@chipia I felt disappointed from probably summer 2018 up until Animal Crossing New Horizons in 2020. Nintendo came out swinging in 2017, and I did think that they were outputting close to what I would expect from a two system year on Switch. Afterward the next two years felt really uninteresting outside of their few holiday games. I came back to experience 2019's Ring Fit Adventure later on, so 2019 was better than Sword & Shield, but it still doesn't hold up to that initial momentum.
The problem I think is the lack of a willingness to develop smaller projects. Every release they have come out with seems to stay consistent, they all look like they could only be Wii U or Switch level projects. That's great aside from the fact that they're going to have down years before Nintendo can pick up their momentum again. Unlike some others in this topic excusing 2020 and 2021 over the pandemic, I think the last two years have been great in terms of games from Nintendo, much better than 2018 and 2019. 2020 suffered more from the lack of general Nintendo Directs. I wonder how okay Nintendo's audience would be if they ever decided to make a new game that looked like it could be on the DS or 3DS and sold the game at $34.99 or $39.99, matching the general release prices of those handheld generations?
I think what I miss the most from the Switch era are the handheld generation experiences. The handhelds, maybe due to being weaker hardware to their console partners, had Nintendo lean more into style and creativity in the absence of power. I'm not saying that the Nintendo Wii and Wii U didn't have their share of creative experiences, but aside from Mario, I think down the line both the DS and 3DS had the more creative games in their established IPs.
@Grumblevolcano The 4th Pikmin game came out on the 3DS in 2017, and although it's not the same style of game, Hey! Pikmin is much better than it has been made out to be. I also think it's safe to say that "Pikmin 4" in terms of how the fanbase views Pikmin 4 is not a thing given that the next, and very recent, release that follows Hey! Pikmin is Pikmin Bloom.
@faint probably true not doesn't negate how dire the result is for everyone that did own a wiiu because we're still just living the wiiu except we're out an extra few hundred bucks.
@Bolt_Strike I think you're sidelining the point. Your own list shows it's 50/50 new and old, but it 8 other point is that it's the new ones that are heavy with the really mediocre games while the old ones are the bigger meatier games. There ARE. Gems among the new, much very much of it is pure filler way below the standard of what's in the ports.
@NEStalgia First of all you specified Wii U in particular in the post I quoted you on. You said it was 70% the same library, which is way off base. So what you posted in that quote is blatantly false. I won't debate that it's 50/50 old and new because the data clearly shows that, but that's not what you original said, you were arguing that the majority of games were Wii U ports. That is objectively false.
I'm not sure how you can say that actually. BotW and MK8D are big, meaty games, and 3D World becomes big and meaty with the Bowser's Fury expansion, but other than that most of the games aren't that big and meaty. Most of the Wii U's lineup is simplistic 2D platformers and combat focused ARPG games, there weren't really a lot of sandbox/open world games for you to run around and explore in, and most of the full featured multiplayer games haven't really gotten ported and instead got sequels (Splatoon, Smash). In fact, the lack of the former is a major reason why I skipped the Wii U in the first place, I was waiting the Wii U's entire lifespan for games like Odyssey and Prime 4 (and SwSh and Legends Arceus, but we knew that the Wii U was never going to get Pokemon games aside from spinoffs so it's hardly fair to count those) and they just never showed, and the only big ones were BotW, which was cross gen and too late to save the Wii U, and Xenoblade, which I've never really gotten into. So again, I'm not sure where you're coming from in all of the "big meaty games" being Wii U ports is coming from. It seems like the exact opposite in fact.
@Bolt_Strike you're right, I said wiiu, while thinking more about old ported games vs new games. But we were also taking about Nintendo's own studio output, which that list is including non internal games.
But about the big games. That list of old games includes almost all big games. Zelda ports and remakes, tropical freeze. In fact the only small games in the old list is party, captain toad, nsmbu, mystery dungeon (third party) and warriors (third party) and miitopia.
The list of new is filled with loads of small games. A weird, small multiplayer Kirby that was clearly a 3ds project. Party, tennis, golf, both of which were half baked at best and that's being kind, crafted world, I loved it, but again, clearly a 3ds project, and a downgrade from wooly world, ringfit, warioware. Even dread, while a top choice game is a small game, and clearly a 3ds original product.
Tons of small games of the new stuff. Yes there's some big ones, some good ones, and obviously third party games like mh rise that are big system sellers that aren't Nintendo. But if Nintendo's own output we have 50/50 old and new games, and of the new ones a greater percentage is smaller type games.
It's a far cry from the days of wiiu and it 3ds running together. They're still doing 3ds style games, Luigi's Mansion3, crafted world, dread, all are more 3ds type games. Even acnh (iffy as it is ...) is obviously 3ds style, it looks like an HD new leaf. There just haven't been many new home console style games from them at all. And generalgenerally less output than 3ds + wiiu got.
Back then I mostly ignored other consoles, the two Nintendo systems kept me coming back and dominating my game ring. But it's been anemic enough I just go into single game bursts on switch.
@NEStalgia I mean the WiiU stopped at 700 games total between physical and digital. The switch has something like 4K releases. Logic dictates that for every quality release on the WiiU, the Switch has 3.5 to 4.
@NEStalgia I couldn’t sleep so I went through Nintendo published titles and counted.
61 Nintendo published titles were not on the WiiU in any shape or form. 16 were on the WiiU in some form. I didn’t count free 2 play games. That’s 15 new titles per year. This doesn’t include exclusives that weren’t published by Nintendo.
When the games library of Nintendo Switch already more than 4000 titles in wide variety of genre and you still disappointed by the games, you should questioning your gaming taste if you are really picky or just only stuck on typical same games.
The whole industry is slowing down. That's not just Nintendo. The PS3 has less games than the PS2, the PS4 has less games than the PS3, the PS5 has less games than the PS4. Digital games don't count obviously or the Switch would be the Nintendo console with the most games ever. That's the consequence of gamers correlating quality of games and review scores with budget or size of development team. Stop buying big budget games, buy more japanese games and you will make the industry improve.
When the games library of Nintendo Switch already more than 4000 titles in wide variety of genre and you still disappointed by the games, you should questioning your gaming taste if you are really picky or just only stuck on typical same games.
It's called Cherry Picking for plain words. They have Physical of some same games in Digital/Physical formats and some just Digital because of developer cost or they just choose to be lazy for the Big Developers not the small Indie developers they have tight budget unless the likes of SRRG or LRG and others that helps them put to Physical editions. They can use the 64gb carts if those are true but for Big Developers whom still choose the 16gb or maybe 32gb cart version and still charge 60usd is just plain lazy. Buyers wanting the games in Physical cart like me a Gamer/Collector would gladly pay the real 60usd for the physical cart or more if it's a LE/CE/SE cart version.
The list of new is filled with loads of small games. A weird, small multiplayer Kirby that was clearly a 3ds project. Party, tennis, golf, both of which were half baked at best and that's being kind, crafted world, I loved it, but again, clearly a 3ds project, and a downgrade from wooly world, ringfit, warioware. Even dread, while a top choice game is a small game, and clearly a 3ds original product
I do mostly agree with you - since the first year hit with BoTW, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2 and XC2 Nintendo hasn't given us as many big console scale exclusives as we'd all hoped they would. There's been plenty of great smaller exclusives - things that would have been on 3DS (or DS or GBA) in a past era, but even then not games that would have necessarily been anchoring a big part of the annual line up on those handhelds.
That said - Dread (though a smaller project of the type discussed) couldn't possibly have ever been intended as a 3DS release from its conception with MS. Samus Returns was such a late 3DS release and they were never doing a 3DS sequel. Yes - there's been "Metroid Dread" projects in the work in some fashion since the GBA days but I don't think this particular one was ever realistically planned for 3DS at any point.
What I do wonder is whether Nintendo cancelled one or two other big tentpole games aside from the one we know about (Prime 4). Whether true or not it feels like there's at least 2-3 gaps in the Switch line up. What were Retro doing between Tropical Freeze and being given Prime 4 for instance? If Nintendo had at this point already launched Prime 4, BoTW 2 and a new "reboot" of some franchise from Retro then the exclusives line up would already look much stronger.
@NEStalgia Again, your criteria on "big game" vs. "small game" is not clear and you seem to be confusing them. There seem to be a lot more "small games" on the old games list than you mention based on what you're saying about the new games. The only Zelda ports are BotW, which are one of the few exceptions, Hyrule Warriors, which is kind of an average sized combat game, not one that I'd call "big and meaty" (plus it was ported to the 3DS, so by your standards that shouldn't count), and the Link's Awakening remake, which was a low effort remake of a GB game. Tropical Freeze is a 2D platformer that's a direct sequel of Returns, which was ported to the 3DS, and doesn't really feel like a proper evolution of Returns. So that game feels like it could run on the 3DS as well. Captain Toad is a 3D World minigame spun off into its own game and was ported to the 3DS as well. 3D World is just a 3D Land sequel, and like with Tropical Freeze, doesn't do much to evolve from it and feels like it could run on the 3DS as well. Again, the only part of 3D World that feels "big and meaty" is the Bowser's Fury expansion that they added to the Switch port. And then there's TW101 and Tokyo Mirage Sessions which are along the same lines as Hyrule Warriors. As for the other ports, LGPE, BDSP, and PMD are Link's Awakening-esque remakes of handheld games, Miitopia is a 3DS game, and Mario Party Superstars is a compilation of 5 boards from older Mario Parties. 3D All Stars is kind of big, but only because it's a compilation of 3 big 3D Mario games. Other than that the only big games from the past gen remakes are XC:DE and Skyward Sword HD.
As for the new games, again there have been more large scale sandbox/open world games in the new games list than the Wii U had period, let alone ported to the Switch. The Wii U never had a 3D Mario on the scale of Mario Odyssey, its only 3D game was a level pack sequel of a 3DS game and aside from that just had a few 2D games. Splatoon 2 is a multiplayer game that has a wide variety of different content and playstyles (you have the traditional multiplayer, Splatfests, a single player mode, an endless run mode, and a DLC single player mode). We didn't really see those kinds of games ported aside from MK8D, again they opted to make sequels to those kinds of games instead of ports for the most part. Same with Smash Ultimate, which has by far the largest roster of Smash characters ever. I don't really see how Crafted World is "stripped down" from Woolly World. In fact Crafted World actually seems to expand on Woolly World by making it more 2.5D. Luigi's Mansion 3 is such a large and intricate game world and there was no Luigi's Mansion on Wii U and the 3DS one felt somewhat gimped with the levels being somewhat small and linear. 3 is much more expansive than any Luigi's Mansion before it. SwSh is a first for Pokemon, despite the bulk of the game being the same linear, simplified design we've seen from other 3D games, it also adds in the Wild Area which again is a very expansive (albeit too simple) sandbox that dips its toe into sandbox/open world game design (with Legends Arceus taking the full plunge). And there's even more big games to come that are totally original, Legends Arceus, Splatoon 3, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, BotW2, Metroid Prime 4, all big games and two of those are games that were not done on the Wii U and could not be done on the 3DS.
There hasn't really been a drastic shift in "small games" this generation. It's been about the same as last gen. Not only that, but there's been more "big games" as we've had several IPs return to that style of play (3D Mario, Metroid) and several that are experimenting with bigger games for the first time (Pokemon, Kirby). So I really don't see the evidence of that happening, if anything it's quite the opposite.
What in the world are you people using for criteria in terms of "big" vs. "small" games? And when did everyone suddenly get their doctorate in knowing which system a game was originally planned for?
@rallydefault To be fair, you can kind of eyeball some games being bigger than others, like you could tell that BotW is a bigger game than Link's Awakening. But as far as coming up with a clear demarcation between "big game" and "small game", it's definitely hard to say. Now as for me, I was identifying some qualities such as the size and scale of the game world and number of features, but in general it's tough to really classify a game as "big" or "small" because there's a wide spectrum of games with varying levels of size and content and some might need more than others.
Also there wasn't a whole lot of knowing the game was planned for an older system (they did mention Luigi's Mansion 3, but other than that), but it sounds less like they're saying "Nintendo planned this game for 3DS" and more "this game looks like it could run on the 3DS". I was also saying something similar, although I confess that I don't know for sure what can run and what can't, you can look at certain games that are extremely similar in mechanics (again, this is something I really felt with some of the Wii U games, and especially its platformers, like NSMBU, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze) and think "wait, couldn't they have made a game with these mechanics and these levels on previous hardware? I'm not really feeling like the Wii U itself is opening up new gameplay possibilities for these games". @NEStalgia seems to feel the same about some Switch games feeling like the 3DS runs them. Some of these seem fair, like Kirby Star Allies which just seems to be yet another RtDL style 2D Kirby and feels like it could've been done. But most of them don't seem to have been scaled up because a scale up doesn't make sense for that style of game. This is true for the Mario Sports and Party games, because they're based on sports and party games that generally don't change much over time, and maybe Animal Crossing as well because it's more about social interaction than content per se (although I don't know AC that well, there may be some extra features they can or have added, so I can't really weigh in on if and to what degree they can make a bigger and better game than what NL provided).
Overall though, I agree with you and that's what I was asking them about. Their criteria is just plain confusing and arbitrary and it feels like there's a lot of double standards going on. There are a few vague comparisons you can make, but there is no exact science for those kinds of declarations.
While it's true that the system has seen it's fair share of Wii U ports, who honestly gives a rat's behind that Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Luigi's Mansion, Metroid, Astral Chain, etc. are "second party"/licensed out? In the practical sense (from the end point of the person playing the game) it's irrelevant that the teams making the games don't have the word "Nintendo" printed on the front of their office door, and seems a poor excuse from the, increasingly shrinking, crowd that still feels burned about how the Wii U played out & wants to discredit the Switch at every turn.
This is the point I most agree with. While there's at least reason to be annoyed at how maybe Nintendo's main studios haven't put out enough games in the context of Nintendo in general not putting out enough games, there is no reasonable argument to why anyone should care that a giant percentage of Nintendo games are made by developers not fully owned by Nintendo. Especially when a lot of those games are really good.
Exactly. Nintendo supervises, directs, and translates most of those 2nd party games. They don't need to be in-house 1st party. Intelligent Systems, Retro Studios, Monolithsoft, and now Next Level Games are all "Nintendo" as those studios never make games for other systems and are always published by none other than Nintendo.
Other than that, Nintendo's first party output hasn't changed significantly, like some people here love to point out without evidence.
There's still the same amount of quantity and new exclusives or sequels, when comparing the Switch to any other Nintendo console. Even minus the remakes and ports. The only difference is games on the Switch are bigger and look better.
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Luigi's Mansion 3, Animal Crossing: New Horizons, and Metroid Dread are just six examples of maingame sequels that made decade-old fan wishes come true and therefore are objectively easily the best in their entire series for most longtime fans.
This never happened before. There's no Nintendo console that has six maingame sequels that are just as good or even better than their best prequels. And we're only halfway through?!
@Bolt_Strike
Of course BotW is bigger than Link's Awakening, but BotW is also "bigger" than pretty much anything else on the system, yea?
I just find it bonkers that a certain someone is labeling Dread as a small game, for example. Sure, if you shmutz through it in 10ish hours and then never touch it again, but you can pretty much do that with any game that isn't a JRPG.
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