Topic: What is an hardcore game?

I agree with the original post. I don't like the terms and people give them too much weight.... but let me give my 2c on what I think they mean regardless.

From my understanding a "casual game" is a game that I can give to someone who doesn't play games and they will be able to play it. Wii Sports Resort is a good example of a "casual game" because I can give a Wii Remote to my Dad and say "use the 'b' button to hold and pretend its a frisbee" and he will be able to enjoy it.

A "hardcore game" on the other hand requires a certain amount of dedication to get enjoyment out of it. In a typical shooter for example you have a bunch of buttons that all do different things, a whole set of different weapons that all have different strengths and weaknesses and the game itself has requires a certain type of spatial awareness which can be nauseating if you aren't used to it.

The thing about these terms is that they can also be applied to things like music, movies and anything else like that. With music in particular there are two terms "pop" and "indie" which are used a lot like "casual" and "hardcore". If you disagree with this comparison go to a Sonic Youth forum and claim that Coldplay's "Speed of Sound" has more depth than anything on The Eternal. See if its similar to the sort of response you get when you claim that Wii Sports Resort has more depth than Halo at IGN

Hardcore games -- its hard to explain to a foreigner. They are games that are focused on graphics. Casual games are games that anybody can play.

A hardcore gamer can play one game for like 5 hours every day. A casual gamer might play for two hours.

Right now, hardcore gamers have a lot of attitude.

Casual gamers wash...

Evil moderator "Er, I hope that was you being ironic!"

Poor old Machu "Of course it was! You guys still don't get me yet huh."

I agree with your arguments here, but i feel there is still something missing. For example my girlfriend is Playfirst addicted, she has played some games like Diner Dash or Farm Frenzy on PC many many hours trying to get expert everywhere, so what make her not "hardcore"? The facts that from our point of view those games are considered "casual"?

Thanks V
This is why i like this forum, it seems more mature discussions can be made rather than ultra "casual" IGN

Could anyone help my with my first post sentance:
"Maybe it's a generation gap? I still remember when the first PS came, how the Nintendo people labelled it as casual compared to the N64; at least here, internet didn't was so popular so i don't know how this was in America or in England."

It seems everything that expand the user base at first will be labelled as "casual".

Perhaps she is casually hardcore?

Custers Revenge is pretty hardcore.

It is a game that is hard... to the core.

May I first say welcome to our new participant, Alza.

May I secondly request that Firkraag be a little nicer and not refer to topics which he might not see merit in as "stupid" or "retarded."

And now for the actual addressing of what I think is always something interesting to discuss when framed as an actual quest for knowledge rather than automatically labelling things. I think this notion has been around for awhile; I do recall during the Playstation days that Sony's successful positioning of the console as that generation's must-have gadget aroused a good deal of moaning about the multitude of crappy games that flooded the market as a combined result of Sony's more lax licensing requirements, easier development environment and cheapter media. I cannot remember the term "casual" being used to define games, but I do recall people who spent all their waking hours playing games describing themselves as "hardcore" gamers.

From the Nintendo Channel's "Share Your Thoughts" survey it would probably be safe to say that a casual game is one that has appeal to an audience beyond people who regard themselves as "gamers" and hardcore games are games which are targeted at people who have gaming as a serious hobby.

Personally I don't regard it as something to worry much about. I suppose as publishers try to reduce costs to increase shareholder profit you could see a reduction in the number of big buget action titles because in a bigger gaming market they're as niche as RPGs were in the 32-bit era. It really depends on whether or not Microsoft and Sony are really going to make an effort at going after the more general "household with a tv" market that Nintendo's successfully built the Wii business upon (frankly I don't see how either can survive as console makers otherwise).

Lets say casual gamers are these that play to something that can finish in few minutes: A simple boxing match, playing a melody, whatever you might have in whatever Sports whatever, etc. So the game starts fast, the game provides some level of fun, the controls are easy, the instructions are quite simple (or not needed at all). It the game allows short MP matches, then better.
HC might be considered the opposite: the complexity of the game doesnt matter as long as the game is interesting, the longest length of the game the better (weeks or months to finish it). If there is an story line, then even better, etc.
You have a quite good example with Fallout 3 or Oblivion, both of them are clearly HC.

Then you have casual games that are quite close to the lower limit for HC area, line Mario Kart or Mario Galaxy series. But in no way they should be considered HC at all. And games that are mid level HC (which might be the best level for Wii HC games BTW) as Zelda TP.

No such thing. A game is a game,unless it is shovelware.

That's one of the reasons I don't like these sort of terms. You get to a game like Pokemon which is aimed at kids and is fairly easy to pick up and has a fairly large and diverse fanbase.... but within that fanbase you have a bunch of fanatics that dedicate hours to balancing teams, organising movesets and fine tuning things like "EVs".

There are other games like say Tetris which are very basic in their controls and fit into every definition of "casual games" ever made. But at the same time gamers can spend hours playing a game like Tetris to the point that they start hearing the music even when they are not playing! (oh the memories)

Then there are other games like Geometry Wars or Bit Trip Beat which everyone likes to call "hardcore games" because of their difficulty. But at the same time the controls are really easy to pick up and when I play those sort of games I only play for 20mins. If I ever did start to play games more "casually" a game like Bit Trip Beat would be perfect.

The way I see it maybe 10% of games are casual, 10% are hardcore, 50% are shovelware and the rest can't be defined

Or maybe hardcorelly casual? Those definitions could be ambiguous, lol!

Thanks Sean Aaron!
I'm not so much into movies but maybe gaming will need some more years to become good for everyone, it's a relatively new form of entertainment and it's still see as something bad by older people, at least from my experience.

I really like your points!
I still remember the Tetris music, don't make me burst into tears please

PS. What is a shovelware?

Shovelware is a game meant to be terrible,but looks like it would appeal to a "casual" gamer just to make money. Carnival Games is an example. Nevermind that last part. Over 50% of the Wii's library is an example. That is the truth.

For simplicity's sake, I would say:
Hardcore - a full game, with a beginning and an ending. You need to actually finish one part of the game to move onto the next part.
Examples: Zelda/Mario/Halo, hell even Super Monkey Ball.
*The term "hardcore" is pretty stupid though. These games are not really "hardcore." We haven't seen many true "hardcore" games since the days of the NES (MegaMan, Metroid, Section-Z, BattleToads, etc)

Casual - A "pick up and play" type game. You don't need to devote hours to finish it, you can simply enjoy it whenever you want.
Examples: Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario Party

Basically, casual games are games that can be enjoyed by soccer moms for half an hour every few days or so.
Length, progression-based games can not be enjoyed in such a manner.

A good measure of how ridiculous these terms are..... turn on your Wii and fire up the Nintendo channel. Go to the "search for games by categories" and then click on "what people think". There are two questions here:
"Who would enjoy this the most?"

• Non-Gamers
• Gamers

"What kind of game is this?"

• Casual
• Hardcore

If you look for Hardcore Gamer games you will come up with stuff like The Conduit, Metriod, Zelda. If you look up Casual Gamer games you will be shown games like Mario Kart and Smash Bros. Casual Non-Gamer will bring up Wii Music, Wii Sports Resort and so on... but what about the Hardcore Non-Gamer games? ....... * crickets *

Perhaps the reason they don't exist is because it sounds absurd because the meaning of these terms kinda overlap in the middle somewhere. I think there was an E3 or a GDC a while ago where Iwata said that he believes there are three types of games: Those for gamers, those for non-gamers and "bridge" games. To me that division makes more sense and I really wish that eventually the gaming press would throw out the terms "casual" and "hardcore" because they are meaningless terms. IMO a game that doesn't let you play it casually or doesn't have enough depth to keep you interested isn't a "hardcore" or a "casual" game, its just a poorly designed game.

That which I like is hardcore, that which I wish to dismiss is casual. The term is nothing but an arbitrary division line to assert oneself as superior to others.

As Maddox said, "Playing Halo and calling yourself a hardcore gamer is like eating at McDonald's and calling yourself a foodie"

But anyway, I guess you want a concrete definition...
What is a hardcore game?
Five tons of flax!

Conkers is pretty hardcore. Or perhaps the reverse - I guess its all about the outer shell.

I guess I would think 'hardcore' is something that requires a lot of time and application to progress in...
I tend to prefer the 'twitch' gameplay style require by classic arcade action, but then again, a really great arcade game like Sega Rally rewards repeated practise as there is hidden depth once you develop a high level of skill.

Speaking about arcade, i think it's possible that the problem with hardcore-casual definitions it's the same about arcade and simulation. I mean, if we look at Grand Slam Tennis, it is labelled as arcade, but you cannot play well until you put many hours into it. The same could be said maybe for a game like PES, it seems pretty simulative, but it's still possible to enjoy it (at lower level of difficulty) without much problems.