@Pizzamorg no it is not a dungeon, dungeons are masterfully designed places with various interesting twists, the open world in SMTV is just an empty vast place, nothing more
Maybe the early zones, but the later zones are more complex and more puzzle/trap like elements start getting slowly introduced. You have to start using your platforming skills more and more.
@CactusMan oh at least some, hope that more than just f.e. five or six ..... Nocturne, while a much older game, seems to have a better level design than SMTV, but yet I have not seen the whole game
@CactusMan oh at least some, hope that more than just f.e. five or six ..... Nocturne, while a much older game, seems to have a better level design than SMTV, but yet I have not seen the whole game
so you rather paying for additional xps than playing much more balanced games that respect you and your money?
The game does respect my time and money. The DLC has no impact on the design of the game. None whatsoever.
in what world I live that players thanking greedy devs for allowing them to buy xps for real money
A world where different players value different things, and where other players appreciate things you don't.
I don't really care what your thoughts are on the matter. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. But I will buy the things I want, and don't have to explain myself to you or defend my actions.
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
I'm enjoying how expansive the environments are in SMTV. There's a lot of things to discover. However, in some places I feel like there are way too many demons conglomerated in one area. Yes, you can run away but sometimes that's really inconvenient if you're trying to look around in a specific spot. I'm having fun finding the Mimans. I also like that I don't waste my materials on demons that decide not to join me after I've given them a bunch of stuff anymore. That was a nice feature.
@BlackenedHalo Nocturne's level design is probably the worst in the series, tbh, between some of the absolutely vicious late-game dungeon-wide teleporter puzzles, invisible walls everywhere in the labyrinth of Amala, one-way doors that constantly waste your time, and the general 'rat in a maze' design philosophy that's basically pure trial-and-error. And almost none of the dungeons reward curiosity or player initative when it comes to exploring the entire environment, as 75% of any dungeon is just empty space.
A few dungeons (Yoyogi Park; Diet Building; Obelisk; Kabukicho Prison) try to incorporate puzzles or interesting theming, but generally these efforts still don't add a lot to the dungeons. Yoyogi Park is a failed concept once you realize the map marks out where the teleport sections are after you run into them. Diet Building's visual illusions are COMPLETELY undone by the map, which always reveal which way you need to go. The Obelisk and Kabukicho both work, but the latter is profoundly tedious to go through.
While SMT V could probably do with more environmental diversity, I feel like it's a really solid example of complex level design in open environments. Environmental puzzles are also integrated well with the platforming.
Anyway, as has been stated, the areas you explore are very dungeon-esque, especially as the game goes on, and feature secrets, mini-bosses, platforming sections, the forementioned environmental puzzles, enemies everywhere, and tons of stuff to collect. The only difference is that they're not closed off locations, but instead are integrated into the larger world.
I'm enjoying how expansive the environments are in SMTV. There's a lot of things to discover. However, in some places I feel like there are way too many demons conglomerated in one area. Yes, you can run away but sometimes that's really inconvenient if you're trying to look around in a specific spot.
@Ralizah absolutely the best! A good dungeon is a place where you cannot be sure whether you are going the correct way or to a blind spot. A good dungeon is a place which is designed to be a maze-like structure often with various floors connected by various elevators. A good dungeon is full of traps, various enviromental hazards and danger. This is what dungeons are about.
Curiosity is also what a good dungeon is supposed to invoke. "Should I go this way or what about this way? Maybe if I open this door it will have something good for me. If I go this way, it may be easier, but on the other hand I may skip chests with a treasure."
Last but not least. A good dungeon is also supposed to be a bit monotonous and non-user friendly. Yes, you hear it. A dungeon is a place which you are not supposed to feel fine in. It is a place which constantly tortures you with its design. Why? Because dungeons are mostly designed by villains or by someone who does not want to be bothered by anything and anyone or it is a place built as a prison or a maze for all those locked there for eternity because of their sins and crime. That is why walking through dungeons is often a pain in the ass. If you feel exhausted, constantly feared about your HP in a dungeon and you are at the edge of insanity when looking at those various god-knows-where-leading hallways, then it is a good dungeon. A dungeon worth its name.
This is what dungeons are about. Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne has it everything!
"Yoyogi Park is a failed concept once you realize the map marks out where the teleport sections are after you run into them." So why did you use the map?
Maps and especially minimaps are the worst things in games! I hate them, especially when it cannot be turned off. Maps always reveal everything so there is no mystery for a player to discover.
@JaxonH but why? dont you realise that it only exists so that devs can have more money from you than they would have had, had they balanced their game properly as it should have been balanced in the first place?
you do not help this industry to be better actually...
@BlackenedHalo 1 I don't care why it exists. That's irrelevant to me. What I care about is that I find it useful at times and worth it.
2 Again, it has NOTHING to do with balance. These games are the same as they've always been, before DLC even existed.
3 It's not my job to "make this industry better". I'm a gamer, not an activist.
I don't want to have to block you, but if you insist lecturing me on what I do with my own money, that's exactly what's going to happen.
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
A good dungeon is a place where you cannot be sure whether you are going the correct way or to a blind spot. A good dungeon is a place which is designed to be a maze-like structure often with various floors connected by various elevators. A good dungeon is full of traps, various enviromental hazards and danger. This is what dungeons are about.
This seems like a very narrow conception of what a "good dungeon" should involve. I agree there should be some misdirection involved when navigating dungeons, but nothing to the degree that was in Nocturne's dungeons.
And there's really no reason for them to be mazes. The maze-like layouts of dungeons in RPGs is primarily due to the processing limitations of older hardware. Dungeon design should evolve with new hardware.
Curiosity is also what a good dungeon is supposed to invoke. "Should I go this way or what about this way? Maybe if I open this door it will have something good for me. If I go this way, it may be easier, but on the other hand I may skip chests with a treasure."
I agree. But Nocturne's dungeons don't invoke curiosity. There's almost nothing to find in them, and relatively few puzzles to solve. It's all stick and no carrot.
SMT V, on the other hand, is all about feeding the curiosity of the player.
Last but not least. A good dungeon is also supposed to be a bit monotonous and non-user friendly. Yes, you hear it. A dungeon is a place which you are not supposed to feel fine in. It is a place which constantly tortures you with its design. Why? Because dungeons are mostly designed by villains or by someone who does not want to be bothered by anything and anyone or it is a place built as a prison or a maze for all those locked there for eternity because of their sins and crime. That is why walking through dungeons is often a pain in the ass. If you feel exhausted, constantly feared about your HP in a dungeon and you are at the edge of insanity when looking at those various god-knows-where-leading hallways, then it is a good dungeon. A dungeon worth its name.
Most "dungeons" in SMT III don't even fit that theming, lol. It's just a catch-all terms for explorable environments with enemies, puzzles, etc. in games.
Maps and especially minimaps are the worst things in games! I hate them, especially when it cannot be turned off. Maps always reveal everything so there is no mystery for a player to discover.
Hard disagree. Maps are essential in any game heavily featuring exploration. Atlus knows this. The EO games are dungeon-crawlers all about constructing maps. In good JRPGs, the map and gameplay work in tandem to elevate the experience.
For example, in the second area of SMT V, there was an area with a bunch of small containment units. Almost all of them could be entered, but I noticed one wasn't able to be entered from the ground. Confused, I poked around for a while before eventually figuring out that, hey, if I climbed a nearby stack of crates and jumped onto the top of these buildings, I might find a way in, and, lo and behold, that previously unexplorable space had an open skylight I could jump into.
That's a decent environmental puzzle. Not some dank pit where you have to figure out through trial and error which invisible holes in the floor you have to fall through to get to a teleporter that'll redirect you where you need to go. SMT III is full of artificially difficult environments like that.
The director of SMT V was also the director of the Etrian Odyssey games, which makes me feel like we're going to see an evolution of that series' very old-school dungeon design as well when and if it comes to Switch.
@BlackenedHalo
I wasn't "forced" to do anything. I chose to. I WANT the game to involve leveling up and grinding. But I also want the option to get money quick if needed.
It's clear you have no concept of respecting others and only wish to impose your simple minded understanding of the world on others. So yes, I will be blocking you.
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
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