Topic: Shin Megami Tensei V Thread

@JaxonH I will look into it some more. In Nocturne, it felt essential, at least farther into the game.

Yeah, I think it will be this one or Metroid Dread, with New Pokémon Snap as a wild card.
Lot of great Switch games in 2021!

I got the game Friday but I fell asleep ten minutes into it (I'm exhausted from work, it's not the game!) Spent most of yesterday playing it, reached the first boss and the first major subquest boss. Both of those killed me last night, so I've spent the last hour amd change grinding and am about to fight the boss again.

Some impressions so far:

I love it.

I've played Strange Journey and Nocturne and loved them both, but this feels like what this series was always supposed to be. The demons are full of personality, both in speech and idle animations. The graphics are not super high-end but still very pretty. The map feels open, three dimensional and interesting. Someone described Nocturne as being a rat in a maze, and I'd say that's accurate and true for Strange Journey as well. It worked for the game, it was kind of part of the nightmare vibe that I associate with the series, but this works even better. This isn't a nightmare, it's a very dark lucid dream (and yes, there's a difference, don't start with me).

The challenge level (playing on Normal) feels just right so far. The game gives you enough agency to tactically win most of your fights and you're not scrabbling for Macca to heal yourself constantly, but you will get trounced by tougher enemies until you figure them out and do a little bit of grinding.

I love the demons' personalities. They interact with you and eachother so well. Like, I see a big ugly spider demon coming at me, I know it's going to be bad news because when was a spider demon ever not bad news? But the next spider demon I see is like, "hey bud, there's a really bad monster up ahead, you should rest before you try to fight it!" It makes me laugh and hooks me in, I feel like an actual inhabitant of the netherworld. And Sandman keeps on making me smile (I'm old, I relate to the old dudes).

Great game so far. Now let's try killing the giant penis monster once more, shall we?

@Quarth
Ya, you can watch this video here where Boomstick Gaming talks about it at the 2:40 mark. But the whole video is worth a watch.

@JaxonH Thanks!

Beat the first boss, with only Nahubino and the Sandman left in the team. None of them had much HP left, so I thought I was done for, but then Sandman landed the final blow with a Bufu, lol. 😅

FYI there's more than one way to do this. I don't want to spoil anything, but you can block the worst of those attacks without using defensive items. I lost two party members beating the boss, but the Nahubino survived and that's the important part.

(Tried to put some info here with a spoiler tag, but it didn't work. Sorry)

I ended up dropping my file to normal difficulty today. It got to the point where literally every boss, optional or otherwise, was curb-stomping my team into oblivion, lol. Hard mode on SMT V might be the third hardest experience I've had with the series to date (after trying Nocturne's hard mode and IV: Apocalypse's downloadable "apocalypse" difficulty, both of which are super brutal).

I'll probably do a full hard mode run in NG+, when it won't be as big of a deal if I'm stuck for a while or have to grind.

Crucially, normal difficulty is still pretty challenging.

Yeah, I am not a fan of the difficulty pacing at all. I wonder if they made it extra grindy to sell all those MTXs. And it is made worse because of the lack of autosaves.

It is a shame because I love the music, the art direction, the core systems were strong even in Nocturne and they seem even better realised here (even if it seems weirdly pulled back in places) but I just seem like whenever I start settling in and enjoying SMT V, it turns around, slaps me in the face and tells me “no fun allowed”. I know some people like that stuff, so good for them and I’m glad for the rest of us there is safety mode.

So far, comparing this to my favorite game in the series:

Music: V > IV: Apocalypse (probably the best OST in the series to date, although SMT IV's OST is a close second; this current composer puts Meguro's compositions to shame)

Presentation: V > IV: Apocalypse (seeing the demons in detailed, expressive 3D is awesome; although, personally, I prefer the presentation of the 3DS games to the more basic 3D stylings of Nocturne, since the PS2 didn't have the processing power to do justice to the demons)

Level Design: V > IV: Apocalypse (the entire world is like a dungeon now, full of intricate, vertical surfaces, tons of nooks and crannies to poke around, secrets hidden everywhere, platforming, etc. It's awesome, and way better than IV's mix of basic dungeons and flat urban environments)

Balancing: Draw (both games seem well balanced on their equivalent of normal mode; while I personally prefer the harder initial difficulty of V, I do think IV:A's smooth escalation of difficulty from easy to quite challenging was probably better for new players)

Mechanics: IV: Apocalypse > V (partner system and balanced smirking were awesome, and I hate the way buffs were nerfed in V; also, I prefer the demon whispering from the 3DS duology to collecting essences and changing your loadout in this game, since it more intimately tied your character's growth to that of your demons)

Story: IV: Apocalypse > V (obviously it's hard to judge at this point, but I hate all of the babbling about law and chaos already, and IV:A had a reasonably fleshed out story compared to most other games in the series. Although, in this one particular area, I actually think base SMT IV might take the cake, as it had some really shocking plot developments that were handled well)

Characters: IV: Apocalypse > V (I don't care how controversial it was for long-time fans, I liked having a full cast of fun, well-developed personalities who didn't just vanish for tens of hours at a time; so far, nobody is really standing out to me, just like with Nocturne's cast)

Setting: IV: Apocalypse > V (I really jive more with the grungy sci-fi/cyberpunk feel of the 3DS duology than the explicit fantasy theming of Nocturne and V; also, I prefer a post-apocalyptic but still inhabited and lively near-future Tokyo to endless sand everywhere. Also not a fan of not being able to use guns and customize my appearance in Nocturne and V)

Obviously a lot of this is subject to change over the course of the game; I've only played V for 13 hours or so compared to 100 with IV: Apocalypse. But some of these, I think, are fairly set in stone judgements unless something drastically changes like in SMT IV.

@Pizzamorg Nah. Nocturne didn't have DLC originally and its hard mode was even harder from the get go. And if they wanted to sell people on dlcs by making the game artificially difficult, they wouldn't include multiple difficulty options. Moreover, despite the challenge of the battles, it doesn't wittle down the xp gained or jack up the prices for summoning demons from the compendium like many of the games do on harder difficulties.

SMT is meant to be hard, so the default difficulty is balanced to be challenging but doable with the right builds. Hard Mode is there for the masochists, and the easier difficulties are there for people who aren't up for the challenge but like the exploration/demon collecting/etc.

I think that if a gamer has no experience with smt, he should start on casual. The franchise has some pretty unique mechanics comparing to other jrpgs and the press turn system can punish the player even on normal battles. This is part of the SMT allure imo. Grinding is rarely the answer when you are stuck on a boss.

Now that I'm getting used to the world/exploration, I'm really liking that aspect of it. Feels very Xenoblade in that while it's not exactly open world, the areas are huge & fun to poke around in.

Though I still feel compelled to hightail it back to a save point everytime I achieve even the smallest bit of progression (even if it's just getting an item from one of those glowy yellow things, lol).

@RR529 Me too. Death can come at any time.

The game certainly gets a LOT easier when SPOILER: you unlock the ability to automatically teleport back to the last leyline you used. Now you can push much harder, as long you as you survive with at least the main character alive, you can hit that L button and be back to safety.

But why not give us this at the beginning? This is what I mean about the difficulty pacing. If the game is going to get easier as we go along, that is a problem. They said they wanted more newcomers with this entry, but then make the opening section the hardest part of the game outside of random difficulty spikes.

I just beat the first "major boss" an hour or two ago, tonight has been the first time that I've been able to properly sit down with it.
The boss was slightly disappointing due to the difficulty...I thought it wasn't very challenging! I was expecting it to be the equivalent to the Matador, Minotaur, etc. But they clearly tell you what it does and where it is in advance. It's a shame that they made a demon with tons of Xenomorph heads and I was still disappointed. That's almost impressive.

To be honest my main issue is that the attack and menu buttons have been swapped from IV and Apocalypse, my muscle memory hasn't adjusted yet. But if that's my biggest issue then I'd say that's a good sign!
Of course it's a little rough from a technical perspective but it's the most fun I've had with a game for a long time

Beginning of the game hasn't been that hard to me. And the safety difficulty has been provided for anyone to Switch to as needed. I don't think the game gets easier as you go, I think it gets harder, it just gives the player more tools to deal with that harder difficulty as they progress.

BTW, when fusing a new demon, if I don't want to lose the original one I used, do I just buy it back from the registered compendium afterward? If so, that solves my biggest concern with fusion.

I think the very opening is fine, but then as you start facing any non in the wild enemy you get the full brunt of the game’s insane difficulty spikes, with very little to really manage them. But then as you keep going, you get a bunch of stuff like the SPOILER teleport thingy, or that person who heals you after every fight and plus you just have a generally stronger, more balanced, team, I think the moment to moment gets much easier. That doesn’t stop the game spiking out of nowhere and kicking your ass, but overall, it definitely gets better. But this is all the byproduct of poor difficulty pacing, in my opinion. There are things you get later on, that simply had no reason to not be there from the beginning and the difficulty spikes/lack of autosave, feel like artificial challenge rather than true contests, which is a shame as I think it undermines how fun the battles can be. The weakness exploit stuff can make things feel a little basic, but I love all the animations for attacks/all the unique quirks of the demons - even the unique conversations demons can have amongst themselves. But then just as I’m enjoying that catch ‘em all rhythm, my whole team gets one shot out of nowhere and I hold my breath and hope to God I saved recently.

@pizzamorg what difficulty spikes are you referring to? what difficulty level have you chosen?

@Pizzamorg I don't know, "insane difficulty spikes" might as well be SMT's official catchphrase as far I'm concerned. The Matador in Nocturne will TPK you in one or two turns, over and over until you stumble on exactly the right build AND grind like a ***** to make it work. And there is no buildup to it at all, you're just cruising along with your demon homies, feeling like a rock star, and then the Matador is like "hi, I'm the Matad- oh, sorry, it seems I've killed you all. Go spend 15 hours leveling up, and we'll have a proper talk."

I like the save system. This game is built around difficulty. It’s part of its DNA. And unfortunately you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Autosave is definitely preferable in the majority of games but for this particular game I like the tension that it brings as you journey from save point to save point. Because there’s actually something at stake. The tension is real. Otherwise there’s no punishment or even threat of punishment for reckless abandon as you plow through the game.

It makes you play carefully and deliberately, and that’s by design. Maybe some people don’t like that but I love it and I think that’s part of what makes this game so special. Besides which, the save points are incredibly close together. So it’s not like you’re losing that much progress unless you’re just not being smart about saving.

And, by no means am I an expert on SMT, but one thing I do know is that difficulty spikes rarely come from being under leveled and almost always come from not being properly prepared for that fight. Obviously being leveled up helps, but if you’re fighting an unknown enemy, using a Spyglass should be a given. Swap out your team for ones that aren’t weak to its attacks, especially if it’s Light or Dark. Keep at least 3 of every element as an item to deflect attacks in case you can’t avoid a certain weakness. There are steps that can be taken to avoid those types of situations. I think it’s just a matter of coming to terms with the game and adapting as you progress. Doesn’t mean you won’t still struggle sometimes. Just have to utilize proper tactics and use save points liberally. You run at the speed of light in this game and can reach a save point in less than a minute at any given time.

I just fused an Angel and a Mermaid. They’re so cool. I love the designs and the models in this game. Just ran across this towering giant made of rock. Wow… it reminds me of summons in Final Fantasy XV (one of the things that game actually nailed). The sense of awe and wonder is something I don’t get from many games nowadays.

There's a difference between poor difficulty pacing and difficulty spikes during boss fights. Insane, challenging bosses who stomp you the first time you encounter them and force you to scramble for new strategies, demons, movesets, etc. are core to the identity of the series, frankly. Part of the cycle of satisfaction that arises from these games is learning to conquer challenges that seemed insurmountable when you first encountered them. And you get here by building your teams differently, prioritizing skillsets for your character and demons that synergize during battle, accounting for your enemy's strengths and building around those, etc.

In general, the game's level of challenge should scale as you gain more tools to master, have access to more demons, etc.

The game probably waits to dole out stuff like the instant teleport ability because the developers want you to learn to survive without it first, I imagine.

I'm... mixed on the use of save points. It does seem VERY old-fashioned, and the 3DS games did just fine by allowing the player to save basically anywhere. I can see arguments for and against it. With that said, being able to instantly warp to a save point at any time, combined with the game pretty much always telling you when you're about to encounter a boss of some sort, makes this a non-issue, IMO.

@JaxonH You need to register your demons in the compendium. If you do this, it'll overwrite the generic data for the demons with your own customized ones. Then, once you summon them again, they should be identical to the way they were when you registered them.

I always find the beginning and the end of SMT games to be the most challenging. The end is difficult for obvious reasons but I think the beginning is just so limited.
You have limited options for demons, attacks, skill slots, places to go, etc. It's great training for the rest of the journey but they don't let you leave until you have fully grasped everything.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Leyline Founts compared to IV. Not being able to save and fuse everywhere is a little annoying, but I don't miss having to run back to the underground areas for shops and terminals.
It's not like it takes long to run across Da'at anyway. The checkpoints are close enough if you run directly between them.