Topic: The everything Xbox thread

That triple bundle was the physical Xbox 360 release and the physical and digital PS3 release.

@BlueOcean Well, the word "uglier" than the pretty version is accurate Maybe it can be interpreted as saying it's "ugly" but what I actually said was it's uglier [than the pretty mode], which is true

I'll eventually go back and play with 60fps mode again but every day I spin it up for 20 minutes or so in quality mode, and every day I'm just impressed by how that game looks at full quality. Not just the pure visuals but how impressively they handle the frame pacing and motion blur so that you don't really notice it's not 60fps. It's just so well made. It's really the understated highlight game of the month which even MS itself buried behind SotTR advertising.

MHW: Yeah I don't really know what happened there. They could get MH to play beautifully fluid on a 3DS....rendered twice in stereoscopic 3D, and can't get a freaking X1X to play smoothly. It's inexplicable. It's also inexplicable the Pro has more object density than the X, while the X still chugs at poor framerates. (I do recall the frame rate in resolution mode on the Pro was pretty unbearable, though. Maybe less unbearable on the X, but IMO resolution mode is just kind of unplayable in a "this frame pacing is kind of disorienting and lightly nauseating" kind of way with how MH requires violent spins of the camera at all times.) Pretty for still shots....pretty overall...but I'm not sure one can really play MH with the framerates of resolution mode.

The real shame is the high res textures are tied to resolution mode. Graphics mode doesn't use the high res textures and really suffers for it. But so far I thing graphics mode is the best compromise. Not a slideshow like resolution mode can be, but a little more "something" to it than performance mode. Especially since performance mode still doesn't really hit continuously superior framerates. Plus you can toggle back and forth between the two on the fly without restarting unlike resolution mode. I just wish I could use those nicer textures.

One issue in particular though is the whole game seems to have really bad gamma issues at least on the 1X....I think it's better on the Pro, not sure about S/Slim. I'm guessing it's part of a botched HDR conversion even if you don't have HDR. Everything looks whitewashed like the wrong black level is set. And they haven't fixed it in 9 months.

@NEStalgia Thanks, but if moving on is talking about PlayStation, then I'd rather not participate at all anymore.

One last thing, though: I think that what @BlueOcean means, is that ugly obviously has a negative connotation, and it doesn't matter if you use a derivative of that, or even if it is factually correct.

What also doesn't help is that the larger, more sheep-like online community is all too fast these days, with calling things/games ugly and/or outdated, if even the smallest pixel of it isn't drawn to their satisfaction.

So, in general, it's kind of a tired label, and one given far too easily, by FAR too many people.
Personally, as you might suspect, I like using positive connotations, so instead of saying that performance mode is uglier, I'd simply say that quality mode looks better/prettier, or that performance mode looks less good.

It's not as harsh as saying that it looks uglier, if you get what I'm trying to say. And the game still looks good regardless, so using the word ugly, or a derivative of it, is actually bad practice in that regard.

It's like having a pretty girlfriend or wife, but telling her she's uglier than Miss Universe, because she doesn't look as good as her. Good luck with that discussion...

@BkueOcean Yeah... I don't know what to tell you, man. A suggestion is just that, not an obligation. Why not ignore it, or make any of the other choices? I just don't see the problem there. You can select multiple things, it's not like the game is forcing you to ONLY select the nearest bucket list challenge.

And maybe try that full screen map option, that I suggested, which works just as good or even better, so that might be more to your liking. Everything can be found and planned from there, without ever needing to use the voice operated route planner.

@NEStalgia No sir, back to school with you! Ugly is literally "more ugly" and implies that both things are ugly to some extent and one is more than the other.

I am going to clarify what you are talking about Monster Hunter World because the truth is not exactly what you said. For instance, X has the same level of detail as Pro depending on the mode you use (those missing assets like bushes because of the draw distance are totally restored on Graphics Mode on X) and Pro is never better except for a few frames in Resolution Mode because Pro uses checkerboard and X uses native resolution. The gamma looks the same on both consoles, DF says that the game lacks contrast on both platform whether your TV is HDR or not.

Anyway, the reality based on technical analysis:

On Xbox One resolution is 1536x864p and frame rate is around 25-31. On PS4 resolution is 1920x1080p and frame rate is around 26-35.

On Xbox One X and PS4 Pro there are three modes: Graphics, Performance and Resolution. Xbox One X outperforms the Pro in Performance and Graphics modes but runs a bit slower overall in Resolution Mode because Pro uses checkerboard resolution. There is a missing feature on both consoles, a 30 fps cap to iron out the frame rate.

GRAPHICS - Best mode on X: more detail and unexpected balance in the frame rate.

This is the mode with the higher level of detail but same resolution as Perfomance Mode (1920x1080p), so you can toggle them in real time and compare the experience of graphics versus performance. This is where the largest gap between the two consoles show up. The game runs around 34 fps on Pro and 44 on X.

Conclusion: The level of detail is the highest, the performance is almost as good as in Performance Mode and the resolution is the only big sacrifice. This mode is more interesting on X.

RESOLUTION MODE - Higher resolution and more stable frame rate as a side effect.

Native 3072x1728p (x4 compared to Xbox One) on Xbox One X versus checkerboard 3200x1800p on PS4 Pro. Cleaner image on X. Only mode where the game runs a few frames faster on PS4 Pro. It's the mode where the game runs around 30 fps with stutter on both consoles.

Conclusion: Same (low) level of detail, better resolution and lower yet more stable frame rate than Performance Mode. It could be considered better than Performance Mode. It's worse than Graphics Mode, especially on X.

PERFORMANCE MODE - Unstable performance boost with additional sacrifices.

It's the same level of detail as Resolution Mode but the resolution goes down to 1920x1080p on both consoles. The performance boost is unstable though, it runs between 32 and 43 fps on PS4 Pro and 40-60 on X depending on the CPU/GPU load. One scenario runs 3 fps faster on X and another 10 fps faster on X.

Conclusion: Same (low) level of detail as Resolution Mode but lower resolution and higher yet more unstable frame rate. The only point that is better compared to Graphics Mode is that the frame rate is higher, but not always.

@ThanosReXXX We could talk about Wonderswan? @BlueOcean I still stick with "uglier" it's not incorrect even if it's not fluffy and positive sounding. Linguistically it's not incorrect usage so I'm sticking to that! That doesn't mean quality mode is ugly, it simply means the result is a negative comparison. The more you resist the more I'm sticking to it. I'm stubborn.

@BlueOcean MHW: Yeah I did gather all that from the video but I forgot about checkerboarding being the cause of the fps difference in resolution mode. I went by the res numbers forgetting it's really not that res on Pro. The contrast issues in the game are just plain weird though. It does render differently on the X and the Pro though for some reason (Deus Ex: MD does as well...though that also has a Pro patch while not having an X patch, so it's running sub-1080p on 1X and checkerboard on Pro with better textures, unfortunately.)

Good summary though. I came to that same conclusion without the detail while playing with it, so it's good to hear it confirmed.

@NEStalgia I'm with @BlueOcean (and the World Language Association) on this one: saying it is uglier, designates the other mode as ALSO being ugly, except to a lesser extent, simply because of the fact that uglier is an adjective of ugly, so they're always connected and mutually interchangeable: ugly - uglier, pretty - prettier, NOT ugly - prettier or pretty - uglier, so it's actually NOT linguistically correct, and I'm a linguaphile, so I tend to know these kinds of things.
It's actually one of the areas that I'M a perfectionist in...

You can try to defend it all day long, or stand on your head for days on end, that's not going to change anything. And being stubborn just for the heck of it, has run out of fashion ages ago. And this is coming from a person that has his picture next to the word in the dictionary...

Okay, getting WAY off topic now, so back to the Xboxen...

I wonder how people feel about this month's Games with Gold.

Never played Victor Vran, so I have literally no idea about that one. Looks a bit like a Diablo clone, or reminds me of those Van Helsing games, that are also on Xbox One.

@DarthNocturnal Well, if you liked any of the Splinter Cell or Metal Gear games, you may also like Hitman, and Stuntman Ignition is literally about playing a stuntman in movies, so you have to perform all kinds of stunts that will be used in all the in-game movies, except the frustrating part about it, in my opinion, is how near-flawless you need to perform them, lest you completely screw the entire stunt up, and the number of segments and/or the difficulty gets bigger with each consecutive stunt.

But if you DO pull them off, it feels really good, and overall, it's still an entertaining game. You just have to be able to stomach having to do a regular retry here and there...

@ThanosReXXX I swear you're the second most pedantic person I know

The little indie party games seem kinda cheap for giveaways considering the actual purchase price of most of these. Overcooked is actually on the better side of those though. Not for me, only really works with a crowd. It's $9.99 on Switch sale this week, and is really the kind of party game that thrives on Nintendo more than anything else. That said, it's also a game that was massively obsoleted by its sequel, so I'm not sure what value it has for free or on sale considering the sequel which is a full retail game but sells (when not on sale) for only $5 more...... It's not for me but OC2 looked fun if you have a party and a lot of controllers. OC1 seems kind of bare bones in contrast. (Treehouse has a long segment on 2 from this E3 if you're curious.)

Stunt man, I haven't tried it yet (why try it when I can compare foliage variations in FH4? ) but that sounds like exactly the kind of game I wouldn't like.

Hitman is Hitman so that's a big win. I loved the "reboot" game (but hated the episodic release nature of it.) I'm kind of looking forward to Hitman 2...almost preordered it...but I figure it'll be cheaper later, and include a bunch of DLC that's quasi essential, and having just played the first reboot in April, I might be a little fatigued from hiding in dumpsters and pantries to want to do it again quite yet But the disguising mechanic never gets old.

Victor Vran, they announced it was going to be a freebie a week after I bought it retail on Switch! Ugh! Yeah it's kind of a budget Diablo clone, but designed ground up for consoles rather than retrofitted so it's a little more action-y than the "click click click" translation of Diablo, Titan Quest etc. It's clearly a B-side of a game, but well done and stands up well next to Diablo.

@DarthNocturnal If you like stealth games and/or patiently hiding in the shadows and watching enemy patrol patterns Hitman is a lot of fun. It's not quite as technical as MGS (which drives me crazy) or as rigid as Splinter Cell. It's a "pure stealth" game mostly, and the older ones are more linear than the new reboot series but ultimately it's about casing the joint, watching patterns, and taking out enemies and stealing their clothes to blend in and access other areas you need to get to and taking out targets in various ways. And then getting out hopefully without being detected.

@ThanosReXXX @DarthNocturnal Overcooked is a fun little game but can be very very frustrating at times especially going for 3 stars on the levels. Definitely better in coop but be forewarned will certainly put relationships to the test lol.

@DarthNocturnal LOL it's so true. I was just giving Styx a spin the other day and it has that exact problem. I sneak up on the guy and suddenly he's onto me without even turning around! Interesting game though if you like old skool stealth....it's kind of a love letter to Thief with a more fun less gravelly/horror motif.

Hitman...not sure about the older ones anymore but the new series redeems itself with PC-style save anywhere. I just save before risking getting caught and can reload....but it does rack up a lot of play time just redoing things or waiting. I haven't figured out dishonored at all. It wants you to play it as a stealth game, but it's just so bad as a stealth game.

Hitman always redeems itself though when you can go into the high end hotel, down to the basement, take out a janitor, and wear his clothing to get into the service area, rig something to explode, use the distraction to get into the security office, take out a guard and take his clothes, to get into the kitchen, to take out a bartender and take his clothes to grab the drinks, stroll out to the rooftop party, take a station at the bar, put rat poison in the target's drinks, then casually follow him to the bathroom when he makes the run for it, and quietly drown him in the toilet. Then just casually stroll out of the building cool as a cucumber, knowing right about.....now......someone will find the body (as you get to the extraction, far, far away) It's tedious and requires patience, but darned if you don't feel like a master spy

@ThanosReXXX Yes, that's right. You have more patience with @NEStalgia than anyone else though.

Talking about the games, I still haven't played those so it's a good chance to try them. Child of Light is 70% with Gold if anyone is interested. I haven't played it but I'm not sure if I want another RPG. I recently finished Xenoblade Chronicles after all these years. The story is awesome but the game really has tested my patience in any imaginable way. They must be totally different though so not trying to compare them, just random thoughts of mine... Next year I'll be playing some more Final Fantasy games.

I recently finished Fable Anniversary which I absolutely loved except for the performance hiccups.

@DarthNocturnal I play AC as a stealth game, probably because I stared with the first one (stealth was critical until you make yourself, intentionally, publicly known as the assassin and have to run out with the whole town on your tail (I miss that element.) AC1 was more a true stealth game (Of course it, and AC2, were produced by Jade Raymond. She was also the producer of latter Splinter Cell games, so it's not too surprising.) Once she left (sadly, for the world, to go run the EA studio responsible for the atrocity that is Battlefront 2 ) the series gradually became less stealth oriented and more action oriented. Origins kind of got more stealthy again though. I fear Odyssey may not be. I still prefer to run everyone through with a hidden blade. The game has like 100 weapons. I use the hidden blade only.

LOL, I always try stealth with Arkham games, but it never works. I get caught in the first minute and then it becomes a brawl. But it's awesome when it works and you can hide up in the rafters. The banter of the terrified enemies is fun

@BlueOcean I'll cede Xeno games are......an acquired taste. I haven't fully acquired that taste as much as some like EvilLucario but I've adapted a bit more to it than yourself. I can say that gameplay wise Torna gets it right across the board. Shame it's not the full length adventure because they streamlined it the way it ought to have been to begin with.

Child of Light is a turn-based experience when in the battle screen with an ATB type system. Technically so is XC...but....we'll say CoL is traditional while XC is avante garde in love it or hate it ways.

@DarthNocturnal @NEStalgia I have only played Assassin's Creed 1 because last generation I only had a Wii. Sad, I know, but now I am playing remastered versions on X which feels great. I loved it more than I thought that I would so I am buying all the others when I see a good deal. Having played Fable and AC1 recently I was also surprised by how many gameplay and interaction ideas Ubisoft took from Fable.

EDIT: Key Lionhead Studios members left the company before Microsoft closed the studio so if the new Fable is made by another studio doesn't really make a difference. I am also a bit disappointed that this franchise didn't get more recognition.

@DarthNocturnal AC1 X-enhanced so in a way is a remastered version, not just the resolution but they improved something else according to Digital Foundry.

I got the II/Brotherhood/Revelations remaster, I will wait for III to be remastered, got IV, Unity and Syndicate as well. Will get Rogue Remastered perhaps. And Origins and Odyssey...

I should play II next, but I wonder if it will be X-enhanced too?

@BlueOcean I personally still love the first one most. It's the unpopular opinion for sure, but there was something about the steath focus, the long setup to the assassinations and that the assassinations felt significant, and public, that hasn't been replicated since. I love the whole series, but I always compare it to that one. The series overall gets a lot of heat for being the epitome of mass market bubblegum games, but somehow I find it really really immersive and fun.

You're definitely playing the series at its best though. I played 1 on PC (I didn't have consoles at all at the time) and it really was much better than on consoles at the time, but strugged on my aging PC. On the X it looks better than it did on PC at the time and plays smoother! That's not a remaster, just the X1 enhancements on BC!

The remasters really are well done. I assume you're playing the Ezio Collection versions...that's a nice kit that I have to get back to at some point...it has content I missed the first time through. My play history has been so scattered over platforms. 1: PC. 2, Brotherhood: PS3. Revelations: 360. Unity, still haven't managed to convince myself to start it yet. 3 and Black Flag: WiiU. Liberation: Vita. Syndicate PS4 (it looks waaaay better on X), Origins and Odyssey are all X. It's nice having them all on one platform, and they all look better on it.

Have you played 3 yet? 3 was...weird. Not very stealthy and did a lot of things very wrong in very empty, sparse environments and emphasized melee combat. The upcoming remaster, supposedly is more of an overhaul, adding a lot of desnity in the environments, revamping some gameplay mechanics and basically reworking it to be an actual AC game. I'm looking forward to that because 3 was a low point of the series (other than Unity that didn't even function out of the box.) Odyssey season passes include the 3 remaster (and afaik the Liberation remaster with it.)

@DarthNocturnal Origins? It's very stealth. It's kind of like MGSV applied to an AC game where you send out the drone...err...bird....to scout out a compound, and then plot out your route. Like all the modern ACs you can play it as God of Assassin if you want, but it actually has pretty solid stealth for the first time in ages. Odyssey on the other hand....I'm uncertain so far but the whole skill tree for assassins gives me hope.

Yeah I knew BF2 had the loot boxes removed, but I hadn't realized Motive only did the solo (I.E. the good part) I actually like the solo campaign. I can't see myself playing the online though.

@BlueOcean I'm betting they save the Ezio Collection second remaster for next gen. That's still their biggest trilogy in terms of popularity so they can use that as testbed for their next engines and still guarantee tons of sales even if it's a so-so half baked effort.

@NEStalgia Good to know about the Odyssey deal. Comment #5,132 lists the ones I have and have played. In short, I have only played AC1 on X. This is probably sacrilege on NL but I liked it more than Breath of the Wild (end of our short-lived agreement I guess ). I am not sure but could it be that AC Odyssey uses some of the good ideas of Breath of the Wild?

AC1 had a lot of hype and "this is what cool dudes play" but it's actually good! Now that you mention it I tried IV on Wii U but I sold it after one hour because the frame rate is absolute unbearable for my brain. Next one that I play should be II (Remastered), but will it be X-enhanced too like all the others, including 1?

On a side note, I am really excited by the possibility of Fable 4 even considering that the original team are working in different companies now and that it would be made by a new team.

If PS5 has backwards compatibility with PS4 games, I think Ubisoft will remaster AC1 and include the PSP game Bloodlines as a last current gen AC game (either before next gen starts or a Rogue type situation). They have nothing to lose by putting the entire franchise excluding DS and mobile games on current gen.