?
I've thought about this before and I really like it. I'm so okay with it! I love the gameplay and mechanics of this latest Smash and actually want it to stay for a long time. So yeah, give it a makeover and add in some new characters and I'll give you all of my money.
@rjejr I hate to break it to you, or point it out to you when someone else did, but MK8 already sold more than 5.11 million copies.
This was without a competitively-priced bundle. (3D World and NSMBU/NSLU had them, and actually shipped less life-to-date. Same goes for Nintendo Land despite being bundled in nearly every Wii U nowadays.)
@shani Oops, didn't see that.
OT: I don't care, just reel in the niche Japanese devs that keep the Vita alive.
Call it the NEPtune, or something, so you could reel Idea Factory in! That's one publisher down.
And, yes, I'm aware that it may spell out Nintendo Entertainment Platform.
Oh I hope the NX will have a "Definitive Edition" version of Sm4sh around launch, especially if it is the console/handheld hybrid that it has been heavily rumored to be. It just makes sense to me.
As much as I love Smash Bros, I think the next sequel needs to make some radical changes to its core gameplay in order to avoid franchise fatigue.
Of course, the next game can easily use whatever innovative new hardware NX has - but on a basic gameplay level, I just can't see it being yet another 2D fighter/party game.
Sakurai and Nintendo cannot be afraid to change things up at the risk of pissing-off the fanbase. They can (and likely will) cry and moan all they want, but Smash Bros needs to evolve in order to stay fresh.
What those changes would actually be, I have no idea - but I do remember an Iwata Asks interview where he and Sakurai talked about how the multiplayer for Kid Icarus: Uprising could serve as a foundation for a future Smash title; so maybe the series could go 3D ala Power Stone?
Overatted series! Smash Wii U was even more disappointing than Brawl (which at least had the pretty sweet Subspace Embassy single player mode)
I hate to be negative, but I've had this damn game shoved down my throat for the last few years so I'm going to speak my mind!!
The next Smash will probably be a free to play game where you pay for individual characters. Mwhahahaha!!
The more I think about it, the more I think Nintendo should not release a new home console so early. I think it would be a much better idea if they focused on the Wii U and give a full life span, while improving their current situation.
Ahh, the old speculation game again.
@Kage_88 There's not much you can do to push Smash Bros, or any fighter for that matter. Mortal Kombat X and USFIV, and most likely Street Fighter V, don't vastly differ from their predecessors, and for good reason.
People aren't looking for evolution in fighters. They want fine-tuning of the mechanics, balancing, advanced techniques, and of course, the fighters themselves.
"Super Smash Bros. for NX", featuring a digital upgrade discount, and new story mode.
Sell me, Nintendo.
@Ichiban You must be a tough sell. SSB4 was worth the wait. Easy to pick up but difficult to master. A massive roster with diverse fighter's that cater to different play style's. Great looking levels with fun familiar theme's. This series has so much fan service i don't know how anyone could dislike it.
@Aromaiden I've always been of that view in which at the Wii U successor shouldn't be released until November 2017 at the earliest but the past few months have me doubt there being even a small chance of that happening. November 2016 at the latest seems most likely.
@Superryanworld I liked it at first (n64) loved it the second time (melee). Since then its just felt like the same game with a few new characters. I was bored of the Wii U version in 40 minutes! I do enjoy the remixes of classic Nintendo tunes throughout the game though.
@Aromaiden I was hoping for the same scenario.
@Ichiban I get where you're coming from.
I can't see a new Smash bros being developed anytime soon - if at all. I firmly believe the Wii U and 3DS versions are the last. Just because they run Sakurai ragged.
However, knowing that, I also firmly believe a smart move by NIntendo would be to ensure ALL Smash bros versions (minus the 3DS version, I guess?) are on the NX. Think about it for a moment.
Smash 64 = Nostalgia fans.
Melee = Competitive fans.
Brawl = In between-er fans.
Wii U = Next Gen fans.
As you can see from my bad naming skills, having all four versions from the beginning to the end would cover absolutely ALL bases. It wouldn't divide the Smash community like it has - it would bring them all closer. Under one single console experience. Being able to switch between versions on the fly and play how you want, when you want? The system that's lucky enough to feature those gems would fly off the shelves at retail. It's not like it's not possible and it saves Sakurai having to put more effort into a new iteration.
I honestly can't see any negatives with this.
Ultra Smash Bros 4 Turbo. It will include a Melee mode with wavedashes, L-cancels and stuff so we'll get two different formats to play.
@Grumblevolcano
Seeing how there aren't too many Wii U titles coming next year (Shin megami tensei x fire emblem and Zelda, that's it I guess) November 2016 seems the most likely to be the time for NX´s release. Past Nintendo consoles have had this before, almost no new games before the new console launches.
No matter what Nintendo do with Smash, it will not bring in the additional customers that the NX will badly need.
Nintendo's problems are far more complex and won't be fixed with HD remakes on the NX, although one or two would be welcome. Plus I agree with @Ichiban, Smash does feel like it's been shoved down our throats.
@Luffymcduck - Basically 'Project B'
Meh. I love smash but it went downhill after Melee. Doubt I'd buy the next entry if it's anything like 4 (Try as I might I can't for the life of me enjoy this game due to anemic and restrictive game mechanics). Doubt it would save the NX. Unless it has powerful hardware, great third party and it's up to date with online standards, the NX is as good as dead. That's what the Wii U should've been. If there is anything to learn from the Wii U, one big title isn't going to save it. You need all the big nukes ready at launch plus third party nukes.
Ugh. Good business decision? Sure. But I don't like the game and I'm sick enough of hearing about it to the point of loathing.
Not going to happen nor should it happen
@TheWPCTraveler - "but MK8 already sold more than 5.11 million copies."
Seriously? Wow, 50% install base is pretty kickbutt. Still leaves another 5mil to buy the Definitive Edition though.
I could see a GOTY remaster of Smash, but that would be a new phenomenon for Nintendo, though definitely not new to the industry. I doubt we could possibly see a new Smash so soon. What about Nintendo Kart? Clearly we want Mario Kart, but with the Smash Bros trappings. I know id be excited for such a thing myself
The only way I could see them doing it is to have Smash 4 upscaled with new modes and content but have it be a launch title with characters as dlc every few months like how street fighter 5 or killer instinct are doing it. Do monthly tournaments that give you unique prizes on the new account system and finally do costumes for actual characters. That way Sakurai could work on other projects and get a trusted team go consult him in characters I believe it would generate great income for nintendo.
Also an amiibo game made by platinum would entice many people.
@IceClimbers But Smash Bros isn't just a fighting game - it's also a party title, designed for casual players. Sakurai designed the series to be different from traditional fighters like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat.
Like it's other games, Nintendo has never let the protestations of 'fans' get in the way of doing new things. If it were up to the hardcore fighting game community, the Smash series wouldn't have evolved beyond Melee. Hell, they still whined that Smash Wii U originally wasn't going to use the near 15 year old GCN controller - and Nintendo was forced to release an ugly peripheral just to placate them.
A series can only go so far by doing the same thing over and over. Exclusively catering to a hardcore minority isn't Nintendo's style - they want as much people as possible to play their games, and Sakurai himself lives by the design philosophy of disrupting conventional norms. Heck, Smash wouldn't have existed in the first place if not for this mindset.
People have blasted Nintendo for sticking to their guns with Metroid: Federation Force, and that the company has somehow insulted them by insinuating that the fans don't know what they want. You know what? Most of the time, it's true; hardcore fans don't know what they want - they are conditioned to stick with what's familiar, and condemn anything that's new. That is, until they try said new thing, and then that becomes the norm. It's human nature - and any perceived arrogance on Nintendo's part is validated by 126 years of successful business.
IF the NX is backwards compatible with Wii U (which it may not be, but I hope they continue their mostly excellent BC support going forward), I wonder if being able to play the Wii U Smash would help or hurt this Remaster idea.
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...