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Topic: The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles

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VoidofLight

@Snaplocket If you didn't like it, then why did you get Definitive Edition?

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Ralizah

@Snaplocket I wasn't gaga over XC1 either. Hoping I'll feel more kindly when I get around to playing my copy of the Definitive Edition.

@NEStalgia Personal perceived value is all that matters in entertainment. It seems insane to me to pay more for a game because it had a bigger development budget. Imagine if that logic applied to ticket prices in a theater, or DVD prices for new releases.

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Snaplocket

@VoidofLight I was an idiot who thought "Maybe I didn't give it a fair chance back on the Wii, despite beating it twice." There are probably plenty of people who bought new ports of games for similar reasons. Needless to say, the game wasn't any better the third time and the new epilogue scenario was completely worthless.

Edited on by Snaplocket

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NEStalgia

@Ralizah theater prices are a bad example, only mega budget product ever lands in theaters except for artsy farts hipster theaters in the mega metros showing pretentious Cannes junk.

And DVDs don't really have set prices. Even direct to dvd Disney stuff doesn't sell at full price. While even blockbusters can launch so discounts. I'd say perception isn't driving prices in either of those markets. Gamers are just gullible schmucks, easily trainable, and the publishers know it. It's echoing designer label fashion more than the rest of entertainment. It's gross.

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia Mainstream theaters I go to showcase billion dollar Marvel blockbusters alongside foreign films, indie flicks, and mid-budget comedies/romances. I don't know what terrible theaters you go to that only show big budget stuff.

And while DVD prices might be variable, to my knowledge, it's never been that bigger budget films generally cost more. Updated re-releases of old movies generally cost similar prices to new releases.

Ditto with print books. Reprints of old books don't generally cost less than new books.

The attitude that new big budget products should cost more is mostly unique to the gaming community, and as long as gamers act like they're pay pigs who should shoulder the bill for overinflated budgets, nothing will change about the way Western AAA development is handled.

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NEStalgia

@Ralizah I've never seen a mainstem theater (AMC, Regal) show anything but blockbusters. 12 theaters, 4 running the same film.

Then again I haven't set foot into a theater in 18 years and consider return of the king a new release.... Maybe it changed, but if so that's a new thing. The amcs are all dinner movies now which is beyond disgusting. Netflix exists for reasons.

Now that I'm saying big budget games should keep rising in price. I think they should budget to the market instead. But I also don't think mid budget should cost the same as blockbusters. Who would seriously justify $70 for GAA1 without even having 2? By the "one price" logic, that's what this should cost.

More fairly everything should continue the 3ds $50 model and if tlou is too make a profit they can make Boi a sprite.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia I go to AMC theaters all the time (didn't for a year or so for obvious reasons, but I've returned to the habit), and most of the screens aren't set-up for dine-in. I actually do mostly attend the dine-ins, but mostly because the seats in my preferred theater are comfy recliners. If I want real food, I'll usually just sneak it in. I buy popcorn and drinks anyway, so they still get money for concessions.

Anyway, more obscure stuff obviously doesn't get as many showings per day, but they're usually readily available. AMC theaters in the towns/cities near me (in rural Tennessee, mind you) show off anime films, Korean films, some Chinese films, all of the A24 stuff, etc.

I don't think games should cost $70 to begin with, so your example doesn't resonate with me. There are only a handful of games I'd pay that for (one of them being SMT V, which I'll probably end up spending around $200 on, since I'm getting the special edition and am heavily considering downloading at midnight of launch day as well). With that said, yes, I'd certainly be happier paying that insane price for GAA1 than, say... Halo, or God of War, or [insert big budget tentpole]. I don't think a big-budget game being designed for mainstream consumption (which is all a blockbuster really is) makes it worth more than other games. And, honestly, market pricing trends tend to agree with me. AAA stuff that's not made by Nintendo generally only costs full price for the first few weeks or months in the market, after which they rapidly decline in price thanks to steep dips in demand. The niche stuff I tend to prefer generally holds its value better after launch.

Edited on by Ralizah

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NEStalgia

I take it back, Susato is low key snarky. Maya writing and Trucy model/animation. 3ds era for sure!

@ralizah shocked you'd be the kind of person actually venturing into public spaces yet. No chance I'd do it for at least another year. If ever.

Maybe much changed in 18 years but man, never seen those kinds of films in an Amc. Maybe it's after china bought them. It was always just the Paramount/Disney/Sony etc stuff. Sure transformers and You've Got Mail aren't the same budget but they're still big name celebrity filled hugely marketed expensive films.

The amcs are 100% dine in here though. Never. Regal isn't yet, but those prices.... No way.

I think we're on two sides of the opposite con on game prices. Yeah I agree they shouldn't be 70 to begin with. But if they're going to argue endless budgets means those prices then lower budget games shouldn't be those prices. You don't get to charge $100 for bugsnax just because naughty dog never met an expense line they dont love...

NEStalgia

JaxonH

I absolutely loved Xenoblade Chronicles 1. And I didn’t think I would like it as much as XCX (my previous favorite) or even XC2.

I have never based value solely on development budget or genre. Some genres naturally require higher budgets. But that doesn’t make them “worth more” in my eyes, or games of genres requiring smaller budgets “worth less”. No doubt production values do factor in, and I think there is a minimum threshold of what’s acceptable for a $60 game. But at the end of the day, it’s a multivariate equation with countless variables, not the least of which is overall entertainment and fun factor, quality of animations and relative presentation.

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze is worth every last dollar. It meets the AAA standards for its genre and is easily the most fun and entertaining 2D platformer I’ve ever played. The quality of animations are top notch and gameplay mechanics refined to precision. I can’t think of a more worthy $60 game for its genre.

Likewise, Metroid Dread screams value in every respect. It meets the AAA standards I expect for a 2D Metroid game, The quality of animations are top notch and I’m quite confident the gameplay mechanics will be refined to precision. And of course, I am extremely confident the game will be more fun and entertaining than the majority of similarly priced games.

Ori Blind Forest and Ori Will of the Wisps… both of these games, IMO, are worth $60, every bit as much as DKC:TF and MD. Which only made them that much more appealing when they were sold for $40 instead. Hollow Knight, on the other hand, isn’t a game I’d value at $60. More than $20 that’s for sure, but not $60. Maybe if it included the upcoming sequel as a bundle pack.

On the other hand, I have a long list of $60 AAA games I’ve purchased which, despite having a far superior budget and graphical prowess, even had quality animations, but weren’t even remotely the best of their genres, offered average fun and entertainment, and the gameplay mechanics were cookie cutter copies of every other similar game.

That’s not to say there aren’t great AAA graphical showpieces or mediocre 2D games. We have examples from everything of the sort. But ultimately, what determines the games value is not its budget. Unless it’s a $15 pixel indie- that I’m not going to pay $60 for no matter how good it is. Then again, look at Octopath Traveler. That game literally had pixel graphics and yeah I felt it was worth the $60 price tag. As I feel toward Project Triangle Strategy. Because the overall production value is much higher than that of your run-of-the-mill $20 indie game. And that’s really the only tier of game where I would categorically reject it at full price- when production values are clearly in the “extreme-amateur” camp. Doesn’t mean a game can’t still be a masterpiece- look at Celeste, or Dead Cells… but I wouldn’t value them at $60.

The fact 2D fighters are routinely sold for $60 with half a dozen season passes for $30/ea and nobody bats an eye, yet other more worthy (imo) games are sold for $60 without any additional pricing tiers and everyone gets in an uproar, really twists my knickers. “AAA” budgets and the race to bottom discounts after release has tarnished many gamers’ perception of value. Budget is now everything, and anything without a Hollywood firm funding the project is now deemed “of lesser worth”.

I just reached the 4th chapter of Great Ace Attorney Chronicles, and… wow. If I wasn’t completely and utterly sold as a newborn Ace Attorney fanboy, I certainly am now. That 3rd chapter was incredible.

Edited on by JaxonH

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VoidofLight

@JaxonH I honestly thought Xenoblade 1 was better than 2.. but then again, I like more serious stories, and not just a collection of over-done anime tropes, with bosses that destroy the tones of scenes.

(Insert creative or cool phrase here.)

JaxonH

@VoidofLight
XC1 story just landed better with me than XC2. Which, I still love XC2, but the antagonist was just so… one-note. That’s my biggest criticism against that game. Overall both were still very enjoyable though.

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

VoidofLight

@JaxonH I just didn’t like how 2’s tone really went all over the place. For example At one part of the game, you have this assassination plot, and it’s supposed to be incredibly serious. They have a serious “death scene”.. but the boss that causes this is a robotic maid and Nopon. So they tried to have an incredibly serious moment, but then you can’t take it seriously due to what killed the character in question.

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kkslider5552000

I can bring the topic full circle, since literally Xenoblade 2 is the reason I haven't played GAA yet.

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Donkey-Kong-Fan

Yes, I’m having a lot of fun with The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles. I’m almost done with the last case of Adventures. Can’t wait to play the sequel afterwards!

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JaxonH

There’s what, 5 cases per game, right? So going into the 4th case is well over the half way mark of the first game, I presume?

I take it there’s an overarching story spanning both titles with continuity?

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

Ralizah

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 frequently made me laugh and (almost) cry. It's a very emotional experience. I also loved the vivid, imaginative landscapes, and the heart-to-heart sequences were a treat throughout.

Comparatively, I had to largely force my way through XC1. I didn't care much about Shulk or most of the supporting cast. The revenge story framing goes on for way too long (the plot becomes WAY more interesting after Prison Island, IMO). Many of the landscapes are dull and kind of a slog to get through overall. Heart-to-hearts require obnoxious character affinity requirements that slow the game down to a crawl if you care about activating them, because there's no quick, easy way to rapidly increase affinity between characters that I've found. And, where XC2 nails the last act of its story, XC1 becomes too... metaphysical.

I also way prefer the setting of XC2. Living landmasses that become the focal point of wars over land and resources are immediately more intuitive and engaging to me than the mythical environment of the first game.

I'll try it again, though, and see if my opinion of the game doesn't improve with the DE. At least it doesn't look like a PS2 game anymore.

@JaxonH Yep. The first Great Ace Attorney game is largely just set-up for the second game in the duology, as I understand it.

Cases 4 & 5 are the first ones that really feel like full-fledged Ace Attorney cases in terms of their structure. Case 5 is also pretty long, as it spans 4 investigations segments and 4 trial segments. It's one of the longer cases in the series.

The game ends in a way where it's explicitly teasing bigger developments in the sequel. Will definitely be getting back to it soon.

Edited on by Ralizah

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VoidofLight

Huh, so the game is literally one game split into two then? Also I just got my copy off the eshop!

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Ralizah

@VoidofLight Yeah. I mean, both of the previous trilogies had story threads that carried over into subsequent games, but these really are just two halves of one huge story.

@NEStalgia Go get vaccinated and live your life. Covid isn't going anywhere at this point, so trying to wait it out isn't really a viable option.

Anyway, theaters are still pretty dead right now if you're not seeing Disney flicks, so they're pretty safe as far as public venues go.

Now, I'm not saying some games aren't more worth $60 to me than others, of course. Nobody wants to pay as much for Undertale as they do for Breath of the Wild. But I also don't think it's desirable to price games purely based on the amount of money that was pumped into their development budgets.

In general, I'm cool with paying up to $20 for good looking indies, $40 for smaller experiences that are more premium than indie experiences tend to be, and $60+ for full retail releases.

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kkslider5552000

The two part story across both games is definitely a new one to me. Like all the AA sequels connected and expanded on stuff from previous games in some way, and the original three games are clearly a trilogy, but they're still largely self-contained stories despite that (and a lot of the cases work similarly compared to other cases in the same game).

I almost wonder if maybe its a Golden Sun situation where it started as one game, and realized they couldn't or didn't want to pull that off and it made more sense to make two games.

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VoidofLight

@kkslider5552000 The fact that it seems like these were originally supposed to be one, reminds me of how old Final Fantasy games came on multiple disks, and each disk was a part of the same game, but had their own respective "final boss" in a way.

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