Topic: Pokémon Scarlet & Pokémon Violet

Oh man, the final act of the game is honest to good great. It's a shame that this game is held back by the technical stuff.
The final boss is easily the best fight in the series, just purely based on how badass it is.

The thing is though, voice acting wouldn’t fix the state of the games? It adds nothing to the overall gameplay. It’s just a thing people grew accustomed to, and now feel as if they’re entitled to every single game doing it. @Pizzamorg

No, it doesn't solve the technical problems, but it certainly adds to the overall experience, for sure. I dunno how you could even try and deny that. If God of War Ragnarok was entirely text based, silent in all of the cutscenes and everyone had completely static faces, of course that game wouldn't hit the same. And it feels so glaring to me for that reason, we are playing a 2022 open world game with this level of presentation? And the text, the lack of voice acting, the lack of animations, it is all part of that.

They could have assumedly unlimited budgets for these games if they wanted to, ask them to be better rather than being so defeatist.

When I played Violet I made everyone sound Scottish (before I refunded the game)

I just can't believe we are having this conversation. I imagine people in like 1905 were having this exact conversation about adding sound to movies and the problems that could cause. But here in 2022, we already know how much actual motion capture and vocal performances add to a game, it isn't even a discussion.

Making defeatist statements like "well they could do it poorly" isn't anything. They could do anything poorly, but that doesn't mean you don't try to make things better.

Guess I’m odd then, since it doesn’t ruin the experience to me. I’m fine with characters not being voiced, and still get impact from cutscenes despite that. @Pizzamorg

Just beat the final Titan.

I am in utter shambles right now.

Turo is an evil SOB. Even worse than Cynthia

Just got Pokey Violet a few minute ago just now by Fed Ex.

Im curious about the new starter pokemon. are they any good? Which one is strong for the whole game?

also can I use Pokemon Home to put one starter in there after another then restart the game to have all 3 or there hasnt been an update for Pokemon Home where you can use it for Pokemon Violet/Scarlet?

Talking about VA, I see Nintendo Life has actually done an article on this and found this little proof of concept. Massive spoilers so don't click on it if you haven't finished the game, but very clear evidence on how these narrative beats are inherently improved by the inclusion of voice acting alone.

In terms of starters, I picked the fire one and they were honestly a massive crutch. I dunno if they have balanced every starter around this, but at least from my experience with the fire starter, there were like four gyms I could basically just use the starter alone to beat because of super effective moves. One Elite Four member was the same. I kept them in my party so their level was generally always the highest in my team, so when it came to neutral battles with no clear type advantages, they could also steamroll as well. They honestly carried me through most of my playthrough. I think there were only a couple of gyms and external battles where I was actually at a type disadvantage and there I could swap in others.

I agree @EaglyTheKawaiiShika, as someone who seems more lukewarm on this game than many do in this thread, the one thing I will say is as far as Pokemon games go anyway, the story is actually pretty good. Especially during the final stretch, it hit me with a few "oh *****!" moments and just generally, a lot of the narrative threads start quite fluffy but end up going to some darker, more mature, places than I really remember Pokemon games going previously.

I know Pokemon games have always had darker elements, but they are generally unspoken or within the lore of something or whatever, it is usually the subtext, rather than just the text like it is here. And that is where the rub comes in, because I am playing this and thinking... if the story seems this solid just from completely silent text boxes, imagine how much better this all would be with actual modern voice acting and motion capture.

I used Ragnarok as a great inverse example of that, no spoilers, but when you really think about it not a lot of Ragnarok's ending makes a huge amount of sense, and one could argue that some of the narrative beats end a little anti-climatically. But you won't notice this at the time, because the combination of the voice acting, the motion capture, the game direction and general high level of presentation and polish completely sweep you into moments in a way I just don't think the game could if Kratos was just standing there with a fixed expression while I had to furiously press a button to skip through text boxes that just say "Boy!" in them.

I personally don't think that voice acting is needed at all to convey emotion or convey feeling. Many games are able to do without it, especially older ones. People who claim that they can't feel emotional moments hit hard in SV confuse me, since the characters don't just have stilted looks upon their face. They have facial expressions which convey the emotion the devs wanted them to convey, and they use specific language in the text to showcase that emotion as well. Even the rendered cutscenes showcase this. Hell, even SV nearly made me tear up towards the end.

Maybe I'm just a freak or something who doesn't understand the massive importance of voice acting in gaming, but for me I've never needed it for an enjoyable experience, and for Pokemon as a series, I'm glad that it lacks it.

I wouldn't go as far as to call you a freak, you are welcome to your own opinion. But I dunno how you can watch that clip Nintendo Life found that I posted above and go... nah, I think those cutscenes were better in the game when they were totally silent. Like if that is how you feel, then okay, but that is absolutely crazy to me.

Also, using examples like older games is in my opinion not a great argument, that wasn't a creative choice, it was a hardware limitation, I am sure there are loads of games from the 90s/early 00s where devs would love to give them say the Tactics Ogre treatment of providing full voice acting and other modernisations to them.

I also disagree with your other points to be honest. Sure, characters faces shift between different multiplayer emote expressions and that might be enough if it was an indie made by 5 people, but come on man, this is a 2022 open world triple AAA game, ask for more. This complacency is why Pokemon games don't evolve.

@Pizzamorg I've already stated my reasoning for why I'd rather Gamefreak not do voice acting. I can't be bothered to listen to the same cringe that the anime pushes out time and time again, and I'd rather just have silence than Gamefreak's alternative of forcing the player to play with horrible english voice acting. We all know they won't give options to switch the dubs like other companies.

Yes! You learn so much about these characters and the world around them, and just generally draw deeper connections, just based on throwaway little conversations characters have while you play. I always said my favourite part of 2018 was Kratos and Mimir telling stories in the boat, and so much would have been lost if that was all told through text.

The applications for Pokemon are obvious in this context too, imagine the sense of wonder at the world if your character could actually express that. Imagine sharing your excitement for a new Pokemon with the character you are actually playing.

But as others have said, even if it was just key cutscenes were voiced, even that would be enough for me for now while they work on getting the game into a better place technically. That clip shows how just a few voiced scenes, even if the rest of it was text, could really go a long way in elevating narrative beats and building a deeper emotional connection with the player.

I dunno, I don't watch the anime. I do know the voice acting in that clip though is really excellent and I guess despite all the claims of how negative I am on here by people, I am still somehow more positive than you 😂

I don't wanna be so defeatist in assuming the worst of every improvement and innovation they could make, as I could really say that about anything they chose to change or add in a Pokemon game and I guess it is fans who do thing in that negative way are the ones holding this franchise back from true greatness based on sales, as Pokemon games haven't meaningfully evolved in decades. Sure, we are in an open world now, but mechanically it is still the same old stuff. In some regards I think that is fine, but in a lot of ways I think Scarlet is so much less than it could have been.

I guess if you don't want more, then fine that is your opinion and I guess millions agree with you based on sales, but I definitely do want more.

@Pizzamorg Eh, as someone who used to watch the anime before I couldn't take it anymore, it was grating on the nerves.

I'm also not really opposed to big gameplay changes being made that up the quality or feel of the game. I didn't despise Legends in how it did the noble fights, or how it changed the combat. I just don't really care for the addition of voice acting, since given how Gamefreak didn't give people options in the past, and how their target demographic is children, it's most likely just going to end up like the anime, given that reaches their target demographic. If we get voice acting, I'm mostly sure it won't be to the quality that the video you posted is.

This I can sorta agree with you on. As much as I appreciate Pokemon remaining a true turn based JRPG, and I hope this never changes as we don't have enough new turn based JRPGs coming out these days that aren't little indie homages to games past, it is kinda wild to me that SV include three quest lines, but they are all just identical turn-based battles at their core with no mechanical variation. I know you have like the raids on bases and the gym trials and stuff, but those are just distractions rather than meaningful mechanical innovations.

I personally thought the Noble fights were poorly designed, and poorly implemented (but let us not get into this again) but man did I miss them during the Titan storyline in SV. You got this giant ass super powered Pokemon variant, and it is just a straight up regular Pokemon battle like it was tossed out by any other trainer. Wtf?!

And as much as I didn't like Arceus overall, I thought both the more active role of the trainer in the world (like oh man, Pokemon can actually attack me and knock me out. Actual danger in a Pokemon game, so cool!) and the real time, gyro led, Pokemon catching (oh baby, hitting a backshot, the most satisfying feeling in the world. Please don't inneundo this) were both excellent innovations that kept me engaged with that game during its lowest moments.

The fact that all of that innovation is just straight missing for SV is so bizarre to me. It would seem like an obvious slam dunk to me to take all the mechanical improvements of Arceus and just stick 'em in a more traditional Pokemon game like SV. But I guess they had other ideas, and those ideas were... to roll everything backwards a few years, I guess?

@EaglyTheKawaiiShika are you trying to suggest to me a Pokemon game won't be improved by including a moment where a Pokemon goes 'Skiddee skidee skiddee'? 😂 But nah, I get what Void is saying, but I think bad voice acting (especially bad English dubbing) for things like videogames and anime is something we grew up with and think is still the norm, but generally it is pretty excellent these days, and it is the really bad ones that end up standing out (like the example you used) because that kinda stuff isn't the norm anymore, at least not when it comes to mainstream stuff, which I guess kinda warps the impression, because the good stuff has become the norm so it doesn't get talked about in the same way.

Although that English trailer for that new Fire Emblem game? YEEEEEEESH that was ROUGH. That really doesn't help my argument, thanks so much Nintendo 😂

@EaglyTheKawaiiShika The mouse cursor doesn't mean anything for competence, and people just keep bringing that up, when it's a overdone point at this point. Xenoblade 3, a game made by monolithsoft, also has this exact same issue in one of it's cutscenes. You can see where they accidentally left the cursor in.

Nearing the endgame now: finished both Path of Legends and ⭐Starfall Street⭐ (gotta make sure to have the stars) and I just beat the final gym leader there today. Also got my final team sorted as well:

• Scovi the Skeledirge (my starter and my favourite of the Paldean trio)
• Tsurf the Clodsire (loved Paldean Wooper from first sight and I love Clodsire even more)
• Swish the Wugtrio (I absolutely adore this Pokemon and if no-one else is going to use him THEN SO SHALL I)
• Jazz the Lokix (one of my favourite unused type combos finally exists on a badass Kamen Rider locust, you better believe I'm using this)
• Oyle the Arboliva (was originally going to drop them due to preferring Smoliv and Dolliv design-wise but they saved me from total annihilation at the Ghost Gym and have only gotten more reliable ever since, I've warmed up considerably towards them)
• Keysa the Kilowattrel (didn't have a clue for what my final team member was going to be until I noticed this gal sitting in my boxes before taking on the final Titan and I must say: smartest decision of my goddamn life, this mon is CRACKED)

Only thing left between me and Area Zero is the Pokemon League and I'm so damn excited.

Oh and I found a shiny Wattrel within 20 minutes of doing an outbreak after beating Grusha.

So I'm pretty happy right now.

LMAO I thought you were talking about Ragnarok.