Topic: Why do you think Mario has got more successful over the years but Sonic hasn’t?

Gotta love a random Necro post. Interesting topic but

The thing is, Sonic's entire bit is that he moves fast. Which was born out of the fact that the Mega Drive could scroll the screen faster than the SNES. The Mega Drive was outclassed in pretty much every other aspect. Goes without saying that scrolling fast lost the technical wow factor fairly fast. And all you're left with is a gimmick that runs counter to the stable controls

Super Mario Bros? I mean it was also born out of the NES being able to scroll screens. But scrolling in general is a bit more fundamental. The reason it did well was because it was also a strong platformer in general. Built around very, very stable controls

First of all, when it comes to Mario, you have to go back to the 1980s, when a huge crisis began to reign in the game market. Even Higeru Miyamoto himself and so the person who created this character (Manga) told from the beginning Nintendo to take a chance, they would succeed. In general, this was the time of the formation of Activision, the entry of Atari or Commodore 64, so a revolution began in the world of games. In addition, few people realize that the original version of Mario was without his brother, Luigi joined over time. He just lifted Nintendo from its knees with this title, plus there is no denying the fact that at the time these consoles were not expensive, and were easily available. As a curiosity, it was Mario's creator who invented the pad for the SNES, equipped with the top L and R buttons, which became permanently established in controllers of all manufacturers.

I thin Sonic was not as successful because they were always late to the punch Sonic one was a good game but mario world already existed and was the better game Sonic adventure was a good game but mario 64 already existed and was the better game Sonic got a mid racing game but mario already had several better kart racer before him

Ignoring the very important history, Nintendo just makes super polished Mario games. A lot of Sonic games could be better than they are but they just aren't.

More controversial, but my favorite game streamer who streams both Mario and Sonic humorously compared 2D Sonic levels to bad 2D Mario levels — areas where it is unclear where to go, lots of blind falls, lots of parts where it feels natural to run but you will smack right into an off-screen enemy if you do. It's not really a fair comparison, but it does give some examples of why level design is difficult when the level is centered around going fast but still wants combat and puzzles and variety as well. Since Mario is only centered around very general platforming it can have faster or slower parts more naturally.

Mario is an avatar for Ninteno's gameplay. The gaming industry has a lot to thank Mario for. And to answer the topic's question...so does Sonic.

Sonic is one of the biggest selling game franchises of all time, so it’s done quite well for Sega (and, I would add, despite Sega)

That's a good point... we're comparing two series that have sold well over 100 million games. Maybe Sonic isn't quite up there with Mario, Pokemon, Minecraft and GTA, but it is right up there with Zelda and Final Fantasy... and far above most game franchises. There is only so much room at the top.

@skywake I tried to get into Sonic. Bought the newest 2D game and thought it would be fun. Just can't really get into how fast the game is. It moves at a breakneck pace, and it feels like I can't really follow what's going on.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think Sonic's gameplay generally flat-out sucks. If a platformer utilises fast movement as its primary mechanic, while slapping you with unforeseeable pit deaths and monster encounters, relying on memorisation rather than skill/reaction, I think that's terrible design, and I'm out. I think the Sonic concept would have worked better as a rhythm game masquerading as a platformer rather than as a conventional platformer, but I suppose we may never know what the franchise may have looked like had it been steered in that direction.

And to say nothing of Sonic's general mediocrity to outright awfulness over the decades. Nintendo takes pride in the quality of their work while Sega merely hopes to capitalise on brand recognition. From a business perspective alone, the franchises are worlds apart.

I used to like Sonic as a kid, thinking he was "cool" and all, but take off the rose-tinted branding, and you have a series of all-too similar games that really aren't all that fun to play, and every demo that I've sampled in more recent years reminded me of everything that I dislike/hate about the franchise. It absolutely baffles me that it remains anywhere near as popular as it is given the general quality of its output.

I do recall somewhat enjoying Sonic Rush on DS back when, but I never cared enough to finish it (and I bought the sequel ahead of time, still unplayed). Maybe someday, but at the moment, I just don't care enough to revisit it when there's so much better elsewhere.

Jazz Jackrabbit by Epic (of Fortnite fame) in the 90s seemed to draw a lot of inspiration from the Sonic games, and I think Jazz surpassed Sonic in every conceivable way, being actually fun to play, overall better designed, and I think the character designs and art style was better too. It was the perfect marriage between speed and platforming, and it's a tremendous shame that the franchise was effectively shelved after just two instalments (not counting the GBA game). There was a third game in the works, a 3D platformer, for PC/PS2, but it was ultimately cancelled, and the series has sadly been dormant since 2002.

@Sisilly_G You mentioned demos... I am still impressed at how poorly designed the Sonic Frontiers demo is. That is not to say the game itself is bad (I haven't played the full game so don't have much opinion) but the demo itself was truly bad as a demo. Who makes a timed 15 minute demo where the only way to see any gameplay at all is to skip the background and explanations and just jump in not knowing what you're doing. 😛 And even after skipping everything you basically have time to sort of look around a sparse area and have one extremely mediocre fight and the demo is over. If people didn't already love sonic and want the game I have no idea why that demo would convince someone to buy the game.

@Sisilly_G I agree! Despite trying so hard to like Sonic games, I just find the gameplay contradicts itself by having you go really fast whilst being precise with your jumps and attacks like you said.

Funnily enough I actually think Sonic Dash the mobile game feels more natural to play than a lot of other entries in the series!

@FishyS Tried the demo recently and thanks to the time limit I came away feeling barely any different about the game😂

@FishyS : You think that's bad? 15 minutes sounds extremely generous when you compare it to Sonic Forces, which had a Japan-exclusive demo that was a one minute timed demo. And if that wasn't already hilariously bad enough, the demo pauses every few seconds to prompt a tutorial text box. 😅 It's every bit as awful as you would imagine.

It is by far the worst demo I have ever played, and the saddest part of all is that the game seemed to be decent in spite of it, and I really wanted the opportunity to actually sample the godforsaken thing, but I ultimately refused to buy it, even on sale, on principle, simply due to how shockingly bad the demo was.

I'm still utterly speechless.

Honestly? I think Mario games are S-tier and Sonic games are C-tier. Simple as that.

No offense to the diehard Sonic fans. If you feel Sonic is just as good or better, that's fine. It's all opinion at the end of the day. I just think the majority of people share the opinion that Sonic games aren't all that great.

As a kid I was in love with Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles. But as I got older I realized it wasn't because the games were all that great, I just really liked the characters.

Just because the games don't review as well as fans would like doesn't mean the franchise isn't successful. I mean they had two very successful movies with a 3rd on its way as well as tons of merchandise and plenty of comics and TV shows