Topic: Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee!

@Bolt_Strike The execution is not the point, the fact that we're not getting left-field stuff like Ranger, Colosseum, Pinball or TCG is. New stuff that complements the mainline games by bringing something new to the table.

And if we're doomed to just keep getting entries in the Mystery Dungeon/Trozei/Rumble series, I'd like to see those abandoned ideas used to revitalized the mainline games. Just as an idea: a "job" system for the trainer that adds bonuses and limitations to your playstyle. Self-imposed roleplaying just isn't the same, there's no incentive.

In summary: I agree. I don't dislike open world, but tacking it onto everything will make the concept feel old quite fast IMO. Pokemon is a good concept for it, but knowing Game Freak, that might be setting our expectations a bit high.

As for spinoffs....While I haven't played these games, I've seen enough footage to know that I would enjoy a game in the vein of Colosseum/XD. I also wouldn't mind another proper Pokemon Stadium-eque game to get the taste of Battle Revolution out of my mouth. I suppose Pokken technically fills that niche for some, but I feel like that's its own thing.

Edit: I also wouldn't mind seeing another game like Pokemon Conquest, I missed out on that one.

Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness was the junk. Allowing you to catch your enemies pokemon was such a cool thing and it basically made the game for me.

Anyways, Pokemon would make a great open world game. As to whether that would actually happen, basically a complete no.

I don't really think Pokemon spin-offs are gone? In the last hardware generation we've gotten Detective Pikachu, that's a brand new spinoff. Before that there was Magikarp Jump (which yes is mobile, but still new), Pokemon Shuffle (on 3ds), Pokemon Art Academy, Pokemon Picross, Pokemon GO (again mobile but innovative), Tretta, in addition to new Trozei, Rumble, TCG (on PC) and Mystery Dungeon titles. That's almost everything covered except a Pinball, Snap, Ranger, kids (Hey You/Channel/Pokepark), or Colleseum/Stadium title, and two of those probably didn't happen solely because the failure of the Wii U.

After playing Breath of the Wild, I definitely do have the expectation that any game that claims to be an "adventure" game should definitely feature such a large, expansive region to explore. That doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be completely open, but to go back to small guided paths for an adventure game just feels wrong for me now.

To me, that's just the natural progression of an adventure series.

Agreed. I can be lenient, especially in Pokemon's case since it's new to console and HD development, on no open world. But it should still feel large and open ended. I think in Pokemon's case they should shoot for something more like Twilight Princess, that would be large and open ended enough to feel like a proper console game while still being linear enough that they don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Or a trailer for the new movie. You know...that's a thing.

@MarcelRguez Pokemon TCG was good game. I miss those types of games.

@Tyranexx I'm still of the opinion that Colosseum is one of the best Pokemon games. You're limited in the amount of Pokemon you can catch, and the Pokemon available are generally Johto Pokemon with mediocre movesets and stats, but it makes the games so difficult and I love it. Double battles allow for more strategy as well; The double battle abilities and moves become finally useful (because nobody ever used a move like Helping Hand during their playthrough of RSE), and even moves like Growl and Tail Whip have its use since they now hit both opponents, having the same net effect as something like Swords Dance.

XD is a bit over the top with its story and characters, I'm not a fan of that. And the reused models from Stadium for the Kanto Pokemon are pretty bad.

@Octane They reused models for the Johto Pokemon too. Then they did it again for PBR.

Plus...I didnt really like the GC games. Felt slow. Anjmations were really drawn out and while XD had better Pokemon variety, it still wasnt good.

And lets not forget about how we all kept one Shadow Pokemon on hand just in case someone had one because Shadow moves were super effective on EVERYTHING except Shadow Pokemon.

I would also say Colosseum had the over the top story. Evil clown mayor, latino dancer, tribal warrior, weird actor, silent wavy hair anime guy? Those are the villains?

Oh and Team Snagem for that sweet sweet whiplash in tone. Plus, and dont get me wrong its not a bad thing but...an underground crime city? Ya wanna talk OTT, Shadow Lugia lifting a ship and a secret volcano base is more grounded than what Colosseum fired out.

Colosseum is what happens if Pokemon tries to be darker and edgier without the well thought out characters like in BW or SM.

Or the fun.

@YummyHappyPills But the Johto models from Stadium 2 looked fine, most of the Kanto Pokemon didn't.

Of course it's silly, I never said it wasn't, but the giant evil pyramid HQ and the island were a bit too much. I mean, who built all of that? There's more building materials in the Cipher buildings in XD than there are in normal buildings. And the Hexagon brothers? I don't like it when they do lazy colour swaps.

I liked the simplistic nature of the first game. No focus on a big legendary Pokemon. How it was mostly set in a desert, etc. I liked the desert aesthetic. And I didn't care for the new areas they introduced.

@link3710 None of those are new other than Detective Pikachu though, they're new titles on sub-series introduced generations ago. On 3DS, you have the ones I listed, the Pokédex apps and that's about it. There's no new Pokémon spin-off that expands the concept of Pokémon at large the way series like Ranger, Mystery Dungeon or Colosseum did (and obviously, reskinned games like Picross or Puzzle League don't actually do anything of the sort). Haven't played Detective Pikachu, maybe that will help.

Colosseum and Gale of Darkness were Pokemon spinoffs developed externally in the early 2000s... you really think it's fair to blame them for having simple characters? I bet they weren't even allowed to make anything deeper. And while we're on the topic, how is anyone in Sun and Moon 'complex?' They just smile a lot and state their life goals. I liked them fine, but they're not exactly a step above.

Anyway, I think Gale of Darkness is a good test case. All they did was make a 3D Pokemon without the gym badge rule, without the trainer's Pokemon rule for certain Pokemon, without random encounters — it impressed a ton of people, myself included. They don't really need to change much for Pokemon to feel different.

Pokken was also a new spinoff, although that didn't make it to 3DS. Honestly, it seems like the series is pretty stuck on a mobile kick right now, they seem to have approached the 3DS games under the impression that mobile is the end all be all of the market and so every video game should be equally as dumbed down to sell. Hopefully that's changing with the Switch now proving them wrong.

As far as new spinoffs though, I'm not really sure where else Pokemon can go that it hasn't before. Most of the major genres have been covered at one point or another, what else CAN they do? My main concern is that I want to see games with a large amount of content and exploration again, those are elements that have been sorely missing from the series because of the aforementioned issues with mobile.

The problem is that open world is almost a no way back situation. Like with BotW being a success and the developers finding that game the most fun to make in the series, I don't see them going back to the OoT style that was prominent before its existence outside of HD remasters kind of like how top down Zelda games were limited to releasing on the less powerful systems (i.e. handhelds) after LttP.

I mean like all bubbles, open world games will eventually burst. You already see that when a game like Mass Effect Andromeda fails to sell, let alone all the unfinished open world games from lauded series like MGS and Final Fantasy that betray the unsustainable development cost. It sure sucks for this gen and perhaps the next though.

@-Green- What do you estimate they do the same old thing, but looking shinier and maybe with less FPS drops?

True, but that burst of new games was caused by having new developers suddenly entering Pokemon. Mystery Dungeon and Conquest were crossovers of existing series by Chunsoft and Koei Tecmo respectively, while Creatures has replaced developing the Ranger titles with Detective Pikachu. Genius Sorority seems to have settled in on just making the simpler Pokemon puzzle spinoffs like Trozei and Shuffle, but they're probably the only company likely to surprise us right now. Keep in mind, part of the reason for the lack of spin-offs was Creatures taking time off from developing games to prep the HD assets for all the Pokemon, as usually they're the most prolific creators of them.

@Grumblevolcano For Zelda, Aonuma already hinted/leaked that theyr'e still continuing the "handheld" type Zelda games...maybe he meant mobile, but based on what he said I get the feeling they're not planning to discontinue the 2D style zelda just because 3D style has gone open world. So I think we'll still see two types of zelda games. Open world "main line" and 2D/2.5D adventures that are more classic.

@Haru17 Mass Effect didn't fail to sell because it was open world, it failed to sell because it was catastrophically broken and dumped on the market in late Winter when nobody was looking, right around Switch's launch in hopes nobody would notice how dismal the game really was until they fixed it. MGSV made bullion (though, copypaste from unpopular opinions thread I don't actually like it.)

A good quality linear game will always beat an open world for me. Open world games these days focus more on quantity than quality I feel. That doesn't mean that they can't be good, but it's very easy for developers to fill the entire world with meaningless busywork. A friend of mine only plays open world games. Why? Because it offers more hours of gameplay per euro spent than the average linear game, but he doesn't care about the fact that most of that time is spend walking from place to place and doing pointless side quests.

It depends on what satisfies you. I’m not really picky.