Topic: What did you think of the Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Excuse me while I adjust my blinkers, ahem.

@ Adam - Wind Waker was quit linear - after you get a boat and a wide wide ocean, for the first three dungeons (I thinki) you cannot even change the wind, you go where it blows you, lol. The only Zeldas - if I remember right - are the NES that allow some non linear action - you can get into the dungeons out of order, maybe you will not finish them for want of an item, but you can at least get to them....

Alkso it is ridiculous to say TP did nothing better than the earlier games.

Honestly - just a few

you think the bow aiming in TP is not MUCH smoother than Gc and espeicaly the N64 ones - c'mon

the fighting engine was mcuh smoother and had a lot more moves.

Hyrule Castle Town is by the the best realised social center in any Zelda game

The fishing is much improved and you can fish other than the pond

you can hold a ton of bombs

The wolf is fast, faster than rabbit link even...

If you are bored with the series fine, but I say at least be fair. 'It sucked' - uh, ok, yeah it was a real turd compared to the eaarlier games? Yeah right.

Outside in the daytime, the graphics were awesome. At nighttime, in sewers or dank caves though... its horrible. I almost gave up when you were a wolf having to collect bugs. It was already dark and entering the wolf scent mode made it even darker. I found that irritatingly dull. Never in all its years had I been bored to tears by a Zelda game until Twilight Princess.

I eventually gave up because I couldn't find a mirror in the town to open up the castle. Just couldn't be bothered with the whole wandering about talking to everyone, checking everywhere thing.

I never completed it. I played up to where I got the master sword and then I stopped.

They're the moments I play games for, exploration and interaction.

I like windwaker the best

From cracked.com

Here's a very simple rule:

Humans only find repetition enjoyable when they choose it.

Let's say you sit on your bed one afternoon and, out of boredom, fling playing cards at a hat for two hours straight, just to pass the time. You amuse yourself trying to hit 10 in a row.

Now imagine it's later in the evening and you're about to have sex with your girl. Suddenly she sits up, her boobies hanging out, and says, "Wait! We can't do it until you fling 10 cards into that hat over there! It's a rule in the obscure religion I practice!"

Will you enjoy the card flinging this time? No, and in fact the repetition you found enjoyable before will become maddening, as you flip cards around your frustrated, wilting manhood.

Well some video games are like tossing cards: sports games, fighting games, racing games. The fun is in repeating and practicing them. But other mission-based games are like having sex. There's a specific progression and goal in mind, and repetitive interruption only ruins the mood.

This applies to the exploration and interaction in Zelda games especially Twilight Princess. I've done a few things that would be considered a waste of time in games such as cutting down every bush, making the whole screen full of dug up holes. But if the game WANTED me to do those things when it decided to before I could progress then I would not want to do them.

I kinda see what you mean, but if she said I had to do that before getting any action, I'd go downstairs and make a sandwich and put the telly on, "sorry love".

That's the beauty of Zelda, just go do something else if you're not in the frame of mind to be jumping through that particular hoop, at that particular moment. Remember this is just my opinion and preference, I'm not telling anybody anything. Zelda rocks!

i agree with this person...

A stirring defense of Twilight Princess.

@ Mr. Micawber
You can complete quite a few dungeons out of order in the first two Zeldas, but even a game like Link to the Past where you can mostly just get to the dungeons out of order (with one or two exceptions where the dungeon can be completed, ignoring any glitches like Death Mountain Descent) gives the game a greater sense of freedom than later games.

One of the most interesting parts of the first two Zeldas (though also perhaps the most nonsensical) is that you could use keys from one dungeon in another, and there were also other ways to get through locked doors (buying keys in Zelda 1, Fairy spell in Zelda 2), so you really aren't very limited so long as you can get to each dungeon (for instance, needing the raft or flute, but those are just two dungeons).

I don't think I've ever done the Zelda 1 dungeons in order, actually. I always forget where one or two of them are. That game is so huge!

One of my favorite video game quotes is from Neutopia (aka Zelda 3). It's about this guy who will increase your bomb bag size. The character says something like, "There is a wise man who can hold many things at once."

I love it and have replayed it just as much as the other Zeldas. I still have all the poes to find in my original file and then I'll have 100% completion. It'll be the first time I've done that in a Zelda game.

Amazing game that I really need to put into my Wii and beat

One more thing I would like to add to this convo. I mentioned before that this was my first 3D Zelda and on that note there is something I just remembered about playing it for the first time. The first time I played it I got upto and almost passed the "runaway horse and cart" mission before I figured out what Z-Targeting was....

To top it off when I was trying to play that mission I thought the way to get through it was to shoot the bird thing with an arrow, get the dudes on the pig thingos with my sword and whenever the cart caught on fire I would put it out with the boomerang. It frustrated me to no end until I was complaining about it to one of my friends who said "you know that Z button? its pretty handy in Zelda, so is the boomerang. Give it another go"....

About the linearity, it's not just the dungeon order, which is a factor. Even if a Zelda game has a linear dungeon order, like Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask or The Wind Waker, it might manage to give a non-linear expierence in other ways. For example lots of optional stuff and sidequests, non-linear world exploration or non-linear dungeon design. Link's Awakening is a perfect example for non-linear dungeon design, while The Wind Waker has a massive open world with lots of optional islands and so on.

And whoever says, that Ocarina of Time is more linear than Twilight Princess, never really played Ocarina. After you grew adult, you can play the Forest, Fire and Water Temples in ANY order. After that you can choose between Shadow and Spirit Temple. Also, the Ice Cavern and the Bottom of the Well can be approached at different times and there is an optional dungeon. THIS is what I call non-linear. Also, the world exploration from the first time you enter Hyrule Field is absolutely non-linear, you can basically go everywhere from the start with a few limitations, unlike in Twilight Princess, where it tells you "go there first and don't bother trying other ways, they are all blocked!!". The only Zelda game, which has a higher level of non-linearity than Ocarina of Time is The Legend of Zelda on the NES. There you can play most dungeons out of order and the entire world is open from the start. That was even the goal of the first Zelda game, it was about non-linearity, like Twilight Princess was about Link transforming into a wolf.

Twilight Princess is the exact opposite to TLoZ on the NES, it's probably the most linear game in the series. Trust me, since I played the whole Zelda series up and down, I can tell that. Even Four Swords Adventures and The Minish Cap, while they are very linear games, at least offered some non-linear dungeons.

You listening Adam, huh, huh!? lol

and no I don't want a fight

Oh, I think you do!

But if that conversation must come up again, that's missing the point. The 3D Zeldas were designed so that Z-targeting would be necessary. It's a design choice, solving a problem they created themselves by choosing that perspective. A first-person Zelda or a Zelda with a more overhead, pulled back camera would be easy enough to aim without Mr. Z, which would make combat more interesting than just letting the game do it for you.

But surely then it would just be another hack n' slash? I'm not fond of those, as they can be somewhat mindless.

I'm asking myself why I brought this up again, as we are both stubborn and I will get no-where. So I'll blame skywake and back politely out the room.

@ Machu
Zelda has thrived on NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA, and DS -- none of which have Z buttons -- without ever being "mindless" or "just another hack and slash." I would mention CD-i, too, but I don't know what buttons it has.

Sorry Chciken B. but that is a lame retort, considering you cut that one thing out of a list....you should save that comment for your 'it sucked' comment - 'a stirring criticism of TP'....sounds like billy describing hie first day of skool...

And I stand by it anyhow - it is great to hold a ton of bombs, especially since you can arm bomb arrows...

One othe thing I liked was the Zora Armour, and the underwater exploration - granted Majoras had a Zora suit, but his combat was lame in my eyes and beyond the Beaver race, most of the swimming was interrupted by fish skeletons spawning in your path......TP had some big areas to swim in and scout fish even!

Long story short, I would take TP swimming over any game in the series, cause it is beeter -chalk another one up!

Another minor detail - I loved thw wolf tracking - that was inspired as well, and used through out the whole game.

I think in general it is easier for ppl to focus on little things they did not like them to remeber the sparks of innovation and improvement the game gives off....