Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom

And can we talk about how adorable the cat costume is? Good lord.

Can I just say - I really, REALLY like the jumping. It's emphasized here much more than Zeldas have in the past and it really does change how you interact with the environment. It's a thing I'd like to see future top-down Zeldas keep without locking it to an item of course.

@N00BiSH Yes. Strong agree. Legitimately should be part of the series forever.

Finally got a chance to start the game yesterday and had a wonderful time. I got through the first dungeon, and it was super fun. Really solid introduction to the mechanics. The things that surprised me most were the bosses. Staying spoiler free, the mini boss and main boss were both just fun. That's the best way to describe the game so far. Fun. Nothing crazy or mind-blowing, but fun. And boy was that what I needed right now. I cannot wait to play more.

@Kraven
I love the costume. When I got it, I talked with every cat. The dialogue is great and it made me appreciate how awesome cats are.

I dug out a might crystal at the same spot, where the ocarina from A Link To The Past can be dug out, nice.

Every game no matter the genre is better with jumping 😀

I have about one more dungeon left before the final one, and my opinion on the game's shifted a bit. I don't hate it, but I don't feel compelled to 100% it like with A Link Between Worlds or Link's Awakening. It just feels like the systems don't really mix together well imo, and there's a lot of nothing in terms of rewards for wanting to complete things. The world is large and feels pretty uninspired and empty due to the lack of quality content. Sorta like Mario Odyssey.

I've finished jabul ruins and I can honestly say, it may be my favorite water dungeon in the entire series.

Getting to the Faron region and doing it's quest makes me wish all the regions had quests as strong as this. I don't get why the newer Zelda games have underwhelming dungeon quests with one or two regions being the exception.

I beat the game yesterday and got everything. Every heart, item, accesory, might crystal, stamp, outfit (no amiibo outfits), side quest, smoothie combination and of course echo. I also did every sleep dojo mission plus fast time bonus. It was a pleasant journey. The end part was also really cool. The boss had no chance against a Lynel and me, throwing plush bears at it. It would be great to play hero mode someday.

So far my thoughts:

The game starts off pretty strong but feels like it tapers off in the second act. The story is pretty weak, but not as weak as Tears of the Kingdom or BotW's. It's simple and barely there really. The questlines for the different tribes feel extremely weak aside from the Mt Lanayru quest and Faron quest.

Dungeons are stronger than Tears of the Kingdom in terms of themes and puzzles but seem to suffer from the layout being extremely linear. There's no backtracking through most of them, with a good number of the dungeons boiling down to traveling in a straight line- or a line slightly curved. The puzzles are fairly simple as well, being easy to either cheese or figure out on your own with minimal need to think. Same pretty much goes for combat due to the echoes you get from the dungeons themselves.

Another issue is that the game's echo select menu gets so horrible to use that it feels like I tend to barely use 99% of the echoes in the game. I stick to the few that I know help me fight or get around, and all the rest barely ever get touched. Especially when you get later into the game and unlock the more OP Echoes, which effectively make quick work of the overworld enemies and dungeon enemies both.

Horses are very very sloppily put together. Doesn't feel like there's any real need for them in this game and the controls are horrid, making it feel like you're always gliding upon soap. Having no control of the horse's ability to jump makes me feel extremely baffled. I haven't really used the horse since I got it, and it doesn't seem like there's much of a need to use it in this game.

The Still World got boring after the first few times I went through it, and it reminds me of the tears of light gimmick both Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess had- yet somehow even less engaging than how it was done in both of those games.

I do like how there's more enemy variety than the previous post-Switch era Zelda titles though. Seeing all of these enemies from previous games come together into this one with a few new ones really makes it a treat. The world also feels like a love-letter to the series in the sense that you have a ton of characters and landmarks from previous games. However- I feel like that's partially a pitfall as well. Due to reusing so many ideas from previous games along with designs, the game struggles to have it's own visual identity. It lifts heavily from Ocarina of Time and reuses the Link's Awakening remake art style, creating something that feels incredibly bland and forgettable honestly. Especially when it reuses the Hyrule from A Link to the Past but just expanded.

Over-all, I still need to beat the game, but I'm coming pretty close to the end of it. I don't think I'll go for 100% like I did for A Link Between Worlds, and I don't think I'm going to be replaying it. The game just feels less focused than previous 2D entries, and its a shame given that the actual concept behind the gameplay is genuinely interesting. I like the ability to use enemies to help fight for you, or to be able to solve puzzles my way despite there being a clear solution. My main gripe is just how it was executed, along with just how vapid the world felt with the rewards and content not weighing in favor of actually wishing to explore the map.

The above 2 x comments make a plethora of solid points, and overall I'd probably give Echoes around a 7/10.

It shows a lot of promise, and some genuinely great ideas, but the execution feels somewhat 'off' a little bit.

I think the entire Zelda formula maybe needs a revisit and refresh with whatever Switch2 can pull out the bag. Both the 2d and 3d/open world entries have both achieved great things, but I think the series needs to somehow reinvent itself again.

I wondered how a CRPG-ish entry might work? Similar to player character in BG3, a voiceless protagonist (Link or another) can work... and dialogue choices that impact the later story would add to replayability.

Although I kind of understand the complaints about the echoes menu I also feel like Nintendo thought about it a lot and came up with a fairly good usage compromise. Honestly most games with lots of items do it much worse, with a lot of games having menus which look really nice but you live in menus half the game in practice.

99% of the time the echo I want is near the beginning in the quick menu 'last used', new, or 'most used' sorting option (or occasionally in the cost option if I just want a tough enemy). And scrolling and switching sorting options is fast. The other percent of the time I sort by type and have to scroll through everything but at least type is organized sanely enough I won't miss what I want. I do think the + echo menu could have been made better for this rare case, but I have almost never felt the need to use the + echo menu anyways. A manual sort option would have been fun but I feel like I would have just spent far more time sorting them than the time it would have saved me.

I guess the sorting would have worked less well if I really needed every echo often. But half the echoes I never really used and a lot of others I heavily used for one portion of the game but then not later. But I don't think that is necessarily bad; honestly I'm impressed that I have used 50+ of them at various parts of the game even if I've ignored another 50. And judging by game clips and conversations, some of the ones I use are completely different than some of the ones other people use which is honestly kind of fascinating; the game has interesting replay value because you could play with completely different strategies.

I'm four dungeons in and avoiding reading too much of this thread so as to maintain my sense of childlike wonder at each new reveal. Folks, this is a good game!

My favorite use of echoes right now is summoning an army of Crows to knock Rupees out of monsters

@BougieBeetle remember multiple crows are called a murder…bwahahahaha

Same. It's just so satisfying not to be the one to have your rupees knocked away.

And yes, it's a great game.

Princess Zelda is slowly becoming Prince John with her flock of tax-collecting crows.

Only a few hours in but I'm absolutely loving it so far. I was unsure if I'd like the whole echoes mechanic, but I'm feeling it does for 2D Zelda what TotK did for BotW - maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but I do like how it mixes things up for this one installment. Plus it's reminded me just how great 2D Zelda is.

I dunno, the game just seems full of the kind of Nintendo magic that you don't really find from other AAA companies.

Will see how this goes though!

I started off pretty happy when I first got the game, but at this point I'm struggling to even pick it back up. At the second to last dungeon- and I genuinely just feel tired of what I've played. Really hope the next game goes back to Link's normal moveset.

@Ryu_Niiyama It sure is! Love to see a tough ass looking Moblin just crumple before all my crow bros

@FishyS Oh yeah, the shoe is on the other foot this time and how sweet it is