Topic: Darksiders 3 Announced!

@NEStalgia I can understand the sentiment and the need, but personally, I just don't think that languages other than the original are the best in games and movies, and especially in Hollywood blockbusters and action type movies, I'd think you would want to hear the actual actor/actress, since its often times their performance that makes or breaks the movie. Having that done by a foreigner, no matter how good he or she is, is still a detriment to that original performance.

That's why I'm actually pretty happy living over here in Amsterdam: the Dutch also don't believe in dubs, so everything is subbed, and the only exception is Disney and other animations, which are translated/dubbed in the cinema, so smaller children can enjoy them too. But of course, I would always watch the originals. And so much also goes to waste in dubs: take the ghost in Aladdin for example: Robin Williams, a force of nature himself, which should not be bastardized by some dubber, does a few picture perfect impersonations of other famous American actors, with their own voice. You just can't translate that, or it will lose it's power and intensity.

When I was younger, I was all about being against society and going against the stream. I wore buttons and on one of them it said "eat sh**, 60 billion flies can't be wrong".

The reason that I'm mentioning that, is to address the not so logical reason for dubs to me. I understand why people want them, because it represents familiarity and convenience, but just because so many people/countries have dubs, doesn't mean that they are good or the best. George Clooney for example, has a very specific voice and way of acting, that cannot be adequately imitated in another language in my opinion.

And me liking the original material also extends into Japanese voice acting: in my opinion, nothing beats Japanese emotions in all of their various ranges, and monster voices in Japanese are simply stellar to me. Whenever possible, I always watch my animes subbed, to get the original feeling. You do not have to speak or master a language to feel/experience the emotion of it.

@Tsurii Yeah, I guess we did, sorry about that. Guess you hit a nerve...
Other people commenting on me again isn't really helping stopping the derailment either....
But I understand your points and fair enough for wanting what you feel most comfortable with. Guess it's the same for me.

Anyway, I did comment on the actual topic as well, so we can go from there from now on.

@ThanosReXXX I do agree with you where live action is concerned. I also find it jarring...heck I find the Nintendo Direct presentations jarring when they have Trinnen overdub Miyamoto, though in part that's because I know Trinnen and Miyamoto's own voices, so it's kind of doubly jarring. I may not know Japanese but I know when Miyamoto is talking only by sound at this point

Though something like Alf, IMO if you don't understand the language you're just not going to get the show. Neither dubs nor subs can really salvage it. (Have you seen the cat?)

"ake the ghost in Aladdin for example: Robin Williams, a force of nature himself, which should not be bastardized by some dubber, does a few picture perfect impersonations of other famous American actors, with their own voice. "

Ahh Robin Williams Sad that he's gone, and sad that he'd almost faded into obscurity for a decade and a half or so prior when he still could have gone with the intensity of 3 people at once. Sure, he was overexposed in the 90's but that wasn't such a bad thing in retrospect. Yeah I agree, even though it was animation, that was hard to dub with any meaning, BUT without understanding the context it really didn't make much sense outside the US except maybe to film buffs anyway. Maybe to the arthouse set, but not to general audiences.

" George Clooney for example, has a very specific voice and way of acting,"
Unfortunately the descriptive word can not be printed on a family friendly site such as this.... (Couldn't resist! I couldn't stand him on ER and I can't stand him now with the lone exception of O Brother Where Art Thou. It worked because his character was basically himself, and it was twice as funny because it was so clear he didn't even realize that. )

I'm fairly ambivalent about it, as a gamer I'm used to reading my spoken dialog, so I do it even when there's English dialog out of habit. If there's an English voice option I use it. I've listened to the voices in games that only have Japanese, and I love the characters and voices, but I wouldn't love them any less with quality English acting, and similarly games with quality English acting, when I turn on the Japanese it often sounds either over the top or monotone and every character sounds the same. I don't magically like them more. Live action I do dislike an overdub.....I'll watch Wu Xia films subbed...the non-lip-synched dubbing by some blond actor is simply awful. Yet I have no reason to hear cartoon-Zelda speak specifically in Japanese versus English when neither language is specific to the character. Going back to Aladdin, there's nothing really wrong, kind of like theater, putting on a different show in every country. You can run Hamlet in London, Berlin, and New York with different casts using the same script. No reason Japan's Genie has to be the same actor playing the role as our Genie. Robin was Robin, he played the role in our version and it was the best, sure, but I'm sure Japan's actor did a great job for the character if not compared to Robin . Not EVERY Macbeth can feature McKellen & Dench, but it doesn't make them bad.

BTW, on your other thread with gc, I got a notification from you a week or two ago that was blank as well, and clicking it took me to your profile. I think NL throws some weird emails for some reason at times.

@NEStalgia I'm not going to answer in an elaborate manner, since I've already discussed with Tsurii that I was derailing this comment section, which SHOULD be about Darksiders 3, but suffice to say that, as I've already said, I really DO understand the sentiment of dubs for all the various reasons there are, and I also agree that there are great actors all around the world, voice actors as well, but I personally prefer them as themselves, not as a substitute for the real thing.

Maybe Clooney wasn't the best example for you, but I have a great amount of respect for the man as a person, and I do like his movies as well, so I guess it's a taste thing, but besides that, you could have taken any actor or actress that you liked. It was just to stress the point that a dub replaces a very well known/famous person with some faceless person, which in my opinion is a detriment to the original performance. And no amount of discussion is going to change that view, so maybe we ought to drop it and stick to the topic at hand, which this thread is really about.

You can blame me for starting this whole "I don't like dubs" thing...

@ThanosReXXX I think the fact that there's relatively no conversation beyond this in the Darksiders 3 thread probably is not boding well for a Switch port of Darksiders 3

Though I'll join you in being annoyed by the weird switch of War, Famine, Pestilence and Death. Why change your source material which was a really cool basis in gaming which is often stagnant to something different?

Also, remember in II (I don't know about the first game but definitely the second) where death kept talking about his brothers, his brothers, his brothers. "Fury" does not look like a brother here... Maybe Fury is NOT one of the Horsemen but a different character and that's yet to be explained? Or they're redesigning the characters and lore to suit demographic surveys? I realize it's a new publisher, but I can't tell if this is something that fits the story or if they're retconing it for business purposes.

@NEStalgia She ain't heavy... she's my brother...

Well, if they're retconing it to make it more relate-able for modern demographics or someone's wallet, then we might as well take into account that the fourth character, which is supposed to be Famine, is going to be a black guy. For a modern take on the story, it could make sense, since there is a lot of famine in Africa...

But personally, I'd like to see the pale rider on a sickly green horse, reeking of death and despair, just like in the original prophecy...

I think the game itself will actually come to the Switch, as well as the 2 re-designed previous parts. If anything, THQ Nordic's willingness to release Darksiders Warmastered on a nearly dead console should speak volumes of their support for Nintendo, so I see no reason why it won't be on the Switch, especially if Nintendo can keep the popularity of the system ongoing throughout this year and the next.

@ThanosReXXX Well they never SHOWED us the 4 so there's nothing story breaking about making one of them a particular ethnicity, but gender changing a character after being called "brothers" for at least one (or both) prior installment(s) is a little like changing an actor in the sequel and pretending nothing's changed Though they all seem a little too human. War and Death were very...."not quite human." It seems like a massive do-over to suit modern tastes.

Let me guess it will no longer be Zeltroidvania, but an open world where you cook things and climb a lot, right?

But yeah, I mean they made Death fit the role. "Fury" is so generic....so he's a she, and she's just generic-angry-figher 32-G? Conquest/Pestilence or Famine are themes like Death you can play on. War was generic, but less generic than "Fury". At least the odd choice of the name goes to the original design. Famine could have been non-human like Death. Could have been interesting.

But yeah business wise, Nintendo seems the perfect fit for them, it's basically a Zelda fan project in different clothing from the start. The audience is built in. And if everyone that bought a Switch bought Zelda, that bodes well for a series also based on it. And I'd love to have the whole trilogy on Switch. One of the WiiU's best early games was DS2.

Watching the trailer again there's a moment at the very start that looks like her silhouette is bulkier....maybe there's a transformation element in the story to make it make sense. I'd be ok with that.

Also forgot to mention that whip mechanic makes me think Castlevania. Zelda x Castlevania. All we need is some Metroid thrown in and they might as well make it Switch exclusive

@NEStalgia Well they never SHOWED us the 4

I do think they did, yeah. Can't remember if it was in the first one or in supplementary material (comics about the franchise, maybe), but I think it's been known for a while that Fury was a woman. Which can be a bit weird, considering Death referring to them as 'brothers', but given that he's talking about the last surviving members of the Nephilim, he might be using the term in a metaphorical sense.

@MarcelRguez Ahh interesting. If it was in the first then there's no change, and 2 was the broken one with all the "brothers" stuff, but if it was supplimentary, i generally don't view that stuff, and always assume its non canon.

Pretty sure death want speaking metaphorically though...they either made this concept afterward or whoever wrote 2 messed up badly

I get the idea they're going for in theming her: "h*** hath no fury..." though hopefully it doesn't go 1d cliche which would be too easy for them to do.

@MarcelRguez
Yeah Fury was depicted as a woman in the prequel comic:

The comic came with the first game, so she has been a woman since the start of the series

@NEStalgia
The comic is canon, you get to see why War has a shiny big arm.

I agree with this, or at least that's how I'm choosing to interpret it for now (No, I haven't played the first two yet, but I seem to recall the "brothers" terminology from a trailer or something....).

Too, it must be remembered that Darksiders II was created before THQ went under, so it could be that they had different plans for the remaining two Horsemen.

Edit: Forget that last paragraph, just saw shaneoh's post.

Oh right, that's interesting. So I guess the other dude is the remaining one.
What's his name? "Naughtiness" or something?
He looks like a better design than her.

Oh, I just got it:
Hell hath no Fury like a woman scorned.

@Dezzy
Strife.

There was once a fifth horseman, Kaos, but he left them before they were famous because of artistic disagreements.

@shaneoh

I scorned a woman once. She just ignored it Aphorisms are rubbish.

@Dezzy
Are you sure she felt scorned? You felt scorn towards her, but that's not enough, she has to feel scorned.

@shaneoh Never knew about that comic. I played the first game on the Xbox 360, but there was no comic in the box of that one. So they already f***ed up the story right from the start. Bummer...

The final character at least looks somewhat like an avatar of Famine, so I can live with that one, but the names of the last two characters suck and have nothing to do with the actual four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And the hint to what they should have been is already in there: the four HorseMEN...

Oh well, I thoroughly enjoyed the first two games, so if they can capture the same look and feel in the next two games, then I'll probably still play them all the same. But it is still a shame, though...

@Dezzy I scored a woman once, but she couldn't count...

@ThanosReXXX
It came with my steam version of the game, I can't speak for the other versions of the game. But yeah they buggered up the origins for the Horsemen.

As for Horsemen, well the "Three Horseman and one Horsewoman," or the "Horsepeople" of the Apocalypse doesn't have the same ring to it. A chairman position can be held by a woman and all that (I'm seriously not calling them a chairperson), and a man can be a midwife (funny, we don't see people up in arms to change the name to "midspouse"). Pestilence could have been Conquest (one of two possible names for that Horsemen) and could have worked, but I don't see an enjoyable take on Famine.

So they half released a comic.... but are we sure they released it at the start years ago or added to top later releases? We know the story is fubar somewhere but do we know for sure is the sequel authors that broke the wagon?

The concept for her seems "fine" but i dread the liklihood that is just another angry/vengeful 1D gaming cliche like 90% of other western AAAs. Death was an interesting antihero. War was an interesting embodiment of concept. Fury is just "angry hero" again. Hopefully the make it interesting!

@shaneoh well thete was am enjoyable take on Death so im sure famine can be a blast