Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@skywake They aren't just including an OLED panel into the new cost of the system though.

They have doubled the internal storage, and remember how there have been yearly reports about phone companies getting first dibs on that stuff due to being able to order more and sell more through phones. A contract with Nintendo for a few million 64GB chips is nothing compared to Apple ordering 100 million of them.

So that price will be factored in. Opening new production lines for assembly, the R&D in design of the new dock.

All of these factors would add up to the, since you like using regional figures, £30 extra over the original model, quite comfortably.

The other thing about the price though, imagine if you are a business. You have the hottest consumer product on the market right now. Sales are up year on year on year. You haven't once dropped the price even for a holiday, just doing a bundle with a launch game that sells out.

Heck in your fourth year on the market the system was scalped and people were paying $400 and up for something you released in 2017.

If you were an executive and you had just seen that, and you could add in what are undoubtedly improvements, you'd want that price to go up because if newcomers to the system we're paying third party resellers $400 for what you had before, giving them something better for $350 has already been decided by the market as a good thing.

There's also a fair chance that what actually happens will blur the lines a bit. People are arguing about the idea of "revision vs successor" and "2022 vs 2023". But when you think about it there's a whole spectrum of options between those two things. Consider these two scenarios that push the limits of both ideas:

Scenario 1

• Marketed with a name that makes it sound more like a revision (think Wii -> Wii U)
• Some content that's exclusive including some major releases
• Significant boost in performance, something like 3X. Approaching the PS4 Pro spec
• Drops Joycon compatibility for a controller redesign that removes some of the Joycon issues
• Requires an entirely new dock, does not work in existing dock
• Late 2022 release, early December

Scenario 2

• Marketed with a name that makes it sound like a new platform (think XBox One -> XBox X)
• Barely any if any exclusive content, heavy forwards compatibility
• Small spec jump, think GC -> Wii. Yes there's DLSS but raw performance is very similar
• The bulk of the efficiency gains from the new SoC put towards improved battery life
• Maintains full accessory compatibility, identical Joycons and works in the current dock
• Early 2023 release eg March

Now both of these are entirely hypothetical scenarios, I expect what we'll actually get is a bit of both and possibly a bit of neither. But it kinda illustrates the point I think. I mean if you looked at the above two which would you call a successor and which would you call a revision? Not that clear is it.

@Haruki_NLI
64GB of Flash doesn't make up the rest of difference not matter how hard you want to spin it. Also scalpers are a non-factor for this discussion. Scalpers are at most of what people are willing to pay, that has nothing to do with how much the product could be sold at for a profit.

@skywake No, but a business is in the market of turning a profit.

If you see your system still selling out at $300, and you see scalpers turning regularly at $400, you wouldn't drop your price to add in an improved model.

You'd keep that price the same, and then add a new upgrade that costs more.

The market has said for 85m units that 70m or so of them at $300 and no less was a success. When your momentum isn't slowing down, you don't cut your price.

Plus if the OLED is positioned hard as the premium version, you spin your marketing to $200 for kids with a Lite, and $300 if you want the entry model. $350 if you want the premium experience.

And then eventually when momentum does slow, you start cutting prices towards end of life.

If the OG Switch is to be phased out of course, I can see this holiday dropping it to $250 to clear. It'll fly at that price.

But of course, this depends on Nintendo being smart. I know they said they don't intend to lose momentum but let's be real, sales can drop off a cliff at any moment for any reason.

I know they are milking it for profit, it's a business, they aren't looking to break even. But they have the data, they know what is selling, they even know how many people play handheld vs docked. No matter how much people complain about the price or the features, this was a very informed decision.

And sure people can say complaining did nothing. But they redid the kickstand, added more storage, out a LAN port in the dock and redid the airflow for the dock.

Let's be real, Nintendo could have ignored those quality of life changes, because that's all they are, and just plopped an OLED screen in for $350.

I mean, as a business that's probably what I would have done. Would have called it Switch XL though 🤣

@Haruki_NLI
Hmm, I think we're arguing different points here. I'm not against Nintendo making a profit, if anything I'd rather them make a larger profit by pushing up the price closer to what people are willing to pay. At least doing that puts the squeeze on the inevitable scalpers in the current climate.

What I disagreed with was this:

because:
1. People, at least anyone with even the slightest amount sense, were not expecting 4K on battery. People were thinking that maybe we'd get a spec bump that would improve performance in docked mode mostly. And ontop of that something like DLSS would maybe provide some perceived resolution bump

and
2. The OLED Model isn't even remotely close to being sold at a loss, there's a LOT of fat on the RRP as it stands. They could pretty easily up the spec without it being a product that sells at a loss

@skywake Site seems broken, Im not getting sent to your post when I click a notification

I agree they could have done more. Hard to say if chip issues would impact a new Tegra chip, and I imagine Nintendo would want a stockpile first and foremost to avoid issues that the PS5 and such has faced.

The easiest option would have been a RAM bump. Go from 4 to 8GB lets say, keep the low power DDR4 for battery reasons, and open up the bandwidth a bit. That'll fix a lot of issues of performance hitches from loading, which may actually be a brunt of the issues Switch exclusives face.

And maybe overclock the existing Mariko chip. Hard to say there.

I always believed that if Nintendo wanted to, they could turn any given Mariko Switch in homes right now into a Switch Pro of sorts. Take the chip, open the clock speeds up more when docked via firmware update, especially with this more ventilated dock now, and itd fix a lot of issues. Not perfect, but cost effective.

I'm not one to get upset with Nintendo about being, well, Nintendo... but if they sell this thing at 350 bucks and then pop out the "actual" Pro in 2022, I'll be pretty ticked off.

If they did this because of the chip stuff going on, fine. But now they've made their bed and need to lie in it for longer than 3 months. If (huge if) the Pro actually exists, they need to keep that puppy on the backburner until 2023 at the earliest.

Thinking about the Game Awards, Switch actually stands a chance this time with all the PS delays happening. I could see the nominees for GotY being something like:

• Monster Hunter Rise
• Metroid Dread
• Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart
• Horizon Forbidden West (if it releases before the nominee deadline)/Forza Horizon 5 (if HFW releases after the deadline)
• Resident Evil Village
• Back 4 Blood

I genuinely don't see Dread being nominated for GOTY. Game Awards heavily favors big 3D or story-driven games in that particular category alongside the trending multiplayer title which I guess Back 4 Blood will be. Dread will probably be pegged for one of the categories but it being a "smaller" 2D game that isn't as big of a name as Mario or Zelda is going to put it at a disadvantage compared to other games. I'd love to be proven wrong but TGA is basically a popularity contest most of the time

In terms of Switch stuff I can see MH Rise and maybe even SMT V taking up those slots

Yeah, unless Metroid Dread is some absurd, undisputed masterpiece with enough 10/10s, no chance it will be nominated beyond maybe one thing.

Though unfortunately the bar is low enough that I'll simply be happy if the awards go to a game that wasn't made under irredeemably terrible amounts of crunch.

Idk why anyone still puts stock into Game Awards knowing the bias toward big budget, high dollar games, bias toward certain devs and studios, and complete disregard for anything on Nintendo platforms that's not Mario or Zelda.

Every year they show nominees for best soundtrack, and every year I think, wow... I played at least 5 games with a WAY better soundtrack than that.

We're in dire need of a new, grassroots Award Show that actually recognizes games regardless of their budget or popularity.

I'm playing MH Stories 2 right now and the soundtrack is god-tier. Maybe even just as good as MH Rise. Yet neither game will ever receive an ounce of recognition for it. Just like David Wise's score in DKC Tropical Freeze wasn't even given an honorary mention.

That said, I don't feel the need for games to be "recognized" by the elites anyways. We gamers who are in the trenches and actually playing all these games that get overlooked in Awards shows, we know what time it is. And nobody can tell us otherwise, no matter how many suits stand up on stage and insist their chosen game is better.

edit

I am happy to report Monster Hunter Stories 2 runs much better in handheld mode. When I was playing docked, it was choppy as heck in this area. But after spending 15 hrs in the PC version, I came back to Switch and tested it out in handheld mode. And it’s totally playable. Not perfect. But not choppy to the point it’s aggravating to play. It’s also incredibly smooth (like 60 FPS) in monster dens, your room, smaller towns, corridor pathways in the wild… the only area it’s really not is in the wide open areas.

Took a video so ppl can judge for themselves. This is the worst area I’ve encountered- this is the area that made me frustrated and put it down at first. But as you can see, handheld fares much better. Certainly playable, at least.

And that’s good, because I HIGHLY recommend this game.

@JaxonH I'm playing exclusively on my Lite (it looks SO good on the Lite), and if that's the worst performance you've seen in handheld mode, I think I'm good.

Game never felt right when I was playing it docked. Although I do hope they patch it so docked users have a better experience.

@TheFrenchiestFry SMT V will be releasing too late to be in contention for TGA, I think.

@Ralizah
It does look incredibly good on the Lite.

After spending so much time playing in Native 4K on max settings, and thinking “wow, that image looks so crisp and the colors pop so much!”, I was rather surprised at the quality on the Lite. It impressed me just as much as a handheld title as it did in 4K as a TV title.

Battle system is so good, too. Not sure how far you’ve gotten but I am so in love with this battle system, I think it might be the best battle system of any RPG I’ve ever played. It’s that good. Nothing overly complex, but just the right amount of complexity. And once you unlock the Rite which has this SMT like mechanic where you sacrifice one monster to give a selected gene to another, and you can either put it in a blank slot or if you already have it you can “level up” the gene… I can already tell I’m going to spend so many hours with this in the end game.

Pokémon eat your heart out. This is now the king of the monster collecting genre. Although I really feel like it’s closer to mainline Monster Hunter than anything else. The entire structure of the game is nearly identical to the main series. Just in RPG format. It works incredibly well.

@JaxonH LOL You can cull monsters for their genes? That's brutal. I love it.

I'm gonna suspend my judgment on the combat until I get further in. As you probably know, I don't immediately like the basics of it, but I'm willing to see how it grows as the game goes on.

I found the first game almost impossible to get into, but I feel like I'm going to have a better time with this game.

@Ralizah
So, a few pointers about the combat.

You have Power, Techical and Speed in a Weapon Triangle fashion. Each monster has a specific type, and the goal is to learn that monster's type so you can take advantage accordingly. Their type never changes. So there's no guessing involved.

Jaggi, which are small and fast, are Speed, for example. Whereas Jaggia, their larger and more powerful cousins, are Power. And the large monster Great Jaggi, is Technical. I remember the small two based on that, and just remember the Great Jaggi is the third type the other two aren't. Most monsters types make logical sense.

But you have to also learn that when a monster gets enraged, their type always changes to where you want to USE the type they previously were. So, taking the Great Jaggi again as an example, he's Techical so you'd use Power against him. But once he's enraged you want to use what he previously was- you want to use Power. Once they're knocked over they usually revert back out of rage mode. Certain monsters like Paolumu, when he floats in the air like a helium ball, his type changes from Technical to Speed, so again you'd use Techical then. They always change one type forward.

Once you get that down, you'll want to leverage it to win Head to Heads. Any monster targeting you, if you win a H2H, you charge your kinship. That can be expended on skills, or if filled, riding the monster. And that can be used strategically because it takes your HP, uses it to fill your monstie's, then refills your HP all the way. So you can time it to your advantage when your HP is low, or your monstie's is low.

Furthermore, once riding your monster, the goal is to win Head to Heads to charge up your Kinship meter to the 2nd and 3rd level, then let rip a massive Kinship Attack.

Then there's weapon type. Slash, pierce and blunt. After you attack a monster with a weapon type, it'll show up from then on as effective or "extra effective". But this also changes up when the monster becomes enraged. And, it's different for different monster parts. Targeting the tail might have Slash as super effective while targeting the body has Blunt as super effective.

As long as you have some Kinship meter, you can dictate to your monstie which attack to use. I don't use this much but it may play a bigger role later in the game.

Skills are also dependent on having Kinship meter. At least, many of them are. Some skills cost nothing to use (like the Bow's paralysis shot), while others require weapon specific charges. Gunlance, for example, gains an ammo shell every round. You can save them up and use on Shelling or Wyvernstake attacks. Or you can use 100 Kinship for Wyvernfire.

Different weapon types have different weapon type specific skills. Hunting Horn has songs to cure abnormal status and heal all allies a bit for 5 turns. But tends to not be quite as powerful as hammer. Likewise, Sword and Shield tends to have Bonus defense as a passive stat bonus and has Guard as a skill, but tends to not be quite as powerful as Great Sword. Etc etc.

You'll also notice that, if you attack the same monster as an ally, and use the same attack type (Power, Technical, Speed) they are using, you'll do a double attack. And, if you're both riding your monstie and both do a Kinship skill on the same turn, you'll do a double Kinship attack.

There's a lot of strategy to these systems and, if you dig in deeper to weapon specific skills you may find you prefer one weapon type over another (Greatsword vs Sword and Shield for slash, Hammer vs Hunting Horn for blunt, Bow vs Gunlance for pierce).

It's insanely addictive once you learn the system and start learning the monsters' types. It's kind of like learning the monsters' tells in the mainline series. Once you learn the monsters' tells you can exploit their openings; likewise, in Stories 2 learning their types is similar to learning their tells, and it's how you exploit them.

@Ralizah I think SMT V will be a few days shy of the deadline considering that usually happens around mid-November like around the 20th or so. I'm not actually putting serious stock in it getting nominated though. It was just a thought after how much Persona 5 blew up at TGA 2017 even next to BotW

@JaxonH I was probably going to play this game on handheld mode anyways so I'm glad that MH Stories 2 looks great portably.

Optional gyro controls in Super Monkey Ball Banana Mania:

@IceClimbers Cue people wailing about the gyro controls being bad when in reality they are probably fine, but just take time to get used to. I seem to remember the 3DS version got a bad rap for the gyro controls, but I've found them fine.

@IceClimbers I'm usually not a fan of gyro, but this is Monkey Ball, so I'm willing to try it out.

@gcunit The thing with the 3DS is that not only are you turning the controller, you're also turning the screen, which is vomit-inducing for many, including myself. It's not like light gyro like with Mario Kart 7, with Monkey Ball 3D, you're turning the damn system all around. I had a similar issue with Monkey Ball on Mobile.

check out how Brewster could be added in Animal Crossing New Horizon