Topic: Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee!

@link3710 Unless you want every cave, route, building and forest be sparse open spaces to accommodate for the giant Pokemon, they should totally keep the separate battle screens.

@MarcelRguez Agreed regarding open world. While the old meaning of open world applies even to Pokemon, the current meaning of open world is the BotW/Skyrim approach to games which has been overused to death in gaming during current gen.

@Grumblevolcano But if not open-world, then where does Pokemon even go? Just repeat the same thing until it gets so worn out, that people get tired of even that?

@toiletduck @MarcelRguez Even if they do they, there are multiple alternatives to make free camera control work. They could have a button to center the camera, which most 3D games tend to have anyway. They could have a tutorial that shows you how to control the camera. Children aren't that stupid, if they don't know how to work the camera it's not that hard to teach them, and if they're not learning that's the fault of the developer, not the market (after all, games are, in one sense, a teaching tool). There's no excuse for them to keep the gameplay this dumbed down, this isn't Dora the Explorer, the kids playing this game should already know or be able to develop basic problem solving skills.

Just because you can't control the camera, doesn't mean the game is dumbed down. If there's no reason for camera movement, there's no reason for it being in the game. Pokemon isn't an action game or a platformer. It can do fine without camera controls. See Colosseum and XD as examples of how a fixed camera angle is perfectly fine in a big 3D game.

@MFD Continue to slightly change up the formula like say for example add a system kind of like the merc group in Xenoblade 2. Also a proper post-game would be nice, say for example the evil group regroups after their failure in the main story and receives backup from an evil group in Orre allowing Shadow Pokemon to enter the new region (I don't remember much about XD, I didn't finish it either so I don't know if the events of XD means this is impossible).

Except the problem is that he's saying that Pokemon shouldn't have nonlinear maps because of the camera issues. That's why it's dumbed down, he's saying kids aren't capable of much more than moving forward or backward (which is wrong).

@Bolt_Strike Moot point, because a fixed camera angle will make the games more accessible by default. But that's besides the point. The games don't need it, so there's no reason to implement it. Of all the things that need to be fixed, camera controls are all the way at the bottom of the list.

I can picture it now like the bros in FFXV, but with Ash and the gang driving into the horizon in their Pikachu themed Caddy.

@MarcelRguez What would it add in your opinion then? Hiding a couple of hidden items behind a tree, building or rock? Because that's the only reason I can think of. It adds something, but I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives of developing an entire world with that in mind. It's also because I don't think GameFreak is capable of delivering a game like that without cutting corners in other (more important) aspects.

@Grumblevolcano So basically still same old same old? I guess it was silly to hold out hope for them to do better then

@Octane The problem is that controllable cameras are necessary for less linear game design. If you have a fixed camera angle, you can't really see what's to the left or right of you or behind you very easily, you can only really see what's in front of you. If you've played XY you should understand perfectly why the games need a controllable camera because there were several areas in that game that needed one to explore them properly, namely Lumiose City and Azure Bay. Not having one prevents them from designing levels like those and instead forces the game to be linear, which is the entire issue here. The map design doesn't need to be handicapped just because kids are used to mobile games, that's taking accessibility to a ridiculous extreme to the point where it limits game quality.

@MarcelRguez A chore? That's a tremendous exaggeration. They just need a simple tutorial that takes about 1 minute. For example, maybe the PC is following the rival, and then leads him to the left or right. The rival could then tell the player how to control the camera so you can see him and continue on. This isn't rocket science.

You know Ive never seen such an in-depth discussion on the importance of a camera, the type of camera and functionality of a camera regarding certain kinds of games and the worlds they want to build.

And I studied game design for 3 years.

@MarcelRguez They didn't teach programming, optimisation, anything like this. Just aggressive monetisation, pretty visuals, and story.

I've also been quietly following this camera discussion. It's refreshingly different from the usual debates.

I think a freemoving camera could really make the world seem larger. You know how they have to scale Pokémon all the time because they are too big for the overworld normally? If the camera were farther away it would solve that problem. Of course you'd also need to be able to change the camera angle then too. If you just zoom out, it makes everything else too small. I like to think of it this way: Would Xenoblade Chronicles 2 be the same game if they chose a topdown or fixed camera for it?

As long as the game is still turn based, it wouldn't really be a problem for kids to adapt to the camera controls. The game is slow paced, you are in no hurry to move the camera. It's much more crucial to be able to use the camera in a platformer like Odyssey.

In short: I don't think it's necessary to give the players the ability to move the camera but it could potentially make the world feel more alive if they build the game around it.

@MFD If they went for open world, I think they'd make even more significant changes like getting rid of the turn based battle system.

Pokemon at least should Experiment and try changes. This is the largest piece of hardware they've ever got to work with and with more advanced controls. The success of Mario Odyssey and Zelda Breath of the Wild is from, sure, being more open world, but for the most part because the change to the formula. Will they throw out the battle system, no, as much as they'll throw out mario jumping or link weilding a sword. I for one am tired of the linearity of the recent pokemon games with progression goes, mostly because they want to play on those themes in the story of connecting with people and pokemon in their games. Its also because they'll always go to their largest market: kids. I come to catch and battle and to check out the new pokemon. I appreciate what they try but the format is so 1 2 3 at this point that they need to change it.
One way they could do this is release a more linear pokemon and a more open pokemon and see how they differ, that'd be interesting.(though they never will.... sigh)

@Grumblevolcano Just open-world for the sake of moving and interacting with people.

I don't see why they would do that. Turn-based battling is one of the most central concepts of a Pokemon game. There's absolutely no reason they would have to do that with an open world game.

@MarcelRguez ""make it 3D, with full camera control, no railroading, waypoints, a quest list and with (on some occasions) action combat". Or, in short, "make BotW, but Pokémon"."

Eww, sounds more like a spinoff than a mainline Pokemon game. It's a JRPG. Could be fun as a spinoff, but I can't imagine that ever being the mainline series. The camera could happen XC2 style though. They've been experimenting heavily with more forward camera positioning even on 3DS, so I could see them making use of the dual sticks to expand on that a bit. Especially with Mario Odyssey's ultra success as the template. However, I'm also of the feeling that the isometric view does lend Pokemon a sort of trademark feel that they may not want to change.

Battle is the game though. Maybe not for you, maybe not for me. Personally I love the exploration as well. But I think for the majority of Pokemon players, battle=Pokemon...that's really the driving glue around which the rest of the game is bolted, and it's a very meticulous system. Pokemon was kind of a bigger Tomagotchi at the start.