@Ichi If you can't see the absolute obvious difference between VR games and 'normal' games when it comes to the likelihood of people getting ill then there's nothing more to say. And I am literally stunned that I'm actually having to spell this out like I'm talking to a toddler but no experiences with VR are not a black and white slate. There's no tier ranking or tests that show for 100% certain what your experience will be like for every game 100% percent of the time. As another test I just went to the Neogaf thread about PSVR and guess what two comments were there straight away? Yes, quite remarkably there were two different people expressing their disappointment over two different games and how they reacted differently to other people who had different experiences to them over two games that people think different things about because people are different and there's no way of knowing how these two different people would've reacted to these two different games before they... wow well I'll be darned but it was only AFTER they paid their money upfront and started playing the game to judge for themselves and see if their experience was different to other peoples'!!!!!!!!!!
It's like video games and the experiences people have with them Theron are subjective or something!
And one of them bought the game physically and has already decided he will return it because he's fed up with it making him ill. Better take that doctor's note with you though dude, because who knows, you might be a scammer and lead to the Great Videogame Crash of 2016 without it!
And why should it be the consumer who has to have the burden of proof on them? If I walked down to my nearest Pizza Hut after buying a pizza from them and said that it made me ill, with nothing more than my word to prove it, I'd be willing to bet my life they'd give me a refund. Because that is something that I have actually done before, and I'm sure many others have too. If I went to any number of restaurants with the same complaint, the number that would flat out refuse would be very, very low. I'd be willing to say it'd be 0. Most businesses that offer a service with a potential side affect of making someone ill will as well, I'm too lazy and stupid to think of others ATM. Why should video games be any different? Why should I need a doctor's note or a picture of my vomit in a doggy bag before I think of a refund? Because these same companies are soooooooooooooooo trustworthy and we should never think about demanding better services from them that might lead to them gasp losing a negligible amount of money from a negligible amount of scammers!!!!!!!!!! The horror!
I mean Jesus wept again Sony/VR and video game sales aren't going to collapse if there's a refund policy. How's Steam doing recently? Oh better than ever you might say? I just thought that since their refund policy last year everyone will just refund ever game they buy every time because of this infallible argument i read recently.
Until the day that I can return physical games and get a refund, I don't see why not getting a refund for digital is such a big deal. You're always taking a risk when buying video games, it might be utter garbage and not worth a single penny of the 60 bucks you spent. Things like that happen all the time. Not having the ability to resell your game? That's just the downside of digital I guess.
@MarcelRguez thank God that Jesus can stop weeping now that I've seen a sensible comment about this issue. I mean it's great that this has happened because it just illustrates perfectly how much work needs to be done for the whole industry when we still have in 2016 people arguing against refunds. Albeit unlike some somewhat reasonable points that could be made this was just a load of tripe, but still.
I mean, even Steam's refund policy is lacking in my opinion. When you have certain businesses that will offer you a no quibble money back guarantee for their products for a fixed amount of time (some as much as a YEAR!) I think it is pathetic that the gold standard in video games is having less than 2 hours to judge the product.
If there was a blanket 7 day money back guarantee like a significant number of other businesses offer the industry would be far, far better off for it. I long for that day, and no it's not going to lead to "no sales".
Ugh... this week is crawling by so slowly... :---D
We're obviously way past a Tuesday announcement. They usually announce Directs when it's late night for Japan, afternoon for Europe and early morning for the Americas. And now we're already entering Wednesday in the rest of the world aside from America.
I'm going to stick with my prediction I made in the little guessing game we did a while back. So maybe an announcement this Friday, and the reveal on the 25th, just before the investors meeting.
@Shinion Yes, and because of that likelihood people should be more aware of these problems and think before they buy it.
What you're saying then is when it's more likely, those people affected are more deserving of a refund, than people affected when it's less likely. I completely disagree.
And "likely" is the wrong term, because as I said it's not random. If you have any of these problems, it's more likely you experience them in VR, because again - you're putting a screen in your face.
Well, if you have a wheat allergy, you're not entitled to a refund if you eat pizza if you ask me. To put that into an analogy, you're suggesting people who eat pizza with wheat topping and wheat sauce are more deserving of a refund than people who eat plain pizza.
And from what I understand from the Steam policy, which I FYI think is great, there is a limit to how long you have played that game, or else no refund.
The problems can kick in anytime. You can have good/bad days, and people are triggered by different things, as I said. Better to have a general refund policy like Steam, than a "I feel motion sickness, etc, etc, give me my money back" policy.
I mean, you say the former, and it is the basis for your entire argument, but then you say the latter which completely contradicts it. That is the cherry on top of the delicious cake as far as this is concerned for me.
I'm off to bed now, should've gone a long time ago really but this has been... well something else.
Have a nice life man, I'll always remember you as "Mr Argued Against Refunds Because Ahh The Scammers Might Kill All Of The Sales Of All Of The Games And People Better Be Prepared To Prove That A Video Game Made Them Ill Before Requesting A Refund Because No Way Is It Possible That People Could Have Entirely Different Experiences And Unless They Performed Due Diligence On Their End By Fully Researching Every And Any Game They Wish To Purchase Because If It Is Later Found Out That They Didn't Then They Are A Bad And Evil Person Especially If They Suspected That They Might Be Subject To Adverse Side Effects Beforehand Because That Is literally A Sin, I Mean Buying A Game Without Knowing Everything And Anything About It And THEN Expecting A Refund If It Made You Ill? You Might As Well Be Called Darth Vader or The Joker Because You Are Totally In The Wrong And No Company Worth Their Salt Would Show Even The Smallest Amout Of Decency To Another Person Because Ahhh The Scammers Will Stop All Of The Sales Of All Of The Games! Jr".
Ugh... this week is crawling by so slowly... :---D
We're obviously way past a Tuesday announcement. They usually announce Directs when it's late night for Japan, afternoon for Europe and early morning for the Americas. And now we're already entering Wednesday in the rest of the world aside from America.
I'm going to stick with my prediction I made in the little guessing game we did a while back. So maybe an announcement this Friday, and the reveal on the 25th, just before the investors meeting.
They announced the 3DS direct 2 days beforehand, so tomorrow could be the day if it's a Friday direct! (Just being optimistic).
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Since the shareholders meeting is next Wednesday, I think next Tuesday would make sense for a Direct presentation for us, the consumers, and then the next day answer all the more financially oriented questions of the shareholders'. But by next week Nintendo will have to break radio silence one way or the other.
I dunno we may get the reveal on the week after Nintendo has it's financial meeting. I could see the first details on what the NX is together with a press release happening next Wednesday with a full reveal a week later.
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@Octane I think Valve's refund policy on Steam is the best I've come across for games, and I don't see why Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo can't put the same infrastructure in place to offer the same/similar terms. And it should be extended to physical games too, but with 20-25% knocked off the refund if the shrinkwrap has been removed, because that immediately devalues the item for the retailer. The obstacle to get around would be how would the retailer get the assurance that the game has only been played for a minimal amount of time. There would need to be some form of system, similar to Steam I guess, where the retailer can quickly look up your profile, input a unique code (that the customer has acquired from the system) to identify the user and the game, and validate that the game has hardly been played. Seems perfectly doable.
The investor meeting is the first proof of life I'm expecting.
And I fully expect to be please understanding that we'll hear about it "when it's ready" and that'll probably mean a launch beyond e3 2017.
And have nothing for the rest of 2017? Yeah, no. That's not going to happen.
@gcunit Or, devs could release a demo of the game and that solves the problem as well. I don't think that something similar to Steam could work on consoles. And returning physical games just sounds too complicated. My advice? Don't pre-order stuff, await reviews, watch trailers and gameplay footage if you're not sure and play the demo if it's available. If still can't tell whether you'll like a game or not you're doing something wrong. Apart from a handful of games that I knew beforehand were a little controversial (Skyward Sword and SF Zero for example), I've never bought a game that I ended up disliking. And to be honest, I rarely play demos and I don't even look up reviews anymore. I really don't think it's a big issue. And you can always buy physical to be sure and resell the game if you really don't like it.
Nintendo plans to reveal a new Mario game with the system.
Pretty much a given. I could also swear that I read an article here months ago which said they were working on a new Mario game.
Edit: Turns out I did.
There's a new IP in the works, "described as new, fun and crazy", "Nintendo doesn't have another game like this", she says. It's less Wii Sports in intentions, more Splatoon.
I don't think Nintendo have gone a generation without a new IP. This generation we've seen Splatoon, Face Raiders, and, soon, Ever Oasis and likely others I've forgotten, (you could half count StreetPass Plaza). In the NX's lifetime, we could see "Project Giant Robot," or whatever it is Anouma's being pushed to make, or something completely different.
Yeah the only prediction of hers that I would actually credit to her and not just common sense based on Nintendos history would be the reveal this week. Nintendo talking about it at the investors meeting is a given. For her credibilitys sake, and for my own personal desire, I hope she's right about the reveal.
More than happy to can it now, I was just stunned at the lengths certain individuals are willing to bat against refunds, and how it has to be the consumer's fault for not researching and being 100% sure of their physical and mental wellbeing before they buy every single game. I still am baffled in fact that there are people who think adding even the most basic of refund systems will be impossible on consoles.
Though as I said at the start it ain't the right place for this debate though I feel it demonstrated my point perfectly, the rapid implementation of VR has only accelerated the need for refunds and I believe it's only a matter of time.
VR evangelists though, I'd been warned beforehand at their unique viewpoint towards VR but never expected that!
I don't think there would be so much heat in this conversation if you weren't so passive aggressive about it. If you conducted yourself in a civil manner the discussion would have been interesting to read.
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