Super Smash Bros. for Wii U Apex Champion Calls For Unity in Competitive Smash Scene

As long as unification means Items on and on very high frequency, then I can get behind this.

Otherwise, I really don't care if people chant for the N64 game. If you think elements of a game should be banned for "competitive" reasons, you are taking things WAY too seriously.

Never. It's time for Melee to fall. That's something the Smash 4 and Project M fandoms can both agree on - that outdated relic has nothing going for it anymore except for Pichu. And last time I checked, Pichu ain't exactly a major part of the scene!

I mean, if you're that attached to Melee's speed, that's what Project M is for! And it actually has more than five functional characters! Same with SSB4, which actually gave a damn about balance despite many not preferring its speed.

@XCWarrior: The thing about items is that a roll of the dice effectively decides the winner rather than which player is better. Me and a lot of players don't think that's fun at all. How would you feel if, say, a football game was decided because a random fan running into the field messed up one of the teams? That wouldn't be very exciting or fair. I'm not dissing people who enjoy playing with them on, they just don't have a place in a duel between people trying to see which person is better at the game.

Never gonna happen. The hardcore Melee crowd is so toxic and disrespectful to others that asking them to even give equal consideration to Smash 4 is just a lost cause. Apex should completely ignore them next year and let them organize their own tournaments in the future. Or just let them sit at home in their bedrooms and practice with Fox and Falco forever, I don't really care.

Seriously, why can't many people like both games? I love Melee AND Smash for Wii U, they're both great games

Nintendo fanboys vs Nintendo fanboys.

YOU'RE TEARING SMASH APART.

There's competition and then there's drama. They need to cut out the drama and just keep it competitive.

@Stu13 I agree

When your biggest concern is ending the feud between two Smash games..........smh.

Zero thought Brawl was a good game, almost no competitive player agrees with that. He enjoys, and is good at, slower, defensive focused games (like Brawl and Smash 4), so his point of view while not unfair, is a bit biased. In the wider fighting game community, fighting games with a heavy focus on defensive play like vanilla Street Fighter x Tekken are usually very much disliked.

Should the Melee players and fans have booed? Probably not. But Sakurai is in part responsible for their anger, with his continuous design decisions that show he is against competitive play (with the epitome being Brawl), and taking any chance he gets in interviews to tell competitive players they should go screw themselves.

Zero was upset that he was booed at Apex, but even if the Melee players and fans didn't boo him, he was never going get cheers, because he was tier whoring with Diddy, the most infamously unfair character in Smash 4. Is it wrong of him to tier whore, no, it's completely within the rules of the tournament, but few are ever going to cheer for you for doing it, that's just not it works in fighters.

You want cheers Zero, pick a low tier or a character people rarely see. People will be jumping out of their seats.

6:09

@sub12

I don't know what's sadder....

The fact that there is a competitive Smash Bros scene, and that there is apparently drama surrounding it, or that there are people outside of the competitive realm that seem to know about this drama and actually care/have opinions about it.

I hate this planet.

@MasterBlaster Good for you, you are so cool wow i cant believe that you are so hip and dislike an e-sport wow good for you, all the girls must love you.

@DarkKirby As a devote follower of ZeRo, i think it is unfair to say that he is biased to smash4, he is a very good melee player, and still regularly places in top 10's of big tournaments. He played better at brawl but was never on the level he is at smash4. I agree with him, there is space for both games. I personally prefer melee at the moment, but c'mon smash 4 has been out for less than half a year, melee competetive was garbage before 2 years.

There is still perfect pivoting to explore as well as other techs. Both games can get on with each other and respect the different aspects. What would be the point in Sakurai making melee 2.0 when melee is perfect at what it does, it is better for us to get a different sort of game.

@MasterBlaster Did i mention how good of a troll you are??????

Why isn't anyone mentioning that the entire APEX should have been done by the time they were still playing Sm4sh and still had the entire Melee thing to go? Maybe people wanted to go back home and get some sleep before Monday?

@Sugar_Crunch_BD

Not trolling.

I find the fact that people follow the 'careers' of people who play video games very bizarre. Maybe watching a youtube video to see how one of the top players does it? Ok, that could be interesting. But to know/care anything at all about their personal lives (name, history, feuds, etc)? No thanks. In fact, I couldn't think of someone LESS interesting to follow than somebody who dedicates their lives to sitting inside and playing a video game for thousands of hours.

And yes, I do get the girls, but not all of them

I bet Sakurai could make a game that's almost exactly like Melee and people will still say that Melee is superior.

@Sugar_Crunch_BD

You say, what would be the point of Melee 2.0, but Smash 4 is not inaccurately referred to by many competitive players as Brawl 2.0/Fixed Brawl/What Brawl should have been (and not necessarily as a negative).

And techniques like wave dashing in Melee is NOT why many competitive players like Melee, I don't know why there are so many people who come to this conclusion. Most Melee players don't care if it's "hard to play". They like it because it's fast paced and offense focused rather than slow paced and defensive play favored.

While there are other reasons the key mechanic in Smash 4, or lack thereof, that leans it toward defensive play is how the shield/block and hit stun work, as in, there is practically none. Contrary to most other fighters, in most cases you are at an advantage from shielding an attack because the lack of shield stun allows immediate punishes, and the lack of hit stun allows recovery from being hit and punishes at times before the person who hit you recovers form using their attack (dependent on the characters of course, with the slower ones at the largest disadvantage).

Melee fans wouldn't hate Smash 4 if it weren't such an awful game.

I bet if melee HD was released for Wii u, they would still complain.

@warvad Come on, are you serious?

I love Melee, I really do, but I freaking hate the fanbase. This only makes them look like bigger ***holes.

@njm00 Gr8 b8 m8 i r8 it 8/8 no h8 m8

My first smash game was Melee and I learned how to play from that game and progressed in my skill in brawl where after a while I could easily take out lvl 9's (now I know that isn't exciting) then I tried it online which ended up being absolutely terrible. Melee didn't have online so all I could play this game with was my cousin. When I got smash 4, the game truly changed in for glory people always main ONE character while I'm skilled in many different characters. I actually did feel challenged with smash 4 though due to people actually being good. All I see today though is hatred between Melee and any other version. Personally they are entitled to their favorite version but I don't see why you should hate any of the games because in your opinion one is superior to the other or because the game changed.

Times like these I'm thankful to be someone who actually plays games just for fun. Y'know which Smash I enjoyed? All of them. Every single one. And I like it that way.

It pisses me off that they stole a moment that he worked so hard for. It makes no sense to me why can't people like both games I mean lifes not black and white disrespecting people over what makes them happy baffles me. Ether way congratulations to ZeRo

@BaffleBlend Most melee players that dont want to change to PM arent doing it because they think PM sucks. They're more used to Melee and they would rather get used to playing against about 8 characters than trying to learn the MUs for all 40 or so characters in PM. Just because there is an alternative does not mean you have to take it.

@Sakuraichu That image with the comments make me fear for the human race I mean wtf it's a game and what doesn't make sense is that they are hating on the guy/company that made their favorite game.

Unity? Not with Melee fanatics around.

I love Melee as well but shouting "Melee!" during someone's victory celebration is lame. They are the Kayne West of the gaming world.

Also I really enjoy playing with items but I don't think that they should be in competition. Imagine a bomb-omb appearing in front of you and it knocks you out. That's not very fair or fun.

@jjmesa16 I thought that exactly hahaha they pulled such a kanye west

Melee is hype to watch, but Smash 4 is more fun to play.

@DarkKirby Most competitive "techniques" such as wavedashing were not intended to in the game in the first place, but the developers decided to leave them in. Now I can understand brawl believe me but smash 4 is different a balance has been struck with this one.

Jeez, stuff like this is why people usually bash the Melee community.

@DarkKirby I don't think ZeRo was sad that he was getting booed, just the fact that the crowd was disrespecting smash 4, and its players. He doesn't really care what people say about him. If he did, he would've stopped playing Diddy a long time ago. It's the things they say about smash 4 and the community that bothers him. If people don't like smash 4, that's fine, but at least show some respect. THAT is the problem. So what if it's slower? the fast pace of melee isn't for everybody. Besides, smash 4 definitely isn't as slow as people think. People only think it is slow because of watching Dabuz in top 8. He was camping the whole time (not that there is anything wrong with that, since he was playing to win). During phase 2 of pools, apparently, there were MANY legendary sets that were played, but they weren't streamed. Seeing those sets, would surely turn heads.

@Sakuraichu
Wow. That's disgusting.

@DarkKirby you misunderstand, i enjoy melee a lot, i like the pace, the tech, the great punishes you can do, but there is space for both games

There's already unity. You were all unified in abusing wavedashing and other exploits in Melee and sticking only to Fox, and now you're all unified in spamming Diddy Kong's down throw and up air in 4.

Sorry. Competitive scene just sucks like that, and the designers need to also shoulder some of that blame, especially when the "Hoo Hah" just got added to Lv. 9 Diddy's AI with this last update.

I'll stick to fun local, party play, thanks.

Mortal Kombat X, Tekken 7, and Street Fighter V all come out this year.

This Smash vs Smash crap won't even matter when the next tournaments roll around.

@Kasplat: [Edited: Please ignore this. I was upset at something else entirely when I posted this, unrelated to Smash, and I took it out on you. I'm sorry.]

As a person who was watching live it was both baffling and frustrating that they decided to cut Sm4sh to two stocks but then do best of 5 making everything take an age, didn't help that most actually exciting players had been knocked out by this point and matches were becoming a campfest.
Is it right that people booed? no of cause not but I can understand the frustration they felt and seeing as all of them had things to do on Monday I can't get that mad about it and Melee was so much more hype too boot.

OH GUYS I THINK YOU FORGOT FOR 5 MINUTES THAT HE ISN'T AS IMPORTANT A PLAYER BECAUSE HE DOESN'T PLAY MELEE
(I'm being sarcastic just in case)

Uh... Smash Brothers is great!

@Sugar_Crunch_BD zero hasn't been to a tournament since october according to the smash wiki, so I guess it's fair to say he's pretty much dropped melee in favour of 4 and so his skill has deteriorated quite a bit. Wouldn't really call him a top melee player

@Resh Your Cena avatar is godlike!

Will never happen,some melee fans are so damn toxic they can't accept anything!That's why people go after the melee community cause of those people.It's sad both games are from the same franchise,why can't we love both?

@jedisquidward Who said he isn't important because he doesn't play Melee? Cut the crap on the Melee hate.

@midnafanboy More toxic than the Melee fanboys are the haters and the anti-competitive fans. You will NEVER find people as vile as them.

Honestly surprised that there are no people trying to even understand where the Melee fans are coming from. Pretty much every thing they've ever liked has been nerfed or removed to make it even more casual. The game was made to be defensive when no one even cared about it being aggressive. It's the part of the fandom that has progressively been getting less and less because Sakurai does not like them at all. If you can't understand why they're always negative about the new Smash games, I don't think you have the right to insult them.

Melee has introduced a competitive scene, whether you like it or not and the best way to live with it isn't to make it more casual like Brawl did, because you still didn't get rid of them and you still had to deal with them. You have to ADAPT to this new part of the fandom. Give the Melee fans a Smash game that rewards offensive play over defensive play, ATs, combos and there you have it. You satisfied the competitive fans and you won't hear about them for another millennium.

@TheRegginator
Agree on every point.

@Sakuraichu
Using Twitch chat as an example of anything? Twitch chat is a terrible, scum-filled dump everywhere. This awful behavior is not limited to Smash Bros streams.

@EngieBengie I think both are terrible the melee fanboys who go way overboard and the people that hate them,then they hate the entire community cause of those toxic melee fans.Not all melee fans are like that.

@EngieBengie Now for your second comment you made make a smash bros game for the melee fans?That's not fair what about the casuals like myself,who just play the game for fun?But i did have fun with melee,but still just make a game that just pleases one group?And yes i know Smash 4 wasn't like melee,but it happened.Either way any new smash bros game that comes out in 5 or more years,one of the two groups will not be satisfied and it will be unending of hatred against each other.And no one wants that.

Melee is a great game, but the cult that surrounds it these days is incredibly obnoxious.

@TheRegginator So... I guess Mew2King is a casual then

This is a post about competitive smash bros. If you are making a post here to bash that, please go away. Some of the comments here... people... -_-

I was turned on to Smash by the Smash Brothers Documentary Series. Watching a community form from the ground up was incredibly interesting. With the community itself being very unique. Although I can't help but notice the role that hazing played in the early years and how it's fused into the foundation of the scene.

I don't really know what to think of it. On one hand it makes for very entertaining and almost hostile matches at times, bringing back full round to the uniqueness. And I feel like if this was taken away, well obviously the smash scene wouldn't be what it is today.

On the other hand you have to deal with this sort of classlessness at times. I've noticed that many of the core members have learned to walk a fine line, which I actually love. It adds character to the tournaments. But those who haven't quite figured out how to do this, that go to far.. They can make the community look pretty terrible sometimes. And people wonder why Nintendo has been so hesitant to hop on board the competitive scene with this game.

I feel sorry for Zero for thinking he could change the scene. Don't get me wrong I hope it happens, but from what i've seen of the smash bros community it is toxic, like League of Legends style toxic.

Recently I was going to get into competitive smash bros for fun and because I loved the game in years past when younger with family and friends, but when I found the online community I was disgusted so much that I decided it was a waste of time and to not bother.

@midnafanboy because you'll always have people FROM BOTH SIDES of the smash community trash talking which will lead to the inevitable. The Brawl and 4 community are just as bad as the Melee community

@Sugar_Crunch_BD wow.. Someone disagreed with something you like, and your first response was to insult? Piece . Of. Work. YOU are one of people who are part of the problem Zero was talking about. Did you see how toxic you became? Then you went on and posted a second trolling comment! Someone needs a hug.

@midnafanboy Well the thing is that Melee could very well be played casually. It was your choice to either play with items on and not using ATs but you had the choice to put more work into honing your skills. And if you wanted to go to tourneys, it was your choice as well. But the thing here is Brawl was made with the sole purpose of being played casually. Sure, there is a competitive scene in Brawl but it really forces the player to play defensively and campy, which is by no means a welcome things as the first to Smash games were mostly offensive, like pretty much the vast majority of Fighting games. So when people like Zero stall, it isn't so much s ZeRo's fault as it is the game just rewarding this type of play.

This is just one of the reasons why I consider Melee to still be the best Smash game in the series. It had a perfect balance between casual play and competitive play. While I very much like Sm4sh, it gets VERY annoying when you are going for aerial attack only to have the opponent air dodging you, like pretty much every time. It makes the aerial game and aerial approaches pretty pointless. Like, the offensive approaches are so easy to deny.

@BaffleBlend It's alright, I'm more impressed that you bothered to apologize