Topic: The Megami Tensei Thread

@Ralizah By technicality Apocalypse isn't a follow up since it takes place in an alternate timeline adjunct from the original game's events but yeah tonally it's completely different. Unfortunately the story suffers from the change in tone because I just didn't connect with these characters the same way I did with Isabeau, Toki, Gaston or Nozomi.

@Alex90 It's pretty funny how SMT IV/IV A and even Persona 5 are jokingly regarded as edgy athiest games when Nocturne is a game I'd consider the hard rock equivalent to a christian movie on PureFlix

@TheFrenchiestFry Yeah. It's a shame that mechanics what I enjoy the most (The monster-catch collection, the fusion system, the press turn battle) is in a series of games that are not recommended for Christians. I mean real Christians, not "cherry-and-pick" Christians.
Basically, the devs enjoy giving Satan (don't really matter if they represent Lucifer not being Satan) more story and character development than the celestial Father!
Me: He is supposedly so holy even Seraphs don't dare to watch Him.
Atlus devs: What? No, instead of giving Him a decent representation, give him in every game the villain treatment.

And Now, with Shin Megami Tensei V... God is dead. Wtf They don't even try something different.

Remember Strange Journey Redux new Law ending, they off God of the equation: Atlus hate God! Why? They don't even know why!

@TheFrenchiestFry The game still basically branches off from IV's neutral route and assumes a basic familiarity with some of the cast and events of IV (although, as stated, they do a good job of documenting this for new players as well), so it's still, for all intents and purposes, a follow-up, something that builds on the foundations of the original, even if it's not necessarily a same-universe sequel.

Anyway, are you saying you didn't connect with the returning characters from IV as much as the original characters from IV: Apocalypse?

@Alex90 Christianity doesn't have much of a presence in Japan one way or the other, so I sincerely doubt the developers think any more deeply about Judeo-Christian elements in their games than they do about the elements cribbed from other religions and world mythologies. The games are just meant to be entertaining dark fantasy narratives.

As to why Satan/Lucifer is given more development? Likely the same reason he's given more development in every religiously-themed narrative written since Paradise Lost (which, far more than anything in scripture, is one of the primary sources of the modern Christian conception of 'the devil'): he's an inherently more interesting and dramatic character than YHWH.

@Ralizah Yeah basically, but even then I still preferred the returning characters from IV and how they were written in the original game as opposed to Apocalypse. I thought they fleshed out considerably better in the former game and the general tone wasn't nearly as much of a distraction in SMT IV either.

As posted a few pages ago I started with Apocalypse, and then became a massive fan of the series. It’s really accessible and the gameplay is refined. Playing it before IV I’ve ended up loving both. Whereas people who play IV first often are less impressed by Apocalypse.

Has anyone played around with the mobile game DX2? I’ve downloaded it then deleted it a couple of times. The usual reason for this kind of game that it seems a bit shallow obviously, so first impressions for me aren’t great. I’ve just downloaded it again to give it another try when on holiday.

It’s a good thing my favourite part is the download screen with the demon compendium info as that’s where I’ve spent most of my time!

Apparently the Ace Attorney artist does the character designs?

I hear pvp can be fun for series vets if you know what you are doing in building a team, and it’s not pay to win if you are willing to invest the time grinding.

@Alex90 yeah SMT X FE turned out weird and failed as a crossover but I found the idol trappings of Tokyo Mirage Session is an interesting idea. I just wished the overworld and dungeon puzzles were better.

@Krull Thank you for mentioning the eshop sale! I picked up both Apocalypse and Strange Journey Redux thanks to you. These games seem to sell for a small fortune for their physical editions.

Edit: I hope Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker goes on sale sometime, too.

@JoeDiddley What I can say about Apocalypse:

• Better map, pinning the quests on the second screen. Adios "what the hell I am supposed to go" syndrome from IV.
  Better companions, except for Gaston, eff Gaston. They know what to do, especially Navarre -with me taunting the enemies and he uses Dekunda stones. Bye-bye "I'm stuck with Walter on the Minotaur fight" BS from IV
• Better smirk system and add a way to remove entirely. Thank you Magaon! Though with this system, Salvation only cures all ailments with a smirk now. Some OP moves from IV is now okay-ish in IV: A
• Better fusion system, with affinities.

Yeah, that kinda sums it up. Overall, despite everything @Ralizah aka "Big Sis Junko" said, IV has more to offer. 3 endings pretty good, side quest exclusives in every path, I really feel like Apocalypse don't deliver the same quality stuff that IV has to offer. Better gameplay, but the story is shoehorned Neutral.

@Alex90 yeah, this is why I appreciated playing them the wrong way around. Apocalypse was more accessible, and IV was deeper but not as beginner friendly. So I’m commenting from my experience of what was better to start with, but not which is the better game.

Okay, I have time now and need to practice writing, then what about speculating what features the battle system of SMT V will have. I mean, I don't have standards high but SMT V battle mechanics being the same as Nocturne is not ok. Nocturne is fine for a 2003 game. But will Atlus bring more with the smirk system from IV and/or something else new entirely? The combo feature of DDS is awesome, but I fear that just works because of the fixed party members. In SMT your companions are your demons, who you constantly switching for better demons... maybe that weakens implementing the combo system, but I will be pleased to watch a BLACK SUN animation again

I didn't get on with the combos in DDS, personally, and mostly ignored that feature. In general, I feel like the mantra grid in that game wasn't a good replacement for demons, either, and its presence encourages grinding for AP, which I find distasteful.

Although I'll be playing the second DDS next month, so we'll see if my feelings on that system changes at all.

I wouldn't mind if the smirk system returned (in its more balanced, post-IV: Apocalypse form, anyway), but I feel like Atlus is going to distance itself a bit from the 3DS entries with SMT V.

@Ralizah It's been said already that the gameplay is going to be some sort of fusion between Nocturne's battle system and SMT IV's demon fusing from what's been stated in interviews

It looks like they're bringing together elements from both handheld and home console entries of the series

I noticed that eshop sale as well, and caved. At just over £8 each for SMT IV Apocalypse and Strange Journey Redux, I couldn't resist. Their physical editions are expensive around here, and I doubt the eshop price will ever get much cheaper than the current price.

Not sure when I'll get around to playing them, but SMT is the kind of series that grows on me the more I play them and hear about them.

@crimsontadpoles Yeah it looks like SMT IV's physical price on sites like Amazon and eBay has already begun to creep up, and a physical copy for Persona 4 Golden on PS Vita is nearing 100 bucks these days

The eShop sale is probably your best bet, and it's well worth it because the SMT entries on 3DS are great, especially Strange Journey Redux, Soul Hackers and SMT IV. Persona Q2 is also pretty underrated but that's more of an unfortunate consequence of when it came out

In the States, you can find most of Atlus' PS2 SMT and Persona games for good prices online (well, most of them; the Raidou Kuzunoha games are super expensive), whereas pretty much all of the 3DS games are $100+ a pop. It's nuts.

@TheFrenchiestFry @crimsontadpoles Dang it! I got SMT IV:A - should I be getting Strange Journey too? I got Etrian Odyssey Nexus, and felt with Apocalypse that was enough DRPGs to be getting on with...

@Krull If you're already playing SMT IV A, just play that one for the time being. Strange Journey requires a lot more dedication. It's a Megami Tensei fan's Megami Tensei game. It's hard as hell and you need to get used to the systems in MT first to understand what you're dealing with

A lot of people complain about how much the PSP Remake of P2 Innocent Sin favors the player with stuff like how while you're running in dungeons your party's SP gauges replenish automatically but honestly if anything for me it just makes grinding to get overlevelled a lot easier combined with the ridiculous encounter rate

A lot of times as I stand outside an area meant to trigger a boss cutscene, I'll just start running around in circles to get my SP gauge up and initiate demon encounters either to grind for levelling up, getting more money so I can purchase more weapons and accessories at places like Tony's Shop or maxing out the amount of cards in a specific Arcana I can carry by negotiating with specific demons

The encounter rate is annoying but I just love grinding in MegaTen games so I don't care lol

@TheFrenchiestFry Thank you! I think that’s exactly what I needed to hear. Think I may start Apocalypse tonight.