The songs are note for note. There is nothing "weak" about it. If you're well aware of Liberty Bell March being public domain, then shouldn't you also know that it's entirely irrelevant to a discussion about non-public domain songs? Copyright infringement is no small matter today. The Beatles are far from the only band infringed upon, either. The New Age Retro Hippy theme is an exact rip-off.
It would be different if they were just slightly similar, but most of the songs are note for note. This sort of thing does not hold up in court. Nintendo is not about to pull a Vanilla Ice and say, "No, it's not ding ding ding ding-ding-ding ding, it's do do do do-do-do do"?
Really, I would have thought its removal from Brawl would have been an obvious enough clue that it's not coming out. They'd have no other reason to pull it. They already translated and programmed it. It would have just been a matter of plugging in the information. And yet it did not appear on our copy of Brawl. Hmm.
Also, Starmen have never acted like they hate Nintendo. They're actually quite enthusiastic about other first-party titles, Smash Brothers being the obvious stand out.
It's not a matter of optimism, only realism. I do want the game to come out. It is inconvenient to hold onto the SNES for a single game.
But if you are going to accuse a respectable site of concocting huge rumors for no reason whatsoever, that's not only rude but ridiculous, so you ought to back yourself up with facts if you're going to say something like that. They backed themselves up with pages of detailed examples, so for someone to come along and dismiss it as rumor without giving any evidence to contradict them, well, that seems more like inventing a rumor than anything else.
Your only argument for the game not getting released seems to be the music. And yet this is a game that was released in 1995 with no issues, no Beatles copyright holders frantically phoning their lawyers. Nothing. If the game was re-released on VC, no suits would be filed, guaranteed. When a game gets released on VC, its not as huge a deal as a big commercial release. Beatles copyright owners more than likely wouldn't give two s***s about a game that is getting re-released that may have tracks that sound a little similar to a Beatles song. Maybe if Nintendo were releasing and heavily advertising a remake with music that is undisputably ripped off from the Beatles, but certainly not for a puny VC release that would go completely unnoticed by everyone except hardcore Nintendo fans.
Not only that, but you're forgetting the edits Nintendo has made to VC games. If Nintendo is willing to take the Kawasaki name off vehicles in Wave Race, then they'd more than likely have no problem with a simple change in a few notes of a particular track in the game which would surpass the issue entirely. And that's even if, and I stress the word IF, Nintendo actually had a legitimate concern over the music.
And who knows why EB was removed from the Masterpieces? Perhaps Nintendo is holding off on all things Mother to release all three games in a collection or something. And even if that's not the case, if the music was, again, an actual concern, Nintendo could easily make the part of the game where you hear the music non-playable. Since this would only be a 2-5 minute demo, it's not like Nintendo couldn't have the demo start from a location in the game that doesn't have the music in question.
And who says starmen.net is a credible source? You? Do you work for the site? It's not 'realism' when there are countless holes in their argument.
Your only argument for the game not getting released seems to be the music. And yet this is a game that was released in 1995 with no issues, no Beatles copyright holders frantically phoning their lawyers. Nothing.
Copyright laws have changed dramatically over the past few years. Why you would assume what holds true for 1995 has any bearing on 2009, I don't know.
Pit+42 wrote:
If the game was re-released on VC, no suits would be filed, guaranteed.
Like heck you can "guarantee" anything. What, do you read minds? You don't know what the Beatles' lawyers think.
Pit+42 wrote:
When a game gets released on VC, its not as huge a deal as a big commercial release. Beatles copyright owners more than likely wouldn't give two s***s about a game that is getting re-released that may sound a little similar to a Beatles song. Maybe if Nintendo were releasing and heavily advertising a remake with music that is undisputably ripped off from the Beatles, but certainly not for a puny VC release that would go completely unnoticed by everyone except hardcore Nintendo fans.
And yet, by your own admission, Nintendo has made edits to VC games before, so obviously someone does "give two s***s" about it.
Pit+42 wrote:
Not only that, but you're forgetting the edits Nintendo has made to VC games. If Nintendo is willing to take the Kawasaki name off vehicles in Wave Race, then they'd more than likely have no problem with a simple change in a few notes of a particular track in the game which would surpass the issue entirely. And that's even if, and I stress the word IF, Nintendo actually had a legitamate concern over the music.
Right, because that is remotely comparable, recomposing half a soundtrack (not to mention tons of graphics) and rewriting a single word. As I've said, it's not "a few notes." You clearly didn't listen to the tracks well. There are several tracks that are note for note stolen, the most obvious and memorable example being the New Age Retro Hippy theme.
Pit+42 wrote:
And who knows why EB was removed from the Masterpieces? Perhaps Nintendo is holding off on all things Mother to release all three games in a collection or something.
Speaking of rumors... the old Mother Trilogy DS rumor. Good one. Except that it doesn't make sense. Iwata said they were going to release the game on VC, and the inclusion on the Brawl disc in Japan indicates this as well. Nintendo hasn't held back any other game for reasons such as this. They released Fire Emblem in Japan despite the fact that they were also doing a DS remake.
Pit+42 wrote:
And even if that's not the case, if the music was, again, an actual concern, Nintendo could easily make the part of the game where you hear the music non-playable. Since this would only be a 2-5 minute demo, it's not like Nintendo couldn't have the demo start from a location in the game that doesn't have the music in question.
And what exactly would be the purpose? If music is preventing it from a full release, what is the purpose of demoing a fraction of a release that won't actually be released?
Pit+42 wrote:
And who says starmen.net is a credible source? You? Do you work for the site? It's not 'realism' when there are countless holes in their argument.
And who says they aren't a credible source? They haven't lied to anyone before. It makes absolutely no sense to suggest that the biggest fan site there is would make up a gigantic rumor designed to disappoint the games fans. What kind of logic is this? You talk about "holes in their argument," but yours is the much more questionable argument, with holes not only in its point-by-point logic, but also in its basic premise and purpose. There is no motivation for such a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
Copyright laws have changed dramatically over the past few years. Why you would assume what holds true for 1995 has any bearing on 2009, I don't know.
Uh, maybe because it's THE SAME GAME.
And yet, by your own admission, Nintendo has made edits to VC games before, so obviously someone does "give two s***s" about it.
Only Nintendo does. Highly unlikely Kawasaki came into the Nintendo office and said, "Hey, don't keep our name on the jet skis!" It was Nintendo protecting themselves against a lawsuit. And unless you can name several other incidents where Beatles lawyers have tracked down people for using their songs without permission, your argument is invalid.
Right, because that is remotely comparable, recomposing half a soundtrack (not to mention tons of graphics) and rewriting a single word. As I've said, it's not "a few notes." You clearly didn't listen to the tracks well. There are several tracks that are note for note stolen.
I don't remember the exact tracks in question, but I remember comparing the tracks with Beatles songs when starmen.net posted the 'news', and I can assure you, the music was not 'stolen'.
Speaking of rumors... the old Mother Trilogy DS rumor. Good one. Except that it doesn't make sense. Iwata said they were going to release the game on VC, and the inclusion on the Brawl disc in Japan indicates this as well. Nintendo hasn't held back any other game for reasons such as this. They released Fire Emblem in Japan despite the fact that they were also doing a DS remake.
I was using that as an example, I don't actually believe it's true. Neither of us know what Nintendo plans to do with the Mother franchise, and it's ridiculous for either of us to claim we do.
And what exactly would be the purpose? If music is preventing it from a full release, what is the purpose of demoing a fraction of a release that won't actually be released?
According to you and other people at starmen.net who could just as easily be lying.
I fail to see any holes. And who says they aren't a credible source? They haven't lied to anyone before. It makes absolutely no sense to suggest that the biggest fan site there is would make up a gigantic rumor designed to disappoint the games fans. What kind of logic is this? You talk about "holes in their argument," but yours is the much more questionable argument, with holes not only in its point-by-point logic, but also in its basic premise and purpose. There is no motivation for such a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
I just pointed out several. And how to you know they haven't lied? Unless you yourself witnessed Nintendo executives talking to people at starmen.net saying that EB would not get released, it's reasonable to think that they may be lying.
And I already explained their possible motivation: to stir up hatred towards Nintendo. It seems that you're just going around in cricles with your 'argument' here. Believe what you want to believe, I'd much rather be optimistic than pessimistic.
Show me one instance of a circle argument. Do you even know what that is? I know what I'm doing, thank you. If you don't agree, fine, but if you're going to make baseless accusations against Starmen, at least don't make baseless accusations against me.
Pit+42 wrote:
Adam wrote:
Copyright laws have changed dramatically over the past few years. Why you would assume what holds true for 1995 has any bearing on 2009, I don't know.
Uh, maybe because it's THE SAME GAME.
I didn't say anything about the game changing between 1995 and 2009; I said copyright laws have changed. That's why it is harder to release it now than it was then.
Pit+42 wrote:
Adam wrote:
And yet, by your own admission, Nintendo has made edits to VC games before, so obviously someone does "give two s***s" about it.
Only Nintendo does. Highly unlikely Kawasaki came into the Nintendo office and said, "Hey, don't keep our name on the jet skis!" It was Nintendo protecting themselves against a lawsuit.
Your point about Kawasaki just reinforces mine. You admit now that Nintendo does care about this, so why the heck would they care about a tiny issue in one game and not a ton of issues in another game?
As for your vaguely remembered "assurances," I couldn't care less. You mustn't have a good ear for music because they are note for note, no matter what you "assure" me. I'm sure Nintendo would be very comforted to know that if they are taken to court, you could go in and baselessly assure the prosecution that they're not that close. Phew!
And as for the Brawl demo, it was you who said "And even if that's not the case, if the music was, again, an actual concern." I was merely going off of your hypothetical example. And yet now you're calling me and Starmen liars for your own example? You clearly don't know how this sort of thing works. You can't say "even if that's the case," have your point proven wrong, then say "but it's not the case" as if you never entered the hypothetical situation to begin with.
And lastly, for your silly motivation, what would Starmen stand to gain from stirring up hatred toward Nintendo? I'm not sure where you get these conspiracy theories from, but last I checked, it would make much more sense for them to try to encourage patience and appreciation for what Nintendo is doing if they didn't have some evidence against the possibility.
You ask how I know they're not lying, and I'll answer it the same way I answered the first time you asked: They haven't before. Why start now? It's pointless and rude to assume someone's lying, especially on such a grand scale, who has no history of lying whatsoever. Point out one instance where they concocted some malicious rumor like this in the past, and then you'll have a point, but you can't just assume they're lying based on nothing and then pass it off as fact.
I can see you're getting angry over this argument, and are running out of points to argue. I didn't admit Nintendo cares about anything. I'm simply operating under the asumption that there may be some ligitimacy in your argument, but I still firmly believe there isn't. And I never called you or starmen.net liars. You seem to think, however, that you and they are both totally infallible and would never lie to anyone.
"What would starmen have to gain by stirring up hatred towards Nintendo?" More angry letters sent demanding the game to be released. More fans boycotting Nintendo because they still don't have their game. More people going to their site and rallying with the EB fans against Nintendo. Plenty of things to gain.
It's not pointless or rude to assume someone's lying. What, so you just believe everything you hear, then? If starmen.net told you the world was ending tomorrow, would you believe them? It's extremely important to doubt things, especially claims like these.
I'd also like to emphasize that your claims are still very much RUMOR, and in my opinion, quite far from the truth. You even said yourself Nintendo said that they plan to release EB on VC, so unless Nintendo retracts that statement, I'm hopeful for EB's eventual release. I can see that this argument will not end with either of us conceding, so I suggest we both agree to disagree.
Uhh, what? I'm not angry at all, but hey, let's make more baseless assumptions. Always fun, I guess. Saying someone is "running out of points to argue" after he has just made several, certainly good logic, too. The Kawasaki thing proves that Nintendo does care about this. And yet with no reason whatsoever, you write it off saying you simply "don't believe it" after bringing it up yourself and then tell me I'm out of points to argue? I've done nothing but engage in the discussion same as you have, but suddenly you feel the need to say I'm emotional about it? Sounds familiar.
But anyway, Starmen doesn't stand to gain from any of those examples. They have made it explicitly and abundantly clear that they do not approve of angry letters, boycotts, etc.
As for your notions of politeness, I never said I assume they are infallible or that I am, but assuming someone is completely fictionalizing all of this is worse, especially when you're absolutely groundless in this assumption. Saying you think they might have made a mistake or that you aren't sure about it is one thing, but saying that they are making up the whole thing as a malicious rumor without any evidence, yea, that's unquestionably rude. You seem to not see any middle ground between saying a site is staffed by evil liars and accepting their every word as the word of god.
I don't expect everyone to agree with them or me. It's completely fine to think Earthbound will come out, to think the legality issues are exaggerated, mistaken, or perhaps will eventually fade away or be settled somehow. But that's not exactly what you said. I believe them because they have an established history of honesty, and it makes no sense to assume they changed into scheming, hateful liars overnight. Perhaps they were misinformed, perhaps their informants were misinformed. Who knows, but to say they made this up just to piss people off... this uninformed line of reasoning ironically mirrors what you're accusing them of by making up a story with no evidence just to defame them.
This is just getting incredibly pathetic. You've got your head so far up your own a** that there's really no point in continuing this argument. I've tried to respectfully debate with you, and you insist on insulting me and completely re-writing my arguments to desperatly try and prove that you are right. You've definitely got a thing or two to learn about debating. Good day.
Forums
Topic: What games do you wish was on VC?
Posts 41 to 53 of 53
This topic has been archived, no further posts can be added.