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Topic: Disappointed by the lack of new exclusives

Posts 281 to 300 of 449

Buizel

@BlueOcean where is the comparison though? By your definition, what in-house AAA games was Nintendo developing on the Wii U and Wii (and gamecube even) that they're not giving us on the Switch?

The only thing that comes to mind is Mario Kart.

Previously "timleon" and "HunterLeon"

Currently playing: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond, Shin Megami Tensei V, Ghost of Tsushima

Banjo-

@Buizel On Wii we had 3 Marios, 1 Mario Kart, on Wii U we had 2 Marios and 1 Mario Kart. On Wii we had Skyward Sword, on Wii U we had Breath of the Wild. On Switch, 1 Mario, 0 Mario Kart and 0 Zelda. @faint The pandemic didn't affect developers as much as you think but if I buy your argument, the pandemic was last year, what other pandemics happened in 2016-2020?

I'm not counting the DS and 3DS games!

Edited on by Banjo-

Banjo-

Buizel

@BlueOcean Are you not including Mario Maker? Splatoon? Those would skew the numbers further towards the more recent consoles.

Also I'd argue that whether or not BotW is an exclusive is kinda irrelevant, its very much a reason to own the Switch the same way TP was for the Wii (although that would be +1 for Wii).

We also have the sequel to BotW coming next year.

Previously "timleon" and "HunterLeon"

Currently playing: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond, Shin Megami Tensei V, Ghost of Tsushima

Bolt_Strike

@BlueOcean I'll have to look through the past lineups a bit more in depth to do a full comparison, but I'm pretty sure that the Switch is not the reason for that. As I told @NEStalgia, the Wii U was also lacking similar games, in fact they were lacking even more than the Switch did even when you take into account that they didn't have nearly as many ports as the Switch has. The Wii was also very casual focused and they emphasized smaller scale games so you could also make an argument that that was the beginning as well. Again, it's probably more an issue of Nintendo having to adapt to HD development than Nintendo just getting lazier, HD has been infamous for extending development times and requiring much more manpower and money to get right, so of course you're going to have less games on the Switch than on older, lower definition hardware like the N64, GC, or 3DS. No one who knows anything about how game development works should be expecting Nintendo to recreate those kinds of lineups on an HD console without a massive increase in staff (and again, they can only improve that so quickly, do you really think they'll be able to add hundreds of developers at the snap of a finger?). All things considered, I think they're doing a great job adapting. This feels like the "true" successor to the GC in terms of the quantity and scale of games that a console like that had. Could they be doing better? Of course, you can always do better. But I wouldn't say the lineup is totally unacceptable given the circumstances.

And as far as having X number of games for an IP on a particular console/generation, I would be careful of that. Too many games at once and the developers can run out of ideas and the games feel stale and boring. The early 2010s had a ton of Mario games (SMG2, NSMB2, NSMBU, NSLU if you count that separately from NSMBU, Super Mario 3D World, Super Mario Maker) but many of them felt sort of samey and soulless so you really have to question if it was worth it to have all of those games in such a short period of time. I also have similar questions about Splatoon 3 (although since it's not out yet, we don't know for sure), it just looks like more of the same and hasn't really done much to evolve or shake up the formula so I really have to wonder why they're so insistent on releasing it in 2022 on the Switch instead of waiting until next gen and doing something potentially bigger and better. The lack of multiple entries for an IP you're pointing out seems to be a quantity vs. quality issue.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

I’d personally say BotW, in the state it was released, was primarily a Switch game.

They completely stripped it off it’s WiiU features, it’s almost like they only released that version out of courtesy, because they had already announced it.

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

@Eel I think that's exactly what they did. At that point, they probably decided the Wii U was a lost cause and BotW wouldn't save it, but they didn't want to risk upsetting loyal fans by pulling it and making it a Switch exclusive.

We might see that strategy again with BotW2 and/or Prime 4. Although in this case, the Switch is most certainly NOT a lost cause, but if their release date comes too close to the next gen console's release date it might be better for them to make them cross gen. Then depending on whether the Switch or the next gen console is more successful at that point, they'll get a piece of it no matter what.

Bolt_Strike

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Banjo-

@Buizel Super Mario Maker 2 is a Wii U expansion, just like Splatoon 2. They are basically expanded Wii U ports. Breath of the Wild is a Wii U game and that matters when analysing the games developed by Nintendo for Switch, yes.

@Bolt_Strike Yes, HD development is more demanding than SD development and UHD is more demanding than HD development but bear in mind that Nintendo's games are cartoony, so it's much simpler to make them HD. It's not Resident Evil VIII that has a ridiculously massive amount or work behind, detailed textures, detailed animation, detailed environments, etc. (I'm avoiding using Xbox and Sony games just in case anyone feels offended).

@Eel Breath of the Wild was finished in early 2016 so it's a Wii U game that was ported to Switch. We are talking about facts, not about feelings. The fact that they removed the GamePad features doesn't change a thing.

Banjo-

Eel

@BlueOcean I’m sorry but people can state their opinion and go on tangents as long as it doesn’t derail the entire thread too much.

Please do not try to moderate the thread.

@Bolt_Strike I sure hope they don’t move them completely! I like the courtesy pity releases.

Though I do wish for them to release these sooner than later…

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

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Banjo-

@Eel No need to get offended like that. You said that BotW is primarily a Switch game, it isn't, that's what I said. I didn't offend you nor moderate anything. If you feel it is, it's your feelings. I'm trying to be objective, if you feel that BotW is not a Wii U game because they removed the GamePad features and that it's primarily a Switch, feel free, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a Wii U game.

Banjo-

Bolt_Strike

@BlueOcean I'm not so sure Nintendo's games being more cartoony matters much, that seems to be more of an artstyle difference than a detail difference. They still have to make large, realistically designed game maps and detailed textures (and no, they still do need to make detailed textures as SwSh proved), and that's probably where the bulk of the work is going. They might be saving some time by excluding unnecessary details on background elements the player can't interact with, but that's about it.

Bolt_Strike

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Buizel

BlueOcean wrote:

@Buizel Super Mario Maker 2 is a Wii U expansion, just like Splatoon 2. They are basically expanded Wii U ports. Breath of the Wild is a Wii U game and that matters when analysing the games developed by Nintendo for Switch, yes.

Okay, by these criteria then:

  • We should exclude Galaxy 2 because it is an expansion
  • We should arguably exclude NSMBU and NSMBWii because they are DS expansions. And if we were to go extreme, the same for 3D World (although of all comments here I'd say that's a stretch)
  • We should exclude BotW for Wii U because its not an exclusive (was released simultaneously on Switch)

This is where applying arbitrary criteria inevitably puts you.

Edited on by Buizel

Previously "timleon" and "HunterLeon"

Currently playing: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond, Shin Megami Tensei V, Ghost of Tsushima

Banjo-

@Buizel

· You can't compare Super Mario Galaxy 2 with Splatoon 2 or Super Mario Maker 2 in terms of development time/efforts.
· Same for NSMBWii and NSMBU as if they are DS expansions.
· That's another mistake, I didn't say that BotW is a Wii U exclusive, I said that it's a Wii U game so it was developed for Wii U and all the time and effort was made before 2016, for a Wii U game. BotW on Switch is a port.

Banjo-

Banjo-

@Bolt_Strike Yes, the cartoony games require work but not as much as games like REVIII and also, it's much easier to make a HD cartoony game.

Banjo-

Bolt_Strike

@Eel It's even less likely they'd move them from the Switch because it's been much more successful than the Wii U, then they could really be costing themselves a ton of money. It'd probably take an utter disaster for those games to not release on Switch. But I do think given the timing and lack of a solid release window, a cross-gen release is definitely on the table for those two.

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

@Bolt_Strike I think BotW2 might be safe for next year (hopefully). Metroid Prime 4 though… It seems it has been having a rough development history. So perhaps that one could indeed end up in a dual release situation.

I think we also have good chances of getting another exclusive main Pokémon game on the Switch before a replacement comes.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

@Eel They didn't sound too confident in the 2022 release window for BotW2, so I'm still kind of skeptical. I do think it's less likely that BotW2 becomes cross gen than Prime 4 if only because we actually have gameplay footage of BotW2 as opposed to just a logo for Prime 4, but I'm not quite ready to write off the possibility of BotW2 being delayed into 2023 and ending up cross-gen because they're also targeting 2023 for the next gen console.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Banjo-

@Bolt_Strike WIth that I agree, I'm pretty sure that Switch 2 will launch in late 2022 or early 2023 with BotW2. I think that Metroid Prime 4 is further away.

Banjo-

Eel

Oh wow that sounds so… quick?

Might be just because I’m used to traditional handhelds that get closer to being active almost entire decades...

Then again I do suppose releasing a new console doesn’t equal instant discontinuation… They could also do something more gradual than an outright replacement…

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

My dead channel.

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

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Bolt_Strike

@BlueOcean Holiday 2022 does sound a bit too early, I'm thinking either Spring 2023 or Holiday 2023.

@Eel Yeah, that's another thing. I don't think they'll instantly drop the Switch once the successor is out. It's way too profitable to do that, they could probably squeeze some more money out of it even after the next gen console is out. I'm thinking more than they'll do what Microsoft and Sony have been doing for their next gen consoles (which is also kind of what happened with the 3DS to a limited degree), develop some cross gen titles for a year or two and give people time to transition and then after about 2 or 3 years, stop making titles for the Switch.

Bolt_Strike

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BruceCM

It's likely they'd make the Switch successor able to play current Switch games, anyway.... It's more likely they want to stretch the current Nintendo gen out, so it could be that there's an upgraded Switch going to release with BotW 2

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