Remember Ninja Pig's Meme Run? The game hit the Wii U eShop recently and caused quite a stir, not only for its pretty terrible quality but also because it apparently used the popular "Trollface" Meme without the permission of the original creator. The end result was that the game was removed from the eShop, and remains out of circulation - possibly forever.
The man who created Trollface - 24-year-old Carlos Ramirez - has spoken a little more about the whole matter. Talking to Kotaku, Ramirez explains that he's happy for people to use his art online, but Meme Run was different:
People message me. "Hey, look, your trollface was used here! You oughta sue these guys" I just say 'Okay, I'll look at it.' And I look at it. If it's a really minor thing, I can't be bothered with it. It'll take too much time, and let people have their fun. If they're not making any significant money on it, it's like, eh, not a big deal. If you're publishing a game on a major platform and it's using my image, it's kind of hard to ignore. It's really troublesome when you're making a game comprised entirely of memes. It's a big problem of copyright infringement, all across the board, and I guess I was the only one with enough time to go out of my way and shake it down.
Ninja Pig's Jordan Schuetz has also spoken to Kotaku to give his version of events:
When developing Meme Run, some art assets were taken from content hosted on royalty free image websites like Open Game Art. The others I created myself in Photoshop. [...] It is uncertain if the game will ever return despite petitions that fans are currently circulating requesting the game be reinstated. The appropriate protocol to remove the game was followed.
(Kotaku notes that Trollface doesn't appear to be on the Open Game Art website, a royalty-free database of images.)
So the game is taken down, and everyone's happy, right? Wrong. Ramirez - who created Trollface as part of a what he believed to be a harmless comic when he was 18 - registered the art with the U.S. Copyright Office in 2010. That means he is able to legally enforce his ownership of Trollface, and is estimated to have earned $100,000 (£67,463) in fees and settlements since then, including a deal with Hollywood movie star Adam Sandler. Meme Run was a commercial venture designed to generate money, and Ramirez feels he's entitled to some of the cash that it made during its short time on the eShop.
However, when Ramirez broached this subject with Schuetz, he was told that the game made no cash. According to Ramirez, this isn't true - Meme Run topped the Wii U eShop charts and anecdotal evidence taken from WaraWara Plaza suggested that plenty of people were playing the game.
Schuetz told Kotaku:
Carlos' figures are completely abstract and erroneous. I'm not able to share exact or even ballpark figures to anyone due to the non-disclosure agreement that every developer signs with Nintendo. I am obligated to comply with the rules of engagement and confidentiality section of the contract that I signed in order to develop games for the Wii U platform.
Ramirez has apparently spoken to people close to Schuetz who claim that he has been saying that Meme Run will help fund his education - something that Schuetz doesn't appear to deny:
I've been developing games since I was 16-years-old. The revenue I've earned over the years from all my games goes to my university to fund my education.
Despite the non-disclosure agreement that exists between Schuetz and Nintendo, Ramirez wants answers. He wants to know how many copies the game has sold, how much revenue it has generated for Schuetz and whether or not Nintendo was aware of the game's possible copyright violation - all of which will be vital should legal proceedings move to the next step.
Ramirez is quite prepared to go to court to defend his copyright, and at the moment he fears that Schuetz - who is relatively young, lest we forget - is unaware of the seriousness of the situation:
He's probably the least mature person I've ever dealt with, if I will be frank. That's a difficulty. I don't think he knows what the consequences of ignoring me are. That's just annoying. It's going to slow down the whole process. He's going to be like 'Oh, you want to sue me? Go ahead!' And then we're going to have to spend weeks drafting this thing, writing to the courts, and then he'll be like 'Oh, f***. He's serious. S***! I should probably listen.'
The irony of all of this is that had Ninja Pig merely asked for Ramirez's permission, he says he would have given it gladly. He sees Trollface's appearance in the game as positive for his brand, and "good for business".
All of this raises questions about how wise it is of Nintendo to open the floodgates to indies on the eShop; once upon on a time, Nintendo would have been cautious about allowing any content which could offend or infringe copyright, but now the rules appear to have changed - and that means that naive and relatively inexperienced developers like Schuetz can blindly stumble into serious legal problems. Ninja Pig has also gotten into hot water over the use of "stolen" art in another of its games, Jumpy Cat.
For Ramirez, he's just trying to get what he feels he is entitled to - but he's aware that although he created Trollface and owns the (admittedly profitable) copyright, the character has taken on a life of its own:
People will completely forget that I made it, and I think that's cool. That doesn't bother me at all.
What does bother him is people using it without paying the price, it would seem. We'll keep you updated should this story develop further.
Thanks to Benson for the tip!
[source kotaku.co.uk]
Comments 78
So profiting off of the face of Moot, who used to own 4chan.
Wheres the logic...
At least now we know why it was pulled from the e-shop and can put to rest all the Illuminati conspiracy theories going around... or can we?
He's just trolling.
He should troll the YouTube celebrities as well for those who used trollface in their videos and claim royalties.
Somehow I don't think the non-disclosure agreement covers number of downloads. Earning also would not be covers otherwise publicly traded companies would not be able to disclose their financial results. I hope he doesn't try that non-disclosure agreement argument when it comes time to file his taxes.
I do believe he may not have earned anything yet if he did not meet the minimum download threshold before it was removed. That should be easy to prove.
He's just trying to spend the money on his education. It's pretty obvious that he really needs the education.
@Rob_mc_1 There is no minimum threshold anymore. Nintendo changed the policy around the launch of the Wii U. So any sales mean money. Whether that transfers into profit for the developer is another matter entirely.
Easy fix, I drew a troll with no effort in a few seconds so don't care if he uses it. I call him the copyright-free troll.
Every news about Ninja Pig reminds me how much I love porchetta. We all deserve a slice of it!
He mad bro!
@andreoni79 so that's what babe is doing these days.
Best comment on this subject is the meme itself
Oh this will be easy to solve, just change the face to something else and update the game to avoid the copyright claims. But seriously this should be common practise for anyone hoping to release games on established platforms owned by the likes of Nintendo, he will be blacklisted by other publishers now this regardless of whether or not it goes to court.
It's really funny how Ramirez basically follows the point of his creation and trolls the ever-living hell out of Schuetz! And while he makes it sound like a regular claim, I'm pretty sure he's this persistent because Schuetz is constantly acting like he's beyond things.
@CreativeWelshman If it only was that easy. Ninja Pig Studios made money during the time span Trollface was the main character in Meme Run, which means he profiteered from it already. Changing the face now won't change that, so the claims still hold true.
@Kaze_Memaryu
I meant that by changing the face he sell the game again and able to pay the legal fees in the process, also changing something that small will not be that hard to do as all you would have to do is just replace the existing assets with the new ones. This will not break the game and it won't take more than a week or 2 to do.
Not my problem :trollface:
@CreativeWelshman I guess that would work, but he's to stubborn to do so.
I'd state that this whole affair is rather dumb - though well within the confines of the law.
Still dumb nonetheless.
I still can't believe this is an approved game at one point... But I'm on the side of Ramirez, it's his art in the first place anyway so it's his right for the claim.
Wait......Meme Run had earnings?
Serves Ninja Pig right for such a cheap effort at a game
Although he's in an appropriate legal position to pursue this matter, I find it excessively greedy of Ramírez. That game can't possibly have made that much money and it's been taken down for good, which means no additional profit coming from it anymore. At this point he's just scrapping for some easy, scarce cash, really. I'd honestly laugh if the amount he had to spend on a lawyer and the necessary legal proceedings was far more than what he can actually get off Schuetz. Now that'd be a trollface-worthy event.
@LinkSword If he wins the case, all legal costs will be for the losing party, so no problem there. Also, I think it's more lame to steal other people's ''art''-assets because apparently you're not skilled enough to create your own, than it is to rightfully sue someone for using these assets.
I never knew (some) memes were owned by people. I think this whole thing is kinda silly. Also, that meme run game still looks awful
@andreoni79
Lechon > Porchetta
Good on him. It's good that he's only claimed a total of $100k and not taken people to court for millions, but just asked for a small settlement that most are happy to pay. And, he's ignored most small earning infringements. Ramirez has my respect.
"Immature" is definitely the right word to use with Ninja Pig Studios. It started as a polite request to give credit where credit is due, no money involved at all, but Schuetz kept going "lol I dunno wut ur talkin about" until it spiraled into this.
Schuetz plagiarizes for EVERYTHING that he does. "IQ Test" is a total ripoff of a free mobile game called "The Moron Test", down to the backgrounds and rubber duck motif. "Jumpy Cat", you know why that was cancelled? When contacted by the guy whose sprites he stole, he was STUPID enough to flat-out LIE TO HIS FACE about where he got them.
Schuetz should be blacklisted from the eShop. Plain and simple.
Oh, Ninja Pig! Yeah, you, uh...you kinda had it coming...
@Monkeh No argument there, Schuetz out-lames everything and everyone in this conflict. I still find it a waste of time and resources to further legally pursue him. Personally I'd have been satisfied with the game being taken off the eShop. At this point it seems more about Ramírez trying to prove himself right to an entitled kid rather than any actual benefit.
I have to admit, reading about this squabble has become a guilty pleasure of mine.
while i didnt know the memes had and official artist or can be traced back to a original creator this whole thing is rather stupid but does prove a point if you ever do you someone else's for a profile pic or then i think it should be ok like he said but once you plan to make money of it or call it your own then you should get fined and told to knock it off!
weird enough this happens on miiverse in the AA community when people are posting those pictures of the cat or the flower and calling it their own it soo stupid and almost insulting but what ever
@LinkSword: And I think trying to prove himself right to that spoiled brat is the right move here. Shuetz needs a cold, sharp glass of reality thrown in his face or else he's just going to keep doing this.
(He's already trying again. He made a Verified Post on Miiverse saying he's making a game called "Attack of the Memes". So yeah, he hasn't learned a damn thing yet.)
"I don’t think he knows what the consequences of ignoring me are" - Ramirez
"When developing Meme Run, some art assets were taken from content hosted on royalty free image websites like Open Game Art." - given his past behaviour I would't believe this if his tongue was notarised.
@LinkSword I don't remember my media law completely as it's been a number of years, but I think Ramirez has to keep up with these, even if it's just getting retrospective permission, or he'll lose his trademark.
I think.
Cobra has the right idea love it lol!
Does this Schuetz person like shooting himself in the foot or something?
This article is full of surprises. Something like troll face is really copyright, it made $100,000 est. since 2010 and have a Hollywood deal, fans having petition to have the game reinstated, meme run making no cash, well that one is more of a straight lie the a surprise unfortunately. Crazy morning.
I just hope this doesn't cause Nintendo to rethink their policy on Indie games. I know developers and gamers alike don't want to go back to the wii ware era of restrictions for "quality" control.
Sounds like trollface meme creator guy needs to call Saul....
"I don’t think he knows what the consequences of ignoring me are"
What'll you do? Shine your Trollface badge at the guy?
@Mus1cLov3r I think he means that the lawsuit will actually happen and Schuetz will have to actually grow up and pay attention for once.
I'm happy he's suing this guy. This game is garbage and a big finger to the game industry. This should never have passed the Nintendo quality assurance checklist, and I'm kind of stocked we're still talking about this. this game doesn't deserve any coverage. Good or bad.
This is what you get for making a lazy immature and bad game based entirely on content you didn't create.
From the article:
"The others I created myself in Photoshop. [...] It is uncertain if the game will ever return despite petitions that fans are currently circulating requesting the game be reinstated."
...petitions that fans are currently circulating requesting the game be reinstated.
...petitions that fans are currently circulating requesting the game be reinstated.
...petitions that fans are currently circulating requesting the game be reinstated.
I do not believe that for a second.
On one hand I feel like Ramirez is going through too much trouble and effort for this and should just forget about it, but on the other hand we all tried warning Schuets that this would happen, but he wouldn't listen, and so he kind of deserves it...
@Mus1cLov3r
Did you literally stop reading the article at that sentence? He said quite clearly what he's going to do. He's going to have to sue.
Ha!
On a related topic, lawyers are evil scumbags.
@Cobra I like your version much better.
Good luck, have fun.
The Internet Troll face is based of the Face of the troll in the D&D 3.5 Monster Manual and especially the Forest Troll in Monster Manual III, which came out in 2003/2004. I believe that Hasbro has the copyright for those illustrations.
People who don't make their own assets are usually in for a world of hurt when they start making money on their game.
From the Article:
"It is uncertain if the game will ever return despite petitions that fans are currently circulating requesting the game be reinstated. The appropriate protocol to remove the game was followed."
There's a petition for Meme Run?
Oook....
@Cobra As a troll, yours is much more believable. Thumbs up!
@Rob_mc_1 In his defense, sales figures and # of downloads are in fact covered by NDA. Nintendo is oddly restrictive in publicizing success...
How can you make profit off the troll face?
yes! let keep a title out of eshop that nobody(included i,) won't care about and won't be missed,
let's take a few mins to a victory of removing this title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nesTpH6DpQA
You already got his game tooken down, asking for his earnings is to much, it was indeed a minor thing.
Nintendo takes down fan made Mario 64 HD and people call for there heads. This guy makes a game with a silly picture that I wouldn't have known someone owned and bam sue him.
@Gerbwmu
It sold due to being a cheap eshop game and had appeal to kids who didn't know better. Even without great sales, the fact the game costed almost nothing to make means he can get a decent chunk of change.
Overall as I laughed at the tard before, all this could of been avoided. Contact the owner of the licenses you use or make your own damned designs. Neither is hard to do. It is sad that he continues to make up lies and excuses thinking that people will be stupid enough to believe him. If he is taken to court, legal fees alone would extinguish whatever profit he has seen let alone what he'd need to pay off for copyright violation.
@ShockeyRai
There actually is a petition.....that was started by him and his brother with a bunch of fake signups. Such a sad sad pig that guy is.
@Allx360
Defending an intellectual property doesn't make the creator a troll. There is a big difference between fair use of the troll face on the internet where its used for fun (and is free advertisement for Troll face) compared to someone exploiting its property in order to generate profit. The creator isn't out there suing everyone that touches the property, only those who try to overly take advantage of its use without going through the proper channels. Unlike others though, Ninjadick failed to seek out any permission and proceeds to act like a juvenile brat when the subject was brought to his attention. Compounding the issue is that the creator has broken multiple copyrights and uses the properties in absolutely terrible games then rants on forums such as Nintendolife's ranting how much money he is making. Some things you can look past, but the way that the creator of Meme Run abuses the property of others is not one to take lightly
What's worse than a stupid game? An even stupider reason to take it down. It truly shows what kind of people dwell within the meme culture. If you create an image with the intention to see it copy-pasted elsewhere and basically create something that's in the public domain from the get-go, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Jeez.
This Jordan guy is an absolute idiot. Even though his stupid game was removed from the eshop, the issue still isn't going away so trying to dodge the matter is not helping him at all. He needs to realize that and face it head on. Furthermore, if he just cooperates with Ramirez, his worthless game might be put back on the eshop so he could continue to make money from ignorant consumers that don't know better than to look for better quality games, so he's shooting himself in the foot. It really doesn't matter who thinks Ramirez is going too far or not, it still doesn't change these facts about Jordan. Of course I'm fine if the game never comes back to the eshop so whatever. Even if he originally made an agreement with Nintendo to not discuss sales figures with anyone, I'm sure Nintendo will understand that he doesn't have any choice under these circumstances. At least, I think Nintendo would have to.
@Cobra
My thoughts exactly.
@MasterBlaster
That sentence rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't stand the guy the second I read that one.
@BaffleBlend He should be blacklisted from the Internet in general
@firstnesfan
Are you seriously comparing Meme Run and Super Mario 64? Why?
@Gerbwmu All the people who bought it were just as dumb as the creator. You don't understand how many times me and so many people have seen pathetic quotes like, "g8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8", and "meme run so dank" and whatnot. It's absolutely pathetic, but Ninjapig STILL made profit because of those people.
EDIT: Not to mention, "this is the greatest game ever" has been used an extreme number of times.
Wait...people have started petitions to get the game back? They must be just kidding, right? Right?
@AlexSora89 Are you seriously trying to defend this game, this game of all things? All art is automatically copyrighted under US Law. Even simple stuff such as my pixel art, I can still claim a person stole my art without permission. Just because it "copy and pasted everywhere" (you do know that people don't make money from copy and pasting stuff right?) it still illegal in every way, shape, and form. Just because the Mario is every that doesn't mean you can freely put him in your game without permission. This is a very basic law that even 3th Graders know.
@DBPirate He himself made that petition apparently
You know, I made a 16x16 graphic of pure white square one time...
Hey! NintendoLife! You're using my copyrighted white square graphic all OVER your site! Gimme your moneys!
@Quorthon I read the entire thing.
But thanks for making assumptions, 'cause assumptions are great.
@TheLobster I know; thanks for kindly saying that, though—unlike some people. ^
@TeeJay That would explain it.
@firstnesfan Well you know how it is. Nintendo is a "greedy" corporation trying to keep the "little guy down" Nevermind that the employees worked hard to develop games and images and you shoudn't take credit or money for someone else's work. Period.
I downloaded this game...
...and...
...it blows...
I downloaded the game knowing it would blow, but I had no idea a game could blow this hard and still be considered a game.
I have no sympathy for this crank-head that made this. That other game scram kitty, I have seen both those sprites in the screenshot before, I just can't remember where...
@Chaoz (provide you'll even notice this extremely late response of mine)
Yes... and no. See, I just happened to give birth to a meme a few weeks ago, in the comment section for IHateEverything's "I HATE VINE" video, embraced and named "Vinespeak" by several YouTube commenters (basic premise: write an unfinished comment, truncated with dashes, and paste it again and again several times within your own comment). If I were to draw a crude, basic face to associate it with, I wouldn't be mad if it, after catching on within the internet community, would eventually end up in a meme culture-based game. Heck, @Cobra even drew a copyright-free version of the Trollface(TM) to prove how little effort went into the original doodle. As an amateur artist myself, I can tell the difference between someone using a generic face I made up for a meme (a drawing that would end up everywhere anyway) in a game and someone doing the same with the characters I actually work hard on. Suing for the latter is because of a legitimate concern I could understand (I am jealous of my creations too, you know), but the former - even provided the Trollface(R) qualifies as its maker's best effort - just screams attention-seeking or easy money, if not both. Besides, I'm not sure how laws work in the U.S. but IIRC meme faces and the like not only aren't copyrighted by anyone (check the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_comic article and see if you can find out whoever made them), but also fall into the generally-accepted-as grey area of parody. The best example of parody being something lawyers rarely know how to deal with is StarBomb's self-titled debut album, which goes out of its way to spell a copyright disclaimer out loud in its intro track; and behold, I don't hear "red plumber guy", "blue porcupine", "green elf" or "space chick", as the names are instead the clearly audible Mario, Sonic, Link and Samus, respectively.
Also, given the sentence your comment begins with, I'm afraid to have to point out that no, I wasn't defending this game in any way. See my first comment on this thread: "what's worse than a stupid game? An even stupider reason to take it down.". I don't think I was praising the game or anything, but in case it needs to be stressed again, I know the game outright sucks on several levels. The only reason I used to be interested in this game, just as I am interested in its spiritual successor Bigley's Revenge (see my comment on the game's 2/10 review posted today), is plain bile fascination: an awful game for guilty pleasure-centric nights at my place.
This should clear things right up.
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